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Not true.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/mobileweb/2012/05/24/11-countries-with-the-longest-working-hours_n_1543145.html

Americans do work hard. Much harder than most countries but theyre still not in the top 10.

I live in Korea now and let me just say, the people here literally are machines. They have no lives. Their job is their life

Go to the source

http://stats.oecd.org/Index.aspx?DatasetCode=ANHRS

Just on hours us is outside the top 10.

Though If you read the post and links back to the bbc , you would have seen the disclaimer that the Data is collected by the countries themselves and not always perfectly comparable, some countries do not feature ;)

Hours was not the issue though, it's how hard people have to work, I've worked in Japan, Australia and GB, while in Japan I was really interested to see how long they worked etc, thier job was thier life , but no way would I say they worked harder. Just cause they spend more time in the office it does not mean they are more productive.
 
What are you talking about, these people are live in slaves. Lots of money? They make peanuts. They are poor people that don't have a choice, they are trying to feed their families and perhaps afford their families a better future. Who the hell wants to be a factory slave year round, nobody unless they have a need for it. I encourage you to travel a little more. The world outside the US is allot different than what Americans are accustomed to.

Yes, the world outside the US is "allot" different. How many countries have you lived and worked in? My own count is four so far. What is yours?

And calling people "live in slaves" doesn't make it true. While wages for workers at Foxconn have been published (and are significantly higher than at other employers in China), the cost of living (accomodation in a dorm, and food cost) has also been published, and is about 30% of the pay. That leaves them with plenty of savings.

Tell me, can an eighteen or twenty year old American move to another town and be practically guaranteed employment that allows them to live and make significant savings or send enough money home to "afford their families a better future"? Don't think so. Let's say you live in Buffalo County, South Dakota. Can you just get a train ticket to California, get a job that allows you saving 70% of your salary and send the rest home? Doesn't work.

And what exactly in your opinion makes workers in China "factory slaves"? The fact that they have to work in order to make money? I think your careless use of these words is insulting the ancestors of millions of American citizens.
 
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Yes, the world outside the US is "allot" different. How many countries have you lived and worked in? My own count is four so far. What is yours?

And calling people "live in slaves" doesn't make it true. While wages for workers at Foxconn have been published (and are significantly higher than at other employers in China), the cost of living (accomodation in a dorm, and food cost) has also been published, and is about 30% of the pay. That leaves them with plenty of savings.

Tell me, can an eighteen or twenty year old American move to another town and be practically guaranteed employment that allows them to live and make significant savings or send enough money home to "afford their families a better future"? Don't think so. Let's say you live in Buffalo County, South Dakota. Can you just get a train ticket to California, get a job that allows you saving 70% of your salary and send the rest home? Doesn't work.

And what exactly in your opinion makes workers in China "factory slaves"? The fact that they have to work in order to make money?

How many countries have you lived in with completely different forms of government and society? That makes an enormous difference. Have you lived in China, North Korea or Cuba? I haven't, but I do read enough about different governments and understand that governments in those countries don't work the same as in Europe and US. Europeans should really have an understanding of this being the former Soviet Union was right next door. I know people that lived in the Soviet Union and they are sure gald to be far away from that, including current day Russia.

Oh, and if you missed my point, the countries I mentioned are all Communist.
 
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I'd work for $2 per hour if my rent was only $17 per month.

Still keen if its between $500 - $800?

Times are changing

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2084490/Rolls-Royce-sells-record-3-500-cars-year-China-leads-demand-luxury-marque.html

There has to be some major major overtime happening at $2 per hour to buy a rolls ;)
 
Go to the source

http://stats.oecd.org/Index.aspx?DatasetCode=ANHRS

Just on hours us is outside the top 10.

Though If you read the post and links back to the bbc , you would have seen the disclaimer that the Data is collected by the countries themselves and not always perfectly comparable, some countries do not feature ;)

Hours was not the issue though, it's how hard people have to work, I've worked in Japan, Australia and GB, while in Japan I was really interested to see how long they worked etc, thier job was thier life , but no way would I say they worked harder. Just cause they spend more time in the office it does not mean they are more productive.

Abosulutly, it has been proven many times that the differences in productivity between a 40 hours/week and 60 hours/week is minimal.
 
we could, but the prices of Apples prducts would sky rocket lol

so naive and so dumb, great job on championing greed. $2.16/day is a reasonable wage and standard. Apple can afford USA labor without unions and without putting a dent in there bottom line, they're just too greedy to do that. Apple doesn't offer all its employees health care either. Just greedy and trolls whom embrace greed. Cherish your $50 chinese electronic you paid $500 for, but feel good knowing all Tim Cook's kids can all drive Lamborghinis now.
 
your stupid if you think the workers are trying to pull a quick one. Try defective products and materials coming from the suppliers and Apple saying to Foxxconn deal with it and we're not picking up the bill on our unders.
 
Contracting out the manufacturing of their product will be Apple's undoing. I know that almost all other PC vendors do the same thing, but when you put all of your eggs in a couple of baskets (Quanta, Foxconn, etc.), a strike can have devastating effects on your bottom line, stock price, and market position.

Apple should accept a lower profit and move manufacturing back to the US. That would be an excellent use of its $100B cash pile.
 
so naive and so dumb, great job on championing greed. $2.16/day is a reasonable wage and standard. Apple can afford USA labor without unions and without putting a dent in there bottom line, they're just too greedy to do that. Apple doesn't offer all its employees health care either. Just greedy and trolls whom embrace greed. Cherish your $50 chinese electronic you paid $500 for, but feel good knowing all Tim Cook's kids can all drive Lamborghinis now.

if ur so opposed to that , then why are u even on macrumors TROLLL
 
Don't forget those companies also have guard towers. Sounds more like forced labor camps than places of employment.

LOL

the guard towers are not to prevent people from escaping, it's to prevent people from breaking in, stealing stuff, and to maintain security of the property.

we are talking about millions and millions of dollars of components sitting around
 
These factory workers and/or their QC supervisors are the brainless ones if they think they can churn out damaged iPhones full of nicks and scuffs and get away with it.

Brainless now.... Okay, you have my attention now. How can these workers serve you better?? I'd be outraged if I was told my white iPhone 5 was not made by celestial virgins, in perfect condition just to appease me..... It's all about me me me me me...... Arrggh!

It's just a phone!

Chill mate, you have no relationship with these workers when you order you perfect new phone. It's between you and Apple. If your recieve an iPhone with a micro scuff, apple will give you another one. No need to get a pitchfork and round them up to make sure they do not get away with it.

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LOL

the guard towers are not to prevent people from escaping, it's to prevent people from breaking in, stealing stuff, and to maintain security of the property.

we are talking about millions and millions of dollars of components sitting around

Tim should buy them a few more in his "doubling down on security" measure.

Barbed wire fences and German shepherd guard dogs also add a lot of charm :) Now I got hogans heros in my head..... Shultz must be head of security at Foxconn..... I see nothin..
 
You people are all 1st world dumb-asses. You're labor views, your humanitarian views, your narcissistic entitlement. The media is succeeding I'll give them that. All the work done by great people up to now and you just piss it away by forgetting actual history. Most not all. Apple is to blame, Foxconn is to blame. The people are not to blame. I know it's a hard concept after all the nightly indoctrinations.
 
Times are changing...

Only in parts of China. There are still provinces in Western China where the living standard is not greatly above manual labor subsistance farming. The young adults from there might love the opportunity for any indoor job that pays over $2/hours. Why not offer them one, and give them a chance to better their lifestyle?
 
Tim should buy them a few more in his "doubling down on security" measure.

Barbed wire fences and German shepherd guard dogs also add a lot of charm :) Now I got hogans heros in my head..... Shultz must be head of security at Foxconn..... I see nothin..

China already has a system for this. Labor in China is classified in to two groups based on "where they are born". Those who are born in a City(Class #1) will get all benefits for lifetime and those who are born in rural China(Class #2) never get any benefits for lifetime, irrespective of where they work and what type of work they do.

So Foxconn employs only Class #2. They are not going any where for lifetime.
 
You people are all 1st world dumb-asses. You're labor views, your humanitarian views, your narcissistic entitlement. The media is succeeding I'll give them that. All the work done by great people up to now and you just piss it away by forgetting actual history. Most not all. Apple is to blame, Foxconn is to blame. The people are not to blame. I know it's a hard concept after all the nightly indoctrinations.

Owwww please.... Get over yourself.

On this planet we all screw ourself over. In every country irrespective if it's 1st 2nd or 3rd world someone is talking advantage of someone else. Name one single country where everyone is equal !!! There are none. each country has poverty.

Irony is, your on here posting on a device, that device was made using the cheapest labour possible, so welcome... Your now a contributor to the problem. Someone got screwed over and paid very little so that you could enlighten us with your post.
 
Only in parts of China. There are still provinces in Western China where the living standard is not greatly above manual labor subsistance farming. The young adults from there might love the opportunity for any indoor job that pays over $2/hours. Why not offer them one, and give them a chance to better their lifestyle?

Looking at history, the French having learned the hard way.... You gonna want to improve the lives of the peasants, cause you can only keep them Down for so long , and once they start rebelling, thems heads roll. China is economically exploding , labour costs will go up. It's going to be interesting times for china . Though yes your right, parts are still cheap for now.
 
I'd work for $2 per hour if my rent was only $17 per month.

So you really think such place exists in China? 2$ per hour payment is quite normal in China, but $17-per-month is insanely lower than the average, almost twenty-times less if you live in a small city
 
Owwww please.... Get over yourself.

On this planet we all screw ourself over. In every country irrespective if it's 1st 2nd or 3rd world someone is talking advantage of someone else. Name one single country where everyone is equal !!! There are none. each country has poverty.

Irony is, your on here posting on a device, that device was made using the cheapest labour possible, so welcome... Your now a contributor to the problem. Someone got screwed over and paid very little so that you could enlighten us with your post.

Sideswiped by cynicism. You have been newly elected as the one to "get over". I don't own the device. I try to create as little demand as possible. I think you put way too much importance on threads. These threads exist daily. Mindshare does not impact as much as actual demand. I don't need a chinese labor strike to bitch about minutia on Macforums. Bet you don't either.
 
aluminum is hardly a healthy metal to humans either. aluminum is considered a neurotoxin and aluminum poisoning can result from aluminum getting into the water supply (similar to lead) if not properly recycled and disposed of.

It exists in nature, however humanity's usage is unnatural. Compared to plastic, aluminum is much better for the environment in electronics. Period. It is recyclable, and your example is completely out of touch with reality in that it is not used in piping or other such examples in which natural contamination occurs. Plastic biodegrades in unnatural methods, if at all for some. Would you rather Apple produce plastic devices that end up in our ecosystem for centuries, or that can be recycled at the cost of more pollution? I'd rather a natural metal that can be easily melded and reused.

No one is licking their electronics. Apple is mass producing some of the most popular consumer devices to date with materials that are far better than the plastics you claim superior. Additionally, most Apple devices are not thrown away; most are resold or recycled due to their high resale value, etc. I'd rather that than more [plastic] e-waste in our oceans and lands. I've been to many area's in which people literally walk beaches covered in plastic trash, old phone's, computer parts, wires - many in these impoverished third world nations in which we dispose of our refuse (out of sight, out of mind - grease the system and keep people spending without realizing the collective toll our capitalistic system has on the world) scour their beaches in order to reuse/sell our disposed electronics. For us it may be junk, for them it's poisonous cash that may buy them something to eat if sold to the right person without realizing how toxic it is. You'd be surprised how terrible our first world lives effect the planet and the other creatures we share it with, all because we want to keep up with the Joneses.
 
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Truth is, unions barely represent the intentions of the workers and are often political machines. They often act in contradiction of the wishes of the members and undermine the workers chances of success by destroying said industry through unrealistic demands.

Sadly true these days, but it wasn't *always* true. (Unless you consider less than 80-hour work weeks in safe conditions for a living wage 'unrealistic demands'.)

Currently school teachers are shooting themselves in the foot -- there's been local demands for higher wages amid one of the tightest fiscal budgets yet for school districts. Sounds perfectly logical.

Over the past 20 years, teaching wages have *fallen* in comparison to inflation and other cost-of-living increases. Asking for higher wages now is simply asking to be put back on the same (already underpaid) footing they were on 20 years ago.

Hell, they could simply stop buying necessary school supplies for poor students out of their own money and require that the *school* do it. That would go a long way toward fixing things, but the schools don't have the budgets to do it, so you'd just end up with students who cant afford school supplies trying to make do without.

Going through high school, my next door neighbor was a teacher. She spent, on average, $4000 of her own money each semester to make sure all her students had the supplies they needed, even if their parents couldn't afford them. (And I went to school in a reasonably well-off school district.)

You don't need unions to do that.

...

You need not look any further than the US steel industry, which collapsed long before China started dumping. If the company you work for can't compete, you're out of a job. Which would you rather have?

...

Minor labor issues can be fixed by passing labor laws. Minimum wage. Mandatory food/bathroom breaks. Restricted work hours for minors, overtime regulations for adults. It's not rocket science. You don't some quasi political organization "acting in your best interests".

Let me ask you. Who do you think pushed for all those labor laws we have? I'll give you a hint. It wasn't the businesses back in the day. It was the Unions. That's how they started becoming big political machines. Because it was *necessary* back then in order to get the protections the workers needed and deserved.

Unfortunately, almost nobody willingly gives up power once it's been obtained (especially when they know/believe they were in the right when they claimed that power, which unions were). Unions are *largely* outdated in the modern world, but not completely. If they were to disappear today, you'd find bills in Congress to roll back the protections they fought for tomorrow.

Then again, these Chinese workers *already* have at least one protection workers in the US don't. They have a legally mandated maximum work week. We only have a legally mandated point at which we must be paid time-and-a-half for extra work (if you're not 'exempt'). Mind you, statistically both sets of laws are followed about as rigorously as one another. (Not very.)

Also for the $2/hr comment -- keep in mind that the cost of living over there is quite varied by region and is nothing like here. Foxconn workers do far better wage wise than some other workers in China.

Yep. After cost-of-living expenses are deducted from pay, these workers are making roughly the equivalent (comparing cost of goods and services) to factory workers in the US making $15+/hour.

That said, striking to get needed training that they should have been given originally is a *good* idea.

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You know something is really wrong when you have to put suicide nets up. What other manufacturer has suicide nets up?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h1_XAuJ8qCc

Yep. So we should be seeing more pressure on the *other* companies which use Foxconn to produce their products. (After all, most of the suicides, attempts or threats have been by workers *not* producing Apple products.) :rolleyes:

Then again, the suicide rates at Foxconn are lower than the rates in China as a whole, lower than the rates in similar areas of China, and lower than the rates in the US. You don't see US companies putting up suicide nets, so maybe they don't care as much about their workers? :eek:

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So you really think such place exists in China? 2$ per hour payment is quite normal in China, but $17-per-month is insanely lower than the average, almost twenty-times less if you live in a small city

True, but that's apparently what the on-campus dorms go for. There nothing special (about on par with some college dorms I've seen), but they're damned cheap for a worker who doesn't have a family (as many don't).

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Contracting out the manufacturing of their product will be Apple's undoing. I know that almost all other PC vendors do the same thing, but when you put all of your eggs in a couple of baskets (Quanta, Foxconn, etc.), a strike can have devastating effects on your bottom line, stock price, and market position.

Apple should accept a lower profit and move manufacturing back to the US. That would be an excellent use of its $100B cash pile.

I'd love to see Apple (and other US companies) bring manufacturing jobs back to the US. Unfortunately, it would cost Apple *several* hundred billion and still take about 7-10 years to do it at this point. We've been shipping jobs overseas for so long that we simply don't have the facilities, infrastructure, or skilled labor pool necessary to do it quickly.
 
You people are all 1st world dumb-asses. You're labor views, your humanitarian views, your narcissistic entitlement. The media is succeeding I'll give them that. All the work done by great people up to now and you just piss it away by forgetting actual history. Most not all. Apple is to blame, Foxconn is to blame. The people are not to blame. I know it's a hard concept after all the nightly indoctrinations.

In your haste to brush up on your history, you appear to have missed your English lessons.

It appears to have affected your comprehension of history.

That's largely what we've done with manufacturing in the US and all you hear about is China taking out jobs (IE manufacturing output in the US is at a near all time high but is employing fewer people)....

Anyways I've been suspect that a lot of these supposed scratches were purposely put by employees as a form of protest.

Or simple carelessness; if I got paid an unlivable wage, I promise you I wouldn't give two flying ****s about whether or not I did a good job.

If my iPhone arrives scratched, I still won't blame them.
 
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