Foxconn Workers Reportedly Strike over iPhone 5 Quality Control Demands

[samcraig]

There has been data. The US doesn't have the facilities required, nor the workforce that would be necessary to move all the manufacturing here. This has been gone over so many times...

There's an assumption there that I wasn't making. I never assumed ALL of manufacturing would be done here. Nor ALL of assembly. There could easily be a hybrid approach.

It is scary that you don't. Why would it be Apple fault. FOXCONN employees are not Apple employees. Hence why the post starts with FOXCONN employees

These are Apple products. Apple has vendor responsibilities. Apple is also dictating the QA. To discount Apple as having zero responsibility here is extremely passive.

 

[Medic311]

Yes, and the price of that Iphone will double.

congratulations, you have been lobbied.

let me ask you this, why would the selling price of the iPhone double? the profit margin on the base model iPhone 5 is 72%. i'm not sure how long it takes to assemble an iPhone 5, but if you're saying that using US labor would cut the profit margin in half and would require Apple to double the selling price, that means their profit margin would still be 36%. that's still significantly higher than the rest of the industry. a company can thrive on 36%, very well actually. apple has so much cash on hand it has no idea what the hell to do with it all. they are expanding their data centers, yes...but that is a just a trivial slice of the pie so to speak. look, i'm not blaming apple for their profit margin...i'm just saying it doesn't need 72% to be #1

apple has pushed chinese labor to the brink, and now we are seeing the same kind of swing back as the US saw in the 1920's. they are humans and they can only be pushed so far - everyone has a breaking point and it looks like the Foxconn workers have reached it. can you blame them?

 

[bazinga!!]

Given the profit that Apple is making on the iPhone, they could and should set an example and make sure that the Foxconn workers get paid more. It is easy to judge the Chinese people when you're living in the US or Europe, but they are PEOPLE JUST LIKE US. I wonder how many people here want to actually live in a factory and work 14 hours/day.

 

[iGrip]

Also for the $2/hr comment -- keep in mind that the cost of living over there is quite varied by region and is nothing like here.

Yeah - How much does housing cost when there's no electrical or plumbing and the floors are just dirt? And food costs - mouldy rice is cheap, cheap, cheap!

Their cost of living is so low, they don't know how lucky they really are!

 

[Aspasia]

From a NYT article:

"A typical Foxconn employee on the assembly line makes anywhere from 1,500 renminbi to 2,200 renminbi a month, based on 160 hours of work. At that salary, the wage ranges between $1.50 and $2.20 an hour, based on the exchange rate of 6.3 renminbi to the dollar."

However, it also mentions that most employees work in excess of 36hs in overtime, and work 6 day weeks.

Article

From CNN: "U.S. misses full truth on China factory workers."

http://www.cnn.com/2012/09/30/opinion/chang-chinese-factory-workers/index.html

 

[MacManTexas56]

I know that it may be impossible given the U.S. Unions, the pay Apple would have to shell out, and the fact that these jobs are already established (and in some cases, necessary) overseas, but I will always want one thing:

Bring the jobs back to the U.S.A.

people in the USA are too damn lazy. They won't do a job like that....

 

[darkplanets]

Thanks Amoda for the article.

As I sit her reading and typing this on my iphone5 I feel disgusted. This amounts to modern day slavery. And with my purchase I am feeding it. I love all the apple products I own but if things don't change I am sure I can live with out a new iPhone every year. We need to think about the "people" who are making these products.

Oh please. It's not modern day slavery. There's two important things to note:
1) They aren't forced to work there
2) People actually fight for and want these jobs

one guy was invited to a german show just recently and i cant recall exactly but he mentioned that the shift starts at 5am and that they r working overtime by like 5 hours each day because there r only 2 shifts and make about 30 Euro (per months i think)

they work in groups of like 10 people plus 2 guys on their back watching them closely.

they sleep in rooms of up to 12 people in stock beds and its work sleep work basically

they r like henns ...

See what I just said above. Without that being adjusted to local costs, wages are irrelevant. Everyone's looking at these numbers with their local costs which is quite different than China as a whole or sub regions therein. Everything in context.

Also, they want to work there. No ones forcing them to. The thing is, most live there because it's cheaper and easier.

 

[tigres]

Yes, and the price of that Iphone will double.

Not if they lower the profits, and get realistic.
I know, gluttony is what we are all about.

 

[robanga]

Once again, unions and workers shooting themselves in the foot... I'm not saying they should just put up with it, but strike action will only make the use of assembly machinery financially more attractive and thus put hundreds out of work as they'll need far fewer numbers to maintain the machines... It's happened throughout history, car industry, cotton industry, etc, etc, etc...

Until the underfed masses forcibly take the power from the owners of the machines that too has happened time and time again in history, unions are a relatively passive reaction to all of that.

 

[sweetbrat]

Yeah - How much does housing cost when there's no electrical or plumbing and the floors are just dirt? And food costs - mouldy rice is cheap, cheap, cheap!

Their cost of living is so low, they don't know how lucky they really are!

I'm curious to know where you got the information about no electrical or plumbing, dirt floors and moldy rice. Source please?

 

[seven2k7]

Enjoy your blood phones!

 

[entatlrg]

I wonder if Apple could spare any of their profit margin per device to hire and train more workers properly.

Could the world survive waiting a few more days for their iPhones if the workers were given time off to celebrate their national holiday?

 

[ixodes]

is some of the criticism because of more exposure than ever before?

I think we all know the answer....

 

[jamesnajera]

The first iPhone 5 I received had 2 small scuffs on the back and dead pixels. I made a appointment at a Apple store and they replaced it. The new one (second one) had a tiny scuff and no dead pixels. I asked if I could have another one because the second one has the scuff. The genius and I opened a 3rd box up and there was a huge scuff at the bottom right under the home button. I took the second iPhone 5, because the Apple genius could not keep opening iPhone 5s for me. I wonder how many we would have gone through that day to find a perfect iPhone 5. The aluminum is way more delicate than the steel on the iPhone 4/4S. This also reminds of the rumors that Apple was making a black Macbook Air, but the Black would scratch off to easily so they nixed it.

 

[robanga]

I'm curious to know where you got the information about no electrical or plumbing, dirt floors and moldy rice. Source please?

Having spent a fair amount of time over there - i can say i do not recall seeing a dirt floor although out in the country they probably exist, i do recall seeing electricity in even the poorest neighborhoods and i doubt their rice is moldy very often. They maybe can not afford a huge variety in diet but it mostly is pretty safe food.

China has homeless people just like us.

 

[snberk103]

You'd think with all the innovation that goes into smartphones these days, the manufacturing process could be a tad more automated.

I mean really, why do we still need people assembling these things?

...

Because people are far more flexible. Foxconn (with people assembling) can retool the factory in a matter of days to deal with a change in a part. With a new model, once the engineers have designed the assembly process you can start assembling on a massive scale almost immediately. You train a initial cadre of workers, who in turn train a cadre, who then assemble and train the remaining untrained workers.

The human ability to learn, to adapt, and to do do a multitude of tasks is often underestimated.

While you could set up a robotic line to assemble iPhones, and while it would work very well, it isn't easy to change the assembly. Parts to be put in have to precisely placed for the robot to grasp. The body of the unit has to be precisely placed. Then the unit needs to be moved to the next spot, precisely. Change any of these factors, and the robots can have a hard time coping.

A big change, like an upgraded iPhone model, means changing the robots, probably. And certainly changing how the parts move around and how the units gets moved from station to station. It just takes a lot longer to retool a robotic line. Plus, you can't easily move robots from the iDevice 5 line to the iDevice 5S line when demand spikes unexpectedly.

That was Steve Jobs' contention, in his bio. It wasn't so much the price that made Foxconn the prime bidder, but their flexibility. They could change assembly lines around in a matter of days, if not hours to meet market demands.

Does anyone actually know what Foxconn workers get paid and how many hours they work?

Just Google it....it's out there and well known and public knowledge. Foxconn workers get paid higher than average wages... which is why there is inevitably lines around the block to get into Foxconn when they are hiring.

If the workers are striking, then they are very unhappy about the conditions. But this is a good thing. The company pushed hard, the workers said no, the'll settle somewhere in between. Sounds like the system is working well. The workers have considerable power here because Foxconn is under immense pressure by Apple to fulfil their contractual obligations. I predict it'll be settled in a day or two.

Cancelling the Autumn Lunar Holidays for their workers? Yikes! I'm an Imperialist Running Dog Round Eye, and even I know that if you're going to do that you'd better be prepared to pay lots of overtime. Lots and Lots of Overtime. Sounds like Foxconn tried to be cheap.

 

[Rezo201]

Quality control in China is lacking in a lot of areas, not just iPhones. Sneakers these days are made like crap, especially Jordan's compared to a few years ago. Glue all over them, stitching uneven, creased leather, and so on. Nike use to produce all their shoes in Taiwan. I have noticed some other things that recently started being produced in China are lacking what they use to be also. I think it's a much larger issue than just this factory.

 

[Mr. Retrofire]

Bring the jobs back overseas.

In addition to demanding that workers work during the holiday, Foxconn raised overly strict demands on product quality without providing worker training for the corresponding skills. This led to workers turning out products that did not meet standards and ultimately put a tremendous amount of pressure on workers.

This is not only a chinese problem. The same happens from time to time in the EU and the U.S. Ask the unions.

For example @ PANTEX:
http://amarillo.com/stories/2005/05/18/new_1949381.shtml

According to government reports, Pantex workers found a crack in a high-explosive charge Jan. 8, 2004, while dismantling a W-56 warhead, a nuclear weapon normally carried on a Minuteman intercontinental ballistic missile. The workers taped the high-explosive crack and placed the explosives charge in a safe and stable position. On Jan. 13, 2004, workers began another operation to remove the cracked high explosives, but the cracks expanded and technicians again had to stop work.

Citing a series of "breakdowns" in Pantex procedures, DOE investigators said the contractor failed to conduct a proper safety review before removing the cracked high-explosive charge, failed to correct a two-year-old tooling problem and failed to give workers proper instructions to safely remove the cracked high explosive.

 

[darkplanets]

Yeah - How much does housing cost when there's no electrical or plumbing and the floors are just dirt? And food costs - mouldy rice is cheap, cheap, cheap!

Their cost of living is so low, they don't know how lucky they really are!

Sensationalist, much? Have you ever been to China? Some nationals would be quite offended by your generalizations of the country. From what I remember, their work quarters don't qualify as any of the above, and neither do the local towns. Furthermore, the company housing is remnants of the Iron Ricebowl -- people want to live there because its cheap. The cost of living is China is much lower than the US, so long as you're not consuming western "imports" (brands).

 

[td1439]

This thread is hilarious. We wonder why Americans are perceived as a bunch of entitled asshats by the rest of the world.

"Those peons should be thankful for the chance to work like that! Now, dammit, Hop Sing, chop chop with my phone! I have people to impress!"

 

[sweetbrat]

Having spent a fair amount of time over there - i can say i do not recall seeing a dirt floor although out in the country they probably exist, i do recall seeing electricity in even the poorest neighborhoods and i doubt their rice is moldy very often. They maybe can not afford a huge variety in diet but it mostly is pretty safe food.

China has homeless people just like us.

Sorry, perhaps I misread. I thought they were saying those were the conditions of the workers at Foxconn. I understand that there are areas with very low cost of living and poor conditions. We have plenty of that here in the U.S. as well.

 

[Sony311]

<shake head to original quote>

You're joking right? Cause bringing in scabs will only make the quality even worse. Read the underlying issues:

1. Improper Equipment
2. Inadequate training to fulfill their goals
3. Holidays taken away for the long weekend

I say they have a good reason to strike

Bring in the scabs!

 

[Medic311]

There has been data. The US doesn't have the facilities required, nor the workforce that would be necessary to move all the manufacturing here. This has been gone over so many times...

guess what...when the Europeans sailed to North America, there were no facilities required to manufacture anything. they built the facilities needed.

Apple needed facilities to run iCloud. no data center existed that would meet their needs. they built the data centers from scratch. Apple needed new engineers to re-design the port (Lightning port)...they hired and trained them.

if Apple wanted to build a manufacturing facility in the US, it could easily do so and train a workforce to manufacture products. it could do this ten times over. it's not about capability, it's about profit margin. Apple's profit margin for it's base model iPhone 5 is 72%. every new product that Apple releases raises the profit bar that analysts look at every quarter. any decrease in that bar results in knee-jerk reaction from investors who claim Apple's growth is slowing down (despite record sales).

in Apple's defense, there doesn't exist a tax-friendly law that allows a corporation to bring its cash back on-shore without first being taxed a re-patriation tax. with the amount of cash that they have off-shore, it would be smart if congress would change the law such that if the money being brought back into the country is being directly used for job creation and manufacturing investment, that it would not be taxed at all. this fact is one of the holdups for Apple, as they would be slapped with a 50% tax instantly. no one and no company would ever considering doing that

 

[JayLenochiniMac]

we have to see what is going on, do not judge them quickly...

the rumor was the Guards beating the workers. you and I we would work in that scenario

really there is something going on.

We should be concerned about the people beaten by the guard than the few phones beaten by few culprit workers.

Then the right thing to do would be to strike in response to that, not continue to work and screw us by allowing those obviously damaged iPhones full of nicks and scuffs to slip past QC. Either do your job right or find another job.

 

[robanga]

Sorry, perhaps I misread. I thought they were saying those were the conditions of the workers at Foxconn. I understand that there are areas with very low cost of living and poor conditions. We have plenty of that here in the U.S. as well.

No i was just backing up what you said. The assertion that they are living in slave like conditions is not accurate.