France Suing Apple and Google for Taking Advantage of Developers With 'Abusive Commercial Practices'

Discussion in 'iOS Blog Discussion' started by MacRumors, Mar 14, 2018.

  1. MacRumors macrumors bot

    MacRumors

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    French finance minister Bruno Le Maire today announced that the country will be taking legal action against Apple and Google for "abusive commercial practices." Specifically, Le Maire said that the tech companies are taking advantage of French developers with these practices and that the fines from such a legal action could be in the "millions of euros" (via Bloomberg and Reuters).

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    Speaking on RTL radio, Le Maire said that he has recently become aware of practices performed by Apple and Google, where the companies "unilaterally" impose their prices and tweak other contractural terms with app developers to their liking. After discovering this, Le Maire led the ministry's fraud office into an investigation and found that between 2015 and 2017 there were "significant imbalances" in the relationships between Apple/Google and developers who sold apps on their stores.
    Le Maire went on to state that despite their power, Apple and Google "should not be able to treat" French startups and developers "the way they currently do." The legal action will take place in the Paris commercial court.

    Le Maire also mentioned that he expects the European Union to officially close the tax loopholes benefiting Apple and other tech companies -- Google, Facebook, Amazon, etc. -- by the start of 2019.

    The loopholes are said to have allowed Apple to "minimize taxes and grab market share" at the expense of Europe-based companies. France's crackdown on these loopholes accelerated during a meeting of European Union officials last September, which now appears to be on track to end by early next year.

    Article Link: France Suing Apple and Google for Taking Advantage of Developers With 'Abusive Commercial Practices'
     
  2. RightMACatU macrumors 65816

    RightMACatU

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  3. chrono1081 macrumors 604

    chrono1081

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    #3
    I'd love to see examples of what Le Maire is talking about. From this post alone it sounds pretty nonsensical.
     
  4. BvizioN macrumors 601

    BvizioN

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    Oh ... here we go, France again. These guys must really hate technology.
     
  5. Janschi macrumors member

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    #5
    I mean they kind of have a point,
    but Germany and France are very difficult with technology and being open for new. Sooo.
     
  6. Red Oak macrumors regular

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    #6
    What in good god is he taking about? Devs set their own prices

    Also, devs do not ‘sell’ to Google or Apple. They sell to consumers
     
  7. EVGabe macrumors newbie

    EVGabe

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    #7
    In other news, France doesn’t know what the hell it’s talking about.
     
  8. Glmnet1 macrumors 6502a

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    How could he just learn how it works? It's been like that for 10 years now!

    Apple built the platform, it only makes sense they can make the rules and charge whatever they want. If devs are not happy about it they can stop developing on a platform anytime they want.
     
  9. LovingTeddy macrumors 65816

    LovingTeddy

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    Well...Yeah.... At least developers can sell their application in alternative channel with Android. I don't see how they can sue Google. Apple on other hand, cab you sell on alternative channel? No... Because Apple need the 30% cut.
     
  10. Glideslope, Mar 14, 2018
    Last edited: Mar 14, 2018

    Glideslope macrumors 601

    Glideslope

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    #10
    "Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups." EU
     
  11. Glmnet1 macrumors 6502a

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    Yes you can sell on alternative channels: Google's app store, Windows apps, web apps etc. But devs won't stop developing iOS apps because it's a profitable market, even with the 30% cut.

    It's just like if you want to sell a product you made at Walmart, or any other brick and mortar store, they are going to ask for money on each item you sell. If you don't like it well you have to figure out another way to sell your product.
     
  12. Ramchi macrumors 6502

    Ramchi

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    Europin sueing spree! They need more attorneys than techies! Innovation through legislation and legal action!
     
  13. Amazing Iceman macrumors 68040

    Amazing Iceman

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    'Nerver' !!!

    Nerver - "Dumber than a bullet" find it on iTunes
     
  14. deanthedev macrumors 65816

    deanthedev

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    This hypocrisy again?

    Android User 5 Years Ago: "I like Android because it's open and I can get Apps from Google Play or any 3rd party store I wish."
    Security Researcher: "But what about all the malware that is prevalent in 3rd party stores?"
    Android User Today: "Just stick to Google Play and you won't have any issues. Everyone knows not to trust 3rd party App stores."
     
  15. Amazing Iceman macrumors 68040

    Amazing Iceman

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    #15
    And what about software piracy?
     
  16. TrueBlou macrumors demi-god

    TrueBlou

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    #16
    They noticed it in 2015? Weren’t they paying attention between 2008 - 2015?
    Or did the backhanders stop around 2015 :D

    Apple’s pricing and fees haven’t changed drastically so since the AppStore launched. There’s been a tweak here and there but nothing I’m complaining about.

    I know there’s going to be whinging and moaning nonetheless. But I don’t mind giving Apple a 30% cut and I don’t object to their pricing structure.

    Not when they’re giving me access to over a billion iOS devices to peddle my wares on

    Well, several hundred million when you rule out really old versions. But the vast majority of active iOS devices can still be targeted even with the latest developer tools.

    That’s not to say I’d complain if they scrapped the fixed pricing tiers and allowed the freedom to set any price you like. But no biggie in my book.

    I look at Apple’s 30% cut this way, having owned retail stores in the past, I know the kind of margins made on the products sold.
    I assure you when we had our games shops our margins on software sales were a lot more than 30%.
    As far as I’m concerned Apple is simply taking on the role of the old brick and mortar stores and in that respect, taking only 30% is reasonable to me.

    Also, why hasn’t he bothered mentioning Amazon’s App Store? Their policies are not really any different from the rest. Or for that matter, Sony, Microsoft, Nintendo who all have generally larger margins on non-sale items.

    You can’t pick a fight with one or two companies and just ignore the rest because it suits you.


    Maybe I’m just grumpy because I’ve not slept and had far too much medication. Or maybe I just like a dam good moan from time to time :p
     
  17. deanthedev macrumors 65816

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    #17
    Walmart is the perfect example (you beat me to it). I'd love to see companies try and get shelf space in Walmart without having to offer their goods at wholesale and allowing Walmart to make a profit (markup) on them.

    With The App Store being the largest and most profitable App store in the world, it's apt to compare them to Walmart. Google Play, OTOH, should be taking less of a cut since they're a smaller, and less profitable store.
     
  18. Amazing Iceman macrumors 68040

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    Just imagine how much money, time and other resources would be needed to host, promote and distribute your app if you had to do it all. 30% is a fair take for all the work done in the background by Apple.
     
  19. TrueBlou macrumors demi-god

    TrueBlou

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    #19
    Software piracy on iOS is pretty rife too. I remember launching a game a few years back and in the first week there were many, many thousands more people playing it than I had sales. Go figure.

    I don’t really give a rats bahookie about piracy though if I’m honest. The people who pirate are generally significantly less likely to pay for the product anyway. They’ll either get it for free, or in most cases, just won’t get it.
     
  20. SteveJobs2.0 macrumors 6502a

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    The real I ssue is not the pricing and fee structure! The issue is that Apple and Google can unilaterally breach the agreed-upon contracts thereby taking other developers’ code and then change the contracts to make the developers drop out of the App Store while Apple and Google keep the code. This allows Apple and Google to keep innovative code for themselves without directly buying the smal developer or licensing from them.
     
  21. TrueBlou, Mar 14, 2018
    Last edited: Mar 14, 2018

    TrueBlou macrumors demi-god

    TrueBlou

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    #21

    I honestly don’t think I could be bothered if I had to do it all. Developing and trying to promote apps is hard enough as it is. It eats up your life like nothing else you can imagine.

    That’s why I’m more than happy to give Apple their cut. For the services they provide it’s a bit of a bargain.
    --- Post Merged, Mar 14, 2018 ---
    No they don’t. Copyright still stands even on the AppStore. Apple may “be inspired” by a developers product, but they can’t just half inch the code from your app. They either have to buy it, or develop it themselves. They don’t even get sent the complete source code from your app when you submit it. They could reverse engineer it but again, copyright prohibits this from taking place.
     
  22. deanthedev macrumors 65816

    deanthedev

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    Where on Earth did you get this idea from? It's complete bull.
     
  23. JRobinsonJr macrumors 6502

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    #23
    Is he referring to the PRICING structure (which, as many have noted, hasn't fundamentally changed in years) or is he referring more to the TECHNOLOGY side of things... requiring developers to keep their software updated, use new/improved API's, convert to 64-bit, etc.?

    Regardless, while I don't agree with but understand some of the recents EU initiatives (e.g. going after Ireland taxes)... but this makes zero sense... at least as written. Hopefully this will get quickly clarified I we can stop SMH.
     
  24. 69Mustang macrumors 603

    69Mustang

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    Actually you can do that. Actually it's the way to do it. It's the only way it's ever been done. No one tries to pick a fight with everyone at the same time. Not saying the French have any merit in their fight. They don't. I'm just saying your "you can't pick a fight with one or two..." is wrong.
     
  25. TrueBlou, Mar 14, 2018
    Last edited: Mar 14, 2018

    TrueBlou macrumors demi-god

    TrueBlou

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    #25
    Perhaps I worded it badly, I was more suggesting that to single out any company for a practice that is effectively industry standard is biased to say the least. After all have you noticed how they always seem to go after the ones with the deepest pockets.

    I’m a firm believer that if you’re going to do these sorts of things, you should be doing it in a method that applies to the entire industry. Not just those you stand to make the most money from. Tarry fingered gypo’s. It just reeks of them wanting to line their pockets.... No surprises there :p
     

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