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Freezing iMac Issue Due to Hardware?

Sorry to jump into that discussion but I have to correct some misconceptions.

Let's get the facts straights.

An aluminium case, altough thinner, will dissipate more heat then a plastic enclosure.

I'm mechanical team leader in an Autonomous Underwater Vehicule (AUV) competition. We are building our main hull out of folded and welded aluminum sheetmetal. We can keep the computer running in this tiny hull completely colsed all day long under the californian sun if we want and we almost never get any thermal shutdown. The heat generated by our onboard PC (pentium M 1,8ghz running at close to 100% under normal conditions) and our onboard electronics gets the heat at about 75 celsius within the hull. We have absolutely no air coming in our out of the hull and all the heat gets out due to thermal dissipation through the aluminum hull. The only ventilation we have comes from the processor fan and another PC fan hooked above the PC to move the air around within the hull.

Now, considering that Apple's computers have vents to get air in and out and that the aluminum enclosure acts as an heatsink, under the same load and with the same material configuration then previous generation Imac they should run cooler.

This pictures shows the inside of the main hull (there is an electronic card missing, a firewire hub and a bunck of extra cables running around in there that were not there yet when this picture was taken)

http://sonia.etsmtl.ca/private/webPrive/photoalbum/2007/Sub 2007/P6010110.jpg
 
LogicalVue said:
Someone above asked a good question, I think: "Has anyone seen this freezing problem in BootCamp"?

After all, if it is a hardware problem it should occur in Windows as well.
Click to expand...

Yes, i've had the freeze in Windows XP via Bootcamp. However, that still does not prove it is a hardware fault.

"But!!" Hear me out.. Who do you think made the graphics drivers for Windows/Bootcamp? Thats right.. ATI & Apple, just like the ones in OS X. So the drivers could likely have exactly the same bug in.

Sure, it could be a hardware fault, but im thinking that in most cases, it isn't.
 
So is it assumed any new iMacs purchased now will not have the defects/problems? I am thinking of buying an iMac but don't want to if they haven't fixed the issue.
 
Luap said:
Yes, i've had the freeze in Windows XP via Bootcamp. However, that still does not prove it is a hardware fault.

"But!!" Hear me out.. Who do you think made the graphics drivers for Windows/Bootcamp? Thats right.. ATI & Apple, just like the ones in OS X. So the drivers could likely have exactly the same bug in.

Sure, it could be a hardware fault, but im thinking that in most cases, it isn't.
Click to expand...

Mine still freezes even using the generic 7.10 Catalyst drivers. If it were just the drivers, every HD2600 would lock up.

iGen said:
So is it assumed any new iMacs purchased now will not have the defects/problems? I am thinking of buying an iMac but don't want to if they haven't fixed the issue.
Click to expand...

People have reported that ones purchased as recently as a few days ago are still freezing.
 
SeaFox said:
The display itself is larger, but the rest of the components aren't. Just because the display is using much more power doesn't mean the heat output is proportionally higher. Remember that we're talking about an LCD screen, too. They don't generate nearly as much heat as CRT displays do. The motherboard and graphics card are the same physical dimensions. This is basic computer building, you'll get better airflow in a larger case because everything isn't cramped in such a small space. Hence heat wont be such an issue.

Remember about past cooling issues in 15" Powerbooks, but the 17" monsters weren't having as many issues. Many sites pointed out exactly what I'm saying, the 17"ers didn't have as much trouble because the components were not as cramped inside as in the 15" models.
Click to expand...

As a person who has a new 24" and 20" aluminum iMacs, I can say that the larger screen puts out far more heat than the 20" model. Like I said in my post, the temps aren't really that hot but the top of the case (aluminum) is very hot. To me, its the screen putting out the extra heat, because the 20" Aluminum iMac in the same household doesn't put out anywhere near the heat. Yes, the CPU doesn't run the same speed, but then again, the CPU or GPU isn't putting out very much heat on either iMac. So that basically leaves the screen putting out the excess heat on the 24" model.
 
I like...

SeaFox said:
I like how this guy's solution to a problem in an Apple product is to buy more Apple products.
Click to expand...

...how this guy takes my statement out of context. Note I did NOT say "Buy more Apple products" I said, and he quoted, "...buy Leopard or wait for a Tiger update..." Every option I suggested other than Leopard is free.
 
I called Applecare today and they walked me through the:

Verify & Repair disk off installer disk.

Reboot and run hardware test.

Reboot and reset PRAM.

Here's your case #. Call us if it still happens.

Guess I'll wait to see if I get anymore freezes.
 
DaveSM said:
Sorry to jump into that discussion but I have to correct some misconceptions.

Let's get the facts straights.

An aluminium case, altough thinner, will dissipate more heat then a plastic enclosure.

I'm mechanical team leader in an Autonomous Underwater Vehicule (AUV) competition. We are building our main hull out of folded and welded aluminum sheetmetal. We can keep the computer running in this tiny hull completely colsed all day long under the californian sun if we want and we almost never get any thermal shutdown. The heat generated by our onboard PC (pentium M 1,8ghz running at close to 100% under normal conditions) and our onboard electronics gets the heat at about 75 celsius within the hull. We have absolutely no air coming in our out of the hull and all the heat gets out due to thermal dissipation through the aluminum hull. The only ventilation we have comes from the processor fan and another PC fan hooked above the PC to move the air around within the hull.

Now, considering that Apple's computers have vents to get air in and out and that the aluminum enclosure acts as an heatsink, under the same load and with the same material configuration then previous generation Imac they should run cooler.

This pictures shows the inside of the main hull (there is an electronic card missing, a firewire hub and a bunck of extra cables running around in there that were not there yet when this picture was taken)

http://sonia.etsmtl.ca/private/webPrive/photoalbum/2007/Sub 2007/P6010110.jpg
Click to expand...

I forgot to add that we plan to switch to an Intel C2D clocked at 1,5ghz this year and we don't foresee any major heat issues.
 
Mac Pro plus Nvidia no problems so far

I have a Mac Pro with 3 WD drives, 6 gigs of ran and the cheaper Nvidia and have had no problems thus far with heat and 10.5. I almost paid $230 more for the X1900 so I could rotate my screen but saved my money and just kept the standard card. Later an update allowed rotation with Nvidia. My Mac Pro is quiet but if you go over to Apple and the x1900 rankings and reviews there are lots of complaints about the x1900 almost immediately after the card came out and little response from Apple.

All I can say is that my Mac Pro with Nvidia has had no problems so far. My wife has had the aluminum 20" iMac for a month and no problems with 10.5 but after reading this thread I will keep a watch. If there are problems I am going to print out some of these posts in case the Apple support claims that mine is the first instance of this problem. Perhaps those guys should make it a point to visit here.



tribulation said:
VERY PROMINENT!! i'd call it more like UNUSABLE
mac pro & x1900 is messed up on leopard big time
part of my MEGABUGS post yesterday. 6 of my friends and me have the mac pros with x1900 and since upgrading to leopard see lines and junk drawn all over the screen that was never there in tiger
another :apple: rush job.like i said before this bug comes up on 7/7 mac pros with the :apple: included radeon x1900 so i find it hard to believe that :apple: didnt notice this megabug before releasing it to us and making us pay for a broken system
and like i said before a new os is bound to have some bugs but the huge ones in leopard that make it unusable for many people with such glaring bugs there is no excuse
Click to expand...
 
roland.g said:
I called Applecare today and they walked me through the:

Verify & Repair disk off installer disk.

Reboot and run hardware test.

Reboot and reset PRAM.

Here's your case #. Call us if it still happens.

Guess I'll wait to see if I get anymore freezes.
Click to expand...


you will


i got my card replaced today and ran leopard for a hour with not 1 freeze. i am happy to finally have a machine now that does not freeze. if you have applecare, ask if they can send a technician out to your house, they won't offer this option unless you ask and they are obligated to do this if there is a tech within 50 miles of where you live.
 
Not just iMacs

mixel said:
Funny, I didnt realise the freezes were UI hangs with the mouse-pointer still moving. XD

My G5 started doing this *occasionally* since the leopard upgrade, and I'm using a flashed ATI 9800 Pro.. Haha. It doesn't happen when graphically intense things are happening though so I'm assuming its completely unrelated.. Maybe ATI drivers do need more work, or maybe mine is USB related (all my issues in the past have been).. Interesting.
Click to expand...

Thank you! finally someone else with a non iMac speaking up, I have the same ATI card in my G5 but I had this problem before my Leopard upgrade.
 
I've had my iMac since 10/7
updated to Leopard a few days ago

and then I noticed the first and only freeze

it happened while trying out the new iTunes visualizations in full screen mode.

it hasn't happened again though
so I'm not sure what to do

my comp seems fine
but it did have that one freeze and I'm paranoid that it'll start happening
 
House call

pavelbure said:
you will


i got my card replaced today and ran leopard for a hour with not 1 freeze. i am happy to finally have a machine now that does not freeze. if you have applecare, ask if they can send a technician out to your house, they won't offer this option unless you ask and they are obligated to do this if there is a tech within 50 miles of where you live.
Click to expand...

This is really great! What kind of graphics card did you wind up getting? The house call is best, because it gets done then and there - no turn around time - instant results......
 
Ati

MacinDoc said:
If true, this is really bad news for Apple. It could result in a massive recall.
Click to expand...

If it does turn out that ATI delivered faulty graphics cards, I would imagine they would be obliged to cover at least part of the costs involved with a recall of this magnitude.
 
Mine only froze the once and has been fine since.

So I personally wouldn't welcome a recall as such - if it ain't broke etc... What I think Apple should do if this is a hardware fault is simply extend the warranty indefinitely with regard to this specific problem. Didn't they do something similar with iBook logic boards a while back? I'd be quite satified to know that if the graphics card fries two or three years down the line then Apple will fix the issue. I can then enjoy my iMac worry free now.

And no I don't have Applecare. I prefer to rely on UK law that a product should be manufactured fit for purpose - which means a premium priced computer should be reasonably expected not to fail for several years. I don't see why I should pay Apple additional insurance against faults in their design or manufacture. If they get us all to purchase Applecare there's not much incentive for them to perform QC is there?
 
Lots of people are saying that they have had their GPU replaced and are now freeze-free but none of them state what GPU they have now.

Is it still an ATI? Same or higher spec ATI? Maybe an nVIDIA?

It would be good to know what the replacement cards are.
 
Am I 'freezing'?

I've been reading about this iMac freezing problem for quite some time now. I got new Alu iMac shortly after they appeared, and I don't think I've had any freezing issues. However, sometimes when trying to reply to a message in Mail, it will 'beach ball' for quite some time before allowing me to do so. Also, Safari has crashed more times than any of my previous macs.

Is this the same kind of issue that other people are having??
 
iSlave said:
I've been reading about this iMac freezing problem for quite some time now. I got new Alu iMac shortly after they appeared, and I don't think I've had any freezing issues. However, sometimes when trying to reply to a message in Mail, it will 'beach ball' for quite some time before allowing me to do so. Also, Safari has crashed more times than any of my previous macs.

Is this the same kind of issue that other people are having??
Click to expand...

Sounds more like a bad install. The freeze issues require a hard reboot and the cursor is still active.

Saying that, even on my Mini, Safari has been really unstable since all the fanfare of the cross-platform Safari 3 (I'm not even on Safari 3 - perhaps it's more evidence of Apple's QA slipping on software upgrades).
 
I have said to many people now - if you are thinking of buying an iMac - forget it. This is my first and it is the most unreliable computer I have ever bought. Applecare say they can't do anything. They won't take the machine back, and the whole experience is simply frustrating.

I did keep hoping that some kind of software update would solve the problem - but this news today has really brought me right down.
Click to expand...

What exactly did they say to you? You can legally demand a replacement or refund as it is not of merchantable quality, whatever Apple may say.
There are plenty of perfect iMacs out there - don't let them fob you off.
 
MacBiscuit said:
And no I don't have Applecare. I prefer to rely on UK law that a product should be manufactured fit for purpose - which means a premium priced computer should be reasonably expected not to fail for several years. I don't see why I should pay Apple additional insurance against faults in their design or manufacture. If they get us all to purchase Applecare there's not much incentive for them to perform QC is there?
Click to expand...
Another Applecare DON'T buyer here. Eurpean laws force Apple to give us TWO years of warranty (even if they claim they give one), and I think that a defective hardware issue wiould surface within that time-span.
 
Unpredictable Freezes

Software...Hardware....Software??!?? May be both....

My Imac seems to freeze with with no pattern, plus programs (iPhoto, Imovie, Pages, Safari, Firefox) shut down instantly. I have never had freeze during encoding, its usually when I'm switching from one program to another or sometimes just reading email/surfing and seems completely random. It could have been running for days or for a couple of hours. Its driving me NUTS!!

My wife's Macbook works like a charm however, never crashed.
 
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