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From A PC to Mac

I think we have hit the nail on the head

Apple make greats products....True

Apple are reasonably sound in finances...True

Apple have a strong following...True

Apple have a good reputation...False

They need to market...NEED TO, and not some fancy iBook spinning with devices around it. That is too lame. People go 'look there is the laptop that you can plug an mp3 player into'.

It doesn't say, 5hr battery, Mac OS X, any device on the planet basically, iPod, lightness, durability, price. It just shows it floating around.

As if that is going to help in any way. They have to show to people like me, that is users of windows for such long periods who in fact hated macs, that they are a worthy product. I found out about it myself using the apple website. That is a great peace of advertising, yet it again is barely shown.

I love my Mac, and have stopped hating microsoft, to a point. I dont use windows, but i use Office v.x, thats what microsoft should do, make office suites. I have sold in 8 months 2 iBook's, 2 Powerbook's and another 8 iBook's are on the way. That is from someone who used to love to hate them.

Its finally time to prove to the world that Apple Computer's are great. There are so many fantastic products, its just time to start the advertising. Who cares if it eats a billion of Apple's cash, it will be worth it in the end.

My two cents
 
RE: AmbitiousLemon

Apple gets lots of respect in the right industries. If you Shop at CompUSA the workers there never even venture into the Mac Section (exept in SanFransico... that is an impressive Apple display) But if you work in the Web desine, Music, or fiml industry; then Apple gets mad respect. At the Berkley School of Music in Bostin, aguably one of the best Music schools in the nation or even the world, they have rows and rows of Supped up G4's to teach with. Check out the latest EQ magazine. Every other add has an apple logo or image of a G4 on it some place... and they are NOT Apple Adds. Venders just like to brag that it their products work with Macs. Episode I anyone? All the CGI was made with Macs (i beleve). Remeber that kid that submitted some art he did and it got in to movie? Lucus put him on the pay roll for making a ship or something like that on his Mac at home. He got to come into the work shop and work with the pros!! I saw the interview on the news durring all the Starwars hype. I think Apple do have the same kind "clout". "Only pros use them". True I get trashed at geek.com a lot for being a MacHead and my budy that works for MS thinks he knows something about computers and likes to go 10 rounds with me... (he had to call me for Tech support when he jamed his a-drive with a bacwards floppy...and he works for MS!) When my buddies come over and they see the glory that is my QuickSilver with a 17' Apple LCD. Even the die hard Windows users have to say "wow.. thats one hell of a computer" . I get respect arround the office. I work for a defence contractor. All of our real work is done in UNIX or Linux. We all have to check our email with our Win2000 boxes but hey.. its just email and powerpoint. When I show off how OS X is UNIX based... People arround here know how powerfull Macs can be.

wow .. that was a long rant :)

[Edited by evildead on 12-05-2001 at 06:11 PM]
 
apple reputation

i think apple has a good reputation for products and a bad reputation for running a business (it has always been seen that way where i live in northern california and silicon valley among everybody who is not a mac zealot)

zealots are idiots and don't like to hear things that mess with their "reality"

i can think of no company in recent american history that has lost momentum the way apple has right after a huge breakthrough product

apple has many of the best engineers and most likely has some good management people but steve jobs is the absolute worst when it comes to managing a company and that is the reason he once got fired from the company he helped start

without steve jobs, we would have not entered the home cumputer revolution as soon as we did and i can think of no person who can build a great following with a product and introduce it with such class and flair...he is a genius but that does not make him the best financial decision maker anymore than it makes einstein (the great scientist) a world class basketball player

where are all the articles that think steve jobs is a good ceo now? where is the confidence in apple as a good investment on the stock exchange? this is not a topic to be looked as subjectively or with an emotional slant...apple is as good at making computers as it is bad at retaining money or keeping the stockholders happy

don't get me wrong, apple is the best computer ever but i know the difference between a good money manager and a bad one and it does not take a millionaire or rocket scientist to see that in the business sector, apple is not the strongest company mostly because it was built around steve jobs' personality and his convenient way to spin a bad situation and make it look good and somehow believe in it himself

it is the most disappointing macworlds where steve jobs spins the prettiest webs and now more and more, us mac users are not impressed

we don't want hype in january...we want 1 GHz, G5s, or an LCD imac. period.

his way of outright deception (the reality distortion field as steve jobs and his style are called in business circles) makes for a whole culture of computer users who like to bend the facts because of the example steve jobs leads with

i only wish that the woz would come back to help take over the company because in truth, apple was at its most stable with him around because "he" is the real reason behind apple, inc

i am not saying the woz is the best businessman either but he is certainly more trusted and respected by us techies by far and that type of good word is what i think apple will need to get back into the higher realms of the stock market

steve jobs saved apple in 1997 and he should be congragulated for that feat...he just does not know how to follow through and every day, i think more and more that apple might need a new ceo someday yet sometimes it might be him keeping the fragile five percent market share intact because the mac faithful love him so much and a lot of the younger mac users i meet under thirty have no idea who steve wozniak was

read the book infinite loop

and check out http://www.woz.org for a more balanced view of what apple is really about

now this is at least one of several posts i have made on this thread way off topic (my usual style) so i will stop now...was this thread called something like from pc to mac?

 
Woz left Apple before the Mac was developed. Woz has absolutely nothing to do with the Mac - he is a very nice guy though.

Seve Jobs was just a boy when he was booted out of Apple before - he's now a lot older and a lot wizer. He's not a nice guy like Woz, but who ever said that business was about being nice.
 
Originally posted by Foocha
Woz left Apple before the Mac was developed. Woz has absolutely nothing to do with the Mac - he is a very nice guy though.

Seve Jobs was just a boy when he was booted out of Apple before - he's now a lot older and a lot wizer. He's not a nice guy like Woz, but who ever said that business was about being nice.
Click to expand...

How can you say steve jobs is not a nice guy?? Have you met him??
 
jefhatfield must have bought AAPL...

He must have bought it at about 110 to be so pissed off about its current valuation.

Did you get out of your position, Jef?
 
Three words for Apple

Greetings from a first-time poster.

I have been reading this thread and must say I am in total agreement with those who feel Apple needs to do a better job at marketing themselves and their product. My three words for Apple: Advertise, advertise, advertise! And not just in Macworld and other Mac publications. And not just in business mags like Business Week. They need to be advertising in diverse mags like Teen People, Smithsonian, Playboy, whatever. And I agree that more TV ads are needed, as well as better ones that show what the Mac can do, not just how cool it looks.

Is there ANYONE in the US (with a TV, anyway) who does not know that Microsoft just released XP? You've got Madonna singing and people flying, and it's ubiquitous. You cannot turn the TV on without seeing one of their ads, and just in time for Christmas!

Everyone knows that Microsoft has, er, flattered Apple occasionally in the most sincere form (imitation). Here is a case where Apple should be imitating Microsoft.

As a long term Mac user, I don't mind singing the praises of Apple products to friends, but I don't think it should be our responsibility solely. Apple needs to pick up the slack.

[Edited by Mood Indigo on 12-06-2001 at 10:40 AM]
 
Welcome MoodyIndigo

:) welcome to macrumors MoodIndigo, i believe it was just under a week ago that i posted my first message.

I think most people have been upset about my calling apple a "bad company." We all seem to agree apple hasnt been doing its job advertising. and most of us agree that this has resulted in ignorant peecee users creating a myth about macs as being overpriced pieces of... um...coprolites. if you can agree to all that and cant agree that apple is therefore a "bad company" than i think perhaps you are unable of seeing past beautiful computers :) and if you are that maccentric i cant say i really mind. but do try to see the world without your mac tinted sunglasses sometime... i think you would be surprised at what that rest of the world is like. ;)
 
Don't agree

I think Apple does a fantastic job at advertising and marketing their products - hence their recent success.

Apple spends more on advertising their products than any other PC manufacturer. Of course their marketing spend does not equal that of Microsoft this year, but I'm not sure that level of spend would be smart for a company of Apple's size.

As Jef points out, marketing is one of Job's strong points.
 
Where are the ads?

Hey there, Foocha. Perhaps you're right, and I'm just not seeing the ads. But I'm an avid reader, and I see Microsoft, Gateway, and Dell ads in nearly every magazine I read, but I only very rarely see Apple ads. Parade Magazine, which comes with our local Sunday paper, features a Dell ad EVERY WEEK. (The last Apple mag ad I remember seeing consistently were the "Think Different" ads with Ghandi, Einstein, etc., which, while very cool, didn't really say much about what the Mac would do.) I'm not a huge TV watcher, but I have seen at most one or two apple ads over the course of years (the Pentium smashing steamroller was one), while I see the XP ad--literally--every time I turn on CSI or The Guardian.

Grantted, that is anecdotal evidence, and hardly a scientific sampling. You may watch more TV than I do. ;) Just kidding.

I believe Apple has great products, or I wouldn't be a Mac user. But if were were Joe Schmoe casual firsttime computer buyer, I'm not even sure I'd know there was an alternative to Wintel out there. I still say Apple needs to do a better job of reaching out to those people where they read (like People magazine or Sports Illustrated) and watch TV (like "Survivor" or "Friends.")
 
Re: C'mon people.

I think you will find that Apple is in the top few recognised brands in the world!!!
 
The Apple brand routinely scores very highly in brand recognition research. Also, Apple has the highest level of loyalty of any PC manufacturer.

The best other PC brands like Dell can hope to represent is value - Apple stands for things like innovation and creativity - this is proven time and time again in research.

The brand is one of Apple Inc's most cherished assets. It was waining a bit back in '97, but the recent polish Jobs has given it has put the brand back where it belongs - it's a Superbrand - official.

Regarding Jobs, since I haven't met him, I can't comment on how "nice" he is. The point I was making earlier is that he's not a "nice" guy in the way Woz is always portrayed as a nice guy. How do I know Woz is a nice guy? Because Wired magazine and jefhatfield tell me ;)
 
AmbitiousLemon

FROM AMBITIOUS LEMON- "Episode I anyone? All the CGI was made with Macs (i beleve)."


No, they use SGI's. (Unix) Check out http://www.ilm.com and check out their job oppurtunities section. They want people with Unix experience. Most large studios write their own 3D software similar to Maya, and use Unix as their OS.
 
Star Wars & Mac

Macs were used in the development of animatics - simple animated storyboards in the pre-production phase. Lucas is on record as saying this - I think this is shown in one of the documentaries on the DVD. It's cheap, quick, flexible and easy for them to do it this way with a Mac & final cut pro.

Macs were certainly not used to produce any of the final effects. Imagine - it would have taken them years to render all that on a Mac!!!
 
Re: Star Wars & Mac

Could have been worse!! Could have been rendered on a pc (running windows)!
 
where is agreenster getting his facts ????

15,000 grand for a dual cpu intel based ? not even close. It always kills me when i hear about macs being speed/performance tested against intel based. They always test like cpu clock speeds but forget that macs cost about 3x more. Right now 524 mb of mem. for a "wintel" is about 40 bucks. That dual 800 you spoke of could have 2 gig of mem and STILL cost much less than a mac. And it would probably blow the mac away in almost all areas if not all areas. Macs are specifically designed for graphic intense programs, or atleast it would seem that way. The macs are great "for their specific purpose" but as a general use machine they are a joke. That is why the average person will not buy them, and why the average person could never justify the cost. Have the macs even gone to a two button mouse yet ? On my wintel I have four monitors via a matrox MMS video card, it is also cable ready via a matrox card in addition to DVD, USB etc etc. Sure drivers are always something to install. But the fact is the following.
And i will make this very clear.

The "REALM" of possiblity with a "wintel" is MUCH MUCH greater than that of any mac. Clearly you can do more iwth a wintel, and you can do it cheaper and easier. WIth the greater realm of what you can do with the system also comes a greater realm of potential complications. That is just math pure and simple. For the people that compare macs as the mercedes of computers, if you look at what you can and CANT do with them, they are actually the Yugos. However they carry the pricetag of a mercedes. Its a paradox for sure.

It does not really matter what Mac does, until they address the above issue of USE, and expand the realm of what can and cant be done with a mac..they will never enjoy a larger market share. Macs are specilized systems. Microsoft and Intel designed their systems and technology to save people time, increase the realm of possiblity and counted on most people buying their product which in turn drove the prices down. Basically, they designed it for the masses. I do not put down the macs, they excel in their speciality and are clearly the better choice in some circumstances. But to hear mac people put down the wintel's is quite troubling and unfair. Microsoft revolutionized the computer world. The made computers easy and friendly for the average schmoe ! That schmoe who now has a computer is a potential customer, user, etc. Give them credit !

Just my opinion, but I feel it is a very solid one.


Additionally, there is one other area that mac is not looking at. They try to hoard their systems. What ?
Think about it.
I can buy parts and build a wintel from a host of different manufacturers. Can you do that with a mac ? OH NO !
Furthermore, mac doesnt even consider the "reseller community." If i was a computer reseller can i easily resell macs ? OH NO.

The real question is...do they really want to sell more macs ? From their actions....I would answer a clear and resounding NO !

[Edited by justthefacts on 12-06-2001 at 12:35 PM]
 
Re: where is agreenster getting his facts ????

Originally posted by justthefacts
Click to expand...
Right now 524 mb of mem. for a "wintel" is about 40 bucks.
Unless you've been livin in the 90's Mac and Wintel machines generally use the same RAM. (pc133)

Macs are specifically designed for graphic intense programs, or atleast it would seem that way. The macs are great "for their specific purpose" but as a general use machine they are a joke. That is why the average person will not buy them, and why the average person could never justify the cost.

Mac's are designed to be easy to use computers than just about anyone can start up and get something done on. At the time I bought my first mac, I was an "average" computer user. I bought a performa 6360 for around 2 grand.

I justified the cost by knowing that I would probably never have to replace a network card, a monitor cable, a modem, a keyboard, etc. I've had that computer for 7 years now almost and haven't had to replace a single thing! And I still use it quite frequently, since it is my print server.

I have since bought 2 other macs, a blue and white G3 and a G4 cube, and I haven't had a trouble with either of them.

Have the macs even gone to a two button mouse yet ?

How is this even relavent?

On my wintel I have four monitors via a matrox MMS video card, it is also cable ready via a matrox card in addition to DVD, USB etc etc. Sure drivers are always something to install.

I don't have it on mine but I know people who also have multiple monitors for thier macs, and it's a simple process of opening the computer, and putting a new card in. Not to bad and usually not a driver issue.

The "REALM" of possiblity with a "wintel" is MUCH MUCH greater than that of any mac. Clearly you can do more iwth a wintel, and you can do it cheaper and easier.
This may have been true about 5 years ago but with the mac system being pretty much the same components as a wintel box (ata drives, ide cd's, pc133 ram, pci cards, agp slots, etc..) this point is nearly non-existent these days.

WIth the greater realm of what you can do with the system also comes a greater realm of potential complications. That is just math pure and simple. For the people that compare macs as the mercedes of computers, if you look at what you can and CANT do with them, they are actually the Yugos. However they carry the pricetag of a mercedes. Its a paradox for sure.

What can't you do on a mac that you can do on a pc? Go ahead, fill me in.

Macs are specilized systems.

True
Microsoft and Intel designed their systems and technology to save people time, increase the realm of possiblity and counted on most people buying their product which in turn drove the prices down. Basically, they designed it for the masses.
After getting the idea from the macintosh.

I do not put down the macs, they excel in their speciality and are clearly the better choice in some circumstances.
This contradicts your above comments

But to hear mac people put down the wintel's is quite troubling and unfair. Microsoft revolutionized the computer world. The made computers easy and friendly for the average schmoe !
Microsoft doesn't make computers. And what they do make is a product that has a tight grip on society because of their monopolistic business practices.
 
Right now 524 mb of mem. for a "wintel" is about 40 bucks.
Unless you've been livin in the 90's Mac and Wintel machines generally use the same RAM. (pc133)

Yes this is true, I forgot. I was only addressing the fact that agreenster said that a dual 800 plus a lot of memory was 15 thousand. That is a gross exaggeration.


Macs are specifically designed for graphic intense programs, or atleast it would seem that way. The macs are great "for their specific purpose" but as a general use machine they are a joke. That is why the average person will not buy them, and why the average person could never justify the cost.

Mac's are designed to be easy to use computers than just about anyone can start up and get something done on. At the time I bought my first mac, I was an "average" computer user. I bought a performa 6360 for around 2 grand.

Well...is that is the case why dont more people buy them ? And I know people that have LOTS of troubles with Macs. The illusion you present that "mac's never have issues" is simply not true. My cousin and best friend is a DIE HARD mac guy, has been from the start and I have seen him have troubles with that machine. I dont have troubles with my "wintels" so what does that mean ? Does it mean wintels are perfect ? No, it means i know what i am doing, and perhaps my cousin doesnt, although I know he does. Its all relative. You cannot make such generalizations. The fact is, most systems used by most people are wintels and damned if the world doesnt keep going around pretty smooth !

I justified the cost by knowing that I would probably never have to replace a network card, a monitor cable, a modem, a keyboard, etc. I've had that computer for 7 years now almost and haven't had to replace a single thing! And I still use it quite frequently, since it is my print server.

I have two laptops and three desktops and have never replaced any of those things...so what are you insinuating ? And if a nic goes bad how is that the fault of intel tech. or microsoft ???? Get real. Now microsoft and intel are responsible for keyboard and nic manufacturers and their cards going bad ?

I have since bought 2 other macs, a blue and white G3 and a G4 cube, and I haven't had a trouble with either of them.

Have the macs even gone to a two button mouse yet ?

How is this even relavent?

I like two buttons, and wont use a computer that reduces my tools for input into the system.

On my wintel I have four monitors via a matrox MMS video card, it is also cable ready via a matrox card in addition to DVD, USB etc etc. Sure drivers are always something to install.

I don't have it on mine but I know people who also have multiple monitors for thier macs, and it's a simple process of opening the computer, and putting a new card in. Not to bad and usually not a driver issue.

Not as common on macs. and you have to put in a card for EACH monitor. Would there be room for anything else ?

The "REALM" of possiblity with a "wintel" is MUCH MUCH greater than that of any mac. Clearly you can do more iwth a wintel, and you can do it cheaper and easier.
This may have been true about 5 years ago but with the mac system being pretty much the same components as a wintel box (ata drives, ide cd's, pc133 ram, pci cards, agp slots, etc..) this point is nearly non-existent these days.

Thats not true at all ! Its not about the technology, its about how easy it is to do, how common, and how readily available things are. Most people dont even know that mac has FINALLY started using the same peripherals that intel uses in order to try to reduce their user friendliness issues.

WIth the greater realm of what you can do with the system also comes a greater realm of potential complications. That is just math pure and simple. For the people that compare macs as the mercedes of computers, if you look at what you can and CANT do with them, they are actually the Yugos. However they carry the pricetag of a mercedes. Its a paradox for sure.

What can't you do on a mac that you can do on a pc? Go ahead, fill me in.

What is the max charactor count in a thread ? Wouldnt it exceed it ?

Macs are specilized systems.

True
Microsoft and Intel designed their systems and technology to save people time, increase the realm of possiblity and counted on most people buying their product which in turn drove the prices down. Basically, they designed it for the masses.
After getting the idea from the macintosh.

So if they got the idea from mac, why did mac get away from it ?

I do not put down the macs, they excel in their speciality and are clearly the better choice in some circumstances.
This contradicts your above comments

No it doesnt, I am not putting down a mac but simply defining why most people will by an intel based. It is just analyzing, not judging.

But to hear mac people put down the wintel's is quite troubling and unfair. Microsoft revolutionized the computer world. The made computers easy and friendly for the average schmoe !
Microsoft doesn't make computers. And what they do make is a product that has a tight grip on society because of their monopolistic business practices.

If they have a monopoly it is because they have been so successful and it was INEVITABLE ! No one starts out as being a monopoly. They simply got into the spot they are in because they made it easy for EVERYONE. More people have goten rich selling microsoft products, intel products and intel based technology in general. If not for microsoft and intel there would be a LOT less people with systems. That would be a bad thing for a lot of reasons.
 
The fact is that Microsoft is NOT at fault for being what many of you call a "monopoly." They did a better job of marketing, listening to the consumer, and producing products that have a broad scope of capabilities and combined with the intel architecture that was already dominent and readily available the two have dominated the computer industry.
Unix variants and Macs are harder to attack with virus and excel in certain areas but it is all limited to certain areas of the overall field. Mac has made decisions that have helped unisolate them. And they were ISOLATED in their technology. They chose to be all alone and take their chances. I think that when Mac decided to move their technology in the direction of being friendly to the other technology it was clear proof of defeat. Much like saying "if you cant beat them, join them."

Macs are good systems, so is unix, wintel. They all play a part in this industry but on different levels and areas.

What I do not like, is mac people putting down wintel's. It is the same as putting down the people that buy wintel's. Which is rude.
You bought your system for your reasons.
Others buy theirs for their reasons.

That is how the world works.

Microsoft is a better ran company when you judge by bottom line.

Funny how you do not find wintelrumors.com that holds a forum of wintel owners criticizing mac owners/users.

Because we are busy living, enjoying, and being happy.

Perhaps some of you should do the same !

The fact is that IF mac wanted to gain more market share, they have high paid analyst to tell them how to do it.

I think they realy choose NOT to.

But the pictures you paint of network cards being bad, replacing keyboards etc etc is just not fair or realistic.
That is not how it goes !

Most of the systems out there are WINTEL's and the world keeps spinning so something out there somewhere must be working.

But the fact is that mac computers are not as "user friendly" as wintels. That cannot be seriously disputed.
Can you just drag your program folder to another folder and have the program still work...yes. But most people dont know anything about that.

And NO..the most complicated software and hardware will not run on a mac.

The fact is if mac wanted to gain market share they need to quite ignoring computer resellers. They are the companies that sell most of the products and steer public opinion.

For example, how often do you see a mac web server ?
Almost never !

Can it run dynamic web sites ? Asp, php, oracle, sql etc ?

So then when you deal with compatibility issues..who is going to do all of their work on a mac just to NOT be able to send reports and what not to the masses because MOSt people are on wintels ?

If mac REALLy wanted to gain market share, they should start building some wintels !

That is what they should REALLY do.
Offer the mac tech. and the wintel tech.
They could easily do it.
Let them instead enter the playing field of wintels and perfect it instead of trying to ignore it from across the ocean.

I do not think Mac could accomplish what the wintels have and do as well.
If the wintels never existed, we would have a much higher number of people without computers.
 
Originally posted by justthefacts
Click to expand...
Yes this is true, I forgot. I was only addressing the fact that agreenster said that a dual 800 plus a lot of memory was 15 thousand. That is a gross exaggeration.

I believe he said 3 gigs of memory, in which case it would probably up the cost significantly since you'll have to outfit it with memory risers, etc.

Well...is that is the case why dont more people buy them ? And I know people that have LOTS of troubles with Macs. The illusion you present that "mac's never have issues" is simply not true.
I wasn't insinuating that mac's never have problems, I'm just saying that mine haven't had any.

My cousin and best friend is a DIE HARD mac guy, has been from the start and I have seen him have troubles with that machine. I dont have troubles with my "wintels" so what does that mean ? Does it mean wintels are perfect ? No, it means i know what i am doing, and perhaps my cousin doesnt, although I know he does. Its all relative. You cannot make such generalizations.

Nor can you. Just because you haven't had any problems doesn't count out the fact that some people will, just like the the argument you made above. Our two senarios hardly correlate to the thousands of other people that have had a mac die or a compaq die, etc.

I have two laptops and three desktops and have never replaced any of those things...so what are you insinuating ? And if a nic goes bad how is that the fault of intel tech. or microsoft ???? Get real. Now microsoft and intel are responsible for keyboard and nic manufacturers and their cards going bad ?

Well since apple bundles all thier devices together in a proprietary format you (or anybody) immediately blames apple for making a "crappy computer." This doesn't equate well in the "wintel" world if you try to compare it to just intel or only microsoft. Compare Apple to someone like Dell or Compaq/HP and it sits a little better.

Point is the above argument is irrelevent, if a nic goes bad in the a wintel computer, it's the manufacturer of the nic's fault. If a nic in the apple computer goes bad it's apples fault. Even though apple may not have made the nic, it still gets blamed for the fault. Only because it was in their computer.

Have the macs even gone to a two button mouse yet ?

Mine have, yes.

I like two buttons, and wont use a computer that reduces my tools for input into the system.

Some people find that less = more.

Not as common on macs. and you have to put in a card for EACH monitor. Would there be room for anything else ?

Sadly there are not any cards that have 4 monitor support for mac, but you can get cards that have dual monitor support, so it wouldn't take up too much room.

Thats not true at all ! Its not about the technology, its about how easy it is to do, how common, and how readily available things are. Most people dont even know that mac has FINALLY started using the same peripherals that intel uses in order to try to reduce their user friendliness issues.

Most people who use a mac, know this. And getting a peripheral for a mac isn't that hard, if you know where to look.

What is the max charactor count in a thread ? Wouldnt it exceed it ?

Clever :) . Go ahead, give me a couple of examples.

So if they got the idea from mac, why did mac get away from it ?
How have they gotten away from it?

I'm not trying to do a pc vs mac thing here. I like my mac and I think it is the best tool to do what I need to do. I'm not about "converting" pc users.

If you like PC's then by all means continue to use them.
I like mac's and I'll continue to use it.

What kind of computer(s) do you have by the way.

 
Originally posted by justthefacts
Click to expand...
Funny how you do not find wintelrumors.com that holds a forum of wintel owners criticizing mac owners/users.

We don't generally criticize wintel users here, in fact most people here have/use wintels.

Because we are busy living, enjoying, and being happy

as are we

For example, how often do you see a mac web server ?
Almost never !

I've seen them around, macaddict for one, I'll see if I can find others.

Can it run dynamic web sites ? Asp, php, oracle, sql etc ?

yes (os x)

So then when you deal with compatibility issues..who is going to do all of their work on a mac just to NOT be able to send reports and what not to the masses because MOSt people are on wintels ?

Uhh, this argument is irrelevant. Mac's have been relatively cross platform and conforming to the Wintel society for years now.
 
Actually he said 16 Gig of memory. I took that as a joke.
I appreciate that you admit macs have problems, so many mac users submit the same opinion which is "macs never have problems and wintels are full of them."

I have always maintained that most problems are OE (operator error) or in the choice of configuration.

One major benefit to wintel's is the CHOICEs you have. Does mac offer a tv tuner ? Yes i believe there are one or two out there, but by far wintel's give you more options. And I love being able to build my own systems.

Most of the limitations in the macs these days are on the software side, although the hardware area has most of the same bases covered but with much less options in general. That is not even addressing how readily available those few choices are. Mac stores are few and far between for the average person, and getting someone to work on them is another story. And yes they do need worked on from time to time just like wintels. If the wintels were limited to the same software and hardware options as the macs then the problems with them would greatly reduce. That is a fact. Problems on wintels are generally caused by people loading to much "crap" on them. But i still prefer to use technology that gives me lots of options as to what to load and use on my system.

As to mac users "knowing where to look" to get peripherals, wintel user dont need to know where to look. The market is saturated.

And remember, I never started this out to be mac vs. pc issue either. I am simply stating why the macs are not the NORM and enjoying greater market share.

I do know their first step to gain market share should be to allow third party companies to openly develope mac based systems including the motherboards etc. And OPEN IT ALL UP.
That alone will expand the market and exposure.

If i, as a reseller, could build and sell macs I would seriously consider doing it ! I really would.

I am a reseller and in a few years have personally built and sold close to 1,000 computers. I have always picked my own parts and have had great success with warranties and performance over the long-haul. Sure the occasional cd-rom goes bad, but that is more because of the technology than anything else.

Personally my laptops are sceptre's http://www.sceptre.com and my home systems are clones I have built.
I am still on Dual PIII's.
I can build a dual PIII 900mhz with add on raid, mirrored and striped 40 giger, two gig of mem and all the bells and whistles for about 1,000.00. Of course the four 21 inch monitors ran me 500.00 a piece from sceptre, but that was worth it in my opinion.

I will also say that compaq and hp are jokes when it comes to serious systems. I dont stay up on the dells and gateway's anymore, but from past experience they probably are too in my opinion.

The basis for me staying in the wintel world is the options i have which I would not have in the mac world.

I sincerly wish mac would open their world up to resellers and the average joe schmoe.
 
I do want to address your comparison of mac to dell, compaq etc.

Its not really true.

Mac is like dell in that they sell OEM systems.
However, they are also like Intel that they drive the technology behind the chip.

They are also like microsoft that they control the OS.

So they are really all by themselves in how they control and operate the mac world.

They do NOT want anyone else building "macs". Heaven forbid another company could do it cheaper.
Unlike with a Wintel you cannot run another OS on a mac. You can run unix on a wintel, or dos, linux, solaris etc.

Mac decides to stay in their own little world, and by doing so they have alienated themselves. Their small market share is not because "wintel users dont know that macs are better." The people in this forum that think that mac simply needs to get more people to understand that are SERIOUSLY naive.

The fact is it starts in the schools, which if my info is correct, mac already has a great handle on. However, they lose people because the world is saturated with wintels. ANd that is NOT the fault of the monopolistic microsoft.
Microsoft is not a monopoly.
Most of their products are not sold to the end user by microsoft, but by resellers. The resellers drive the market, and that...and that only..is the KEY to mac getting a greater market share.

But..they know that.

and for whatever reason, they dont care. ANd i think it is because they know if they open it up, the resellers and other oems will do it better, and cheaper and put them OUT OF BUSINESS !
So they stay behind closed doors, and take their little 5% market share.
 
Originally posted by justthefacts
Click to expand...
Unlike with a Wintel you cannot run another OS on a mac. You can run unix on a wintel, or dos, linux, solaris etc.
I don't disagree with any of you remarks except the above.

You can run linux (www.yellowdowlinux.com or http://www.linuxppc.com)and beOS (granted not a lot of choices) but if I absolutely had to i could run any variant of windows.

http://home.austin.rr.com/akuma/mac_windows.jpg
i only use windows to check on my access databases that I run at work, everything else I need software-side i already got on a mac.

other than that I think we are on the same page regarding apples marketing decisions.

:)

 
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