I have to admit that IE5.5 on W2K offers a much faster surfing experience that IE 5.1 on OS X, although I put this down to 5.1's HTML rendering engine rather than the plumbing - I think FreeBSD (on which OS X is based) is more than a match for W2K in terms of TCP/IP implimentations.
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From A PC to Mac
- Thread starter kaisera
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I don't think this point is even provable. I can sit here and say that this Win 98 box I'm using will cruise the web faster than my win ME box right beside it. But it will be a moot point. What if the server that I am accessing just happens to be hit with a ton of traffic right before I load their site on my ME box. Well then the 98 box will load faster. But wait, my road runner cable modem suddenly gets spammed by a mass email, well then both boxes are gonna be slow.
You cannot possibly compare internet speeds, there are just too many variables. CPU bottlenecks, ISP bandwith, net traffic, etc etc. Even if it was possible to isolate all variables it wouldn't be a "true" test of speed, since it wasn't real world.
My realworld tests show to me that my 400mhz g3 is faster on the net, than any of my PC boxes (2 AMD 900mhz and a P3 466) but all are plenty fast for me and most end users (not us) would barely notice the difference, if they did at all.
I'll give you the fact that WIn200 is stable. I have a win2000 box that has been on three months w/o one problem (it's a database server) My only beef was the upgrade from 98 to 2000. 8 reboots! I mean come on is that absolutely necessary. I could understand maybe 3, (1) to rewrite the file system (2) to transfer old data (3) to get up and running. But 8 restarts, thats uneeded.
I have a mac at home that has been running for 3 months also, and it gets more of a workout than that win2000 box everyday (net router, print server, etc.) so stability is about the same. Those are just my tests so take them how you may.
Mac vs PC
Hey Justhefacts-
Totally agreeing with you here- It doesnt take a 15,000 dollar machine to whip a mac. Heck, a 1,500 dollar PC can, in some cases, whip a mac. But that wasnt my point- My original point was that a Mac is not some super computer, and it isnt the best around, as many people elude to. What I am saying is that Apple is a good computer company, who make great systems, especially their higher end G4's. And you are right, no company deserves market share. I just feel that they have made some marketing mistakes, but that shouldnt reflect on the quality of their product. Price? maybe. My point is that Im disgusted that Apple doesnt do something more to enhance their presence (more!) in the hardware market, because they make really nice machines, that many people would (I think) switch to if they knew some of the benefits of these systems.
And about the really expensive Intellistation, I was just trying to point out that many, many loyal Apple users immediately claim truths, when really they have nothing to base it on. Lets be honest, there are good companies and good hardware other than Apple. Its just that we prefer Apple, and we wish they had more of a presence both in the consumer market, and with the respect of other PC users.
Oh, and whoever I gave a thumbs down to--it was about your Star Wars comment, not about you. Sorry bud.
Hey Justhefacts-
Totally agreeing with you here- It doesnt take a 15,000 dollar machine to whip a mac. Heck, a 1,500 dollar PC can, in some cases, whip a mac. But that wasnt my point- My original point was that a Mac is not some super computer, and it isnt the best around, as many people elude to. What I am saying is that Apple is a good computer company, who make great systems, especially their higher end G4's. And you are right, no company deserves market share. I just feel that they have made some marketing mistakes, but that shouldnt reflect on the quality of their product. Price? maybe. My point is that Im disgusted that Apple doesnt do something more to enhance their presence (more!) in the hardware market, because they make really nice machines, that many people would (I think) switch to if they knew some of the benefits of these systems.
And about the really expensive Intellistation, I was just trying to point out that many, many loyal Apple users immediately claim truths, when really they have nothing to base it on. Lets be honest, there are good companies and good hardware other than Apple. Its just that we prefer Apple, and we wish they had more of a presence both in the consumer market, and with the respect of other PC users.
Oh, and whoever I gave a thumbs down to--it was about your Star Wars comment, not about you. Sorry bud.
1. I agree with Foocha, that a mac will not win that test. Testing is possible if you do ENOUGH test, using all of the same other variables. And in the case of the win 2k vs. 98 which is what we did first..the results were so clearly better on the win2k that it was obvious. Then when I read what I did about what microsoft did with win2k it all made sense.
I think all systems can be stable or not stable..it all depends on the other variables.
Also Foocha, I program primarily in ASP. I love being able to call vb, C++ etc etc from my code. Jsp just doesnt allow it. They are both viable solutions. As for dumping IIS, I do not agree. Those problems came from NEtwork admins that didnt set up the systems right primarily.
My customers dont have any problems.
The one DOWNSIDE to how open the microsoft world is to anyone, is that almost anyone can start selling and implementing the technology..and that..brings LOTS of problems for many companies. There again, its just just so much the technology at fault..but the implementation.
And that is also why microsoft systems get attacked more.
1. There are more of them( I dont mean just web servers, IIS web servers are the minority)
2. The entire technology is easier to learn, attack and exploit. Microsoft goes to great lengths to make the OS that way.
I will never argue that IIS is the best web server solution, but it is a good one IF You know how to use it.
Truth be told...unix and linux are not the "locked up tight" boxes they appear to be.
Many times I have considered staying in PHP and JSP. But asp is hot..and easy..and customers want it because of the low cost. But if you use it..you have to know what you are doing, and how to protect the NT/Win2k server it sits on. Actually..that asp side of it is TIGHT ! Its the IIS part that has issues.
Quite simply..those servers that were infected so bad with code red and the like werent being watched and updated regularly. I run firewall software, hardware, and virus software on all nt/win2k servers and have no issues. Total cost for all of that is less than 200 dollars. cheap, easy fix that bypasses and hides microsoft security holes.
Microsoft is surely guilty of not being perfect.
Their attitude is to offer a solution for everything, and promise people and update if a problem is found. Although for obvious reasons there are problems with that. The fact is from a business standpoint..its very smart on their part.
Even oracle has an NT version,and it runs very well. VERY WELL ! And at a fraction of the cost of SQL 2k.
I would like to see Mac attempt what Microsoft has..and see if they can accomplish perfection.
Windows is an open TECHNOLOGY. In that you and I can make hardware for it easily, software easily, and even build wintel systems and sell them. That is what I mean by OPEN !
Even if they LOST IIS, microsoft will go on...in almost every business ....everyday.
It is just a fact.
And the fact is they see the "big picture" not the small slice of the industry that mac deals with.
I love competition. I wish Mac would open their eyes, their platform and their systems. Let the resellers get involved and push the technology to a whole new level of market share for mac. I would LOVE THAT !!
I think all systems can be stable or not stable..it all depends on the other variables.
Also Foocha, I program primarily in ASP. I love being able to call vb, C++ etc etc from my code. Jsp just doesnt allow it. They are both viable solutions. As for dumping IIS, I do not agree. Those problems came from NEtwork admins that didnt set up the systems right primarily.
My customers dont have any problems.
The one DOWNSIDE to how open the microsoft world is to anyone, is that almost anyone can start selling and implementing the technology..and that..brings LOTS of problems for many companies. There again, its just just so much the technology at fault..but the implementation.
And that is also why microsoft systems get attacked more.
1. There are more of them( I dont mean just web servers, IIS web servers are the minority)
2. The entire technology is easier to learn, attack and exploit. Microsoft goes to great lengths to make the OS that way.
I will never argue that IIS is the best web server solution, but it is a good one IF You know how to use it.
Truth be told...unix and linux are not the "locked up tight" boxes they appear to be.
Many times I have considered staying in PHP and JSP. But asp is hot..and easy..and customers want it because of the low cost. But if you use it..you have to know what you are doing, and how to protect the NT/Win2k server it sits on. Actually..that asp side of it is TIGHT ! Its the IIS part that has issues.
Quite simply..those servers that were infected so bad with code red and the like werent being watched and updated regularly. I run firewall software, hardware, and virus software on all nt/win2k servers and have no issues. Total cost for all of that is less than 200 dollars. cheap, easy fix that bypasses and hides microsoft security holes.
Microsoft is surely guilty of not being perfect.
Their attitude is to offer a solution for everything, and promise people and update if a problem is found. Although for obvious reasons there are problems with that. The fact is from a business standpoint..its very smart on their part.
Even oracle has an NT version,and it runs very well. VERY WELL ! And at a fraction of the cost of SQL 2k.
I would like to see Mac attempt what Microsoft has..and see if they can accomplish perfection.
Windows is an open TECHNOLOGY. In that you and I can make hardware for it easily, software easily, and even build wintel systems and sell them. That is what I mean by OPEN !
Even if they LOST IIS, microsoft will go on...in almost every business ....everyday.
It is just a fact.
And the fact is they see the "big picture" not the small slice of the industry that mac deals with.
I love competition. I wish Mac would open their eyes, their platform and their systems. Let the resellers get involved and push the technology to a whole new level of market share for mac. I would LOVE THAT !!
servers
justthefacts,
if you look back on this thread, we mac people are talking about mac stand alones vs. pc stand alones, not networking or POS
i am a pc network engineer and know that the pc world has that market hands down with NT and windows 2000 and i am sure windows xp will take over that market since the microsoft certified professional program is considering decertifying all the NT and windows 2000 engineers (june 2002 possibly is what the networking forums say) in favor of an all windows xp force of techs by the end of 2002
but mac users here never said anything about wanting to take over the server world or the POS world...hey, the pc companies could have it
macs dominate the world for artists and apple could increase share on stand alone computers in the home and business
justthefacts, we are both in the pc business...if you were apple, would you want to jump into the maze of the POS market or the disappointing world of networking with competing protocols, wireless, fiber optic, etc?
while apple has lost confidence with investors, they still didn't fall as hard as novell, cisco, nortel, and the networking world in general...where are those networked homes and networked mom and pop businesses?...i am from the frickin silicon valley and they ain't here...who knows, maybe the swamps of louisiana has all the new networking technology and san jose is behind
as for your comments that micrsoft is where it is because of good business
mostly wrong.
microsoft got where they did by cheating and stealing...what do you think the government is doing going after them then? XP steals from os x, word steals from wordperfect, NT steals from novell netware, ie killed netscape with offering ie for free, and microsoft may try questionable practices going after the gaming market and pda market...ok, maybe saying steals from is too harsh but microsoft was a little too liberal in their interpretation of borrowing ideas and that is why a lot of companies got the government after microsoft
apple is low in the market share not because of POS and networking, but because they are bad at business but at least they are not being hounded by the government for monopolistic practices
unfortunately i have to make my living fixing pcs and pc networks but macs simply do not have as many issues and there are not as many of them and mac techs i know have to have a second job because the pcs dominate the landscape...but not because they are better
you do bring up points which are good about the pc and many mac users don't know what they are talking about when they flame you on this forum...mac users, i am sure you noticed, do not like to defend their arguments with solid facts most of the time but at least we are not cheaters and rip off artists like bill gates and microsoft in general
setting facts straight about pc vs mac hardware is why i am here, being a pc tech and a mac user ... but don't ask me about cars, latest rock bands, fashion, or latest ps2 games...in those topics and most others, i don't know jacksh@@ and i will be the first to admit it ;-)
anyway, welcome to this forum and i hope some of your input will give the mac community the pc side of the argument
justthefacts,
if you look back on this thread, we mac people are talking about mac stand alones vs. pc stand alones, not networking or POS
i am a pc network engineer and know that the pc world has that market hands down with NT and windows 2000 and i am sure windows xp will take over that market since the microsoft certified professional program is considering decertifying all the NT and windows 2000 engineers (june 2002 possibly is what the networking forums say) in favor of an all windows xp force of techs by the end of 2002
but mac users here never said anything about wanting to take over the server world or the POS world...hey, the pc companies could have it
macs dominate the world for artists and apple could increase share on stand alone computers in the home and business
justthefacts, we are both in the pc business...if you were apple, would you want to jump into the maze of the POS market or the disappointing world of networking with competing protocols, wireless, fiber optic, etc?
while apple has lost confidence with investors, they still didn't fall as hard as novell, cisco, nortel, and the networking world in general...where are those networked homes and networked mom and pop businesses?...i am from the frickin silicon valley and they ain't here...who knows, maybe the swamps of louisiana has all the new networking technology and san jose is behind
as for your comments that micrsoft is where it is because of good business
mostly wrong.
microsoft got where they did by cheating and stealing...what do you think the government is doing going after them then? XP steals from os x, word steals from wordperfect, NT steals from novell netware, ie killed netscape with offering ie for free, and microsoft may try questionable practices going after the gaming market and pda market...ok, maybe saying steals from is too harsh but microsoft was a little too liberal in their interpretation of borrowing ideas and that is why a lot of companies got the government after microsoft
apple is low in the market share not because of POS and networking, but because they are bad at business but at least they are not being hounded by the government for monopolistic practices
unfortunately i have to make my living fixing pcs and pc networks but macs simply do not have as many issues and there are not as many of them and mac techs i know have to have a second job because the pcs dominate the landscape...but not because they are better
you do bring up points which are good about the pc and many mac users don't know what they are talking about when they flame you on this forum...mac users, i am sure you noticed, do not like to defend their arguments with solid facts most of the time but at least we are not cheaters and rip off artists like bill gates and microsoft in general
setting facts straight about pc vs mac hardware is why i am here, being a pc tech and a mac user ... but don't ask me about cars, latest rock bands, fashion, or latest ps2 games...in those topics and most others, i don't know jacksh@@ and i will be the first to admit it ;-)
anyway, welcome to this forum and i hope some of your input will give the mac community the pc side of the argument
Wintel
I agree. (note my original post) Wintel users really know nothing about Macs. They sometimes dont even realize that a Macintosh is manufactured by Apple. Yikes!
I think its unfortunate that people are closed minded, because they are missing out.
I agree. (note my original post) Wintel users really know nothing about Macs. They sometimes dont even realize that a Macintosh is manufactured by Apple. Yikes!
I think its unfortunate that people are closed minded, because they are missing out.
Jefhatfield....WOW..talk about putting things in perspective.
Although...whether Cisco, nortel etc fall..it doesnt affect me. I get paid by the hour..and I sell whatever is the best solution at the time. life goes on for me as a reseller.
Although I do more programming than anything.
I admit microsoft has not be as moral and ethical as they should be. And maybe they have actually "stolen" concepts and ideas. But its all busines for microsoft, the money they have made..minus legal fees, fines, penalties etc..still leaves them with a nice profit.
Heck..they get free marketing and advertising from their legal troubles..if you really think about it.
I will agree that Mac and mac users are not like microsoft and gates. But you should agree I am neither of those two entities (gates or microsoft). I only got into this for the market share issues..and somehow got into mac vs. pc.
The world could not survive with just macs. The wintels and technologies being used on them are needed.
I agree..that home users could use macs..and be happy.
Happy until they want to take the documents from work HOME to work on. Or vica versa. Or until they easily want to share files with their neighbors. There are a lot of compatiblity issues with all of that. So its not such an easy choice to go to "macs at home." And that is what stops many people I am sure. Then to convince them to pay more for their system. And...to accept that the software at Best Buy generally wont apply for them.
I have considered buying a mac at home..but havent.
My wife is a graphic design student...but she works on my dual monitored dual cpu'd wintel..and is perfectly happy. And she knows she can send word documents to almost anyone, same with excel...all because most people have them.
What would she do if she had a mac ?
I really dont know..but I am sure one of you will tell me how easy it is LOL.
Although...whether Cisco, nortel etc fall..it doesnt affect me. I get paid by the hour..and I sell whatever is the best solution at the time. life goes on for me as a reseller.
Although I do more programming than anything.
I admit microsoft has not be as moral and ethical as they should be. And maybe they have actually "stolen" concepts and ideas. But its all busines for microsoft, the money they have made..minus legal fees, fines, penalties etc..still leaves them with a nice profit.
Heck..they get free marketing and advertising from their legal troubles..if you really think about it.
I will agree that Mac and mac users are not like microsoft and gates. But you should agree I am neither of those two entities (gates or microsoft). I only got into this for the market share issues..and somehow got into mac vs. pc.
The world could not survive with just macs. The wintels and technologies being used on them are needed.
I agree..that home users could use macs..and be happy.
Happy until they want to take the documents from work HOME to work on. Or vica versa. Or until they easily want to share files with their neighbors. There are a lot of compatiblity issues with all of that. So its not such an easy choice to go to "macs at home." And that is what stops many people I am sure. Then to convince them to pay more for their system. And...to accept that the software at Best Buy generally wont apply for them.
I have considered buying a mac at home..but havent.
My wife is a graphic design student...but she works on my dual monitored dual cpu'd wintel..and is perfectly happy. And she knows she can send word documents to almost anyone, same with excel...all because most people have them.
What would she do if she had a mac ?
I really dont know..but I am sure one of you will tell me how easy it is LOL.
Re: Wintel
Wait a minute...i have a problem with that.
What is it about a person not knowing about Mac that makes them "close minded?"
If mac wants to sell more systems..they need to "open the minds" as you would say. Most people wont go investigate ALL OF THE OPTIONS, much in the same way you wouldnt with anything else you buy. In a dream world we could all read consumer reports on every product we buy..etc etc..but in reality we are all influenced by advertising, word of mouth..etc etc.
Heck..just like comcast cable gives a consumer a free month if you sign up a friend...Mac should give you all a rebate for pushing their systems. You get a free this or that..or a gift certificate to use at http://www.macworld.com or something.
But either way..if you dont know about macs..you are not ness. "closed minded."
Wait a minute...i have a problem with that.
What is it about a person not knowing about Mac that makes them "close minded?"
If mac wants to sell more systems..they need to "open the minds" as you would say. Most people wont go investigate ALL OF THE OPTIONS, much in the same way you wouldnt with anything else you buy. In a dream world we could all read consumer reports on every product we buy..etc etc..but in reality we are all influenced by advertising, word of mouth..etc etc.
Heck..just like comcast cable gives a consumer a free month if you sign up a friend...Mac should give you all a rebate for pushing their systems. You get a free this or that..or a gift certificate to use at http://www.macworld.com or something.
But either way..if you dont know about macs..you are not ness. "closed minded."
the world did just fine with mostly only apple based machines from 1975 to 1981 (approx)
today the world would be happier if apple increased their share and i bet if you bought your wife an imac or G4 she would like it very much, in time though once whe learns her way around os x and stuff
when she goes out into the graphic design world, my wife also is a graphic designer, she will come in contact with macs more likely than pcs
pcs get the graphics jobs done, but macs do it slightly faster and with more flair
if you can add it to your christmas list, give your wife a mac
today the world would be happier if apple increased their share and i bet if you bought your wife an imac or G4 she would like it very much, in time though once whe learns her way around os x and stuff
when she goes out into the graphic design world, my wife also is a graphic designer, she will come in contact with macs more likely than pcs
pcs get the graphics jobs done, but macs do it slightly faster and with more flair
if you can add it to your christmas list, give your wife a mac
closed minded
No--closed minded is more like it.
See what happens if you ever suggest a mac solution to someone's computer needs. They will wave their arms and say, "Nope--nope nope. Not Apple. Anything but that." Just ask any CompUSA employee. People wont even try to investigate Apple options, and where I come from, thats called closed-minded.
No--closed minded is more like it.
See what happens if you ever suggest a mac solution to someone's computer needs. They will wave their arms and say, "Nope--nope nope. Not Apple. Anything but that." Just ask any CompUSA employee. People wont even try to investigate Apple options, and where I come from, thats called closed-minded.
jef..actually I have tried to...buy her one. More so because i want one to play with. but she doesnt want it.
I would have to have the know how to convince her of the benefits..but she has no problems accomplishing her task on the Wintel...hence she feels no need to switch. And she does other things on the wintel she would have to give up, or change. We both love Age of Empires, which i think is on the mac..but we also love Star Wars Galatic Battleground which I dont think is.
But..I have already talked to my cousin steve today...and told him I am going to buy one or two.
I would like to have a workstation and a server just to play with and see what it is all about.
So if it was 25 million macs..soon it will be +2.
Then I will come back and talk MORE intelligently about what you can and cant do on a mac.
I would have to have the know how to convince her of the benefits..but she has no problems accomplishing her task on the Wintel...hence she feels no need to switch. And she does other things on the wintel she would have to give up, or change. We both love Age of Empires, which i think is on the mac..but we also love Star Wars Galatic Battleground which I dont think is.
But..I have already talked to my cousin steve today...and told him I am going to buy one or two.
I would like to have a workstation and a server just to play with and see what it is all about.
So if it was 25 million macs..soon it will be +2.
Then I will come back and talk MORE intelligently about what you can and cant do on a mac.
PC file sharing
Oh, and one more thing. Transfering files from Mac to PC is no prob. Any mac file (MS Word, Illustrator, Photoshop, even Maya files, OBJ) will transfer to its corresponding PC app without a hitch. I could send you a mac MS Word '.doc' right now, and you could open it with your PC version of Word. I do it all the time.
Oh, and one more thing. Transfering files from Mac to PC is no prob. Any mac file (MS Word, Illustrator, Photoshop, even Maya files, OBJ) will transfer to its corresponding PC app without a hitch. I could send you a mac MS Word '.doc' right now, and you could open it with your PC version of Word. I do it all the time.
Apple's Fault
To a certain extent, I do as well. But people still have minds of their own, and should investigate options just like if they were buying a car. But then again, there are still people who will only buy a chevy, only vote republican or democrat, and sue a cigarette company for giving them cancer.
To a certain extent, I do as well. But people still have minds of their own, and should investigate options just like if they were buying a car. But then again, there are still people who will only buy a chevy, only vote republican or democrat, and sue a cigarette company for giving them cancer.
Re: PC file sharing
Then a mac in my house I will buy.
But..just for the record. I already figured that was the case..and I know macs are GREAT systems.
And just because I buy one or two..doesnt mean I will change my mind about the market share issues.
I am sure..like every peice of technology I own. I will love a mac..as i do my wintels.
For example.
Imagine...4 21" monitors....four SEPERATE resolutions. Televesion window that can be dragged in any or all screens...any size. Same with DVD. Great Audio..surround sound. Wireless trackball mouse..keyboard. All on mirrored drives. Two 40 gig mirrored sets. hot swap bays. All ide so it runs warm..not HOT.
Star Wars Galactic Battlegrounds running on one window. Tv on another. Email/internet on another....and one is just free of windows.
and..it almost seems to accomplish the task BEFORE you actually tell it to !
Then a mac in my house I will buy.
But..just for the record. I already figured that was the case..and I know macs are GREAT systems.
And just because I buy one or two..doesnt mean I will change my mind about the market share issues.
I am sure..like every peice of technology I own. I will love a mac..as i do my wintels.
For example.
Imagine...4 21" monitors....four SEPERATE resolutions. Televesion window that can be dragged in any or all screens...any size. Same with DVD. Great Audio..surround sound. Wireless trackball mouse..keyboard. All on mirrored drives. Two 40 gig mirrored sets. hot swap bays. All ide so it runs warm..not HOT.
Star Wars Galactic Battlegrounds running on one window. Tv on another. Email/internet on another....and one is just free of windows.
and..it almost seems to accomplish the task BEFORE you actually tell it to !
re: close minded
i know apple changed their name from apple computer to just "apple"
apple solutions will come to mean a lot more in the future...gaming, mp3 players, pdas, cell phones, maybe networking, and who knows...personal transportation vehicles
apple sunk in many millions in segway for those you you who don't know and that is very exciting...sorry i missed the southpark cartoon!
apple could one day be like sony making and selling records, tv sets, radios, and movies...sony is steve job's role model like he has mentioned many times in the past four years
imagine an apple metreon complex with pixar movies showing and scooting around in apple scooters!
i would be the first in line for any of those products if apple made or supported them and i would even buy apple apples once the environmentalists tear down silicon valley and make it a bunch of apple orchards once again
go apple inc!
i know apple changed their name from apple computer to just "apple"
apple solutions will come to mean a lot more in the future...gaming, mp3 players, pdas, cell phones, maybe networking, and who knows...personal transportation vehicles
apple sunk in many millions in segway for those you you who don't know and that is very exciting...sorry i missed the southpark cartoon!
apple could one day be like sony making and selling records, tv sets, radios, and movies...sony is steve job's role model like he has mentioned many times in the past four years
imagine an apple metreon complex with pixar movies showing and scooting around in apple scooters!
i would be the first in line for any of those products if apple made or supported them and i would even buy apple apples once the environmentalists tear down silicon valley and make it a bunch of apple orchards once again
go apple inc!
Well i LOVE sony products...so I share his choice of role models. I love sony, the company, the products etc.
My uncle has a sony shop...but i would pay full price for their products ! But..unlike Apple...they have a handle on the marketing.
Apple needs to open the close minds that greenstr says are out there. I still disagree with him, but either way if Apple doesnt open the minds..no one will open enough of them to matter.
My uncle has a sony shop...but i would pay full price for their products ! But..unlike Apple...they have a handle on the marketing.
Apple needs to open the close minds that greenstr says are out there. I still disagree with him, but either way if Apple doesnt open the minds..no one will open enough of them to matter.
Close Minds
I think you, JusttheFacts, are one of a few PC people who do consider Apple a viable consideration when purchasing computers. But you arent also the typical consumer. You have a passion for electronics, computers, etc. You buy hard just to play around with it, and have many computers in their home. But they typical consumer has one computer. (laptop or desktop) And yes, 95 percent of the people I know wouldnt even consider an Apple, either because it never even crosses their mind, or they think its weird.
Out of a consumer behavior class my fiance is in, one person knew what an Apple computer was (my fiance), and the prevalent question was (from the other 39 or so people) "Does it run windows?" and "Arent they really slow?" I wish I could say that people werent closed-minded, but they simply are. No one knows, and no one wants to know.
I think you, JusttheFacts, are one of a few PC people who do consider Apple a viable consideration when purchasing computers. But you arent also the typical consumer. You have a passion for electronics, computers, etc. You buy hard just to play around with it, and have many computers in their home. But they typical consumer has one computer. (laptop or desktop) And yes, 95 percent of the people I know wouldnt even consider an Apple, either because it never even crosses their mind, or they think its weird.
Out of a consumer behavior class my fiance is in, one person knew what an Apple computer was (my fiance), and the prevalent question was (from the other 39 or so people) "Does it run windows?" and "Arent they really slow?" I wish I could say that people werent closed-minded, but they simply are. No one knows, and no one wants to know.
apple stores are a way to open minds
right after i saw a sony metreon store, i saw the first apple store on apple.com site
steve is taking the metreon layout into his own store and is taking good marketing ideas from watching sony
in no time, there will be a starbucks and cool cafes in an apple store as well as other types of mechandise...if all goes well in the next few years
the metreon superstore idea has been in japan since the 70s and when i visited tokyo as a kid, there were many theme stores and now the USA is catching up with apple in the lead
right after i saw a sony metreon store, i saw the first apple store on apple.com site
steve is taking the metreon layout into his own store and is taking good marketing ideas from watching sony
in no time, there will be a starbucks and cool cafes in an apple store as well as other types of mechandise...if all goes well in the next few years
the metreon superstore idea has been in japan since the 70s and when i visited tokyo as a kid, there were many theme stores and now the USA is catching up with apple in the lead
Re: Close Minds
Hmmm..perhaps you are correct. And yes you are right about my passion for electronics. I have enough computer stuff to run a few mom and pop shops, but that is my business so it makes sense.
As to no one knowing....well...that is not closed minded.
Much like the FIRST cd writer that come out..no one knew...marketing kicked in...people found out...people bought.
Apple needs to approach the market like they were a new product..then maybe at the end of the ads make some mention of their history.
But..either way..its all in apples lap..court..whatever. The hand is theirs to play.
Hmmm..perhaps you are correct. And yes you are right about my passion for electronics. I have enough computer stuff to run a few mom and pop shops, but that is my business so it makes sense.
As to no one knowing....well...that is not closed minded.
Much like the FIRST cd writer that come out..no one knew...marketing kicked in...people found out...people bought.
Apple needs to approach the market like they were a new product..then maybe at the end of the ads make some mention of their history.
But..either way..its all in apples lap..court..whatever. The hand is theirs to play.
re: consumer behavior
as you will notice, consumer-wise that is, more than half of all americans do not own a computer (2000 census)
more than half...and that is just america we are talking about
it is called the "digital divide" (newt gingrich, former speaker of of house of repesentatives, USA)
and if your fiancee is a business major, she will not come in contact with many macs but if she was a graphic design major, other students would say about pcs:
aren't they strange?
aren't they slow?
etc.
as you will notice, consumer-wise that is, more than half of all americans do not own a computer (2000 census)
more than half...and that is just america we are talking about
it is called the "digital divide" (newt gingrich, former speaker of of house of repesentatives, USA)
and if your fiancee is a business major, she will not come in contact with many macs but if she was a graphic design major, other students would say about pcs:
aren't they strange?
aren't they slow?
etc.
Apple
Agreed. I think we are all kinda saying the same thing. --Apple's marketing, despite how cool, sucks.
Hey, its CA fever, baby. If it looks cool, then its cool. But they need to realize that cool doesnt always sell. Just like someone mentioned earlier, the Delorean was a sweet car, but didnt make it because 'cool' wasnt enough to keep it on the lots. Apple needs to realize that they can make great stuff, and make cool commercials, but their marketing doesnt work. They should advertise the hell out of their products, just like they advertised the hell out of Monsters Inc. (another Steve Jobs project, well-sort of) Dont just sell "cool" but sell, "hey, these things work easier than PC's, do the same things your PC's do with the same programs, but in a cool, faster way." And yes, keep the Apple stores coming! I hope they do the trick. They ought expand into the midwest more. We have three Best Buy's, two Circuit Cities, and more PC stores I can count in my city, but no Apple store. Hell, even WalMart carries all PC stuff.
Agreed. I think we are all kinda saying the same thing. --Apple's marketing, despite how cool, sucks.
Hey, its CA fever, baby. If it looks cool, then its cool. But they need to realize that cool doesnt always sell. Just like someone mentioned earlier, the Delorean was a sweet car, but didnt make it because 'cool' wasnt enough to keep it on the lots. Apple needs to realize that they can make great stuff, and make cool commercials, but their marketing doesnt work. They should advertise the hell out of their products, just like they advertised the hell out of Monsters Inc. (another Steve Jobs project, well-sort of) Dont just sell "cool" but sell, "hey, these things work easier than PC's, do the same things your PC's do with the same programs, but in a cool, faster way." And yes, keep the Apple stores coming! I hope they do the trick. They ought expand into the midwest more. We have three Best Buy's, two Circuit Cities, and more PC stores I can count in my city, but no Apple store. Hell, even WalMart carries all PC stuff.
Business Majors
Thats just the problem. Business majors dont know much about Apple, which is understandable. But now, our computer art lab (same school) has half PC's, half Macs, and half SGI's (UNIX/3D animation). You'd better believe that ALL the art students have used both, and respect both. But the business majors only know one world. PC's. Closed-minded or not, (lets leave that arguement alone--for now) they just dont know what they are!?! There used to be a true divide (50-50) between art and business majors in regards to PC and Apple usage. Now, its more like 75-25.
Thats just the problem. Business majors dont know much about Apple, which is understandable. But now, our computer art lab (same school) has half PC's, half Macs, and half SGI's (UNIX/3D animation). You'd better believe that ALL the art students have used both, and respect both. But the business majors only know one world. PC's. Closed-minded or not, (lets leave that arguement alone--for now) they just dont know what they are!?! There used to be a true divide (50-50) between art and business majors in regards to PC and Apple usage. Now, its more like 75-25.