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I’m sure the phones can be on non-5G plans, and that carriers without 5G would let you use another plan, but my question is if the likes of Verizon, ATT, T-Mobile, etc. will arbitrarily force us into 5G plans to have a plan on their network. If I recall there was some forced push to 4G with a past iPhone (4 I think)

Even if my carrier supports 5G, I just have no interest in paying more per month and where I’m at 4G-LTE is getting better service anyways.
I see your argument. But, looking at it from my position, I'd say not a hope of the carrier doing so.

We are not going to get 5G for ages yet. The idea that they'd charge me more when I can't even use 5G would have me rushing to change carrier. If in, say, three years 5G does arrive, I can't see them upping the cost just because my phone has the technical capability of using 5G. (Though there is an outside possibility they could add a cost for actually using 5G.)
 
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Much better phones for a lot less money. Apple putting out the most expensive iPhones in the middle of a worldwide pandemic are being very foolish. Their greed and arrogance have overcome them and they will find out their hard way they have made a foolish decision.
Why is it foolish? It will sell very well overall. If people want the phones they will buy them.. There is a phone for different price points.. All the way from £399 to likely £699 to £1300
 
Much better phones for a lot less money. Apple putting out the most expensive iPhones in the middle of a worldwide pandemic are being very foolish. Their greed and arrogance have overcome them and they will find out their hard way they have made a foolish decision.
Apple didn’t get to be a $2T by making basic mistakes of not manufacturing product their target demographics want. So I agree subjectively there are better phones for an individual than an iPhone. Apple is not looking for those demographics nor are they crying over “spilled milk”.

Seems like they have found out the hard way of what works.
 
Look, I've got an important reason to possibly get one... If any of the tech shills on Youtube tell us how amazing it is, I'll just have to get it.

Actually all depends on the size of the first Apple Silicon Mac. If it's 13 or above then I'll grab that and forego the phone.
This is precisely the problem with Lightning, though. It means you need an extra cable for all those accessories and your phone. I should be able to use the same cable for all my Apple devices. All new iPad models have USB-C, and all MacBooks have had USB-C since 2016. The only devices left with Lightning are iPhones and random accessories. They all need USB-C, and they need it now. Sick of this bullshiz.
I don’t think the iPhone will ever use a USB, after they end the lightening connector, I expect them to go with no connector...
 
I see your argument. But, looking at it from my position, I'd say not a hope of the carrier doing so.

We are not going to get 5G for ages yet. The idea that they'd charge me more when I can't even use 5G would have me rushing to change carrier. If in, say, three years 5G does arrive, I can't see them upping the cost just because my phone has the technical capability of using 5G. (Though there is an outside possibility they could add a cost for actually using 5G.)
T-Mobile won’t charge more for 5G. Version I hear plans to add a $10 monthly fee... ATT, I don’t know, I’m sure one can google it.
 
Why is it foolish? It will sell very well overall. If people want the phones they will buy them.. There is a phone for different price points.. All the way from £399 to likely £699 to £1300
We won’t know the true success of iPhone 12 until maybe about Spring going into summer. If you start seeing a lot of Twitter and instagram selfies with the new phone, then that means its doing well. If you are still seeing iPhone 11s and iPhone X series, then, it likely means, even the narcissist aren’t convinced.
 
I don’t think the iPhone will ever use a USB, after they end the lightening connector, I expect them to go with no connector...
Will we be expected to carry a charger around with us? One that takes from vehicle power, mains, USB (A or C) and outputs whatever fields are required for wireless charging? (Worse to have to carry four chargers with us!)

The obvious answer is to embed a wireless charger into phone cases. So the case has the USB-C socket - or even USB-A and USB-C - and the phone itself has no sockets.

I need a new home charger (my existing multi-socket USB-A charger just stopped working the other day). Will wait another few hours before deciding which way to jump.
 
Masks won’t be temporary because people keep acting like they are a burden they shouldn’t have to deal with.If everyone would wear a mask correctly, and handle it correctly (don’t touch the outside of you mask or wash you hands after doing so) than maybe this will be temporary.
Well, they are a burden that they shouldn't have to deal with, and it is unrealistic to expect people to "do it correctly".

To pretend like it's as simple as "if only people would do x this would be over" is peak arrogance and is the kind of nonsense that is used to polarize people against others who know that reality is far more nuanced than that.
 
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Well, they are a burden that they shouldn't have to deal with, and it is unrealistic to expect people to "do it correctly".

To pretend like it's as simple as "if only people would do x this would be over" is peak arrogance and is the kind of nonsense that is used to polarize people against others who know that reality is far more nuanced than that.

No. LOL. It’s not unreasonable. Asking people to cover their nose and mouth is a lot easier than having to people to chew with their mouth closed, was their hands with soap, not touch strangers without permission, cover their face when they sneeze, flush, shower regularly, avoid going in public for no reason.

Either people can choose to do it correctly or they can choose to be regulated into the grave. It would be a shame to have to forcesomeone to do something they should already be doing.
 
If I can’t get a nice telephoto lens on the mini, I’d rather just get a bumpless wide angle than some big protruding square with two wide angle lenses.
Seriously can't express enough frustration about the "size = quality" idea Apple can't seem to get away from. I get why they do it, but it's so lazy. It's the same with automakers only offering standard transmissions in bare-bones base models that don't even have CarPlay. I want a manual therefore I don't want a nice car? I want a small phone, therefore I must want a non-premium phone? Ridiculous. At least we have the regular Pro, but it is honestly kind of an awkward size. Almost too big for one-handed, but too small to comfortably two-hand.
 
Seriously can't express enough frustration about the "size = quality" idea Apple can't seem to get away from. I get why they do it, but it's so lazy. It's the same with automakers only offering standard transmissions in bare-bones base models that don't even have CarPlay. I want a manual therefore I don't want a nice car? I want a small phone, therefore I must want a non-premium phone? Ridiculous. At least we have the regular Pro, but it is honestly kind of an awkward size. Almost too big for one-handed, but too small to comfortably two-hand.
For at least some things, a larger device gives more space so allows higher specs. Trying to fit four large cameras and a four-day battery in the smallest device could well simply be an impossibility. :)

I'd invert your argument and suggest a bare-bones Max. At correspondingly lower price. One of the particular groups who might appreciate them is those with impaired vision. If you only want, even need, the size so you stand a chance of reading the screen, seems ridiculous to have to pay for the extra spec. level of the Max.
 
Aw that sucks so 5g won’t be worth it in the uk then

Depends what the real life experience is? If it is anything like what was promised for 4g, I won’t bother upgrading. There is a worry iPhone 12 won’t support 700mhz, as a result only three in the UK has amp 700MHz coverage:(
 
No. LOL. It’s not unreasonable. Asking people to cover their nose and mouth is a lot easier than having to people to chew with their mouth closed, was their hands with soap, not touch strangers without permission, cover their face when they sneeze, flush, shower regularly, avoid going in public for no reason.

Either people can choose to do it correctly or they can choose to be regulated into the grave. It would be a shame to have to forcesomeone to do something they should already be doing.
Hmm, no. Wearing worthless cloth masks for daily activities is not practical. At all. To suggest otherwise is bizarre. Also to suggest 'the grave' is the other option shows a complete lack of understanding or knowledge.

Carry on.
 
Hmm, no. Wearing worthless cloth masks for daily activities is not practical. At all. To suggest otherwise is bizarre. Also to suggest 'the grave' is the other option shows a complete lack of understanding or knowledge.

Carry on.

Your medical degree included a lecture on how barriers don't reduce fomite exposure?
 
For at least some things, a larger device gives more space so allows higher specs. Trying to fit four large cameras and a four-day battery in the smallest device could well simply be an impossibility. :)

I'd invert your argument and suggest a bare-bones Max. At correspondingly lower price. One of the particular groups who might appreciate them is those with impaired vision. If you only want, even need, the size so you stand a chance of reading the screen, seems ridiculous to have to pay for the extra spec. level of the Max.
I agree that the size = internal space would apply to some things, but none of that applies to these phones. Their batteries are able to grow with size to power the larger screen, and everything else is on the same PCB. This is especially true of the Pro/Max. There is no reason beyond a marketing decision to not put the identical camera module from the Max into the Pro.

Also, yes, the inverse is also definitely true. They are also really twisting the knife by including 100% of 12 features in the Mini, but then stripping a major camera improvement out of the Pro. Did they learn what customers want, or not???
 
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You do realize that the medical professionals that have written extensively about why masks are largely ineffective for the population as a whole are well aware of this basic concept of "barrier equals protection", yes? This isn't lost on anyone. Unfortunately reality is more nuanced. It always is. Now pardon me while I put my mask back on anyway.

Correct. Wearing masks properly has value over not wearing them correctly. Good. So now that we are no longer discussing the value of masks, we can get back to the point. If people wore their masks like they were asked than than we would be in far better shape than we are. It's not unreasonable to ask adults to put the good of other ahead of their own mild discomfort. The problem isn't that they are not 100% effective. The problem is that people treat that as an excuse to do whatever they feel like.
 
Correct. Wearing masks properly has value over not wearing them correctly. Good. So now that we are no longer discussing the value of masks, we can get back to the point. If people wore their masks like they were asked than than we would be in far better shape than we are. It's not unreasonable to ask adults to put the good of other ahead of their own mild discomfort. The problem isn't that they are not 100% effective. The problem is that people treat that as an excuse to do whatever they feel like.
Nope, we would not. It isn't that simple, not even close.
 
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