Fundamental Misunderstanding what AVP is

[Kierkegaarden]

Interesting read. I know productivity will be a big use case, but entertainment is definitely a focus. I wonder if TV+ has been laying the foundation for this all along.

Apple CEO Tim Cook and NBA Commissioner Adam Silver Talk Vision Pro: “This Changes Everything”

The Hollywood Reporter tagged along on Vision Pro release day as Cook met with Silver and toured the NBA league office.

www.hollywoodreporter.com

 

[turbineseaplane]

Interesting read. I know productivity will be a big use case, but entertainment is definitely a focus. I wonder if TV+ has been laying the foundation for this all along.

Apple CEO Tim Cook and NBA Commissioner Adam Silver Talk Vision Pro: “This Changes Everything”

The Hollywood Reporter tagged along on Vision Pro release day as Cook met with Silver and toured the NBA league office.

www.hollywoodreporter.com

Maybe AVP can make mid season NBA actually watchable?

 

[dotnet]

That isn’t how the markets work.

If only Tim Cook knew how the markets work. He could have turned Apple into a successful little business.

 

[Surf Monkey]

If only Tim Cook knew how the markets work. He could have turned Apple into a successful little business.

Again: is it all about dollars? Just counting up beans? The company with the biggest pile wins? Are there other metrics of success and failure? I guess not.

 

[Surf Monkey]

Interesting read. I know productivity will be a big use case, but entertainment is definitely a focus. I wonder if TV+ has been laying the foundation for this all along.

Apple CEO Tim Cook and NBA Commissioner Adam Silver Talk Vision Pro: “This Changes Everything”

The Hollywood Reporter tagged along on Vision Pro release day as Cook met with Silver and toured the NBA league office.

www.hollywoodreporter.com

The NBA already charges an arm and a leg for simple linear broadcast. Like all media streaming companies I’m sure the NBA is suffering from subscriber shrinkage and no doubt took a big hit on PPV when cable died. So they need a new revenue stream. And because Apple is involved they’ll position it as an ultra premium service and charge even more than their egregiously high streaming subscriptions already cost. Complete with blackouts for your local team!

So, yeah. These two can hype up the NBA/Apple connection until they’re blue in the face but it remains to be seen what they intend to do, how much they intend to charge and whether anyone actually wants to watch games in a headset that can’t be shared. No spreading around the cost between friends with Vision. Each person has to pay full price.

Getting the image yet? Apple’s vision for Vision is as a services platform that will require subscriptions. More expensive ones than you already pay for.

 

[Realityck]

Interesting read. I know productivity will be a big use case, but entertainment is definitely a focus. I wonder if TV+ has been laying the foundation for this all along.

Apple CEO Tim Cook and NBA Commissioner Adam Silver Talk Vision Pro: “This Changes Everything”

The Hollywood Reporter tagged along on Vision Pro release day as Cook met with Silver and toured the NBA league office.

www.hollywoodreporter.com

It was widely discussed 6 years ago that 3D headsets could be marketed towards sports fans that traditionally spend a lot of money on sporting event tickets. But note in this market Apple is not the cheapest way to watch 2K sports.

Examples from Oculus VR in 2018

2023 Meta Quest

 

[Surf Monkey]

Speaking of sports:

“This year’s Super Bowl still remains the most expensive on record, with the average purchase price currently at $9,850 — 70% more than the average purchase price of last year’s big game.” - CNN

So I’d fully expect the NFL to charge somewhere near that for the Vision experience of the game.

 

[Realityck]

Speaking of sports:

“This year’s Super Bowl still remains the most expensive on record, with the average purchase price currently at $9,850 — 70% more than the average purchase price of last year’s big game.” - CNN

So I’d fully expect the NFL to charge somewhere near that for the Vision experience of the game.

Back in Feb 7th 2016 NHK arranged for a satellite livestream of a 8K Super Bowl.

Nevion, award-winning provider of virtual media production infrastructure, has announced its Flashlink DWDM optical transmitter was used by Japanese state broadcaster NHK in its 8K transmission of Super Bowl 50.

The event was filmed by NHK using six 8K cameras around the stadium, which was part of a larger 8K outside broadcast (OB) unit. While the footage was not broadcast live over the air — it was only viewable in the compound at the stadium and at NHK headquarters — it was shown on 8 February at a public viewing at the broadcaster’s offices in Japan.

But even though you can readily receive live stream 2K and 4K sports, with 4K being somewhat rare. 3D is still stuck with 2K. I guess the AVP could upscale the 3D 2K content for each eye, but its not 4K AFAIK.

 

[dotnet]

Again: is it all about dollars?

I’m asking you. You brought up the “how the markets work” spiel.

 

[heretiq]

If only Tim Cook knew how the markets work. He could have turned Apple into a successful little business.

Nice! Love the humor. 😂

 

[AirpodsNow]

I am pretty surprised at the seemingly muted reaction to the Vision Pro being used in public.

There are VERY few things a person can do in NYC to make New Yorkers look up and pay any attention whatsoever.

Well, whatever the case, there were sort of positive reactions that people were interested. I think the YouTuber also had the right chill reaction and let people try which had a very nice energy to it. I guess this helped and he could as well wore anything and might get the same kind experience.

It doesn't take away as well that it feels less weird for this particular person to run around with it, and I would assume if we see more of these photos, videos and perhaps in real life, that we feel less embarrassed ourselves to use it in the plane or train where some people were more concerned about.

In the long run with some people using it just in public while walking around, the more it become mainstream, or at least, less abnormal for lots of us. This is all a plus for AVP, and perhaps a loss for people's focused attention to traffic and their surroundings. I also wonder when we hear the first incident of people getting mugged, which was oh so common in the early iPhone days....

 

[Audentia]

Nope. Constructive criticism is always welcome. What distinguishes a hater is the plethora of negative opinions voiced as facts, obnoxious name calling, unwillingness to actually engage in real dialog, and the need to put down people that do purchases the AVP. It's all in the language and context. It's not hard to miss. But you knew this.

The reason for it still eludes me.

Anyway, like I said, I have enjoyed the comments from people that have actually used the AVP (there are free demos now) and have concerns or questions. The AVP is definitely a first gen device with rough edges. It's not for everyone. But for those that don't mind the rough edges, it can be rewarding.

THIS is exactly it. well said.

 

[Surf Monkey]

I’m asking you. You brought up the “how the markets work” spiel.

No, you brought up markets as a metric of overall success. I’m suggesting that market cap isn’t necessarily the only metric available for assessing a company’s success or failure. Pretty sure you already knew that though.

 

[AlumaMac]

No, you brought up markets as a metric of overall success. I’m suggesting that market cap isn’t necessarily the only metric available for assessing a company’s success or failure. Pretty sure you already knew that though.

Exactly, would any Apple evangelist think that Microsoft’s market cap was a direct reflection of their ability to create amazing products??

 

[dotnet]

No, you brought up markets as a metric of overall success.

Sorry, but I did not. I had not used the word market(s) or anything related to it until I quoted you.

But nevermind, everybody here knows that you’re rooting for Apple to fail big time. That’s ok, it’s just not as entertaining anymore as it used to be.

 

[Surf Monkey]

Sorry, but I did not. I had not used the word market(s) or anything related to it until I quoted you.

No, but you’ve taken it upon yourself to defend this:

Odd concept, I know, but has it ever crossed your mind that enviable profits and market share are not Apple’s goals — but are actually the market rewarding Tim Cook’s Apple for doing important and difficult things not only well, but significantly better than others?

So don’t play dumb. You know I didn’t being this up.

But nevermind, everybody here knows that you’re rooting for Apple to fail big time. That’s ok, it’s just not as entertaining anymore as it used to be.

Right. I’m just an irrational hater. Strong rebuttal.

 

[okieoutwest]

but what you think matters more? Who made you the expert?

contact lenses, I don't know enough about bio or nano engineering, maybe neuralink device makes more sense. Glasses though, definitely happening.

I didn’t say what I think matters more than what you think. I said what you think doesn’t matter relative to the immovable limits of physics.

I’m all for hoping new and interesting innovation in the world of computing tech is possible. But it’s really tough to do that and have reasonable discussions about it if some people like you on this forum just don’t understand - or aren’t willing to accept what you might not know - about fundamental aspects of what’s within bounds to dream about and what’s not.

It would be like insisting the AVP could eventually facilitate time travel, “just give Apple 5-10 years!” So, no disrespect here: my comment was trying to point out that one of the things you want literally cannot happen.

 

[heretiq]

Exactly, would any Apple evangelist think that Microsoft’s market cap was a direct reflection of their ability to create amazing products??

Outsize market cap, market share and profits *result* from many people (i.e., the market which includes investors and consumers) choosing your product in greater proportion to alternatives and being willing to pay a significant premium (higher than average price) for your stock and your product.

This is the direct result of building great products because no amount of marketing can make a crappy product deliver the great experiences required to move markets in this way. This is exactly what Apple has done and the markets have rewarded them accordingly.

And yes, as an Apple Evangelist I acknowledge that Microsoft’s market cap is a reflection of their ability to create great products for their target markets. Why do you think that is difficult to admit? Apple Evangelist does not equal Troll.

 

[Abazigal]

Exactly, would any Apple evangelist think that Microsoft’s market cap was a direct reflection of their ability to create amazing products??

I would say that Microsoft's focus predisposed them towards success in the enterprise market, at the expense of the mass consumer market. For example, Microsoft has to be willing to support windows for extraordinarily long periods of time in order for companies to trust them, while Apple is able to change technology stacks quickly (eg: 64-bit arm and Apple Silicon) precisely because they don't have to worry about pissing off their enterprise customers.

At the same time, they do have a pretty impressive ecosystem of software, from Office to OneDrive to outlook to Teams to Skype that forms a pretty formidable moat that locks users in. For example, I gave up my dropbox subscription because I was getting 1tb of OneDrive storage as part of my office subscription and it's neat being able to open office documents from OneDrive in my browser directly in the office application of my choice (ie: a word document can be opened directly in word and changes synced directly back to OneDrive, but with dropbox, I had to download it first, and then upload it again after changes were made).

The problem is that Microsoft has not been able to leverage on their dominance in the enterprise market to prop up their other divisions such as their surface line of products or windows phone. They are just not a hardware company, and it shows.

So yeah, I would say that Microsoft is probably amazing for companies, but at the same time, as a personal user, I just don't care for what Microsoft has to offer, and that's why I use a Mac.

 

[G5isAlive]

I think there’s a fundamental misunderstanding of what AVP is.

So many reviewers are making comparisons to other headsets like Oculus or PSVR. And in my ways, I don’t think that’s a relevant comparison. Sure some of the technology has parallels, but the purpose of AVP is very different.

Here’s a tangible examples of what I was doing last night. My cat was in a mood to play with me and some toys last night. I had a YouTube video playing via Juno (first party app not available yet) and placed it right next to our play area so I can see her and the video at the same time. In other adjacent areas, I had messages open to check some things and a browser in another area for an article I was reading. No monitor, no device to hold, and hands free.

Yes it’s a great media consumption device with amazing immersion. It can do a lot of things. The true power though IMO is it’s actually a computer with the ability to multitask without the constraint of one screen like an iPad. There’s a lot of improvements to be made for sure. But I think it’s an amazing gen 1, and I’m sure they will make lots of software improvements even in the next 3-6 months.

What are your thoughts?

I want to thank you again for starting this thread... hope all the haters didn't cause you to stop sharing. The more and more I use it, (lost track of the hours logged, I think somewhere around 17) the more I appreciate the freedom it brings to me, to have and move multiple discrete windows. At my offices (yes plural) I keep multiple screen set ups (at least 2, three is my preferred number) and thats just how I like to organize my work, across monitors. With the APV my office follows me wherever I am. Email, internet, Word, it's all there. I typically have 4 windows open, stack one up higher in front of me. I should say I often use a bluebooth keyboard. Prior to the APV my content consuming device was often an iPad. I like being able to carry it around. But I never got used to the fact it was essentially one window. All the ways to try to make it more, were like work arounds to me. sure you could split the screen, but it wasn't the same. So I would be reading a MR article or maybe comment, click on a link, and boom, be out of MR. Now, with APV, click on the link and it pops up as a separate window for me to place and now I have both the article and the background floating in front of me. Yes its expensive, Yes it is Gen 1 with some rough spots and gaps, but it has enough value for me to keep on enjoying it.

 

[turbineseaplane]

hope all the haters didn't cause you to stop sharing.

There's no need to mention, or even hint at, "others on the forum"

Just share your thoughts and engage on topics and don't target comments "at people" (or groups of people)

 

[subjonas]

Who is trying to convince anyone that "it's useless for everyone"? I haven't seen posts like that. I've seen people question AVP's utility. I've seen people question the price. I've seen people suggest the price is outrageous. I've seen people question the need for such a product. I've seen people argue that the product is underwhelming and disappointing. But I haven't seen anyone trying to convince others that AVP is "useless".

This is the problem with our social media-fueled era of narcissistic entitlement. Any kind of criticism or disagreement is now viewed as a personal attack. So many people these days act as if they are entitled to a life where their every action and opinion is rubber-stamped by everyone around them. Any difference of opinion is now a personal attack.

What I see on these forums is Vision Pro enthusiasts repeatedly taking personal offense at any criticism of the device. I don't see anyone attacking Vision Pro buyers or trying to convince them not to buy the device. I see people stating opinions that Vision Pro fans don't like and those fans getting defensive. Most of us are here to discuss and debate Apple and technology in general. A few of us want these forums to be a cheerleading echo chamber where dissent = personal attack.

There are posts from people in these forums (can’t remember if in this thread specifically) making blanket statements that the VP solves no problems, no one needs it, etc., as well as mocking people who put the VP in a positive light (usually with the “laugh” reaction). I could go looking through the forum if you’d like reference, but 1) I don’t like to “out” individuals, and 2) I’d think this is something we can all acknowledge. Because let’s face it, we all know there are plenty of people here (and everywhere) who are unable to distinguish their subjective opinion from objective fact, and like to speak on behalf of all people—and this is regardless of being for or against the VP, or any other product or issue for that matter. It’s just how some people are. It would be a mistake to paint all people on one side of any issue/debate as innocent, in almost all cases.

I’m all for questioning. I have no horse in the race. I just want to know what the VP can do, because I want to know if it can benefit me enough to be worth my money. If it can, great. If it can’t, then it’s simply not for me. To me it’s just a device, but I can understand people who are enthusiastic about it, because I’m enthusiastic about other things, and I like sharing enthusiasm. But I can’t comprehend people who spend so much time in thread after thread making comment after comment disparaging and mocking. It seems like a tragic waste of precious time on Earth to me. But it doesn’t matter if I comprehend or not—to each their own. But I do occasionally take the time to challenge posts that I believe are making assumptions or inaccurate statements and that have otherwise gone unchallenged, because I try to promote unbiased fact and reason as best I can. And I do find I challenge posts from “naysayers” (whether regarding the VP or other subjects) overwhelmingly more often. I think this is because negative voices tend to be more prolific on the internet, so assumptions and inaccurate statements from positive voices are already squashed by the time I read them.

 

[Gleipnir]

Nothing about Apple under Tim has shown me that they have the chops to discover and execute on something actually groundbreaking.

What are your groundbreaking standards? Discuss your standards and then describe what Apple did previously to meet them.

 

[Gleipnir]

Its interesting too because its the same users over and over lol. For people who have 0 desire to purchase it they certainly spend a lot of time in the Vision Pro forums lol.

I completely agree. It's like me not going to the PS5 forum at all. I don't even use it, so I won't waste my time arguing with PS5 users about the shortcomings of the PS5. Foolish.

 

[ZombiePhysicist]

Totally agree.

There are too many misconceptions and misunderstandings of what VP is used for.

I dont know that ANYONE understands, fully, what this thing is for, yet.

That said, and because of that, this is one thing im now LOATHING. The annoying ****waffles in the media making fun of people wearing this when they drive, eat out, skateboard etc. First, these ****waffles never used this thing yet are passing judgment. In the early tests, people SKIed with this. They played ping pong with this. They skateboarded with this. You could totally drive with this. I know people with crap vision and they drive just fine. Should you? Probably not, but texting is way worse than doing that, yet the same lame'o's criticizing this are likely the ones more likely to be texting while driving...yet when they do it, it's completely cool. 🙄

I LOVE the people doing all these different things. They are going out into the world and maybe finding use cases no one ever thought about. Pushing the envelope. Pushing things. That's a GOOD thing. That's how you discover amazing cool use cases you would never have thought possible or made sense.

But it's always the ****waffles that never actually do anything, that never even tried the thing, they have the most to say with their 'very brave' lazy jokes about it. F U.

To all you lunatics trying this in insane places and ways, I SALUTE YOU!