G4 iBook at MWNY?

[Edge100]

G4 iBooks will not happen yet. It makes no sense. Although I'm positive that somewhere on the Apple campus, G4 iBooks are wizzing through Finder tasks as quick as can be, WE will not see them for quite some time.

In the past few days, I have had the pleasure of using both a 700MHz iBook and a 667MHz TiBook. There was no question as to which was the faster machine (PB, for sure, at least in the 'quantitative' Finder tasks), but the iBook was not too shabby. Sticking a G4 in the iBook at this point would mean either:

1) Apple will VASTLY improve the speed of the TiBook

or

2) Apple will cripple the G4 in the iBook to make it seem slower in comparison with the TiBook.

Obviously, option 1 is nice, but I dont think a 1GHz+ TiBook is in the near future. Moreover, I dont think Apple would go for option 2 because we (and the entire tech press) would know it and sales would be hurt.

End result: Faster G3s for the iBook until the TiBook can top 1GHz. This is fine with me, since the G3 can more than hold its own on most tasks (besides the obvious FCP/Photoshop filters, etc.)

 

[blakespot]

Quadrant

Originally posted by gazeleips
It would seem to me that with G3 AND G4 iBooks, Steve's whole "quadrant thing" would be an even bigger mess than it is now (emac, old/new imac, etc.) Everyone seemed to think that was such a great concept when he first returned - is it just outdated, or is Apple just struggling to give us upgrades and can't get the parts to make a complete and satisfying line up with just four offerings?

Yes, this is my main concern here. The "quadrant" product philosophy is great--it was very easy for the consumer to see what is going on. Now it is more cluttered, and I hope this does not create confusion in the minds of the consumer.

blakespot

 

[Wry Cooter]

Re: Product Matrix

Originally posted by Sayer
the Product Matrix hasn't been seen for a long time.
<snipparoo>
This obvious of a G4 pushdown to the consumer level for its realized benefits in encoding DVD, OpenGL boost and a snappier OS X. This leaves the pro Desktop/TiBook open for the next major processor either G4/DDR or G5 (whatever it will be).

The only way a g4 iBook makes sense is if they raise the ceiling on the TiBooks considerably. It is unlikely that an iBook if bumped to g4 would have a superdrive in any case. They still want people to use iMovie and iTunes though, and altivec helps there.

I say g4 in iBook aint going to happen unless something new is happening in TiBooks at MWNY.

But wouldn't it be nice if no product with a g3 cost more than 1399? g3 iMacs down to 600 bucks, iBooks starting under a 1000? I think if Apple is serious about the SWITCH concept, they are going to have to provide a model or two priced like commodity PCs.

 

[Brent]

This is my first post; been lurking for a few months.

Jobs is a smart guy. And Apple is obviously trying to convert PC users over to Macs (as evidenced that they are doing PC/Mac comparos in Apple Stores). They realize that Joe Blow, the average internet user, will look at a Dell and see Pentium 4 and an iBook and see G3 and automatically assume the Pentium is way faster. Apple knows that they need to beef up chip speed, not for the loyal Mac users, who know that a G3 would smoke a PIII and compare to a PIV on many levels, but for the consumers that they are trying to proselytize.

I say Apple is going to turn some heads before summer is over so they can create a lot of hype to sell more computers in Q4.

 

[jamesbhai]

not that any of this is unique, but that never stops anyone in here. as a proud owner of a new 700mhz ibook, i can attest that it is very snappy, at least snappier than any ibook i've used before, as well as snappier than the first tibooks (400-500mhz). to upgrade them doesn't make sense with the capital invested in sahara (they could keep those around, but for how long if g4s are already in the 14" ibooks? talk about cluttered!). perhaps modifying the graphics card to 32mb or something, but i doubt it.

mwny02

jaguarjaguarjaguar--will be released in mid-late august

beyond that

2. speed bumped imacs (1ghz)
3. speed bumped powermacs (1.2 or 1.4--g5 mwsf03)
4. xserve
5. speed bumped powerbooks (iffy--1ghz)
6. discounted ipods (stretch)
7. ???

ibooks will be left out, but singularly are ready to hold their own as g3s till mwsf. not till after the g5s are out.

that's all from here...

 

[jamesbhai]

oops

i forgot the non-hardware/software item...

mac vs pc...the showdown strategy. detailing the new commercials, the logic behind and plans for the future (i.e. showdowns at apple stores or ...). if this is the largest ad campaign since Think Different, you better believe Jobs will play it up.

also, the new apple superstores might be detailed.

okay, i'm thru now, i think....

 

[ftaok]

About the Sahara

Originally posted by jamesbhai
...to upgrade them doesn't make sense with the capital invested in sahara (they could keep those around, but for how long if g4s are already in the 14" ibooks? talk about cluttered!). ...

What capital was invested in going from the 750CXe to the 750FX? Was there a motherboard change? I was under the impression that the 750FX was 100% pin compatible with the 750CXe. Is this right?

Sure, IBM has invested capital in making the Sahara chip, but Apple hasn't always shown much regards to their suppliers/partners.

 

[iwantanewmac]

I say they take the ibook up to 1 GHZ or more forst and then move on to a new processor.

 

[billiam0878]

iBook "Minor Revision"

Isn't it possible that this "minor revision" is not something as major as a G4 but something as minor as adding BlueTooth to the existing models?

Bill

 

[GabrielX]

Re: Re: Death to the G3!!

Originally posted by Backtothemac


Not to start a fight, but the new G3 iBooks are very snappy. They handle X well, and can run QE. They also are perfect for students and consumers. Not everyone needs to alter 25 meg photoshop files. I think the G3 in the iBook will not die until the uber G4 or G5 is out. It just doesn't make sense to do so.

Heck the pre-upgrade G3 iBooks are snappy. I used it through about half of law school, with no regrets and was able to do everything I wanted fast enough. It wasn't as fast as I wanted, but they haven't made a computer that can do what I want as fast as I want.

As for a new casing on a G4 iBook...I don't know if Apple will do that. If they will, it will be a minor thing, but the iBooks are a wonderful formfactor, with a very high indestructability factor.

Gabriel

 

[psxndc]

I just got an iBook...

I put very little stock in g4 iBooks right now.

As someone who just dumped $1500+ on a brand new 700MHz iBook, I will go into the Apple Store (gotta support them if I want them to stick around) and start flipping tables over. The people at the Apple Store aren't responsible, but c'mon. Apple's not going to move the iBook to a whole new processor a month after updating it, create a middle ground between the iBook and PowerBook markets, and alienate a boatload of people that just switched to Macs, the center of their new ad campaign.

Quoting an SNL skit parodying the O'Reilly Factor:

"Sorry senator, not buying it. I'm just not buying it. "

psxndc

PS The new iBook runs fantastically, especially after 10.1.5

 

[drastik]

Moto performing well

I don't know if this really means anything, but Motorola just announced that they will meet or exceed estimates for this quarter and the rest of the year.

What interests me is that Moto says that all of its divisions are growing and doing well, which is a shift fro the previous five quarters.

Might just mean people are upgrading their cell phones. Also might mean that apple has some big orders in.

 

[kdog]

just a thought...

It's been demonstrated that one can overclock the new ibook to 900mhz or so through software (see xlr8yourmac). Since a large portion of the iBook target audience is not likely to be aware of this, why not just come out with a 900mhz or 1ghz G3 iBook (through a simple software manipulation a better battery and/or cooling system? That would be the cheapest (and sneakiest) way for Apple to come out with an SE iBook which appears to bridge the iBook and the TiBook...

Whaddya think?

 

[cjerens]

Re: just a thought...

Originally posted by kdog
It's been demonstrated that one can overclock the new ibook to 900mhz or so through software (see xlr8yourmac). Since a large portion of the iBook target audience is not likely to be aware of this, why not just come out with a 900mhz or 1ghz G3 iBook (through a simple software manipulation a better battery and/or cooling system? That would be the cheapest (and sneakiest) way for Apple to come out with an SE iBook which appears to bridge the iBook and the TiBook...

Whaddya think?

I totally agree with you. That's pretty much what I suggested in a previous post. But, if they'd do that, they'd have to do it for the PB as well.

 

[DakotaGuy]

I love my iBook 600. I was a little upset when they upgraded to the 700 and the new video card this summer...thinking to myself, why the heck didn't I wait? I remember the same thing happened when I bought my Blueberry iMac DV, the next month they came out with the Indigo DV+ that had more MHz and a new keyboard and pro mouse, but I just sucked it up and drove on with what I had. I still love my iMac after 2 years, but I am going to sell it and get an eMac this fall. So if Apple does happen to upgrade just know I feel your pain, but forget about it and enjoy your machine, my iBook has a lot of life left in it.

My issue would be if you took an iBook the way it is right now and got rid of the G3, 750fx, and went to a G4 what would happen to battery life? Doesn't the G4 draw more power then the G3 and somewhere I read that the 750fx is a power miser. If IBM has already proved that the processor can be moved up to 1Ghz then there is a lot of life left in this chip. Once QE is implemented in 10.2 and these new iBooks can take advantage of that I think you will be surprised how well the finder works and how nice window resizing and scrolling is on this machine. With that technology I would happen to think any 600MHz to 1Ghz G3 would be a quick consumer machine.

I am all for moving the iBook to the G4...but I would hate to have a 500-600MHz G4 iBook if I could instead have a 1Ghz G3 iBook. For what I use a computer for the 1Ghz would be a lot snappier for day to day tasks. Besides what looks better to consumers???

I know that Alti-Vec is suppose to make the processor like twice as fast from what a lot of people have posted on here, but I don't buy that a 500-600MHz G4 would outperform a 1Ghz G3 in most day to day tasks that people use iBooks for. Anyhow I don't know if we will ever see a 1Ghz iBook anytime soon and I am stuck with my 600 for the next couple of years, but I like it, it works very good and I would have no problem in recommending the new 700Mhz iBook to anyone that wants a good, fast, economical laptop.

 

[numb_brain]

I think it is way to soon to release a G4 iBook. And selling both a G3 an G4 ibook would make things messy and complicated. It's already complicated enough with the G3 and G4 iMacs as it is.

One way to keep it clear is to wait until the Tibook is upgraded, then come out with a G4 ibook, and at the same time come out with the e-book with a G3. And of course they would EOL the G3 imac...

Think about it: you would have a low-end (e), middle-end (i) and high-end (power) model in both the desktop and portable range, and things wouldn't look as messy...

Of course, they would wait until the time is right for it (maybe in September?)

numb_brain

 

[Curiousstrngmint]

graphics

I'm shopping for a laptop for college...I might--MIGHT--be willing to go with a G3 iBook IF the graphics card was beefed up to 32 megs. I can't afford a titanium, really, so if Apple doesn't satisfy me with the iBook (the design of which I actually like better than the titanium), I have to get a PC...ick. So does anybody think the graphics will be improved?

 

[Backtothemac]

Re: graphics

Originally posted by Curiousstrngmint
I'm shopping for a laptop for college...I might--MIGHT--be willing to go with a G3 iBook IF the graphics card was beefed up to 32 megs. I can't afford a titanium, really, so if Apple doesn't satisfy me with the iBook (the design of which I actually like better than the titanium), I have to get a PC...ick. So does anybody think the graphics will be improved?

Question. Why do you need the 32 megs of video ram? The 16 meg Radeon will be fine for anything that you could want to do in college. Macs and PC's don't use memory the same. That is why my iBook with 8 megs of VR can play wolfinstien. Try that on a PC. The iBook 600 or 700 will be fine for you trust me.

 

[Nipsy]

Originally posted by McFreggle

I think they can't keep on changing an existing model and changing and changing... they allready did the 14" screen (which I don't like), and if you ask me, changing the CPU also, would rather ask for a complete redesign...
k.

I would argue that with the MHz disparity growing, and better, cheaper G4 yields, they have to keep changing models.

The only reason not to update when chips become available is not to upset recent purchasers. Bear in mind that most recent purchasers are not watching rumor sites daily (that is the pastime of soon to be purchasers). I for one would be thrilled if Apple bumped every line 133 MHz every 6 weeks. The only people who lose are those who never buy a new machine because an upgrade is jus around the corner.

If it can be made faster, make it faster. The new iBook is new enough that it can step from G3 to G4 without needing a case revision. The same cannot be said of the G3/G4/QS case...

There are a few rumor sites that are proclaiming that MWNY's 'one more thing' will be SJ proclaiming the death of the G3. This means that the old iMac would be gone (eliminating iMac & iMac G4 confusion). I hope so, and I hope it lasts longer than the death of the CRT.

 

[buffsldr]

Re: Re: Re: Death to the G3!!

Originally posted by Cappy


If they can bring in a G4 ibook for the same price as a G3 then I say let them. I can't help but think that way too many people are banking on QE being the be all end all of sluggishness on the Macs. I don't think people realize that it will depend on the video card on how much better it *might* be.

It'd be great to be proven wrong since I'm hoping for an ibook before the year is out but Apple has a way of disappointing folks after Jobs gets the hype machine going.

Cappy, I love your signature. You are a man after my own heart. Thank you.

 

[Curiousstrngmint]

Re: Re: graphics

Originally posted by Backtothemac


Question. Why do you need the 32 megs of video ram? The 16 meg Radeon will be fine for anything that you could want to do in college. Macs and PC's don't use memory the same. That is why my iBook with 8 megs of VR can play wolfinstien. Try that on a PC. The iBook 600 or 700 will be fine for you trust me.

Ah...that's good news, I actually haven't seen it running. But it's not really wolfenstein I'm worried about...it's Doom 3. Have you SEEN the videos?

 

[robguz]

It's possible

I think this could happen, but it could be like one of those typical premature MacWorld announcements and it won't ship until the end of August. They could put in a G4 667 without an L3 cache and it would be 20-30% slower than the new 667Ti with a worse video card, smaller screen, less VRAM, less screen real estate but still be able to call itself a G4. Although that would probably be no faster than the G3 700 with it's bigger L2 for everything except Altivec instructions. It could be $1999 and you'd still get alot more for $500 with the Ti. Or maybe by the time it ships they'd update the Ti again or drop the price so it still sells well.

I doubt the aging slow G4 chips are that much more expensive than the new G3 designs. The new top end AMD athlons and 2.5 Ghz P4s are like $250 each in volume.

Remember that even when the 733 G4 with a 1MB L3 came out, it was maybe 10% faster than the 533 at best. So a 667 with no L3 is hardly going to intrude on the Ti.

 

[Grokgod]

~back to the mac

Are you saying that there is a PC out there that isnt in a landfill that has 8 megs VR. I havent seen 8 megs VR in a pc in a very very long time.
We talking laptops here?
Ok maybe not that long if were talking laptops.
but a while, yea, a while.

Oh crap. did I just say something stupid.
Oh well, its happened again.

 

[ryan]

Re: just a thought...

Originally posted by kdog
It's been demonstrated that one can overclock the new ibook to 900mhz or so through software (see xlr8yourmac). Since a large portion of the iBook target audience is not likely to be aware of this, why not just come out with a 900mhz or 1ghz G3 iBook (through a simple software manipulation a better battery and/or cooling system? That would be the cheapest (and sneakiest) way for Apple to come out with an SE iBook which appears to bridge the iBook and the TiBook...

Whaddya think?

I think it would make sense if Apple bumped the speed on the TiPB to 900MHz+, they're not going to have a "consumer" level machine that exceeds their "pro" level machines by 100MHz or more.

 

[ryan]

Re: Product Matrix

Originally posted by Sayer
the Product Matrix hasn't been seen for a long time.
I'd love a G4/14" iBook for mobile programming and other work. The G4 would help overall in OS X and the occasional distractions (games/DVD).

As a programmer, when I bought my 600MHz iBook I opted for the 12" model over the 14" model (and the TiPB) because it is so much more portable than the 14" iBook or TiPB. While more processing power and screen real-estate are nice I was willing to sacrifice those things for the smaller form factor and slightly lower weight of the other two machines. If Apple were to only put a G4 in the 14" iBook I would be supremely disappointed and I think a lot of other people who prefer the 12" iBook would as well.