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G5 announced Jan, Available Feb / Mar
- Thread starter Ensign Paris
- Start date
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In response to Foocha...
*People don't love Fords - people do love Beetles and TTs
I love my ford (2001 Mustang GT) and I would rather walk than drive a Beetle. The TT is ok, but you have to be an old man to want to drive a TT.
--
Back on the subject of the thread, bring on the next DP G4, at 1.? ghz.
*People don't love Fords - people do love Beetles and TTs
I love my ford (2001 Mustang GT) and I would rather walk than drive a Beetle. The TT is ok, but you have to be an old man to want to drive a TT.
--
Back on the subject of the thread, bring on the next DP G4, at 1.? ghz.
MAC GAMES
i was in college when we had our apple IIe and i have to admit, games are all my younger brother and i ever did with that poor machine...i did not get into word processing until the macintosh and at that point, while i heard of gaming from the geeks and nerds, i only typed papers
when i used go to computerware and fry's in northern california, i was suprised to see all the games out in macintosh, many more titles than i had seen just a few years earlier...and about them coming out on pc, i don't know if their release dates were soomer or not to be honest since my days at office depot were there selling pc only games so i did have to travel to get mac games, but there are many games out there now...but unfortunatlely you have to search and some old time mac gamers would always tell me of the time when the mac was king in gaming
so my gaming experience was either too early or too late to be in the golden age of mac gaming, but i certainly don't have the money to buy the wide range of games that exist today
mac is a lot more than graphics, office 2001, and the net
i was in college when we had our apple IIe and i have to admit, games are all my younger brother and i ever did with that poor machine...i did not get into word processing until the macintosh and at that point, while i heard of gaming from the geeks and nerds, i only typed papers
when i used go to computerware and fry's in northern california, i was suprised to see all the games out in macintosh, many more titles than i had seen just a few years earlier...and about them coming out on pc, i don't know if their release dates were soomer or not to be honest since my days at office depot were there selling pc only games so i did have to travel to get mac games, but there are many games out there now...but unfortunatlely you have to search and some old time mac gamers would always tell me of the time when the mac was king in gaming
so my gaming experience was either too early or too late to be in the golden age of mac gaming, but i certainly don't have the money to buy the wide range of games that exist today
mac is a lot more than graphics, office 2001, and the net
Lets get serious for a minute....
If Apple have G% available, they will release.
If they don't, what can they do?
There is no way they can announce a 'new product if they will not be readily available (or 2-3 weeks later). Sure, we all want G5's, but are they ready? Keep in mind that for a majority of users hte true benefit of hte G% might not be felt - hte high end models will benefit.
Apple has to develop LCD, faster chips, OS enhancements, new 'digital hub' devices,and so on - all at once? Give Apple credit for stratergy. They need to work all these developments together. Don't expect everything at once, they will have nothing to announce at future Expos (Tokyo, New York, etc). Let's get away from thie 'if they don't announce at an Expo, they will fail' mentality. They didn't hold over the new TiBook for MWSF did they?
If Apple have G% available, they will release.
If they don't, what can they do?
There is no way they can announce a 'new product if they will not be readily available (or 2-3 weeks later). Sure, we all want G5's, but are they ready? Keep in mind that for a majority of users hte true benefit of hte G% might not be felt - hte high end models will benefit.
Apple has to develop LCD, faster chips, OS enhancements, new 'digital hub' devices,and so on - all at once? Give Apple credit for stratergy. They need to work all these developments together. Don't expect everything at once, they will have nothing to announce at future Expos (Tokyo, New York, etc). Let's get away from thie 'if they don't announce at an Expo, they will fail' mentality. They didn't hold over the new TiBook for MWSF did they?
Megahertz Again.......
Sheep. All sheep.
I AM SOOOOOO tired of hearing about mHz. I know its a long heated topic, but mHz in a G5 wont matter near as much as anyone thinks. Regardless of when the G5 comes out, if it is a true 64 bit G5, mHz simply wont matter. Its a blazingly fast chip (like the IBM itanium, which I seem to talk about a lot, but the thing is just unreal) and will absolutely crush a P4. Problem is, if it doesnt come out soon, intel will release their own 64 bit baby and beat Apple out simply because people will easily transition to it.
Point is, dont make unintelligent remarks like, "if the G5 isnt a 1.2 whatever, Im switching to PC." Thats the stupidest thing Ive ever heard. But then again, sheep arent exactly the most intelligent things on the planet. The fastest the itanium processor is clocked at is 800mHz, and destroys any chip in the market. That probably why the systems run you 15 grand for an Intellistation Z.
Base your computer buying on what your needs are, and how much you are willing to spend. I use three different systems (Mac,PC, Unix/SGI) and they all are awesome for what they are needed for.
Sheep. All sheep.
I AM SOOOOOO tired of hearing about mHz. I know its a long heated topic, but mHz in a G5 wont matter near as much as anyone thinks. Regardless of when the G5 comes out, if it is a true 64 bit G5, mHz simply wont matter. Its a blazingly fast chip (like the IBM itanium, which I seem to talk about a lot, but the thing is just unreal) and will absolutely crush a P4. Problem is, if it doesnt come out soon, intel will release their own 64 bit baby and beat Apple out simply because people will easily transition to it.
Point is, dont make unintelligent remarks like, "if the G5 isnt a 1.2 whatever, Im switching to PC." Thats the stupidest thing Ive ever heard. But then again, sheep arent exactly the most intelligent things on the planet. The fastest the itanium processor is clocked at is 800mHz, and destroys any chip in the market. That probably why the systems run you 15 grand for an Intellistation Z.
Base your computer buying on what your needs are, and how much you are willing to spend. I use three different systems (Mac,PC, Unix/SGI) and they all are awesome for what they are needed for.
MHz "myth"
The truth is that whilst Mac is still the fastest platform to run Photoshop, it is outperformed in many other areas by Windows PCs which cost substantially less.
There may be a MHz myth going around, but if Apple doesn't crank up the speed soon they could be in trouble.
I'm a big fan of the Mac & I'm hoping Steve will pull something out of the bag in January - performance is a critical issue for the Mac platform right now, and it's no wonder that so many Mac fans on this forum are genuinely concerned about it.
The truth is that whilst Mac is still the fastest platform to run Photoshop, it is outperformed in many other areas by Windows PCs which cost substantially less.
There may be a MHz myth going around, but if Apple doesn't crank up the speed soon they could be in trouble.
I'm a big fan of the Mac & I'm hoping Steve will pull something out of the bag in January - performance is a critical issue for the Mac platform right now, and it's no wonder that so many Mac fans on this forum are genuinely concerned about it.
Hey Foocha
From what I know of you--you are a really intelligent, nice person.
But I think you misread me. Apple wont have to "crank up" anything (megahertz-wise) if they release a true G5. (MWSF, or 3 months later) The chip archetecture takes care of the speed issue without the high mHz number. I was giving an example with the itanium.
Also, I am totally a proponent of mulitple systems. Im not a mac-only type of guy, even though it is my personal choice. I love 'em all baby.
But you are totally right in your last point. Apple better deliver one way or another because Apple people are getting anxious.
From what I know of you--you are a really intelligent, nice person.
But I think you misread me. Apple wont have to "crank up" anything (megahertz-wise) if they release a true G5. (MWSF, or 3 months later) The chip archetecture takes care of the speed issue without the high mHz number. I was giving an example with the itanium.
Also, I am totally a proponent of mulitple systems. Im not a mac-only type of guy, even though it is my personal choice. I love 'em all baby.
But you are totally right in your last point. Apple better deliver one way or another because Apple people are getting anxious.
jayscheuerle
macrumors 68020
Funny....
I guess this is a place for dreams, but there aren't going to be any G5's until next summer. MWSF will not be about processor speed, though Apple will bump them up. Unfortunately, they won't be using the fastest G3s available for the new iMacs because they are faster than the G4's and that wouldn't look right. Until OSX, processor speed was really a "my pecker is bigger than yours" kind of thing. Even the bottom of the line G3s are suitable for 95% of the apps out there. The graphics board matters more these days, but OSX isn't tuned for the graphics boards out there. It's tuned for the Alvitec engine and the G4 processor.
Sure the LCD iMac will look great, but it's the processor rumors that are going to leave everyone disappointed.
Don't let me pop your bubble though. Leave that to Steve...
I guess this is a place for dreams, but there aren't going to be any G5's until next summer. MWSF will not be about processor speed, though Apple will bump them up. Unfortunately, they won't be using the fastest G3s available for the new iMacs because they are faster than the G4's and that wouldn't look right. Until OSX, processor speed was really a "my pecker is bigger than yours" kind of thing. Even the bottom of the line G3s are suitable for 95% of the apps out there. The graphics board matters more these days, but OSX isn't tuned for the graphics boards out there. It's tuned for the Alvitec engine and the G4 processor.
Sure the LCD iMac will look great, but it's the processor rumors that are going to leave everyone disappointed.
Don't let me pop your bubble though. Leave that to Steve...
True, but not so true
I agree with you regarding the G5 release. Notice in my posts I always clarify by saying 'whenever the G5's come out.' I dont see them coming out till summer either, or maybe later.
But its certainly not all about the card. For most gamers, it is, but not for many designers, especially 3D ones. Most 3D designers dont render to the display driver. Plus, hardware rendering (gaming) always occurs in the processor, and is re-organized via the video card. The video card is only as fast as its corresponding processor.
If you have the latest and greatest video card, but a ****** processor, your graphics will look like just that: ******. Conversely, if you have an average, run of the mill 3D vid card, but a good processor, you can make up for some of that loss.
I agree with you regarding the G5 release. Notice in my posts I always clarify by saying 'whenever the G5's come out.' I dont see them coming out till summer either, or maybe later.
But its certainly not all about the card. For most gamers, it is, but not for many designers, especially 3D ones. Most 3D designers dont render to the display driver. Plus, hardware rendering (gaming) always occurs in the processor, and is re-organized via the video card. The video card is only as fast as its corresponding processor.
If you have the latest and greatest video card, but a ****** processor, your graphics will look like just that: ******. Conversely, if you have an average, run of the mill 3D vid card, but a good processor, you can make up for some of that loss.
Burst bubbles
There's a difference between what you think is going to happen, and what you want to happen.
I'm not holding my breath for a G5 - I suspect we'll just see speed bumped Quicksilver G4s. They need to be pretty fast for them to remain competative with Windows PCs in terms of value.
There's a difference between what you think is going to happen, and what you want to happen.
I'm not holding my breath for a G5 - I suspect we'll just see speed bumped Quicksilver G4s. They need to be pretty fast for them to remain competative with Windows PCs in terms of value.
Re: re: American Cars
That's interesting. I just tell them Intel uses clock-doubled figures and Motorola does not.
That's interesting. I just tell them Intel uses clock-doubled figures and Motorola does not.
jayscheuerle
macrumors 68020
Yes, point taken about 3D work (ELECTRIC IMAGE - the world's fastest render!!), but for most photoshop work a mid-range G3 with loads of ram would not be noticably slower except for applying filters to very large images. I haven't noticed myself watching the clock spin since the days of the clones.
Hard cores will tell you differently, but the difference between 40fps and 90fps is hard for my eyes to discern. And I wish someone would explain how you can see 90fps if your monitor's refreshing @75hz!
And if you're a hard-core, isn't the Mac a diluted choice?
My point is that for most users the megahertz myth goes deeper than PowerPC/Pentium. It's about marketing as much as the pretty enclosures are. Of course, Apple's forcing the 15 month old G3 owners to upgrade anyhow by not supporting their graphics cards at all in OSX...
Hard cores will tell you differently, but the difference between 40fps and 90fps is hard for my eyes to discern. And I wish someone would explain how you can see 90fps if your monitor's refreshing @75hz!
And if you're a hard-core, isn't the Mac a diluted choice?
My point is that for most users the megahertz myth goes deeper than PowerPC/Pentium. It's about marketing as much as the pretty enclosures are. Of course, Apple's forcing the 15 month old G3 owners to upgrade anyhow by not supporting their graphics cards at all in OSX...
Hard Core
Yeah, 3D hard core users certainly dont use Mac for their first choice. #1 is SGI/Unix, although IBM Intellistations are gaining ground-- fast. Most large studios use Maya for modeling (not animation-MODELING) and many independent people use Maya on their Macs. Personally, I use Unix, Maya, and PRRenderMan for rendering at school, but at home I use Cinema4DXL7, which is a pretty damn decent program for the money.
Showing my ignorance: Whats Electric Image? Is it an independant renderer like Renderman?
Gaming wise, yeah--what the hell. 90fps? Gimme a break. The eye cant even discern video 30fps and film 24fps. But Im sure someone here will tell me they can.
But yes, Apple is a lot about style. That is true. No company is perfect, but the point is, most people think Apple is junk because they dont have a 1.x gHz reading on their chips.
Yeah, 3D hard core users certainly dont use Mac for their first choice. #1 is SGI/Unix, although IBM Intellistations are gaining ground-- fast. Most large studios use Maya for modeling (not animation-MODELING) and many independent people use Maya on their Macs. Personally, I use Unix, Maya, and PRRenderMan for rendering at school, but at home I use Cinema4DXL7, which is a pretty damn decent program for the money.
Showing my ignorance: Whats Electric Image? Is it an independant renderer like Renderman?
Gaming wise, yeah--what the hell. 90fps? Gimme a break. The eye cant even discern video 30fps and film 24fps. But Im sure someone here will tell me they can.
But yes, Apple is a lot about style. That is true. No company is perfect, but the point is, most people think Apple is junk because they dont have a 1.x gHz reading on their chips.
jayscheuerle
macrumors 68020
Wow...
Electric Image was THE ONLY professional animation system for the macs up 'til a couple of years ago. It's known for it's ease of achieving photorealism and for its rendering speed (though it didn't do ray tracing until the most recent UNIVERSE version). It was used to some degree in The Phantom Menace.
- and I was actually talking about hard-core gamers, but the comments obviously apply to 3D'ers as well!! I once had a 20 hr render on my 6100 in Studio Pro (back in the day....)
Electric Image was THE ONLY professional animation system for the macs up 'til a couple of years ago. It's known for it's ease of achieving photorealism and for its rendering speed (though it didn't do ray tracing until the most recent UNIVERSE version). It was used to some degree in The Phantom Menace.
- and I was actually talking about hard-core gamers, but the comments obviously apply to 3D'ers as well!! I once had a 20 hr render on my 6100 in Studio Pro (back in the day....)
Sorry, I get carried away when people start talking about 3D, design or gaming. Its just that most people on here dont know much about 3D, which relies so much on the hardware, and most people (and Apple) just compare their hardware's performance with Photoshop.
In the realm of 3D, its like talking about a F16 that takes you to the grocery store.
Sorry didnt know about electric image. I just got into 3D about 3 years ago, and all Ive known is Maya, Bryce, 3DSMax, Cinema4DXL, Adobe Dimensions, Lightwave, and some others I cant think of. Just hadnt heard of Electric Image. Do they have a website?? They arent the same guys who do the Flash 3D exporter, are they?
jayscheuerle
macrumors 68020
http://www.electricimage.com/home.html
You've been playing with the big boys toys, but EI was the best you could get on the Mac. (AND it was ONLY on the Mac!)
You've been playing with the big boys toys, but EI was the best you could get on the Mac. (AND it was ONLY on the Mac!)
Re:
Hi
Any suggestions on which software to use and what books to buy( must be cheap and easy..sorta like me), I want to learn a bit more about 3D design and animation.- from an artistic slant.
Thanks
Hi
Any suggestions on which software to use and what books to buy( must be cheap and easy..sorta like me), I want to learn a bit more about 3D design and animation.- from an artistic slant.
Thanks
re: rendering
at this juncture in computing, the human eye is still too sharp and that is the reason some big budget movies are returining to using live action and huge props (like ben hur and other classics)
"Pearl Harbor" used real airplanes (9 very rare vintage airplanes) when they didn't have to and had a huge battleship bow built when they didn't have to and had huge explosions (bigger than the movie industry deems safe) just to get the realism
the whole battle sequence could have been done with computers and ilm took a backseat in this movie to the props which must have cost a mint, but those props still look much more real than the best computer 3D
titanic could have also used computers for the whole boat but the director insisted on an 800 ft mockup of the 880 ft behemoth of a ship and the fear was, even with good sales, the movie could have lost money (the movie ended up costing more than the actual titanic)
at this juncture in computing, the human eye is still too sharp and that is the reason some big budget movies are returining to using live action and huge props (like ben hur and other classics)
"Pearl Harbor" used real airplanes (9 very rare vintage airplanes) when they didn't have to and had a huge battleship bow built when they didn't have to and had huge explosions (bigger than the movie industry deems safe) just to get the realism
the whole battle sequence could have been done with computers and ilm took a backseat in this movie to the props which must have cost a mint, but those props still look much more real than the best computer 3D
titanic could have also used computers for the whole boat but the director insisted on an 800 ft mockup of the 880 ft behemoth of a ship and the fear was, even with good sales, the movie could have lost money (the movie ended up costing more than the actual titanic)
Re: Re: re: American Cars
As true as this may be, I think that would confuse people even more...
Most people I know don't know much about technical terms with computers...
Most can barely even get on the internet!
As true as this may be, I think that would confuse people even more...
Most people I know don't know much about technical terms with computers...
Most can barely even get on the internet!
agreenster> "like the IBM itanium"
Hehe. Freudian slip?
> "will absolutely crush a P4"
Um, the Itanium doesn't even touch the P4 according to the SPEC results I've seen. (maybe the compilers? In any case the itanium is not giving the results we'd expect).
> destroys any chip in the market
Would you get a grip already. The fastest P4 beats it in float and massacres it in int. Bear in mind that the P4 is a step down from the P3 in int performance (according to SPEC).
Hehe. Freudian slip?
> "will absolutely crush a P4"
Um, the Itanium doesn't even touch the P4 according to the SPEC results I've seen. (maybe the compilers? In any case the itanium is not giving the results we'd expect).
> destroys any chip in the market
Would you get a grip already. The fastest P4 beats it in float and massacres it in int. Bear in mind that the P4 is a step down from the P3 in int performance (according to SPEC).