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I think a lot of people miss the point in the AIO vs. headless deal. They don't have to cannibalize one another. They can complement one another. If Apple releases an iMac, it's going to appeal to the iMac market for people that want an all-in-one enclosure desktop that suits a very different demographic than I feel a more utilitarian budgeted Cube or Mac LC or whatever they elect to call it would. It can share componentry and architecture/specs, vary in some ways if necessary to appeal to the different tastes of both clientele (maybe an upgradable AGP slot instead of soldered in, although honestly I can live with built-in, as this *WOULD NOT* be anymore a gaming machine than an iMac, the G5 desktop is more like an Alienware PC which is geared for gaming)... but can be suitable to both sides and appeal to both factions. I think there's honestly an array of people that don't want to be tethered to a monitor, other's though want the AIO. Give us both... and share the R&D costs of the architecture across both and it can work extremely well and Apple won't lose any profits and they'll get more people into Macs more quickly and without cutting corners. Even if there's no announcement via Paris... I am still going to hold out because the iMac/eMac isn't what suits me. It never will.

As for the naysayers... it worked in the past... i.e. the old Mac LC lineup that lasted 3 generations and was exactly what most reasonably "realistic" people are really clamoring for. I think the time is ripe again for such a computer from Apple. It's not an upgradable as sin PC, but it's got the features a lot of people want without being tethered to a monitor without a choice to pick what size they really want. Granted I don't see a LC hooked up to a 30" LCD (on-board video likely wouldn't support it) but... a 23" Apple Cinema could work nicely. Or for those that can't shell out $1,000+ on an LCD, a 17-19" normal screen would work. Either via Apple or someone else... the increased volume of sales shipments would help Apple gain marketshare, even if they don't necessarily increase their profitability on the sale of monitor/LCD glued together as one. They lose sales on people that don't want that though, and that wait for either something they do want, or 'til they can afford something that quite honestly might be more than they need... but at least it fulfills their requirements/tastes.

When I speak of Utilitarian Budgeted Cube/LC, I don't mean miniscule compact over-engineered to the point of expensive fetish item like the previous incarnation. I don't care if it's a pizza box, a cube, or some other shape... if it's a headless single processor desktop, it's all I need. Otherwise, I'll wait awhile and get a G5 desktop, but I can guarantee it'll be quite a bit as other priorities come first. If that's true of me, I'm sure there's countless others' in the same boat. An iMac or eMac doesn't appeal to me. I want to choose my monitor, and survive with what monitor I have now (17" CRT) 'til I can get what I desire later on. Maybe a 20" LCD a year down the road when I can better afford it, if not... something 17-20" from Apple or otherwise that's within my reach. I'm not after 60 fps at Doom III... I want something decent enough that'll be supported by Core Image/Video eventually in Tiger, that's got a little bit of processing muscle, and that can serve me as long as this upgraded 9600 I soldier on with.

The iMac/eMac isn't going to cut it, and a G5 can take me a year to logically afford when other things come up that cut into that hefty sticker. We need something in between, that suits the non-AIO crowd, without necessarily stealing sales from the AIO's. Complementary, not defeatest. That's the key. It's not an iMac if it's not AIO, it's not an eMac if it's not AIO. It's something different. What that is named... I don't care... but I do want one, and if Apple builds it they'll have my cash reasonably soon and that of many other's apparently (except those unrealistic types that'd complain if they didn't get a GeForce Ultra Mega Super Titanium with Chrome fender skirts for peanuts and the ability to upgrade everything on it). That's the point. 😀
 
IVIIVI4ck3y27 said:
I think a lot of people miss the point in the AIO vs. headless deal. They don't have to cannibalize one another. They can complement one another. If Apple releases an iMac, it's going to appeal to the iMac market for people that want an all-in-one enclosure desktop that suits a very different demographic than I feel a more utilitarian budgeted Cube or Mac LC or whatever they elect to call it would. It can share componentry and architecture/specs, vary in some ways if necessary to appeal to the different tastes of both clientele (maybe an upgradable AGP slot instead of soldered in, although honestly I can live with built-in, as this *WOULD NOT* be anymore a gaming machine than an iMac, the G5 desktop is more like an Alienware PC which is geared for gaming)... but can be suitable to both sides and appeal to both factions. I think there's honestly an array of people that don't want to be tethered to a monitor, other's though want the AIO. Give us both... and share the R&D costs of the architecture across both and it can work extremely well and Apple won't lose any profits and they'll get more people into Macs more quickly and without cutting corners. Even if there's no announcement via Paris... I am still going to hold out because the iMac/eMac isn't what suits me. It never will.

As for the naysayers... it worked in the past... i.e. the old Mac LC lineup that lasted 3 generations and was exactly what most reasonably "realistic" people are really clamoring for. I think the time is ripe again for such a computer from Apple. It's not an upgradable as sin PC, but it's got the features a lot of people want without being tethered to a monitor without a choice to pick what size they really want. Granted I don't see a LC hooked up to a 30" LCD (on-board video likely wouldn't support it) but... a 23" Apple Cinema could work nicely. Or for those that can't shell out $1,000+ on an LCD, a 17-19" normal screen would work. Either via Apple or someone else... the increased volume of sales shipments would help Apple gain marketshare, even if they don't necessarily increase their profitability on the sale of monitor/LCD glued together as one. They lose sales on people that don't want that though, and that wait for either something they do want, or 'til they can afford something that quite honestly might be more than they need... but at least it fulfills their requirements/tastes.

When I speak of Utilitarian Budgeted Cube/LC, I don't mean miniscule compact over-engineered to the point of expensive fetish item like the previous incarnation. I don't care if it's a pizza box, a cube, or some other shape... if it's a headless single processor desktop, it's all I need. Otherwise, I'll wait awhile and get a G5 desktop, but I can guarantee it'll be quite a bit as other priorities come first. If that's true of me, I'm sure there's countless others' in the same boat. An iMac or eMac doesn't appeal to me. I want to choose my monitor, and survive with what monitor I have now (17" CRT) 'til I can get what I desire later on. Maybe a 20" LCD a year down the road when I can better afford it, if not... something 17-20" from Apple or otherwise that's within my reach. I'm not after 60 fps at Doom III... I want something decent enough that'll be supported by Core Image/Video eventually in Tiger, that's got a little bit of processing muscle, and that can serve me as long as this upgraded 9600 I soldier on with.

The iMac/eMac isn't going to cut it, and a G5 can take me a year to logically afford when other things come up that cut into that hefty sticker. We need something in between, that suits the non-AIO crowd, without necessarily stealing sales from the AIO's. Complementary, not defeatest. That's the key. It's not an iMac if it's not AIO, it's not an eMac if it's not AIO. It's something different. What that is named... I don't care... but I do want one, and if Apple builds it they'll have my cash reasonably soon and that of many other's apparently (except those unrealistic types that'd complain if they didn't get a GeForce Ultra Mega Super Titanium with Chrome fender skirts for peanuts and the ability to upgrade everything on it). That's the point. 😀

Well said. There is definitely a market that Apple misses cashing in on by limiting their offering of a headless Mac to the dual G5 PowerMac line. A single processor, reasonably upgradeable system, sans monitor, for around $1,000...this would definitely sell.
 
aswitcher said:
I am hoping for a leak or really accurate mock up in the next week. TS had some good stuff and others as well. I think its such a big thing that more will come out before Paris.

Hopefully there will be some other cool stuff as well.

Same here. Something as big as this can't be kept quiet for too long, hopefully.
 
Good value, yes. Nothing else.

XboxEvolved said:
I would just like to remind people that the newest Dual 1.8 G5 only comes with 256mb ram as a standard so the ram thing really isnt that bad. in comparison to a dual G5 which is somehow running off of 128mb per cpu.

I personally don't know what to do at this point. As a new Mac user who owns a used 467 mhz PowerMac G4 anything is an upgrade to me. The best value to me though seems to be an eMac.

I've looked at the eMac recently, and although it does offer a good mix of great one-size, good value, good processing power package, it does still have a CRT. I don't know about the screen resolution system preference on the eMac, but I had to guess I would say that you CAN change the horizontal scanning frequency, which I would suggest to up to the highest possible level. I am now at a university computer with a CRT monitor, and I'm almost positive it's set at 60 MHz, yikes!!! I'm not going to be able to look at it for too much longer.

The reason I point this out, is that 17" LCD's are so inexpensive nowawadays, compared to 4 years ago, that it would be foolish to get a computer WITHOUT an LCD screen. I have been using laptops for the past three years as a desktop replacement, and have loved them for the LCD screen. I'm on the verge of plopping down a few thousand on a G5 system and an Alu display.

Apple has GREAT values on G4 systems if you look under the SAVE category, now located on the right-hand column in the Applestore.com. You can get your hands on a great G4, all you have to get is a display. Can I wait for G5? Yes. But I don't want to; I've been on my 800 MHz G3-based iBook for almost two full years, and it feels slower than molassass on a cold day.
 
What do you guys think?

I stumbled across this when browsing the net. (Shape of things to come?) What do you guys think?
 

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White vs. Industrial

Just as a side note, I threw together a list of how the iBooks and iMacs went from color to White, more form than function. Maybe that will help throw some light on the subject.

Colored iMac Release: May '98
Colored iBook Release: July '99

Snow iMac Release: July, '00 (26 months later)
White iBook Release: May '01 (22 months later)

G4 iMac Release: January '02 (17 months later)

G5 iMac Release: September '04 (33 months later)

So the main difference that I see.. as long as I counted correctly.
Is that the in the G3 iMac form it did change slightly over its 43 months of sales, while the G4 just had screen increases. The G4 iMac has only had it's current form factor for 33 months now.

I would like to see them keep the 'Sunflower' factor for the G5 iMac just like the kept the White iBook when the upgraded that to G4. I think the design is really still quite ahead of the curve, and would not be surprised to see a very similar display/hemisphere for the next iMac. Of course they might follow the 4G iPod coloring as an updated scheme.
 
Honestly I cant imagine this will be cooler then my current imac...I love it.

MAYBE....

If its basically a flat panel screen with the guts in the back I could be excited...

like this ? ( my five minute sketch )

imac1.jpg
 
Chaszmyr said:
I can't see how they could possibly have no optical drive. MAYBE they mean no optical burner? but even the low-end eMac includes a combo drive

Actually, for educational computer labs this makes perfect sense...

I am a Apple certified technical co-ordinator for a teacher training school at an English University and we have typical school set-ups for our Macs...

Locking down - or not having - an optical is a perfect solution for security as we like to assume control of what is deployed on the workstations. This is easily done with a combination of network boot and Apple's fantastic Remote Desktop (which has built in software network distribution).

Having accountability of exactly what software is on a machine, and making sure that it cannot be added to by individuals, is at the heart of a safe education policy for IT management in schools.

Apple have done exactly the right thing by not having an optical in the 'slave' iMacs - let the teacher/trainer have the optical in their teaching machine.
 
beaty said:
Actually, for educational computer labs this makes perfect sense...

I am a Apple certified technical co-ordinator for a teacher training school at an English University and we have typical school set-ups for our Macs...

Locking down - or not having - an optical is a perfect solution for security as we like to assume control of what is deployed on the workstations. This is easily done with a combination of network boot and Apple's fantastic Remote Desktop (which has built in software network distribution).

Having accountability of exactly what software is on a machine, and making sure that it cannot be added to by individuals, is at the heart of a safe education policy for IT management in schools.

Apple have done exactly the right thing by not having an optical in the 'slave' iMacs - let the teacher/trainer have the optical in their teaching machine.

I know what you're saying, but don't you think that the internet and broadband connectivity are rapidly making the 'net the software distribution method of choice, especially for kids who have grown up their whole live with the net?

CDs aren't going away soon, but they are slowly dying.

If you really want to lock down a computer, you're talking no CD drive and no internet connection, which seems to really cripple a computer.

Just my $.02,
-d
 
NusuniAdmin said:
thats just one of the AL cinema displays

I don't recall the new CD's being quite this thick. Am I incorrect, or are you saying they Photoshop'd one to make it look thicker and freak everyone out?
 
IVIIVI4ck3y27 said:
I think a lot of people miss the point in the AIO vs. headless deal. They don't have to cannibalize one another. They can complement one another.

Well said. Many people like to use the Mercedes analogy. I don't know much about Mercedes (my next car is going to be a Smart Car, or a Toyota Echo Hatchback 😀), but doesn't even Mercedes have a low end version that the car snobs can look down on and say, "Well, it's only a <insert low-end model name here> Mercedes", but that someone who actually owns one feels proud because they own a Mercedes?

IVIIVI4ck3y27 said:
I think there's honestly an array of people that don't want to be tethered to a monitor, other's though want the AIO.

And it's not just the form factor argument. I am a person who doesn't mind spending extra money to get something of quality - and I definitely consider Apple products in this category - but I LOATH wasting money, or donating it to corporations. It's just too hard to come by.

I need to get a new computer in the near future. I also need a new monitor, mine being 8 years old (still going to use it as a TV for my MythTV box I'm going to build, though). I really want an LCD, but for a half decent one (17" widescreen), we're talking around $1000cdn. I have a hard enough time paying that for something I can use into the ground, let alone something that will be forced into obsolescence in 4 years or so.

And before I hear it, a Power Mac is overkill, and a cost I couldn't begin to justify.

IVIIVI4ck3y27 said:
... the increased volume of sales shipments would help Apple gain marketshare, even if they don't necessarily increase their profitability on the sale of monitor/LCD glued together as one. They lose sales on people that don't want that though, and that wait for either something they do want, or 'til they can afford something that quite honestly might be more than they need... but at least it fulfills their requirements/tastes.

Exactly right again. I view it more of a choice between the carrot and the stick approach - the stick is what they use now: "If you want an iMac, we're going to force an LCD down your throat." IMO, a much better approach would be to enourage people to buy both components from them, because it's just so cool that way. An iMac base that is designed to look awesome if plugged into an Apple monitor, and like it's missing something if it's not.

IVIIVI4ck3y27 said:
I want to choose my monitor, and survive with what monitor I have now (17" CRT) 'til I can get what I desire later on. Maybe a 20" LCD a year down the road when I can better afford it, if not... something 17-20" from Apple or otherwise that's within my reach.

I swear, you've been reading my mind! 😉

IVIIVI4ck3y27 said:
We need something in between, that suits the non-AIO crowd, without necessarily stealing sales from the AIO's. Complementary, not defeatest. That's the key.

In my case, if they don't offer something like this, I might not be able to buy an Apple, even though I want to very badly. This hardly seems like a good policy to follow, not offering something that customers desperately want to buy.

An eMac is below what I want, the iMac (in it's present FF, anyways) has the problems outlined above, and I didn't win the lottery lately, so no Power Mac G5s for me.

One other point is that people in the US have value problems with the Apple lineup - it's worse for those of us outside the US, when you factor in exchange rates and add on the Apple idiot tax (you know, the extra premium they add the prices above and beyond the exchange rate difference).

However, I am optimistic that I will see something in the near future that I want to/can buy from Apple. They are an extremely smart company, have great eladership, and I think they learned from the low sunflower iMac sales. 🙂
 
comictimes said:
wait.. mounted on the back.. isn't that the same as the original imacs?
and weren't those annoying because they took up a lot of desk space....?
and I should think that even schools with their limited needs would want an optical drive... I mean will the mac OSX install discs be on USB drives?

some parts of this seem very odd...

good point, not a smart move. hope the low end specs are wrong.
 
Think Secret said:
August 13, 2004 - Think Secret Exclusive The soon-to-be-announced, re-designed iMac will be...housed in an all-in-one body with the motherboard and components attached to the back of the display. Sources said the new model will be similar in design and style to Sony's VAIO W700G, but with sleeker lines and contours.


kangaroo said:
Oct '03 - Sony (W & V series vaios) & Gateway (Profile/Media Center) all-in-ones, for example, sport the computer mounted directly behind the LCD. Seems like a logical design move to get the box (dome) off the desk and hide it behind a floating display. In fact, all they need to due is take a powerbook, sans display/keyboard and slap it on the back of a 20" display and they're practically there. Hmm, how much should I charge Apple for that one? 😎

😛 😛 😛 😉
 
Just to put my 2 pence in: I am not necessarily anti AIO, but I do wish that Apple had a lowe end Powermac as monitor.

On the iMac front: an AOI is likely to be the design as it always has been, but Apple need to offer a lot more than a non-upgradeable PowerMac in a flashy case to compete with Sony.

The sony is as all in one digital entertainment system (with analogue outputs). Apple's software is infinitely superior, but most consumers don't understand that. When the Sony details say that you can watch TV, burn DVDs, organise your music etc.. the average cosumer will believe it.. it is true after all. What they don't understand is that the Sony's software is a nightmare to use.
 
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