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G5 may not be what we've been expecting.

Re: Re: OK

Originally posted by Rower_CPU


I thought I brought us back on topic? :)

I think the G5 had better substantially outperform the Wintel chips. What better way to grab more marketshare? We've already got an OS every PC user wishes they had, now we need the hardware to show it off to its fullest.
If they put out a CPU that hands down, no discussion, no excuses beats the crap out of any Intel or AMD chip they will REALLY have something to brag about at MW.
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I like you Rower...we think alike:D
Yeah, I really want to see the G5 debut. Just to see it knock the pants off "the hammer" *ooh im shaking* or the "Mckinely". I really cant wait. I am HOPING for MWNY, but I suspect MWSF.

ONE LAST THING
Anyone notice Apple Edu. Store is having additional price drops? Powermacs get an ADDITIONAL 50 to 100 dollars off, and powerbooks, ibooks, and the old iMac.

Apple is really trying to take a big lead in that area, i guess.
 
all i can say is today i called my local mac dealer who i've bought multiple systems from. i told him i'm tired of waiting for "whatever" the big deal is and told him the specs of how i wanted my dual 1 ghz built. and you guessed it---he said to just wait...he wouldn't be specific as to why. and the guy works on commission so go figure why he'd delay a pretty good sale. he did seem to think tokyo was significant.

could it be the mythical G5?

who the heck knows.:confused:
 
Originally posted by 3rdpath
all i can say is today i called my local mac dealer who i've bought multiple systems from. i told him i'm tired of waiting for "whatever" the big deal is and told him the specs of how i wanted my dual 1 ghz built. and you guessed it---he said to just wait...he wouldn't be specific as to why. and the guy works on commission so go figure why he'd delay a pretty good sale. he did seem to think tokyo was significant.

could it be the mythical G5?

who the heck knows.:confused:
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I think they would catch the whole world by surprise if they did that...but I'm doubtful for one VERY good reason: They just updated the whole PowerMac line in January, and all those people who bought DP1Ghz systems would be rioting in the streets if their two month old systems were already obsolete.

MWSF might be more likely, but still improbable...
 
The G5...

...is *not* going to beat the Itanium (or if it does then someone at Moto is a genius). The Itanium is a very new, very expensive, very large, high-end server chip. The G5 (if it's the Motorola one) is a medium new (new chip, but still PPC), medium low priced, small (if past trends continue, which seems likely to get it into the embedded market), high-end desktop chip. The competition is the P4, the AthlonXP, and possibly the Hammer (I don't know if it's going to be in desktops any time soon). The next big advances for AMD/Intel are going to be

Hyperthreading on the P4: Q1 2003
.13 micron AthlonXP/Hammer: ?
Hammer: ?

I would expect the Q1 2003 P4 to be a 3GHz chip with Hyperthreading, if the G5 isn't out by then the G4 will be finished. It won't be able to keep up with a chip that's 1.5GHz faster than it, and more efficient than the current P4 (assuming that it is 1.5GHz by 2003, hopefully we'll be seeing G5s faster than that :)).
 
MW New York you mean...

Originally posted by Rower_CPU


I think they would catch the whole world by surprise if they did that...but I'm doubtful for one VERY good reason: They just updated the whole PowerMac line in January, and all those people who bought DP1Ghz systems would be rioting in the streets if their two month old systems were already obsolete.

MWSF might be more likely, but still improbable...
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...MWSF is in 2003. If it's not out by then I'll be the one rioting.
 
Re: MW New York you mean...

Originally posted by Catfish_Man


...MWSF is in 2003. If it's not out by then I'll be the one rioting.
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Sorry, that should have been MWNY.
Yeah, G5s by MWSF are an absolute must!
 
yes, a tokyo G5 would be surprising-BUT

apple really needs to do it and soon. they've proven they can keep a secret (and learned a lesson about cover stories...) so anything is possible.

the dual 1ghz is really just a marginal way to keep the power users from rioting; its not a great leap from the dual 800. and lets face it-the people who buy the fast machines LOVE to talk gear. perception is huge to the user and to his/her clients. if nothing happens within 4 weeks i'll buy the G4 but i won't be too happy about jumping in on a product's end of life-cycle.

we've all read the specs and the roadmaps for the processors-the G5 is overdue.
 
Originally posted by 3rdpath
could it be the mythical G5?

who the heck knows.:confused:
Click to expand...

That is THE MOST refreshing thing I've heard in a while! :D None of this "I hope so!" or "It had better be or I'm going to kill [insert large number] Apple employees!" or "Hell no!" Just a simple "who the heck knows". Hear hear!

...okay, I'm going to bed...
 
Re: yes, a tokyo G5 would be surprising-BUT

Originally posted by 3rdpath
apple really needs to do it and soon. they've proven they can keep a secret (and learned a lesson about cover stories...) so anything is possible.

the dual 1ghz is really just a marginal way to keep the power users from rioting; its not a great leap from the dual 800. and lets face it-the people who buy the fast machines LOVE to talk gear. perception is huge to the user and to his/her clients. if nothing happens within 4 weeks i'll buy the G4 but i won't be too happy about jumping in on a product's end of life-cycle.

we've all read the specs and the roadmaps for the processors-the G5 is overdue.
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living not too far away from apple, we in the silicon valley joke how apple can't hide anything, but i think being in the vicinity of cupertino, it is different...i used to know a man who lived near a guitar plant and he always knew what the next year's guitar models were by diving into fender musical intruments' dumpsters and telling his school buddies...well, the apple employees are such zealots, they can't keep their mouths shut sometimes:D

appleinsider used to get everything down to the tee
 
Anniversaries

Hmmm... 2002, in my opinion shouldn't be too groundbreaking. If I were apple, I'd release just enough to keep forward momentum until 2003 and then, make a splash. Why you ask? 2003 is the 20 year anniversary of Lisa. Either that, or they will not do much during 2002 and 2003 and do something huge for 2004, the 20 year anniversary of "1984."
 
Re: Anniversaries

Originally posted by mcrain
Hmmm... 2002, in my opinion shouldn't be too groundbreaking. If I were apple, I'd release just enough to keep forward momentum until 2003 and then, make a splash. Why you ask? 2003 is the 20 year anniversary of Lisa. Either that, or they will not do much during 2002 and 2003 and do something huge for 2004, the 20 year anniversary of "1984."
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the funny thing is nobody (or very few) knows about lisa and a lot of people were not into computers in 1984 for the mac...in the pc world, some oldtimers talk about the 8088, or the early ibm boxes, but most people don't know or even care about how important the 8088 was or ibm's role in the early pc industry

it looks more and more like g5 will come out in 2003, but earlier would be really nice...for a change
 
Agreed, most people who are into computers now were brought up on ****ing Packard bells with 166 pentiums in them. But it matters to apple, and alot of apple fans, so possibly a reincarnation of the cube would be more appropriate than a G5.


The G5 would be nice, but a G4 with rapidIO, 2Mb L3cache etc is by no means a bad chip, shame the clock speed isnt up to par.
 
Re: Anniversaries

Originally posted by mcrain
Hmmm... 2002, in my opinion shouldn't be too groundbreaking. If I were apple, I'd release just enough to keep forward momentum until 2003 and then, make a splash. Why you ask? 2003 is the 20 year anniversary of Lisa. Either that, or they will not do much during 2002 and 2003 and do something huge for 2004, the 20 year anniversary of "1984."
Click to expand...

That is the most ridiculous reasoning I have ever heard. Yes Apple has released an "aniversary edition" (no really groundbreaking new technologies in it though) in the past but they would never delay a major upgrade of their product line to make the number of the year match up nicely. They are a business and as such make business and marketing decisions, not whims as much as any of the Steve worshippers would like to believe.
________________
Still waiting for my DP G5.
 
Re: Re: Anniversaries

Originally posted by SPG


That is the most ridiculous reasoning I have ever heard. Yes Apple has released an "aniversary edition" (no really groundbreaking new technologies in it though) in the past but they would never delay a major upgrade of their product line to make the number of the year match up nicely. They are a business and as such make business and marketing decisions, not whims as much as any of the Steve worshippers would like to believe.
________________
Still waiting for my DP G5.
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apple may be a business, but steve jobs has authored some of the most famous case studies of what not to do in business and is widely studied and ridiculed in business school

steve wozniak had to talk steve jobs into marketing the computer after steve jobs talked wozniak into it but abandoned the idea...it was like the blind leading the blind...if it wasn't for markkula and kawasaki, and some others, apple would have just vanished

jobs is a marketing genius but he still is not a business manager...just look at apple's stock and look at market share at 4.5 percent...even gil amelio had 6 percent of the market with apple

jobs' has this great ability to hit a home run and as he is rounding third base, he always falls and breaks his leg...he is the michell kwan of the IT industry or better yet, he is the sf giants of the IT industry always coming up with great stuff but never winning the world series

re: giants...barry bonds hit 73 homers and the giants still missed the playoffs...just like steve jobs and apple
 
I think Apple and AMD would be perfect. Apple could provide the case and software and AMD can take care of everything else. I would Love to go into a computer shop and buy an Apple Compatible MoBo. Think about it if AMD could make a MoBo that will fit in the currently aging Powermac. That would make me happy I mean how many have got a brand new Powermac and the have Steve say "Oh ya we also have a new line of Powermacs I thinks it's the best thing we have ever made"
 
Re: Re: Re: Anniversaries

Originally posted by jefhatfield
apple may be a business, but steve jobs has authored some of the most famous case studies of what not to do in business and is widely studied and ridiculed in business school

...snip...

jobs is a marketing genius but he still is not a business manager...just look at apple's stock and look at market share at 4.5 percent...even gil amelio had 6 percent of the market with apple
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I'm not gonna say that Jobs is some sort of great CEO, but to compare Jobs and Amelio based on market share is assinine. I could take Apple to a 10% market share by the end of the day tomorrow, but my profit margins are gonna get hurt. In the end, Jobs 4.5% is worth a whole lot more than Gil's 6%. Jobs' Apple is profitable; Gil's Apple was not.

Oh, and I wouldn't put a whole lot of faith in the MBA programs. The original business plan for FedEx was given a "C" because the professor felt that it wasn't feasible. The rest is, as we say, history.
 
Re: Re: Re: Re: Anniversaries

Originally posted by ftaok
I'm not gonna say that Jobs is some sort of great CEO, but to compare Jobs and Amelio based on market share is assinine. I could take Apple to a 10% market share by the end of the day tomorrow, but my profit margins are gonna get hurt. In the end, Jobs 4.5% is worth a whole lot more than Gil's 6%. Jobs' Apple is profitable; Gil's Apple was not.

Oh, and I wouldn't put a whole lot of faith in the MBA programs. The original business plan for FedEx was given a "C" because the professor felt that it wasn't feasible. The rest is, as we say, history.
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do i think jobs is better than gil as ceo? too early to say, maybe...high profit margin works better for software as opposed to hardware, apple should not price itself out of the market and as some lisa owners say it was better than mac, mac lived because it was not too expensive relatively compared to the market...it is a balancing act

michael dell was a relative unknown not too long ago...look what he has done...he understood that selling a lot of machines with less of a profit margin was the key and he undercut everybody and dell is king in the IT world

personally, i stay with my mac, but that's just me and every day, there are fewer and fewer people like me who go against the grain...i have seen too many people switch to pc and now i actually see graphic designers who are pc side only...that was never the case before...and this all happened during jobs' rule at ceo...granted, the original imac and ibook were a boost that helped save apple but since the investors fell away and stock value went down, it has been a scary ride...living where i do near apple, i get to see the apple employees and resellers all the time and the mood has been really down from what i have seen...in 1998, apple seemed so invincible with their bondi blue imac and if you asked anybody then, we all thought apple could get a quarter of the market (those were the days)
 
The Sweet Spot

do i think jobs is better than gil as ceo? too early to say, maybe...high profit margin works better for software as opposed to hardware, apple should not price itself out of the market and as some lisa owners say it was better than mac, mac lived because it was not too expensive relatively compared to the market...it is a balancing act
Click to expand...
You're right. It is a balance to find that "Sweet Spot" between market share and profits. Maybe Jobs is skewed a little too much towards profits. Maybe Amelio was skewed a little too much to market share.

Personally, I think that 2 of the 4 Mac Lines are priced very competitively, when compared to PCs feature-to-feature. You get a lot of computer for the $$$ with the iBook and iMacs.

michael dell was a relative unknown not too long ago...look what he has done...he understood that selling a lot of machines with less of a profit margin was the key and he undercut everybody and dell is king in the IT world
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In my opinion, volume sales only work with commodity products. PCs are commodities. Macs, for whatever reasons, are not.

As far as the morale over at Apple, I can't comment. But I assume that it's better now than when Gil was in charge.
 
gil was not loved, and neither is steve jobs, but i don't think any ceo at apple was well liked and all i have heard my whole life is complaints

i hate to admit it, but scully took apple to the big leagues and that is why steve jobs brought scully in which truly was the best decision for apple and it was regrettable that scully had to fire jobs, but even jobs admitted that he learned his lesson running next

there is no doubt today's steve jobs is smarter than yesteryear's steve jobs

there are still too many people who are left out of the apple loop, especially many state and uc students who work full time just to survive, who can never afford the ibook or imac which is developed right in their backyard...it is a shame

go to san jose state sometime and you will see these poor students mostly stuck with emachines and used pentiums as they try to get thru college in six years because they have to work and sometimes support a baby or two...that is the norm from what i have seen and many students at the country club monterey peninsula college nearby complain that macs are priced too high...in class the other day, i saw a poor vietnamese kid get ridiculed for having a 366 mhz pc, but he bravely said, "hey, it gets the job done"

we are not all upper middle class and the majority of americans cannot afford a mac

i call for an ultra inexpensive mac which is geared for the starving college student...something around 500 dollars

sorry for the rant but i am a racial minority (asian american) and very aware of the digital divide and the nearly 150 million americans who do not have access to computers but america is turning into the digital haves and have nots

i am the staunchest of democrats but i do agree with a mission newt gingrich once had while speaker of the house to put a computer into every child's hand (in the 1990s) in america and he said this is the single most important thing for the usa...he was right and it disturbs me that clinton and gore did not take that to heart

if george bush puts a computer into every american's hand, i will vote for him next time and even put up election placards
 
Jeff,

I hear you on all of those issues, but I don't think that it's in Apple's best interest to provide $500 Macs. The only way they can afford to sell $500 Macs is to lower the quality to the point where it's detrimental to the image of Apple.

Are things that bad out in California these days? I went to Drexel in Philly and you were required to have access to a Mac in order to go to school. Most students had their own Macs. Yes, Drexel is a private university, but very few students would fall in the category that I would classify as "RICH".

I know that the cost of living out in California is ridiculous, but if you don't want to move, then you have to put up with the situation.

And as for Macs costing too much, I beg to differ. There was some guy who bought 2 new iBooks priced at $800 a piece. That's pretty affordable for a relatively modern Mac. But if price is really that big an issue, then a PC is the only way to go. Apple can't compete against the Wintel world on price alone.
 
Originally posted by jefhatfield


we are not all upper middle class and the majority of americans cannot afford a mac

i call for an ultra inexpensive mac which is geared for the starving college student...something around 500 dollars
Click to expand...


Thank you, thank you, thank you. Im glad someone in here has realised Apples greatest flaw. This is Bang on, nail on the head sort of stuff. And this is the one reason i wont get a mac within the next 1-2 years, they just dont cater for people who cant afford a mac (like me).



(By the way, although the itanium was an impressive piece of kit in design it was really software and intels lack of knowledge in that field which lets it down. So the G5 might not be as powerful, but its not as far away as all that.)
 
It's rediculous.

The only way to get out of California is to get a "golden parachute". Otherwise you have no spare cash to save up for a relocation fund.
 
Originally posted by ftaok
Jeff,

I hear you on all of those issues, but I don't think that it's in Apple's best interest to provide $500 Macs. The only way they can afford to sell $500 Macs is to lower the quality to the point where it's detrimental to the image of Apple.

Are things that bad out in California these days? I went to Drexel in Philly and you were required to have access to a Mac in order to go to school. Most students had their own Macs. Yes, Drexel is a private university, but very few students would fall in the category that I would classify as "RICH".

I know that the cost of living out in California is ridiculous, but if you don't want to move, then you have to put up with the situation.

And as for Macs costing too much, I beg to differ. There was some guy who bought 2 new iBooks priced at $800 a piece. That's pretty affordable for a relatively modern Mac. But if price is really that big an issue, then a PC is the only way to go. Apple can't compete against the Wintel world on price alone.
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No, the quality doesnt have to be sacrifised but speed does. Ofcourse it wouldnt be as fast, but thats what you get if you make a budget PC.


you miss the point:

"And as for Macs costing too much, I beg to differ. There was some guy who bought 2 new iBooks priced at $800 a piece"


That is not affordable at all, i cannot afford it and most of my friends cant.
Affordable=$500
dont mix up value for money and affordability. value for money is great, but if you cant afford it in the first place then it is no good to you. So value for money is not the issue, price is.
 
also.

It is probably hard for alot of you to understand what me and jef agree on.
The average mac user is richer than the average PC user, so its likely that alot of you wont understand what a budget computer really is.
 
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