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G5 Quake 3 Bechmarks -- the final word?

i think the difference is that Mac's do have the better OS-- i'm not questioning that.

However, PC's are better for bleeding edge technology--if that's your thing --simply b/c PC's have a much wider variety of manufacturers developing hardware/software for them.

This is the very same reason that PC's tend to cost ALOT less -- simple b/c the technology moves so fast that only the newest will cost a premium (i.e. wait 2-3 months and the "new stuff" is almost half-price).

I'd really like to try OS X--i guess the only option right now for me is to go borrow my friend's Imac :)

On games being ported...i know blizzard has been faithful -- the funny thing is, as a pc user, i have only really played blizzard games so i guess i woulnd' thave mattered if i was a pc or mac user anyway :) haha...the irony.
 
Originally posted by Mav451
i think the difference is that Mac's do have the better OS-- i'm not questioning that.

However, PC's are better for bleeding edge technology--if that's your thing --simply b/c PC's have a much wider variety of manufacturers developing hardware/software for them.

This is the very same reason that PC's tend to cost ALOT less -- simple b/c the technology moves so fast that only the newest will cost a premium (i.e. wait 2-3 months and the "new stuff" is almost half-price).

I'd really like to try OS X--i guess the only option right now for me is to go borrow my friend's Imac :)

.
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Pcs may have some of the bleeding edge tech, but quite a bit comes from the mac,amazing when you consider how small apple is.
If you haven't tried OSX on a new Mac with its included software I can see why PC users think a Mac is overpriced. I bought a new Emac for $1300 with a dvd burner and its a great package, you can do full productions in it, and I have been in front of my televison. I was looking a some expensive PCs this week that cost more than a Mac, and it came with crap software and with built in firewire that didn't work well enough to capture video.
I wonder how many pcs users drive suv's and cry about the price of a Mac? Silly.
daniel
 
i would think that it's the otherway around.

The very hypertransport that Mac touts is made by AMD, not Mac.

PCI-X has been in opteron boxes since june.

I build my OWN computers that cost less than 400bucks for each upgrade cycle.

Take for example my current configuration. I decided to swap out my old Asus A7V mobo based on the aging via kt133 technology, to be replaced by the more common Nforce2 motherboard of today.

a7n8x cost 114 bucks at the time of the purchase. The cpu upgrade cost 87 bucks, the ram was 84 bucks total, and the 185.5 GB hard drive was 160 bucks.

Total: $446 (all bought from NewEgg.com)

I prefer to catch technology at the back end, saving me well over 50% of what i would be spending at the time of its initial release.
I am not an exorbitant spender. I prefer to get the best value for my money. I'm not saying that what i have is better than macs. it simply fits my budget better (400 buck upgrade every 3 years).

Oh and lastly, i drive a civic.
 
opteron is a server based machine. the powermac is probably the first desktop machine under 3000 to have pci -x, 64 bit, and so on and so on. correct me if im wrong.

iJon
 
well opteron has 1,2,4-way options.

i mention 1-way b/c computer have generally been considered desktop systems when only one processor is used...however macs have been using dual cpu's for quite a while.

Yes the opteron was designed as a server chip. But the opteron is essentially what the athlon 64 will be in the fall (minus some things here and there)-- so opteron CAN be kinda of an between. I'm not even sure where to define the mac b/c it has dual processors -- and has had that since the g4 days (which goes back to when the p4 williamette's were just released).

I consider the Mac server chip b/c it has many technologies that the opteron is ALSO using (HT, pci-x, 64bit, etc.)...but the mac is the first one to be MARKETED to the public as a desktop. Mac's also dont' distinguish between server boards/desktop boards...kind of all in one package :)
 
but answer this, how much does a dual opteron cost compared to the dual g5?

iJon
 
yes in that case you are right. In no right mind would i buy an opteron box unless i was using it for a server.

point taken *_*
 
Originally posted by Mav451
yes in that case you are right. In no right mind would i buy an opteron box unless i was using it for a server.

point taken *_*
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i wasnt trying to shut you out, i was just curious. thanks for the info.

iJon
 
Originally posted by fourthtunz

I wonder how many pcs users drive suv's and cry about the price of a Mac? Silly.
daniel
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that has to be one of the dumbest things ive heard. i have lots of friends who drive suv's and cant afford a mac. if you think everyone who drives and suv is rich than you are stupid.

iJon
 
Interesting thread, Barefeats recently (June 28) performed the Quake III demo 4 benchmark in 1024x768 resolution and 640x480 resolution, default settings, with sound enabled and turned to high quality, and no console tweaks. The test system used a 3.00 GHz Pentium 4c (800 MHz FSB), Dual Channel DDR-400 and had a Radeon 9700 (Pro?) video card. Despite having a older video card (in comparison to the Radeon 9800 Pro used by Apple), the Pentium 4 did significantly better, scoring 30 FPS higher than Apple's Pentium 4 system.
 
Originally posted by iJon
but answer this, how much does a dual opteron cost compared to the dual g5?

iJon
Click to expand...

Around $2600 for a dual 1.4 GHz Opteron workstation with 1 GB RAM, Quadro FX500 video card, and 120 gig hard-drive, around $3600 for a dual 1.8 GHz/1.6 GHz Opteron workstation with the same specifications. I suspect that only the 1.6/1.8 GHz models can compete against a Dual 2 GHz G5 so we've still got the best price/performance if not also the performance crown. Oh well, time well tell.
 
Didn't even read the 2nd page of this thread, but its nice to see another Mac vs. PC benchmark thread that gives us different values. Its difficult to get the hardware EXACTLY equal or comparable. Lets just say that they're both fast. 300fps is fast....DAMN fast. It doesn't matter anymore, whether the PC is overclocked to 3.6GHz or whatever. Plus the fact that Quake 3 is still being used makes the comparison quite unnecessary right now. Wait for the new Doom game.
 
Originally posted by iJon
that has to be one of the dumbest things ive heard. i have lots of friends who drive suv's and cant afford a mac. if you think everyone who drives and suv is rich than you are stupid.

iJon
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Do you feel better now? Easy, don't forget to breath:)
How many times have you heard, I can build my own pcceee for so much less? I was just wondering why a $3000 computer gets people worked up? We're not talking alot of money here!!?
How many people cry about the Mac prices but drive expensive suvs, which most cost more to buy and more to drive?
Maybe if your friends bought a civic that got better mileage they could afford a mac
:D
daniel
 
Originally posted by Mav451
i would think that it's the otherway around.

The very hypertransport that Mac touts is made by AMD, not Mac.

PCI-X has been in opteron boxes since june.

I build my OWN computers that cost less than 400bucks for each upgrade cycle.

(400 buck upgrade every 3 years).

Oh and lastly, i drive a civic.
Click to expand...

Oh I didn't say that there weren't other companies inovating, just that apple does well for its size. The Ipod,firewire,usb(an intel implementation of apple tech)among many others. But you focus just on hardware, the os and the included software for imaging,video and such is very good. I use my Macs to make my living with clients in the room, so they have to work and they do.
I am aware that you can build a cheap pc but that has nothing to do with getting work done. The real test for a computer is when you starting adding internal and external hardware like Digidesign, avid or firewire gear. Out of the box the Mac is ready to go to work and when you make your living off them, it matters.
If you are carefull you can sell and buy Macs every 6 months or so and lose only$150 , they hold their value so well.
I love hondas! We just sold our civic to get my wife an accord, nice car! I have a 93 corolla wagon, so I'm not rich either
:)
daniel
 
Q3A is a lame benchmark. Computers are fast enough now that the limiting factor is the video card and it's drivers. As others have noted, anything over 100fps is useless, as that is faster then the refresh rate on your monitor. Would be nice to see numbers for the 2 machines, on the same 1600*1200 monitor, with everything cranked to the max. 640*480 is just a lame attempt to show a big number. 1024*768 is only used on lower end machines now (like my 4 yr old laptop). What is the point of these benchmarks of the latest and greatest machinery, and then run the numbers at 1 unused resolution, and the 2nd at what is now the defacto bare minimum of any new desktop sold today?

UT2k3, or DOOM3 when it shows up, those will be better benchmark games.
 
Originally posted by Jookbox
you'd be surprised how many people here still believe windows is unstable.
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No doubt you meant to say "isn't." Typos - I understand. ;-)

But seriously, XP/2k/NT are a serious improvement over the 9x series, but still have a ways to go. Unless you want to tell my friend that the data corruption issues (which unfortunately have led to a large loss of data) that plague her WinXP Sony laptop are a figment of her imagination (the hardware is fine - it's an OS problem).
 
Originally posted by iJon
that has to be one of the dumbest things ive heard. i have lots of friends who drive suv's and cant afford a mac. if you think everyone who drives and suv is rich than you are stupid.

iJon
Click to expand...

What??

You can buy a Mac for $799 (I wouldn't really say it's a good Mac, but you said "can't afford a Mac," not "can't afford a good Mac."). Where on earth can you buy an SUV for $799 or less? Yeesh.
 
You will always hear about people saying they can build their PC's for less because it is a fact. You cannot order Mac hardware from anywhere else except Apple.

With no competition in retailers of Apple hardware, prices do not go down as fast as they would in the PC world.

I am SURE that if Apple users were given the option of assembling the PowerMac by themselves (i.e. several enthusiast sites selling similar hardware) that the parts would be much cheaper.

If you want the G5, you can't just buy the motherboard, processor, and case by itself. Apple will only sell it to you as a package.

Many PC retailers consistently drive up costs of pre-built PC's--that is why Alienware/Falcon northwest have ridiculous pricing for computers, when self-built would be hundreds if not thousands less--that's why websites like NewEgg.com, gameve.com, and googlegear.com exist--to provide cheaper alternatives.
 
Originally posted by Mav451
You will always hear about people saying they can build their PC's for less because it is a fact.

I am SURE that if Apple users were given the option of assembling the PowerMac by themselves (i.e. several enthusiast sites selling similar hardware) that the parts would be much cheaper.
Click to expand...

Yes, We know that you can build a PC for less,but this is not news to anyone:eek: We've heard it many times before.
For many mac people it is about the Mac as a whole not just the hardware. I'm sure some would build a Mac if they could.
You can upgrade even a 7 or 8 year old mac and have a fast machine for not too much, if you wanted to.
I think most people don't want to build a computer and could not get it to work in a real work environment if they could.
Do you own or use a new Mac? This might change your views.
You can buy an imac for $799, why build a machine at those prices?
daniel
 
But what i'm saying is that if Apple users were given an option to buy the G5 system from an alternate retailer--would it make the powermac in general cheaper to afford? Competition drives down prices but there is no direct apple-apple competition.

Now I realize most of the world is not tech-savvy...that is why so many people buy computers in a box: both mac and PC.

I'm just offering the thought of the possibility of having alternative retailers for apple hardware--though alot of users already like the centralized nature of a single company providing for all their needs.

I'm saying this because about 10 years ago, when 75mhz 486's were "fast" - it cost my family nearly 4,000dollars to buy it. Back then there was no internet--no other option then buying it from expensive retailers (i.e. in store or through catalogs).
 
OK...

PC - cheaper, easier to upgrade.
Mac - easier to use, more reliable, better resale value.

Upgrading your PC by swapping motherbaords is great - but selling a Mac nets good $$$.

Now...

How about a benchmark of the 1.6 GHz G5? Anyone? They MUST be out there. I'm really considerig saving $300 and getting a dual G4 with 9-booting.
 
my point still stands. im saying just because what car you drive doenst me what you can and cant afford in mac terms. my friends suv's they drive are used and its what there parents bought them. some people dont buy macs because the extra price doesnt justify it over a pc that you can build for 500 dollars, or hell, compaq sells a nice machine for about that much. all im saying in the teenager world, what car you drive doesnt mean jack**** about money. now i can understand an adult driving a 2003 suburban or an x5, but still that doesnt mean they are rich. they can be paying it off and cant afford a nice mac at the time.

iJon
 
Originally posted by iJon
my point still stands. im saying just because what car you drive doenst me what you can and cant afford in mac terms. my friends suv's they drive are used and its what there parents bought them. some people dont buy macs because the extra price doesnt justify it over a pc that you can build for 500 dollars, or hell, compaq sells a nice machine for about that much. all im saying in the teenager world, what car you drive doesnt mean jack**** about money. now i can understand an adult driving a 2003 suburban or an x5, but still that doesnt mean they are rich. they can be paying it off and cant afford a nice mac at the time.

iJon
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You missed my point. I'm talking about the people who actually pay for the cars and computers. The "teen world" is not the real world. I didn't mean to start a class war. I'm just saying $3000 for a Mac isn't the end of the world. I don't understand why someone who can't afford a mac or doesn't like them would come to a Mac site, I don't go to pc sites.
Hey I guess we all have to vent somewhere, peace
daniel:)
 
Originally posted by fourthtunz
You missed my point. I'm talking about the people who actually pay for the cars and computers. The "teen world" is not the real world. I didn't mean to start a class war. I'm just saying $3000 for a Mac isn't the end of the world. I don't understand why someone who can't afford a mac or doesn't like them would come to a Mac site, I don't go to pc sites.
Hey I guess we all have to vent somewhere, peace
daniel:)
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ok good we cleared it up. just wanted to make sure we were on the same page.

iJon
 
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