Game Center

[iPhone3gPSU]

Did Jobs originally say something about a VoIP API being included in Game Center? For some reason, I remember that from back when they announced 4.0 in the Spring. There was no mention of that on Wednesday.

Anyone else remember this?

 

[gage006]

Can't wait to get some games going on this thing. There should at least be some sort of chat system built in. Oh well, I'm sure it's only a matter of time.

Add me! I've added a few of you.

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(yes, it's dot mpeg)

 

[WhoDatWayne]

I am in as well.

Add me: WHODAT

 

[Salacion]

Hopefully Game Center kicks off to a good start. I just don't want all these separate accounts for +Plus and OpenFeint; unification is the way to go.

Should be interesting to see this development progress forward.

 

[iUser4Lyfe]

GameCenter is a great start but until cross platform gaming comes to fruition then Ill be a bit underwhelmed. I want to beat all my android friends asses in some handheld gaming.

**Of course Android needs some games first lolol

 

[Knowlege Bomb]

I don't see what everybodys beef with OpenFeint is... Sure it's pretty limited when it comes to the social aspect but I like the achievements thing.

I've added most of you in Game Center. Kelington is my name.

 

[Daveoc64]

Did Jobs originally say something about a VoIP API being included in Game Center? For some reason, I remember that from back when they announced 4.0 in the Spring. There was no mention of that on Wednesday.

Anyone else remember this?

That API is in GameKit (i.e. the set of APIs that developers use to interface with Game Center).

 

[andybno1]

If its not live why not include it in the 4.1 update and then have lots of games use it. Like I said the idea is good but the execution is quite un-apple like in this case.

it's been available via the 4.0 beta since they started seeding 4.0 to devs it's nothing new, it's there so dev can test their games before the official release so the execution isn't bad as it's only in the beta not an official release.... if your going to look at it from that POV what about all the 4.0 features in beta? were they un-apple like in execution cause they were in a beta too?... i.e multitasking... no official app supported it durin beta but it was available

 

[iPhone3gPSU]

That API is in GameKit (i.e. the set of APIs that developers use to interface with Game Center).

Oh, cool! I just figured it wasn't because it wasn't demoed. I would have thought this was a feature worth highlighting in a new game.

Thanks!

 

[Daveoc64]

it's been available via the 4.0 beta since they started seeding 4.0 to devs it's nothing new, it's there so dev can test their games before the official release so the execution isn't bad as it's only in the beta not an official release.... if your going to look at it from that POV what about all the 4.0 features in beta? were they un-apple like in execution cause they were in a beta too?... i.e multitasking... no official app supported it durin beta but it was available

People don't realise what the problem is here.

It's not that Game Center isn't out yet, nor is it that it is in beta (it isn't) - it simply doesn't have features that users and developers should expect it to have.

The APIs are final, the Game Center app itself is final.

Fixing the issues Game Center has would require some serious changes to the entire framework.

 

[shandyman]

People don't realise what the problem is here.

It's not that Game Center isn't out yet, nor is it that it is in beta (it isn't) - it simply doesn't have features that users and developers should expect it to have.

The APIs are final, the Game Center app itself is final.

Fixing the issues Game Center has would require some serious changes to the entire framework.

who's to say that game center can't do messages? there are api's about that let apps send messages from within the app, like vlingo composes the email in the app, it could use that for it? as someone said, in the gamekit, there's an api for VOIP. Also, who's to say that apple won't add more API's over the next couple of months for an update in 4.2?

anyway, i think apple are aiming to have a good stable system at launch then gradually add more features. xbox live at it's start didn't have everything it does now, your comparison of the windows phones using xbox live is a bit of a stretch as really microsoft already had the infrastructure in place for it as xbox live has been up and running for years. now if you were comparing game center to xbox at it's original launch with the original xbox, you might have had a good basis for your comparison.

 

[Daveoc64]

anyway, i think apple are aiming to have a good stable system at launch then gradually add more features. xbox live at it's start didn't have everything it does now, your comparison of the windows phones using xbox live is a bit of a stretch as really microsoft already had the infrastructure in place for it as xbox live has been up and running for years. now if you were comparing game center to xbox at it's original launch with the original xbox, you might have had a good basis for your comparison.

A more valid comparison is Sony.

Microsoft saw the importance of the online space and they made sure that certain hardware and software design choices were made to protect future growth of the Original Xbox, Xbox 360 and Xbox LIVE.

Sony on the other hand, really didn't consider some of these issues when they made the PS3. Things like Custom Soundtracks and cross-game chat worked from day one on the Xbox 360. But Sony didn't think about those features from day one, so they couldn't give developers the APIs to interact with those features. Sony added custom soundtracks with an update, but because older games didn't interact with the feature, it could only be used with new titles.

Apple would be faced with the same problem. Right now a developer must provide their own Achievement notification with Game Center (including sound). If Apple wanted to implement a standardized notification of its own at a later date, the whole point of doing that would be defeated. Some games would support it, others wouldn't. It couldn't possibly be standardized.

who's to say that game center can't do messages? there are api's about that let apps send messages from within the app, like vlingo composes the email in the app, it could use that for it?

That isn't a valid substitute for basic messages sent between people playing in Game Center games. Do you really want to give a stranger you met in matchmaking your phone number or email address? Then pay to send them messages?

Games are either not going to have any messaging system built in, or they will use their own system. Either way, it's not the foundation of a cohesive community.

as someone said, in the gamekit, there's an api for VOIP. Also, who's to say that apple won't add more API's over the next couple of months for an update in 4.2?

As I said above, if you don't do these things from the start, it's too late. The technical complexity of implementing such a basic feature becomes incredible when you are working with existing code.

 

[shandyman]

That isn't a valid substitute for basic messages sent between people playing in Game Center games. Do you really want to give a stranger you met in matchmaking your phone number or email address? Then pay to send them messages?

Games are either not going to have any messaging system built in, or they will use their own system. Either way, it's not the foundation of a cohesive community.

i am saying it could use the similar API but base it on the game center login without giving out the email address, all done behind the scenes, we do not know for sure. no matter how messages are done, we're paying, as it will b using data, it would never be SMS based.

As I said above, if you don't do these things from the start, it's too late. The technical complexity of implementing such a basic feature becomes incredible when you are working with existing code.

not true, multitasking came out with more API's and developers updated their apps accordingly, so really this will be no different.

if apple want to get it done, it will. are you totally glossing over that there's a VOIP API in the GameKit? so if developers utilise it, there's that.

we're not going to get everything we want off the bat, no-one ever does. i'd prefer a basic system that works out of the box and other stuff added to it than it coming out with all these features then doesn't work properly as servers cannot handle it. only reason that windows phones get all their stuff off the bat is due to xbox live already being there set up, PC's can access it, so really it's a small thing to interconnect the mobile service, as opposed to starting from scratch.

 

[marksman]

People don't realise what the problem is here.

It's not that Game Center isn't out yet, nor is it that it is in beta (it isn't) - it simply doesn't have features that users and developers should expect it to have.

The APIs are final, the Game Center app itself is final.

Fixing the issues Game Center has would require some serious changes to the entire framework.

You keep saying this like you know what you are talking about... but they can change and add things to it as it evolves.

I don't know why you keep ignorantly making the same erroneous point over and over... and you didn't answer my question. Do you know Josie Gibson?

 

[elie.fares]

I'm in

Username: eliefares13

 

[Daveoc64]

You keep saying this like you know what you are talking about... but they can change and add things to it as it evolves.

I don't know why you keep ignorantly making the same erroneous point over and over...

Of course they can add things to it.

What everyone is missing is that if just ONE game comes out without these features and isn't updated, then having a cohesive platform will be impossible.

These aren't bonus features that might be nice to have, these are very basic things that the framework should have done from day one.

and you didn't answer my question. Do you know Josie Gibson?

I have no idea who that is, so I didn't answer. I'm not sure how it's relevant to this topic.

 

[Daveoc64]

i am saying it could use the similar API but base it on the game center login without giving out the email address, all done behind the scenes, we do not know for sure. no matter how messages are done, we're paying, as it will b using data, it would never be SMS based.

That would be very messy if it doesn't work with existing games.

not true, multitasking came out with more API's and developers updated their apps accordingly, so really this will be no different.

It's entirely different. In order for games to support new API features (such as messaging or a consistent achievement UI), they must be updated to do so.

That's never going to happen with every Game (assuming Apple ever actually bothers to add APIs like that).

The reason that I and others are complaining is simply that these things needed to be there from day one in order to be effective.

What's the point of adding a standardized UI element if it isn't standardized!?

if apple want to get it done, it will. are you totally glossing over that there's a VOIP API in the GameKit? so if developers utilise it, there's that.

I'm not going to gloss over that, but I feel that it's a case of GameKit doing spaceflight before it can walk. It's very good that Apple has implemented this feature. I was so impressed with that when they announced it that I completely overlooked that more basic features were missing.

 

[shandyman]

That would be very messy if it doesn't work with existing games.

that's in your opinion, it's all just hypothetical at the moment. unless you work for apple you're not going to know anything for sure.

It's entirely different. In order for games to support new API features (such as messaging or a consistent achievement UI), they must be updated to do so. That's never going to happen with every Game (assuming Apple ever actually bothers to add APIs like that).

no it's not, cos in order for apps to support the multitasking features, it had to be updated too... also it's in the game developers best interest to keep them up to date or they'd end up getting negative reviews and people will just stay away from their apps/games.

The reason that I and others are complaining is simply that these things needed to be there from day one in order to be effective.

What's the point of adding a standardized UI element if it isn't standardized!?

i counter that to what's the point of throwing in umpteen snazzy features straight off the bat if it's going to go tits up and break. also if you have VOIP in games, do you need messaging too? personally i don't want random people messaging me, just my friends, and since they can just email/text/call/skype/message via beejive or whatnot, what does it matter? the onyl time i use the ingame chat on xbox live is when i'm doing team stuff to co-ordinate, otherwise i turn it off as its just kids or immature adults.

like i said, am sure messaging will come in at some point, sometimes apple doesn't put some things that some people call basic features in, it's a given these days, look at copy and paste, multitasking, etc.

anyway, i'm leaving it there from me, as you obviously seem to know more than apple do about what they're doing.....

 

[marksman]

Of course they can add things to it.

What everyone is missing is that if just ONE game comes out without these features and isn't updated, then having a cohesive platform will be impossible.

These aren't bonus features that might be nice to have, these are very basic things that the framework should have done from day one.

What you are missing is this is not xboxlive or whatever else you are comparing it to in your mind. It is very easy for developers to update their apps to be compatible with any updates and changes. There is no pressure to try and force everything in there at the beginning without even knowing for sure how and what is going to work.

If some developers don't update their apps with the changes, so what? You seem to think that is some significant problem that nobody else thinks it is. If games don't update themselves to be compatible, they will likely not continue to sell or be played. The marketplace will determine that.

 

[Daveoc64]

What you are missing is this is not xboxlive or whatever else you are comparing it to in your mind. It is very easy for developers to update their apps to be compatible with any updates and changes. There is no pressure to try and force everything in there at the beginning without even knowing for sure how and what is going to work.

If some developers don't update their apps with the changes, so what? You seem to think that is some significant problem that nobody else thinks it is. If games don't update themselves to be compatible, they will likely not continue to sell or be played. The marketplace will determine that.

I'm not the only one saying this.

People are looking at Windows Phone 7 and saying that the Xbox LIVE functionality is the best feature of the phone.

IMO WP7 has serious issues in other areas, but they really have got the game functionality nailed.

Apple had an opportunity here to match what Microsoft is doing (and what all of those 3rd party services like OpenFeint and Crystal are already doing on iOS), yet they've fallen short - and it's not because they can't do these things, it's because they've chosen not to.

 

[Daveoc64]

i counter that to what's the point of throwing in umpteen snazzy features straight off the bat if it's going to go tits up and break.

I'm not talking about "snazzy features" or even very many.

The basic thing I have an issue with is the lack of UI for various things.

The whole point of GameKit is to provide the user with a consistent gaming experience across games. Developers can make games that fit in to a rich gaming platform. The Game Center app lets users see what their friends have been playing and to view all of their achievements with a consistent interface.

GameKit fails to do this effectively, purely because most of the features do not have a user interface provided for them.

Xbox LIVE lets developers bring up native UI controls for so many things with just a line of code. With GameKit, developers can't even link to the Game Center app so that players can check their achievements that way.

 

[Loves2spoon]

One thing that bothers me about GameCenter is even with notifications off it still toots the horn when someone accepts your friend request.

Not fun waking up at 6am to that noise! lol

 

[richxps]

Gmaecenter tag - richxps

 

[Jare]

Add me.

Game Center: Jare

 

[Meyvn]

To make it easier for Apple and better for everyone, I think Game Center should have been a download from the App Store so that it can be easily updated with things like messaging and whatever else people might want. From the looks of it Apple would have to include any Game Center updates into a firmware update.

I see where you're coming from, but I disagree; I would rather there be absolute market penetration. If every single iOS user has it by default, there's a greater chance of them discovering it, increasing the userbase. If it's a download-only app, plenty of people aren't going to bother, and it's got less of a chance of taking off. To me, that's worth waiting a tad longer for updates to the app itself.