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You think a couple of devs leaving the iPhone means anything in the grand scheme of the app store market? Not a chance. For every one that leaves, hundreds (thousands) more join, some who are high profile, and some who will be.

Impact of some devs leaving the iPhone (and NOT going to other mobile platforms, too boot!) is virtually ZERO. The iPhone has too much momentum, too much popularity, too much mindshare, and too much promise to be derailed by that. The devs live with the app store or they don't. The vast majority (and there are many of them), have chosen to live with it. And most importantly, Apple is improving the App Store processes. It isn't perfect, but it sure as hell is the best out there. So a few devs leaving the iPhone isn't really news, and is at best, an indication that the app store is imperfect, something we've known for a while. Apple has been working to improve it, and that's something that the competition should fear.

So why is it big news when devs leave Android, or just aren't interested in the platform? It's big news because Android has received a great deal of publicity, has been spun into the Next Big Thing, is desperately in need of developers and some serious attention, and here's a high profile developer that just isn't interested. Android is the one platform that has been singled out by pundits as the preeminent iPhone rival, and it is in dire need of developers. Given all the hype, the disinterst of Gameloft (and likely others) seems to run counter to all the hype, especially the hype about Droid, which surprisingly, enjoyed at best a lukewarm reception. The trials and tribulations of iPhone competitors are always big news, for obvious reasons.

Delusional much ? The impact is the same for Android and iPhone. In fact, I'd think big name devs leaving iPhone is much worse, since as you say, it's better established, has more mindshare. Why would you leave it if it was such a winner ?

Especially when we're talking about guys like Rogue Amoeba...

You can try to spin this as positively as you want, the fact is, it's not good for either platforms when devs leave. It's also showing quite a bit of bias for Macrumors to put this Android news up on the front page, but to hide the iPhone devs news deeper on the site.

Why am I arguing with you anyway ? You're the biggest Apple fanboy on this site... They can do no wrong (but yet they are 3rd in market share with the iPhone and the first gen iPhone had as much problems piercing the market as first gen Android devices did).
 
Delusional much ? The impact is the same for Android and iPhone. In fact, I'd think big name devs leaving iPhone is much worse, since as you say, it's better established, has more mindshare. Why would you leave it if it was such a winner ?

Especially when we're talking about guys like Rogue Amoeba...

You can try to spin this as positively as you want, the fact is, it's not good for either platforms when devs leave. It's also showing quite a bit of bias for Macrumors to put this Android news up on the front page, but to hide the iPhone devs news deeper on the site.

Why am I arguing with you anyway ? You're the biggest Apple fanboy on this site... They can do no wrong (but yet they are 3rd in market share with the iPhone and the first gen iPhone had as much problems piercing the market as first gen Android devices did).

Where is Android in the market?

Oh, I'm sorry. I was under the impression that the Droid just came out earlier this month. I didn't know they had time for a comprehensive study already between Android 2.0 and iPhone OS 3.1. Do you have links to these studies?

I don't need no figures. I just need to look at historical data and trends. Apple and the iphone have been on top in satisfaction rates ever since the first iphone was released in 2007 and no Android 2.0 or Droid will change that! There is not a big enough leap for that to happen.

he never implied that there aren't free apps on the iPhone. He just said he prefers open source apps, and I guess many people would agree with him.

So what, he tried to make it seem like the iphone has no free apps and all the apps are paid apps.



For one thing, since those customers have an iPhone in the first place, they are obviously going to rate it positive. Nobody saying the iPhone is a bad device.

Now, you are making a awful assumption, a terrible logic flaw, saying that since X product is selling more or being rated better than product Y, product Y must be an inferior product. There are many reasons why people prefer an iPhone (including service provider, apps, or just brand name) and there are many reasons why others prefer a Droid.

What you wrote makes no sense, if I have an iphone and it is a crap phone why the heck would I rate is positive? Those studies show that on average more iphone users are happy with their phone than phones from other companies. You can try and spin it however you want. It still doesn't change the fact that the iphone has the highest satisfaction rates.

Where did I bring up any sales data. I just said that on average iphone users are more satisified with their phones than on other platforms including Android. If you don't understand it, I don't know how to further explain it.



if the apps are actually being released for free by the developers, how in the ****ing world is this piracy?

What does that have to do with the fact that developers aren't making money off Android?

The same place the iPhone was before the 3G launched in 2008.

So the iphone had 3 percent of smartphone users at the end of it's first year?
 
Everything about Android is generic. The way it looks, the way it feels, the numerous devices it runs on.

The iPhone? Anything but generic. As long as the iPhone exists and as long as Apple keeps devloping it, the other players will have an extremely difficult time. Nokia is dropping in share, and the iPhone, in the span of two years, is within about 2% of RIM. That's not just startling, it's phenomenal.

With the lukewarm reception of Droid, things aren't looking to good for Android.There's not much differentiation going on there. Too generic. No gestalt. In short, it lacks Apple's style. Which is a big problem.
 
Google is not the only one bleeding devs for their phone platform, Apple is also facing developper exodus :

http://www.techcrunch.com/2009/11/1...ssively-popular-iphone-app-quits-the-project/
http://arstechnica.com/apple/news/2009/11/respected-developers-fleeing-from-app-store-platform.ars

Kind of disapointing Macrumors chooses to report on the competition, but not the iPhone itself. It's not like Apple is fairing any better.

Wait, this is different than 1 Android developper... how exactly ?

Gameloft is 1 dev, Apple has more (read the article from Ars I posted, they actually list a lot more than 2 developpers).

Stop fanboying and read. Apple is having as much problems as Android, as Palm as whoever. The thing is people are now realising that mobile apps aren't a goldmine on any platform. The gold rush is over for everyone.
You're wrong, here's why:

1) Palm is a dying company, unable to release a successful product. Their sales are dwindling and their quarterly losses are increasing. Apple, on the other hand, has created a product so wildly successful that the rest of smart phone market is scrambling to imitate it. The only comparison to be made between these two companies vis a vis mobile phones is that one has succeeded while the other has failed. A glance at the financials of both companies will reinforce this point. One is trying to keep up with skyrocketing sales while the other is trying to stave off bankruptcy. So, no, to put it mildly Apple does not have the same problems as Palm.

2) Android has a number of problems that are endemic to the OS itself and therefore are not shared by the iPhone. First, it's crippled by having only 512MB of application storage. That's a pretty severe limitation even for general purpose mobile computing and essentially rules it out as a gaming platform. Second, as a freely licensed and open source OS, the ever increasing number of hardware variations and carrier customizations add a level of complexity that doesn't exist on the iPhone (yes, there are iPhone variations, but far fewer of them). Third, with no guarantee that new versions of Android will work on existing handsets, there will be quite a few different versions floating around at any given time. This adds the problem of OS diversity to the problem of hardware diversity, resulting in a large number of combinations that need to be supported (particularly a problem for indy developers). Another, not frequently mentioned problem with Android is it's use of Google's Dalvik VM. Dalvik runs interpreted bytecode with no JIT compilation, making it quite slow by modern standards. Natively compiled Android apps are possible but they require the use of a separate SDK. By comparison, the iPhone has a single SDK that produces fast, natively compiled code and allows you to drop down to C and C++ where needed.

People I know who've used a Droid side by side with an iPhone say that the performance difference is noticeable, especially in terms of UI responsiveness (a conclusion also reached in this review on Gizmodo). While the performance of Dalvik will get better over time, it's unlikely to ever match the speed and efficiency of native code on the iPhone. Performance problems at the very core of a platform are far more significant than problems with an application review policy. So, contrary to your opinion, Android has a number of intractable problems that the iPhone does not have.

3) Regarding developer abandonment: the announcement by Gameloft represents a measurable loss of development resources for Android. If other companies follow suit, it will have a significant, negative impact on Android's future. By comparison, a few indy developers leaving the iPhone makes no difference, and calling it an "exodus" is laughable. Like most things Apple-related, developers who publicly criticize the platform receive a disproportionate amount of coverage. That shouldn't be mistaken for an actual trend.

By all measures, the iPhone development community is very healthy and growing by leaps and bounds. The number of independent developers, commitments by software companies and the number of app submissions all continue to grow at an almost alarming rate. The nascent Android development community, on the other hand, hasn't yet demonstrated an ability to generate profits and has already suffered the public defection of a large game development company. Interpreting those entirely different sets of circumstances as "the same problems" requires more than a little magical thinking.
 
So what, he tried to make it seem like the iphone has no free apps and all the apps are paid apps.






What does that have to do with the fact that developers aren't making money off Android?

Well, Jobs originally said 75% of apps are going to be free (lie)

now, 75% of apps are paid, and of the 2 Billion apps downloaded, 90% of them have been free ones.


Now what I find interesting is that independent developers aren't the ones making the big money, actually, they're getting killed by the big corporations that just decided to start developing for the iphone.

so for some reason, you assume that these multi million dollar corporations are not going to develop for other phones?

it's called capitalism, and as long as there is a profit to be made, the games will be made.


this is an interesting article, you should read it.
http://www.mobileorchard.com/price-...-stores-data-shows-whos-making-the-big-money/

What’s noteworthy from the data above is that the top games in terms of revenue (projected by multiplying popularity by price) are not the most popular games overall and nearly all of the top ten are by established players in the games market - Vivendi, SEGA, Apple, PopCap, Gameloft, Xen Games and Electronic Arts. Only Fieldrunners and iHunt are by independent developers (Subatomic Studios and John Moffett respectively).

So established players make the most money. Hardly a shock, but when there are over 2,000 games in the category, it’s amazing to see it hold true so consistently. It helps prove, however, that established brand values are important when it comes to making money, not a low price. Crash Bandicoot, Super Monkey Ball, Bejeweled, Spore, and Tetris are all well known and comfortably established outside of the iPhone world. Competing with these powerful brands requires something extremely compelling, such as Fieldrunners, which has been very successful primarily due to word of mouth (and that it’s a Tower Defense game, which have long been popular online in Flash form).
 
hmmm, give it time. since android isn't confined to one company's hardware

LOL! That's most likely the one reason that is holding back Android in such a big way. There is no consistent experience across Android handsets.

It's basically a more open Windows Mobile, and we know how that one turns out.

Fanboy statement enough? :rolleyes: Motorola Droid/Milestone has higher resolution among other attributes that puts it ahead of the iPhone, but because it's made by Apple.... (your above statement). :confused:

It's the experience, not the feature set (bullet list) that's important.

That's what Apple and their "fanboys" get, and most of the rest of the industry and the haters don't understand.
 
What a silly time for them to quit Android development. The platform is just starting to get wide mainstream advertising and support from handset makers. They're probably going to regret this.
 
Android and iPhone have been around about the same time. I still don't know anybody personally that has an android phone.

Uh ? The iphone launched in June 2007. The G1 launched in October of last year, about 4 months after Apple launched the iPhone 3G.

Rewrite history much ?

You're wrong, here's why:

1) Palm is a dying company, unable to re...

I quit reading your post about here, seeing how I never mentionned Palm at all and your walloftext post seemed like a giant rant starting at "Palm is a dying". Skimmed the rest, seems to me you're trying to convince yourself of something. Relax, competition is good, your beloved iPhone isn't going anywhere just because other handsets exist.

It's the experience, not the feature set (bullet list) that's important.

That's what Apple and their "fanboys" get, and most of the rest of the industry and the haters don't understand.

Ah, the good old "everyone who disagrees with me is wrong" argument.
 
I quit reading your post about here, seeing how I never mentionned Palm at all and your walloftext post seemed like a giant rant starting at "Palm is a dying". Skimmed the rest, seems to me you're trying to convince yourself of something. Relax, competition is good, your beloved iPhone isn't going anywhere just because other handsets exist..

You did indeed mention palm. You said:

"Stop fanboying and read. Apple is having as much problems as Android, as Palm as whoever. The thing is people are now realising that mobile apps aren't a goldmine on any platform. The gold rush is over for everyone."
 
Everything about Android is generic. The way it looks, the way it feels, the numerous devices it runs on.

The iPhone? Anything but generic. As long as the iPhone exists and as long as Apple keeps devloping it, the other players will have an extremely difficult time. Nokia is dropping in share, and the iPhone, in the span of two years, is within about 2% of RIM. That's not just startling, it's phenomenal.

With the lukewarm reception of Droid, things aren't looking to good for Android.There's not much differentiation going on there. Too generic. No gestalt. In short, it lacks Apple's style. Which is a big problem.

Lukewarm reception? :eek: yeah, ok...

Generic? Well that's sort of a personal evaluation, don't you think? Is this a bad time to mention I'm seeing countless people walking around with this oh so terrible generic device? I don't even live in a big city.

And let's not forget that iPhone is shackled to AT&T's abysmal/tiny network. The iPhone simply isn't available in so many places, and people now no longer have to wait for a really nice smartphone.

Put the pom-poms down.
 
I don't need no figures. I just need to look at historical data and trends. Apple and the iphone have been on top in satisfaction rates ever since the first iphone was released in 2007 and no Android 2.0 or Droid will change that! There is not a big enough leap for that to happen.

uh, data and trends are figures. :confused:
 
Lukewarm reception? :eek: yeah, ok...

Generic? Well that's sort of a personal evaluation, don't you think? Is this a bad time to mention I'm seeing countless people walking around with this oh so terrible generic device? I don't even live in a big city.

And let's not forget that iPhone is shackled to AT&T's abysmal/tiny network. The iPhone simply isn't available in so many places, and people now no longer have to wait for a really nice smartphone.

Put the pom-poms down.

Yeah an abysmal and tiny network that supports 80 plus million customers.
 
Lukewarm reception? :eek: yeah, ok...

Generic? Well that's sort of a personal evaluation, don't you think? Is this a bad time to mention I'm seeing countless people walking around with this oh so terrible generic device? I don't even live in a big city.

And let's not forget that iPhone is shackled to AT&T's abysmal/tiny network. The iPhone simply isn't available in so many places, and people now no longer have to wait for a really nice smartphone.

Put the pom-poms down.

It was a worse reception than the Pre got. Sprint's CEO even made the SAME excuse about "not wanting" long lineups or some such nonsense. All that pre-release hype and (mis)marketing didn't achieve a helluva lot.

The counter-argument here is that Android's growth will be slow and steady. But not so easy to pull off as long as iPhone development continues, and as it spreads to more carriers, its impact will be even more palpable. The real answer is for Google to release a Google-phone and leave its partners, brand it correctly, make its own hardware and try to offer an experience very similar to Apple's but with a more convenient app store process. But beating Apple at its own game is usually very difficult. You either have taste or that winning style or geatalt, or you don't. That comes down to philosophy.

On the other hand, going the multiple-devices Windows Mobile-style route might also prove less than successful, for obvious reasons. Either way, it's an uphill battle for Android. The #1 problem standing in the way of Android development and popularity is the iPhone. And the iPhone is not only here to stay, but Apple is developing the hell out of it. Apple is the most dangerous competitor to have, in any sector. Not only is the success of competing devices not a given, it's also unlikely at this point. Apple has been allowed to get too far ahead, too fast.
 
I don't need no figures. I just need to look at historical data and trends. Apple and the iphone have been on top in satisfaction rates ever since the first iphone was released in 2007 and no Android 2.0 or Droid will change that! There is not a big enough leap for that to happen.

Oh sorry, I didn't know you were a market trends expert, and can predict the future to boot. That's impressive. Care to share the World Series winner for next year too? Thanks!

Yeah an abysmal and tiny network that supports 80 plus million customers.

You're delusional if you think AT&T has been doing well with the iPhone in terms of network performance. You've got internet on that thing, right? Google it! If you can get a signal, that is.

The iPhone is a fantastic, great phone. I love the OS on my iPT. But until they switch to another carrier, forget it. I'm not interested. And I'm not alone, either.
 
LOL! That's most likely the one reason that is holding back Android in such a big way. There is no consistent experience across Android handsets.

It's basically a more open Windows Mobile, and we know how that one turns out.

Couldn't agree more, what does Google have over Microsoft?
 
Yes, I know, but a lot of sample code out there doesn't, and I'd bet very few developers check sizes and/or totally avoid hardcoding sizes.

Moreover, Android has multiple screen resolution emulators to test on. The iPhone SDK does not.



Automatic's a nice idea, but as I'm sure you know, scaling up doesn't always work well with bitmaps, and scaling down doesn't always work well with UI elements.

Some apps will work, but I suspect a lot will not look good if the screen size, resolution or aspect ratio changes. I suspect there'll be a lot of rewriting. Of course, that just means more app store upgrade sales.

Go ahead and ignore/minimize the issue for android. I expected nothing less from you.

Being so anti-iPhone, why do you spend so much time on this forum?

Android developers are already facing, and handling, the multiple device issues. The Android SDK specifically addresses resolution independence techniques, for example.

The iPhone development community has no such experience.

Oh I know those android developers are super dooper like you.:rolleyes:
 
You mean exactly like Goona and *LTD* do for any iPhone issues ? Pot, meet Kettle.

If there was an issue to minimize in the first place . . .

Look on the bright side. At least we agree on OS X licensing. Then again, it isn't difficult to refute Psytar supporters and hackintosh users.
 
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