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Game Devs Express New Fears Over Future of Mac Gaming as Apple Deprecates OpenGL and OpenCL in macOS Mojave
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Wow! Thanks, that was very informative. I thought it was more balanced.Mobile gaming makes more revenue and that's only expected to continue. Obviously with more revenue, I would think that is where developers would want to be. With Apple bringing iOS apps to the Mac, I am sure they would prefer to use one standard. This way they can take advantage of the mobile games that exist today and give developers the tools to create more advanced games to be sold cross-platform. It certainly makes sense for Apple. I'd imagine they are okay only taking a small piece of the PC gaming market.
There's no denying Apple is making a serious move based on strong data and trends. Shots fired, indeed, across the bow of larger game developers. But, for small to medium sized developers, with limited capacity, having access to cross platform tools meant they had a chance to maximize their revenues. Now, some may be caught between a rock and a hard place on where they want to devote their time and energy. I can understand their gloom.
For the record, here’s an updated list of Metal games, both existing and forthcoming:
All upcoming games from Feral, Aspyr and those that run on UE4 and Unity 5 will most likely use Metal. I grouped games according to the developers who actually did the porting to Metal.
Feral Interactive
- F1 2016 (Ego Engine 4.0)
- F1 2017
- Hitman (Glacier Engine)
- Total War: Warhammer (Total War Engine 3)
- Warhammer 40,000: Dawn of War III (Essence Engine 4)
- Bioshock Remastered (Unreal Engine 2.5?)
- DiRT Rally (Ego 2.5)
- Deus Ex: Mankind Divided (Glacier Engine)
- Rise of the Tomb Raider (Foundation Engine)
Announced:
Aspyr
- Mafia III (Illusion Engine)
Blizzard
- World of Warcraft (WoW Engine)
Open beta:
- StarCraft II (SC2 Engine)
- Heroes of the Storm (SC2 Engine)
Epic Games (Unreal Engine 4)
- Obduction
- Refunct
- Everspace
- Fortnite
- Ark: Survival Evolved
- Observer
Open Beta:
- Unreal Tournament
Announced:
Unity (Unity 5)
- Ballistic Overkill
- Cities: Skilines
- Micro Machines World Series
- Universe Sandbox 2
- Battletech
Announced:
- Space Pirate Trainer (VR!, version running on the Mac mentioned at WWDC)
Telltale Games (Telltale Tool)
- Marvel's Guardians of the Galaxy: The Telltale Series
- Minecraft: Story Mode - Season Two
- Batman: The Enemy Within - The Telltale Series
Others
- The Witness (custom engine) - Thekla
- Headlander (Buddah Engine) - Double Fine Studios
- War Thunder (Dagor Engine 4) - Gaijin
Open beta:
- Fugl (custom engine) - Team Fugl
- Arma III (Real Virtuality 4) - Virtual Programming
Announced:
- X-Plane 11 (custom engine) - Laminar Research
- Dota 2 (Source 2 via MoltenVK) - Valve
Feral Interactive
- F1 2016 (Ego Engine 4.0)
- F1 2017
- Hitman (Glacier Engine)
- Total War: Warhammer (Total War Engine 3)
- Warhammer 40,000: Dawn of War III (Essence Engine 4)
- Bioshock Remastered (Unreal Engine 2.5?)
- DiRT Rally (Ego 2.5)
- Deus Ex: Mankind Divided (Glacier Engine)
- Rise of the Tomb Raider (Foundation Engine)
Announced:
Aspyr
- Mafia III (Illusion Engine)
Blizzard
- World of Warcraft (WoW Engine)
Open beta:
- StarCraft II (SC2 Engine)
- Heroes of the Storm (SC2 Engine)
Epic Games (Unreal Engine 4)
- Obduction
- Refunct
- Everspace
- Fortnite
- Ark: Survival Evolved
- Observer
Open Beta:
- Unreal Tournament
Announced:
Unity (Unity 5)
- Ballistic Overkill
- Cities: Skilines
- Micro Machines World Series
- Universe Sandbox 2
- Battletech
Announced:
- Space Pirate Trainer (VR!, version running on the Mac mentioned at WWDC)
Telltale Games (Telltale Tool)
- Marvel's Guardians of the Galaxy: The Telltale Series
- Minecraft: Story Mode - Season Two
- Batman: The Enemy Within - The Telltale Series
Others
- The Witness (custom engine) - Thekla
- Headlander (Buddah Engine) - Double Fine Studios
- War Thunder (Dagor Engine 4) - Gaijin
Open beta:
- Fugl (custom engine) - Team Fugl
- Arma III (Real Virtuality 4) - Virtual Programming
Announced:
- X-Plane 11 (custom engine) - Laminar Research
- Dota 2 (Source 2 via MoltenVK) - Valve
Do them more and get faster and better at them. don't make other suffer because you don't want to make a better product.
Oh yea absolutely. It’ll definitely be interesting to see where developers lean. I think there’s good opportunity with what Apple is doing, but it’s going to take some time to materialize. One app platform, shared API’s, and the same ARM based chips. The only differentiation will be form factors. Apps will work across both platforms.
You can make a good product with OpenGL. Having to use a non-portable or low level API might not pay for the effort. Having to use someone else's engine might stifle you.
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Good point. What is the reason to abandon it?
This thread (and the gloom from it's participants) is partially based on the posted PC Gamer article, with several developers quoted as saying this development may be a problem. Is the article hype? Are their concerns illegitimate?
No, no. I was saying that because even if OpenGL death isn’t an issue then the 32-bit abandonment likely will be.
I meant Autodesk wouldn't port Fusion or Revit to metal. Sorry for the confusion due to the mistake I made.
SO much, this!
Apple likes to dictate the path forward and essentially force people to do things their preferred way. But with the gaming market, they're not in a position to succeed with this. What would be far better is if Apple doubled-down on ensuring OpenGL's newer updates were ported into OS X, instead of leaving it versions behind.
The Metal API is fine as an option for people, but demands it get used will just drive people away from making the extra effort for Mac compatibility. Already, the lack of decent 3D graphics cards in most Macs has done enough to hurt Apple. (Companies like Blizzard bailed out on the Mac in 2016 after realizing it was just a dead end for titles like Overwatch. You look at the percentage of people who plan on playing it inside OS X, and THEN you subtract from that all the Mac owners with Intel integrated graphic chipsets -- and you wind up with a relative few Mac Pro owners and some high-spec iMac owners who can even play the game, if they bothered to port it.)
Apple likes to dictate the path forward and essentially force people to do things their preferred way. But with the gaming market, they're not in a position to succeed with this. What would be far better is if Apple doubled-down on ensuring OpenGL's newer updates were ported into OS X, instead of leaving it versions behind.
The Metal API is fine as an option for people, but demands it get used will just drive people away from making the extra effort for Mac compatibility. Already, the lack of decent 3D graphics cards in most Macs has done enough to hurt Apple. (Companies like Blizzard bailed out on the Mac in 2016 after realizing it was just a dead end for titles like Overwatch. You look at the percentage of people who plan on playing it inside OS X, and THEN you subtract from that all the Mac owners with Intel integrated graphic chipsets -- and you wind up with a relative few Mac Pro owners and some high-spec iMac owners who can even play the game, if they bothered to port it.)
Well, I've read all the real pros use Final Cut Pro, and that posers use Adobe, Avid or Blackmagic's software.
I'm not remotely serious. Just repeating some of the garbage I've read on here before. I suspect Adobe will work their ass off to make Metal support better if they want to retain marketshare in the Apple-o-sphere.
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I thought you would have known this by now, especially if you got into Macs in the early 90s like most here have. Apple seeks to benefit itself and only itself. It's a two pronged solution:
1. Limit competitors.
2. Deprecate older code bases and lighten up the core of OSX. No more updates to archaic and ever expanding code. This is what Microsoft wants to do, too, but they're doing it over a very long period of time so that enterprise environments aren't screwed over.
My bad. I thought you were asking as though the two were connected. They’re ditching 32-bit to make macOS easier for them to develop and manage.
It is based on comments from a small number of independent developers. It is not reflective of where the majority of AAA Mac games come from, as the list of such games should show everyone. If indie developer’s games are successful but aren’t natively brought to Mac that means more potential titles for Aspyr, Feral and co. Porting companies have always been the backbone of Mac gaming as so few developers have ever released their own Mac versions, so nothing really changes with this announcement.
And frankly I think anyone lamenting OpenGL having actually used it is certifiably insane. The API has not aged well.
I will miss playing the games I worked on for Feral when they finally are killed but really, they’ve had their time.
This may be verging off-topic and into something of a rant but I really don’t think Apple’s neglect of the Mac and its subsequent decline are natural market forces at work. If Apple put even a decent amount of care into the Mac platform and kept them moderately updated and competitive, let alone what they’re putting into iPhone and iPad (while telling people the iPad Pro is a computer) then I’m sure they wouldn’t be seeing declines and probably even growth.
It’s Apple deliberately pushing the decline because they prefer the locked-down iOS model complete with the gravy-train that is their commission on software sales. They hate that traditional desktop operating systems are more open and people have a choice to run whichever software they choose without requiring Apple’s permission and approval. They want to sell unserviceable, unupgradeable devices with planned obsolescence and completely control the post-sale repair market, something many consumers are beginning to see. If something breaks, you have to go crawling back to Apple and beg that they let you pay them to fix it at their exorbitant prices because they know you can’t go anywhere else.
Remember when Mac laptops had easily swappable batteries? I’m fine with them being internal and not quickly swappable but for them to glue them down and say you’re not allowed to replace it and only we can tell you if and when you’re allowed to replace it and you have to buy from us ... that’s the kind of bull ***** that is pushing people away from the Mac. Never mind this whole keyboard saga where one solitary broken key can necessitate an entire top case replacement including battery. Unbelievable!
For a long time I’ve thought that buying a desktop Mac is stupid, and I don’t think that will ever change, and currently I also feel that of Apple laptops. The next updates with fixed keyboards will be critical, but I’m already preparing myself mentally to leave OS X. Windows is still ****** in many ways but it has advantages and is far more stable than it used to be.
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Yes and no. A company with a bucketload of cash still doesn’t have infinite developers. Money doesn’t always equate to employees.
That list of games or so depressing/anemic. No games from 2018? I am so happy that I am not stuck with a handful of barely decent games. I wonder why some users actually defend this crap.