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Game Devs Express New Fears Over Future of Mac Gaming as Apple Deprecates OpenGL and OpenCL in macOS Mojave
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This is a terrible analogy... doesn't make any sense whatsover. Considering you can still buy 3rd party parts for cars that old
Again: OpenCL/OpenGL aren't exactly "OLD" as they are regularly updated by those who develop for it, with new versions updated regularly. with v 4.6 around the corner.
OpenCL/GL is also the open API standard for those who don't wish to program for ActiveX on windows, while still having support for all major operating systems. (Windows, Linux, OSx etc).
this idea that just because something has history to it, that it's suddenly old and needs to be fully cut off and replaced by some proprietary Apple solution is asinine at the best.
That's what they did with OpenGL 3 (maybe it was 3.1 or 3.2 but something like that). Just because it's still called OpenGL doesn't mean it's even remotely similar to it's original release. You also wouldn't say that OS X 10.12.6 is old just because OS X 10.0 is, right?
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See above
Not sure what you mean by "competitive". Any of the 2017 5K iMacs can play demanding games on at least medium settings in HD, which is what the majority of PC gamers use anyway.
In the OpenCL 2.2 spec they say they are merging OpenCL and Vulcan into 1 API
"We are also working to converge with, and leverage, the Khronos Vulkan API — merging advanced graphics and compute into a single API."
Vulcan will be the future of OpenCL
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A 1080Ti struggles in a lot of games to hit 60fps, at 4K. 2 980Tis in a dual GPU setup couldn't either.
The next generation of Nvidia consumer cards may be able to do it comfortably, but then people will be trying to hit refresh rates well above 60hz and the struggle continues.
That has more to do with optimization. Though I won't argue with you on this. Very few games do well at 4K resolution turned up to Ultra and hitting 60-80 FPS.
I don't have much faith in the upcoming cards, but I do have faith in the cards 2-4 years from now. Of course AMD could always deliver something meaningful that won't double as a panini press.
Right, but that's no different than if you bought a similar spec PC. Running a 4K/5K resolution monitor doesn't mean you'll be able to get a decent frame rate for games running in 4K/5K.
only care about playing games on ios, they never or did their best to support gaming on a mac.
Coming from a company that allowed Bungie to be brought by Microsoft. They sure move fast to get Beats technology.
But for the same price you get a real GPU instead of the underclocked amd junk that still has to thermal throttle in apples laptops on sticks.
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Well that’s because they’re not real AAA games that non-casuals care about. Try mankind divided on 1440p ultra and watch your laptop-on-stick choke.
I bet Apple will kill Bootcamp too, someone check if 10.14 has it still
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yeah
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they only support that with their apps, they don't care about other developers stuff.
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the only difference I don't pay a monthly bill to play games on it, its lame to play games on a mobile device. Now Apple killed Metro Exodus ever coming to mac. I loved metro games on my mac
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their tons of books in Skyrim to read buddy.
What price are you talking about? There's a fairly wide range for the 5K iMac lineup. Besides, even the low-end Radeon Pro 570 is going to run games in HD pretty well. PC Mag did the Heaven/Valley benchmarks for it and it got 81/98 FPS on medium quality and 30/38 FPS on ultra-high quality. Considering that most PC gamers are running games on medium to get higher frame rates, that's going to be fine for most games.
https://www.pcmag.com/review/354474/apple-imac-27-inch-with-5k-retina-display-2017
The great thing about Apple's macs is that they specifically design hardware and software to work together in order to get the best solution for customers. Microsoft never did this, that is why Windows is total crap compared to macOS. Yes, the eco-system is pretty much ring-fenced, which has pro and cons, which moght ceratin developers not even enter macO but at the end of the day this is what macOS users are looking for.
There should be quite bit more developers that use metal. User 'Jeanlain' posted the following list last year on a macrumors thread (which indeed include Unity and UE4):
Finally, we have big games using the Metal API.
EDIT: the list can't be exhaustive. All upcoming games from Feral, Aspyr and those that run on UE4 and Unity 5 will most likely use Metal. I grouped games according to the developers who actually did the porting to Metal.
Feral Interactive
- F1 2016 (Ego Engine 4.0)
- F1 2017
- Hitman (Glacier Engine)
- Total War: Warhammer (Total War Engine 3)
- Warhammer 40,000: Dawn of War III (Essence Engine 4)
- Bioshock Remastered (Unreal Engine 2.5?)
- DiRT Rally (Ego 2.5)
- Deus Ex: Mankind Divided (Glacier Engine)
- Rise of the Tomb Raider (Foundation Engine)
Announced:
Aspyr
- Mafia III (Illusion Engine)
Blizzard
- World of Warcraft (WoW Engine)
Open beta:
- StarCraft II (SC2 Engine)
- Heroes of the Storm (SC2 Engine)
Epic Games (Unreal Engine 4)
- Obduction
- Refunct
- Everspace
- Fortnite
- Ark: Survival Evolved
- Observer
Open Beta:
- Unreal Tournament
Announced:
Unity (Unity 5)
- Ballistic Overkill
- Cities: Skilines
- Micro Machines World Series
- Universe Sandbox 2
- Battletech
Announced:
- Space Pirate Trainer (VR!, version running on the Mac mentioned at WWDC)
Telltale Games (Telltale Tool)
- Marvel's Guardians of the Galaxy: The Telltale Series
- Minecraft: Story Mode - Season Two
- Batman: The Enemy Within - The Telltale Series
Others
- The Witness (custom engine) - Thekla
- Headlander (Buddah Engine) - Double Fine Studios
- War Thunder (Dagor Engine 4) - Gaijin
Open beta:
- Fugl (custom engine) - Team Fugl
- Arma III (Real Virtuality 4) - Virtual Programming
Announced:
- X-Plane 11 (custom engine) - Laminar Research
- Dota 2 (Source 2 via MoltenVK) - Valve
What else? I can keep the list updated.
There should be quite bit more developers that use metal. User 'Jeanlain' posted the following list last year on a macrumors thread (which indeed include Unity and UE4):
Finally, we have big games using the Metal API.
EDIT: the list can't be exhaustive. All upcoming games from Feral, Aspyr and those that run on UE4 and Unity 5 will most likely use Metal. I grouped games according to the developers who actually did the porting to Metal.
Feral Interactive
- F1 2016 (Ego Engine 4.0)
- F1 2017
- Hitman (Glacier Engine)
- Total War: Warhammer (Total War Engine 3)
- Warhammer 40,000: Dawn of War III (Essence Engine 4)
- Bioshock Remastered (Unreal Engine 2.5?)
- DiRT Rally (Ego 2.5)
- Deus Ex: Mankind Divided (Glacier Engine)
- Rise of the Tomb Raider (Foundation Engine)
Announced:
Aspyr
- Mafia III (Illusion Engine)
Blizzard
- World of Warcraft (WoW Engine)
Open beta:
- StarCraft II (SC2 Engine)
- Heroes of the Storm (SC2 Engine)
Epic Games (Unreal Engine 4)
- Obduction
- Refunct
- Everspace
- Fortnite
- Ark: Survival Evolved
- Observer
Open Beta:
- Unreal Tournament
Announced:
Unity (Unity 5)
- Ballistic Overkill
- Cities: Skilines
- Micro Machines World Series
- Universe Sandbox 2
- Battletech
Announced:
- Space Pirate Trainer (VR!, version running on the Mac mentioned at WWDC)
Telltale Games (Telltale Tool)
- Marvel's Guardians of the Galaxy: The Telltale Series
- Minecraft: Story Mode - Season Two
- Batman: The Enemy Within - The Telltale Series
Others
- The Witness (custom engine) - Thekla
- Headlander (Buddah Engine) - Double Fine Studios
- War Thunder (Dagor Engine 4) - Gaijin
Open beta:
- Fugl (custom engine) - Team Fugl
- Arma III (Real Virtuality 4) - Virtual Programming
Announced:
- X-Plane 11 (custom engine) - Laminar Research
- Dota 2 (Source 2 via MoltenVK) - Valve
What else? I can keep the list updated.
You're not wrong, but you do come off as a bit of a dick about it here.
Separately: Apple machines are priced (and broadly-speaking, specced) as premium all-rounders, with an emphasis on quality-of-life, ease-of-use, build quality, design, and above-the-curve hardware guts. This involves a premium price tag, and selling a premium, easy experience. Unfortunately for gaming enthusiasts, those priorities on display don't typically include GPUs with mountains of TFLOPS. In the gaming enthusiast space, there's a disproportionate emphasis on performance tinkering, having oodles of GPU power, and being clever with bang-for-your-buck. None of these things align with Apple's approach to building and selling Macs; its almost a different world. Small wonder that "serious gamers" scoff at most Mac offerings.
I did the AAA-gaming-on-a-MBP thing for a good number of years, playing various Battlefields, Fallouts, and Mass Effects, and yeah, it was an expensive undertaking. As long as I didn't care too much about playing at reduced details and resolutions, it also worked out OK. Eventually my lifestyle didn't ask me to indulge the hobby on the same portable machine that I used for everything else in my computing life, so I bought an Xbox One. It runs Mankind Divided at 900p on whatever settings Eidos Montreal felt worked best, at something around 30fps, and none of that really matters too much because it is a terrific if somewhat flawed game that's a joy to play and I wish they'd make another one already!
On topic: OGL being deprecated seems to be something of a loss in theory rather than practice. Consensus seems to be that Metal has turned out fine, maybe even rather good, and big engines and big porting houses are using it. Life will carry on.
only on ios, not the mac. they had a chance to buy Bungie gaming company. have you seen Apple buy a gaming company?
What pray tell is a real non-casual game? All right World of Tanks is a casual multiplayer game (not a sim like I used to play) and includes in-app purchases which I have not done.
On the other hand you obviously haven't a clue what X-Plane otherwise you wouldn't have been so dimissive. It is a flight sim and a pretty sophisticated one at that - there is a pro version that is licensed for use as a flight training aid. It includes a pretty complex physics model for aircraft and weather and models the whole world including most airports and navaids - albeit in varying degrees of detail. There is a massive community that provides third party free and payware aircraft, airport and landmark scenery. As an aside, it was one of the few flight sims that was developed partly on and for Mac and the ONLY one I know of that is ported to all three main desktop OS, Windows, MacOS and Linux. That said, I am sure X-Plane 11 probably runs better on a high end gaming PC than on my iMac on the highest settings. But with medium-to high settings in runs VERY well for me.
Does anybody has idea whether years back hyped Grand Central Dispatch or how is proper name still used in MacOS or iOS? Have not heard about it long.
Yes just about every library or castle in that game.
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Kind of the same philosophy as Nintendo, not always the greatest specs but a all around system instead.
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Grand Central Dispatch (GCD) is an essential part of macOS, iOS and all Apple platforms. It's what helps multicore systems utilise all those cores efficiently. It gets updates as well, but they aren't consumer centric updates, and if you're not developing apps, it makes sense you don't hear about it.
But any developer has probably used the dispatch queue.
Well, from what I gather... Those games appear to be getting a metal backend.. Even ones dating back to the DX7 era
That is good news! OTOH emotionally my point still stands as they won’t be the version that I worked on.
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They are deprecating OpenGL and OpenCL not removing it. It will go away eventually but how long that takes is going to be driven by how many applications and users continue to need it. This is a developer announcement to warn everyone before they invest more development effort in a legacy technology.
This is not only an issue of games getting Mac OS Support. This is a huge issue for content creation. Many programs in the Autodesk and Adobe suites use OpenGL. While Metal may perform better, this will require some growing pains and may cause the Mac Versions of these programs to work differently than the Linux or Windows versions. This could have serious repercussions on workflow and may further cause developers and studios to opt for single-platform environments, rather than trying to support multiple platforms that might not be 100% compatible. If there are any functions in Metal that visually look different, for instance, you run the risk of these APIs not producing compatible work. And without proper, up-to-date graphics and desktop hardware, increasingly that will mean that Apple will lose favor here.
Apple always does its best to push forward at a fast clip, but I'm not sure making MacOS less graphics compatible with the rest of the market at large will be a good decision.
Apple always does its best to push forward at a fast clip, but I'm not sure making MacOS less graphics compatible with the rest of the market at large will be a good decision.