Bootcamp is still available in 10.14.
Been running the beta for about 24 hours now on my MacBook Air and no issues to report.
I will be trying Bootcamp this weekend.
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Game Devs Express New Fears Over Future of Mac Gaming as Apple Deprecates OpenGL and OpenCL in macOS Mojave
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Been running the beta for about 24 hours now on my MacBook Air and no issues to report.
I will be trying Bootcamp this weekend.
And despite everything you mentioned macs still perform better in everything under windows in boot camp than OS X.The great thing about Apple's macs is that they specifically design hardware and software to work together in order to get the best solution for customers. Microsoft never did this, that is why Windows is total crap compared to macOS. Yes, the eco-system is pretty much ring-fenced, which has pro and cons, which moght ceratin developers not even enter macO but at the end of the day this is what macOS users are looking for.
There should be quite bit more developers that use metal. User 'Jeanlain' posted the following list last year on a macrumors thread (which indeed include Unity and UE4):
Finally, we have big games using the Metal API.
EDIT: the list can't be exhaustive. All upcoming games from Feral, Aspyr and those that run on UE4 and Unity 5 will most likely use Metal. I grouped games according to the developers who actually did the porting to Metal.
Feral Interactive
- F1 2016 (Ego Engine 4.0)
- F1 2017
- Hitman (Glacier Engine)
- Total War: Warhammer (Total War Engine 3)
- Warhammer 40,000: Dawn of War III (Essence Engine 4)
- Bioshock Remastered (Unreal Engine 2.5?)
- DiRT Rally (Ego 2.5)
- Deus Ex: Mankind Divided (Glacier Engine)
- Rise of the Tomb Raider (Foundation Engine)
Announced:
Aspyr
- Mafia III (Illusion Engine)
Blizzard
- World of Warcraft (WoW Engine)
Open beta:
- StarCraft II (SC2 Engine)
- Heroes of the Storm (SC2 Engine)
Epic Games (Unreal Engine 4)
- Obduction
- Refunct
- Everspace
- Fortnite
- Ark: Survival Evolved
- Observer
Open Beta:
- Unreal Tournament
Announced:
Unity (Unity 5)
- Ballistic Overkill
- Cities: Skilines
- Micro Machines World Series
- Universe Sandbox 2
- Battletech
Announced:
- Space Pirate Trainer (VR!, version running on the Mac mentioned at WWDC)
Telltale Games (Telltale Tool)
- Marvel's Guardians of the Galaxy: The Telltale Series
- Minecraft: Story Mode - Season Two
- Batman: The Enemy Within - The Telltale Series
Others
- The Witness (custom engine) - Thekla
- Headlander (Buddah Engine) - Double Fine Studios
- War Thunder (Dagor Engine 4) - Gaijin
Open beta:
- Fugl (custom engine) - Team Fugl
- Arma III (Real Virtuality 4) - Virtual Programming
Announced:
- X-Plane 11 (custom engine) - Laminar Research
- Dota 2 (Source 2 via MoltenVK) - Valve
What else? I can keep the list updated.
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This is not only a gaming issue but also CAD, content creation, ML and more.
Not at all. DVD was a mainstream tech used by the majority of the market at the time Apple eliminated it. That makes its removal idiotic. The fact that now 10+ years later the majority of the market has moved on and few people still use DVDs does not mean Apple was right back then.
VGA has disappeared but there was a good 10 year period when monitors had VGA ports plus something better and computers had VGA ports plus something better. It made the transition painless and few people today would ask for a VGA connection. But in 2006 when HDMI and DP were fairly commonplace, building a device without VGA would have been idiotic.
How can you possibly think a computer with 4 USB-C ports is better than a computer with 4 USB-C + 2 USB-3 ports? In 2016 when Apple introduced the steaming turd or even today. The 2016 MBP is 2 years old, that's 2 years of only having USB-C and it is just as much a turd of a machine today as it was in 2016; the market has not moved at all towards USB-C and all Apple users have to suffer as a result of Apple's idiocy. If USB-C is mainstream in 2026 it doesn't change that.
The issue many of you may be overlooking is that for literally years, the fruit NEVER updated the version of OpenGL while the rest of the market went with advanced versions of it. And while metal seems to be kinda decent right now, it's still leagues behind DirectX. Except for the fact Blizzard went though the pain of converting WoW to Metal, it's telling that this formerly Mac centric developer is no longer bringing games to the Mac... their latest game is winblowz only.
Metal for OpenGL Developers
Get introduced to essential Metal capabilities and understand the recommended approach for transitioning OpenGL-based apps onto the Metal API.
https://developer.apple.com/videos/play/wwdc2018/604/
Get introduced to essential Metal capabilities and understand the recommended approach for transitioning OpenGL-based apps onto the Metal API.
https://developer.apple.com/videos/play/wwdc2018/604/
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Oh man, tried to get Age of Mythology up and running again a few months back... what a nightmare. Sometimes there's zero issue getting an old game to run in Windows 10 (my gold edition discs for the original Age of Empires, for instance, still run great), and then sometimes it's like trying to pull teeth outside at night while it's snowing and the thing you're trying to pull teeth from is a bear.
Which I guess is why remasters and re-releases on platforms like GOG and Steam sell so well.
I apologize, I should have been more clear. By competitive I mean game availability. Apple has seemed fairly indifferent to attracting game developers to their ecosystem. I'd like them to reconsider this strategy. If they can do that with their new Metal (2?) APIs, great.
When you said "Scientific application developers do not care." I assumed you were talking about compute rather than render.
They don't care, and nor do a lot of them program 3D engines when they could be spending time actually doing scientific stuff. Applications such as Matlab and ParaView provide the tools to do that and more user friendly api's like OpenSceneGraph, which at the moment is obviously OpenGl, represent other attempts at abstracting the work away from dealing with the API.
Welp... looks like this is the last "upgrade" for my Mac. Breaking compatability with my applications that I use is a deal-breaker, so once again, I am ready to swear-off Apple. Really getting tired of playing this game with these *******s. Thanks to decisions like this, I regret ever buying anything made by Apple, and wish I had refused. I can't even count up all the money I could have saved, if only because it's too painful to think about how much money I've flushed down the toilet buying Apple's designed-to-be-obsolete-the-week-after-you-buy-it products.
Yesterday at WWDC 2018, Apple revealed macOS Mojave, which is set to bring users a Dark Mode, redesigned Mac App Store, organizable Stacks, streamlined screenshots, and more when it launches wide in the fall. Alongside the new features, Apple has confirmed that it is deprecating OpenGL (Open Graphics Library) and OpenCL (Open Computing Language) in favor of Metal.
This means that apps built using OpenGL and OpenCL will still run in Mojave, but they will no longer be updated after macOS 10.14 launches. Apple encourages games and "graphics-intensive apps" built with OpenGL to adopt Metal ahead of Mojave's launch, and apps that use OpenCL for computational tasks "should now adopt Metal and Metal Performance Shaders."
Rise of the Tomb Raider: 20 Year Celebration is one of the latest Mac games to run on Metal
Launched four years ago, Metal is Apple's own 3D graphic and programming interface that combines the functions of OpenGL and OpenCL under a singular API. In explaining the move of deprecating the "legacy technologies" of OpenGL and OpenCL, Apple said that "Metal avoids the overhead inherent in legacy technologies and exposes the latest graphics processing functionality" of GPUs found in devices across iOS, macOS, and tvOS.
Although Apple's decision to deprecate the older technology in favor of its own graphics API may not be surprising, some game developers have begun criticizing Apple for the move, particularly how it affects the future of gaming on Mac. Notably, OpenGL is an open-source, cross-platform solution that made it simple for developers to build games on both Mac and PC at the same time, providing some parity to a platform that many have agreed is lacking as a gaming hub.
Since "many games and apps continue to use OpenGL," particularly those that released prior to Metal in 2014, the shift to Metal-focused development is leaving Mac developers worried about any potential to grow as a gaming platform (via PC Gamer). Game developer Sam Loeschen tweeted that he feels "conflicted" about the decision, calling Metal a "really, really good" graphics API but admitting that "this decision alienates macOS further as a gaming platform."
Speaking with PC Gamer, game designer Rami Ismail said that while "it's not doomsday," it appears that Apple is preparing for such an occasion in regards to fully terminating OpenGL/OpenCL on Mac. He explained that for now, "the worst that's going to happen" is that parts of old apps will "break," and pointed out that lacking a single cross-platform graphics API is a "pain" and "not very good for developer confidence" in Apple.
More developers and programmers chimed in on the news to PC Gamer, including Alex Austin, who ultimately said that while he likes to develop on Mac to "support fans if I can," he's most likely "not going to spend any time on Metal because Macs are a pretty small percentage of the market and really probably not worth it even now."
Article Link: Game Devs Express New Fears Over Future of Mac Gaming as Apple Deprecates OpenGL and OpenCL in macOS Mojave
Yeah this is much more concerning for 3D apps like Lightwave3D, Autocad, Blender, and Adobe stuff.
Gaming on the Mac does indeed suck. Which is why everyone has said either get a PC/console for gaming or dual boot into Windows for games, or build a hackintosh.
Apple is just repeating mistakes in the past by being a walled system.
Gaming on the Mac does indeed suck. Which is why everyone has said either get a PC/console for gaming or dual boot into Windows for games, or build a hackintosh.
Apple is just repeating mistakes in the past by being a walled system.
Unity does have a Metal option. When I was making the Mac version of my current Edutainment product I tried using Metal. Everything broke! Well everything graphical. I'd have to go back and basically redevelop every custom Shader, and then those Metal API shaders wouldn't have interoperability with the Windows build. I'd be tracking two major branches in my software. It wouldn't quite double my development time/costs, but maybe 30% for the administrative and version control pains.
So I flipped it to OpenGL Core. Boom virtually everything worked, except a few minor differences in scene lighting and a custom cursor bug that's Unity specific.
By the way, just to provide some perspective, I'll point out that the last version of OpenGL that Microsoft provided for Windows was OpenGL 1.1, as far as I can tell. Microsoft deprecated OpenGL some 20 years ago in favor of Direct3D.
For two decades now, OpenGL on Windows has been provided by the third-party GPU manufacturers with their drivers, not by Microsoft - just like Vulkan is today.
Just something to bear in mind for the folks who might be tempted to contrast Apple with Microsoft in this regard.
For two decades now, OpenGL on Windows has been provided by the third-party GPU manufacturers with their drivers, not by Microsoft - just like Vulkan is today.
Just something to bear in mind for the folks who might be tempted to contrast Apple with Microsoft in this regard.
I don't know if this is 100% doom and gloom for apple yet, we will have to wait and see how developers respond, but it's definitely sad news for 3D artist and again limits the amount of programs they have to work with. I think in some backwards way apple thinks it is moving it's self towards 3D art and videogame development by making Metal. But they see a very very long term goal here. I guess maybe in the far future we will see all 3D applications with metal or Molten integration. All the young artist will not know of these dark times and all will be forgiven.
Metal is not leagues behind DirectX, from what I understand the two are very comparable.
My thoughts exactly. I was having a debate with 2 members recently, who were trying to argue that Apple uses the best gpu's.....x 10000
Whilst that's true, NOT running Mac software through openGL and actually using a modern, performant API will certainly help.
Using the ancient versions of OpenGL apple are carrying around to run modern GPU hardware with modern multi-threaded CPUs is like buying a ferrari and then driving it around on 91 octane with 2 spark plugs un-plugged on cheap shinko tyres because you're too cheap to give it the parts it needs to run properly.
Yes, deprecating openGL and removing it will be short term pain. But this is how apple actually gets support for new standards.
Brand new PCs were still booting using BIOS by default until last year or two because no one wants to change anything. Windows Mobile never took off because Microsoft couldn't deprecate win32, for example.
To truly move forward you need to leave baggage behind. Those who need to run openGL can run High Sierra or earlier for a few years yet.
But yes. Deprecating OpenCL was not apple's call - it has been merged with Vulkan. Apple likely started on Metal before Vulkan was a thing - likely when AMD was messing with Mantle.
If vulkan was available before they sunk development into Metal, who knows what might have happened. But it wasn't. So they didn't select it for native implementation.
there's a vulkan shim (MoltenVK). get over it
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I know they have released a 2018 version but Lightwave is struggling these days and I wouldnt expect them to
And what exactly was everyone doing with DVD's back then? Installing an OS and maybe burning the odd archive.
For something most people didn't use regularly, it was an easy elimination. The provided free OS on memory stick and ability to connect to another mac if you really did need to access a DVD. But as a format DVD came at the wrong time and it really didn't take off like CDR because tech had moved on.
On Apples last few DVD based laptops a lot of people removed the DVD drive and replace it with an additional SSD. That should have been the option Apple offered.
USB-C is mainstream. All you have to remember, when buying the memory card reader or whatever, is to get the USB-C one rather than the standard USB connector.
It is also being pushed on higher end PC laptops as they are also using it for external GPU's.
But as always, when buying new tech based on the latest standards you cant expect your old peripherals to work like they did 10 years ago. And for those complaining they need to but a dongle so they can still use their memory card reader, why not just get a new memory card reader (the cheapest component)
Pfft. I'll believe Apple to be working on a new console before they allow mainstream games to be on the Macs.
The 2018 version is actually a pretty good release. Newtek could easily just make the latest version of OpenGL part of the install. I'll dig around, but I am pretty sure every CAD program uses OpenGL. Even the Windows ones.
It's a bit odd - there seem to be two arguments that this (OpenGL being deprecated) is a non issue:
- "It's a non-issue, the sky won't fall because OpenGL is deprecated" and
- "It's a non-issue, the sky has already fallen, gaming on Mac is long dead".
Same conclusion, dramatically different reasons.
I could care less about gaming on the Mac; more concerned about pro-level content creation apps that use OpenGL.
And science & engineering programs that also need graphic software.
At least in a lot of the Pro-level fields Apple WAS the leader. Apple’s neglect of its computers, especially the Mac Pro, isn’t going to engender loyalty. Throwing more obstacles and delaying when the hardware is available isn’t good marketing.
Indeed; Apple shipped Metal some six months before Vulkan was even announced.
It's a bit odd - there seem to be two arguments that this (OpenGL being deprecated) is a non issue:
- "It's a non-issue, the sky won't fall because OpenGL is deprecated" and
- "It's a non-issue, the sky has already fallen, gaming on Mac is long dead".
Same conclusion, dramatically different reasons.
Whilst they may not be the games you necessarily want to play, as soon as the mac runs IOS applications, there's a massive library of iOS games that will run on the Mac. Along with a massive number of iOS game developers.
The same APIs between macOS and iOS will mean that you have an army of iOS app-store developers revved up and keen to see what they can do with their same programming knowledge on the Mac.
I'd say that gaming on the mac looks pretty bright at this point. They just won't necessarily be PC games.
I'd say it depends on what games you want to play and how you feel about frame rate and settings for games. Windows is still the best gaming platform (currently) but that doesn't mean things are hopeless on the Mac side. I mean look at https://www.macgamerhq.com/
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