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Game Devs Express New Fears Over Future of Mac Gaming as Apple Deprecates OpenGL and OpenCL in macOS Mojave
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In Apple's "perfect iWorld", all computers would be Macs, all tablets would be iPads, all smartphones would be iPhones, all wearables would be Apple Watches, all TV boxes would be Apple TVs, all smart speakers would be HomePods, all code would be written in Swift, and all app developers in the world would pay the 30% Apple tax. But this isn't Apple's "perfect world" no matter how much they'd love that scenario.
I have no problem with advancement. I'm not a game dev so I can't speak to whether Metal is a good or a bad API. But I can question why Apple can't continue to offer support for industry-wide standards along with their own. Is it "more work to maintain?" Sure it is. But is the effort not worth it? It keeps your platform more relevant. It keeps your app library growing (as developers for other platforms can apply the knowledge of the open frameworks they already know to the Mac). It keeps the "Switchers" interested too, as more apps and games they like can be brought to the platform. Surely the effort can be justified?
Sometimes I feel like Apple does things with the hope - maybe even the expectation? - that it will bring them closer to Apple's Perfect iWorld. They ride quite high on the success of the mobile market, but even there they are not the majority leader anymore. Mac as a platform has always had a relatively minuscule market share. Switching to Intel was actually good move - it brought native Windows support, making the decision of "buy a Mac or a PC" a lot easier since Windows users could get native PC performance. But now it seems Apple is trying to go the other way - moving away from open standards to bring everything in house. AFAIK they no longer use Apache for the HTTP server or Samba for the Windows file server. There's constant talk about moving Macs to ARM processors - which would alienate that entire crowd of Windows users who use Boot Camp or virtualization.
Come on Apple. You make great stuff. Stop making it less enticing by being arrogant. Make great, beautiful products that show off your awesomeness while still supporting the rest of the world. Your fanboys aren't going anywhere - but you can and should strive for more than your cult followers. You do that by embracing other standards and integrating them with your system, not "deprecating" and booting them out in favor of your own proprietary stuff.
I have no problem with advancement. I'm not a game dev so I can't speak to whether Metal is a good or a bad API. But I can question why Apple can't continue to offer support for industry-wide standards along with their own. Is it "more work to maintain?" Sure it is. But is the effort not worth it? It keeps your platform more relevant. It keeps your app library growing (as developers for other platforms can apply the knowledge of the open frameworks they already know to the Mac). It keeps the "Switchers" interested too, as more apps and games they like can be brought to the platform. Surely the effort can be justified?
Sometimes I feel like Apple does things with the hope - maybe even the expectation? - that it will bring them closer to Apple's Perfect iWorld. They ride quite high on the success of the mobile market, but even there they are not the majority leader anymore. Mac as a platform has always had a relatively minuscule market share. Switching to Intel was actually good move - it brought native Windows support, making the decision of "buy a Mac or a PC" a lot easier since Windows users could get native PC performance. But now it seems Apple is trying to go the other way - moving away from open standards to bring everything in house. AFAIK they no longer use Apache for the HTTP server or Samba for the Windows file server. There's constant talk about moving Macs to ARM processors - which would alienate that entire crowd of Windows users who use Boot Camp or virtualization.
Come on Apple. You make great stuff. Stop making it less enticing by being arrogant. Make great, beautiful products that show off your awesomeness while still supporting the rest of the world. Your fanboys aren't going anywhere - but you can and should strive for more than your cult followers. You do that by embracing other standards and integrating them with your system, not "deprecating" and booting them out in favor of your own proprietary stuff.
What does this mean for WebGL?
My understanding is that WebGL is heavily dependent on OpenGL... if OpenGL is deprecated, does that mean WebGL is as well, or does it just mean that WebGL is going to somehow be rewritten to utilize Metal?
My understanding is that WebGL is heavily dependent on OpenGL... if OpenGL is deprecated, does that mean WebGL is as well, or does it just mean that WebGL is going to somehow be rewritten to utilize Metal?
BTW, are they still designing the promised “modular Mac Pro”? For what exactly? For playing the iOS version of Angry Birds? Do they really mean that we would tell our research department to consider buying a Mac Pro for coding in Metal? Really? And this Tim Cook guy says now he no longer has an interest in politics? He should reconsider that, as has even less interest in computers.
This is scary actually as a game dev. We tested on several systems OpenGL vs Metal on a new game (that is also both std 3D and VR) and found OpenGL and Metal to be NO DIFFERENT in performance whatsoever. When we saw this at WWDC it actually was rather upsetting because it really gave some bad vibes that are being motivated by totally different reasons than what they're revealing.
This is a truly fake and unfounded need by Apple to move in this direction.
This is a truly fake and unfounded need by Apple to move in this direction.
We had our day. There was a time in the 90's when I preferred gaming on my Mac. Hell, Halo almost made it to the iMac first. That was before Bungie was consumed by M$.
Assuming Metal gives you the same possibilities as Vulkan, maybe you need to hire a guru?
All i can think of for Apple's response is "Courage" lol.
I used Premiere and do not see any material benefit in Metal Rendering vs the faster open GL/CL too.
Apple should at least build a translation layer between Metal and the other two APIs, not just abandoning these widely utilized libraries.
Perhaps a third-party (Unity?) will see this as an opportunity for revenue or to gain even more popularity.
Perhaps a third-party (Unity?) will see this as an opportunity for revenue or to gain even more popularity.
Delusional.
When was the last time you saw a full blown AAA game? 2003? Do you have an idea how games look and play today?
Since Blizzard started making games in the early '90's. Since MacPlay started porting PC games for Mac in 1990.
I got my first Mac in college back in 1995, it was a Power Mac 6400. Two of my roommates at the time owned PC's... one was a Pentium 166 and the other a Pentium 200 (top of the line at the time). My 6400 came with a software bundle in the box and one of those pieces of software was the game Descent (pretty big game at the time). We had played Descent on the two PC's on a regular basis and loved it. When I popped that "MacPlay" version of Descent in my new Power Mac for the first time everyone in the room who were initially scoffing at the fact I just got a new Mac instead of Pentium instantly were silenced due to my 6400's vastly superior graphics, sound, and much better frame rate.
The same thing happened the following year with Command and Conquer. First release on the PC followed by a Mac release. The performance of my 6400 vs the PC's was ridiculous. The PC's would always bog down when a lot was happening on screen, my Mac NEVER did.
I say ALL of that because you asked "When have Macs EVER been good for gaming?" As far as I'm concerned the answer is since ALWAYS.
Makes sense from Apple's perspective, but I can see them losing a lot of game developers this way. They'll just further push their focus to Windows I suppose. Mobile gaming is really the future though if you look at all the trends so I understand why Apple is moving this way.
I love Descent and still have the occasional fun with the OSX port, but even that uses OpenGL. (http://www.descent2.de/d2x.html)
Problem is that not only games but many Scientific software, simulation software & 3D/CAD software depend on both OpenGL & OpenCL. So in the near future Mac will be a barren land for those software.
For example CAD on Mac is already non-existent. Only premiere CAD software on Mac that I am aware of is Siemens NX. But I can't remember if I have ever heard any good words about the Mac version of that software. After step like this even they would be thinking twice about supporting Mac OS. Also if you think Dassult would put their money for porting Solidworks to Metal or Autodesk will pour any kind of money for porting Fusion or Revit to Metal then keep dreaming. Development cost for those endeavors will be immense & I don't think they would be ready for forking that kind of budget to a segment which is almost trivial to them.
Step like this ensured that we will never get software like Biovia, Simulia, Vortex etc on Mac.
Also I wonder what happens to Blender on Mac as they heavily rely on OpenGL. Will Blender foundation continue supporting Mac? Only future can tell.
For example CAD on Mac is already non-existent. Only premiere CAD software on Mac that I am aware of is Siemens NX. But I can't remember if I have ever heard any good words about the Mac version of that software. After step like this even they would be thinking twice about supporting Mac OS. Also if you think Dassult would put their money for porting Solidworks to Metal or Autodesk will pour any kind of money for porting Fusion or Revit to Metal then keep dreaming. Development cost for those endeavors will be immense & I don't think they would be ready for forking that kind of budget to a segment which is almost trivial to them.
Step like this ensured that we will never get software like Biovia, Simulia, Vortex etc on Mac.
Also I wonder what happens to Blender on Mac as they heavily rely on OpenGL. Will Blender foundation continue supporting Mac? Only future can tell.
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Depricate is an odd word choice, I think. I imagine the intent was for it to mean depreciate, and if so, why not use that word?
apple has always thrived for a closed ecosystem where everything works perfectly and – according to the numbers – it pays off. why would they change their business model if they keep growing?
Apps do not work forever on Windows either. There are quite a few Windows Xp apps that won't run on Windows 10 at all. Same thing for some older games.
Seems fine for the big hitters but a bit of a nut kick for small time indie Devs.
+1000000000000000000000
Now Deprecating doesn't mean "gone", but its a first sign that Apple has 0 intent to implement newer versions of OpenGL/CL. Which is BAD, bad for scientific community, bad for developers, and bad for the end users. This is Apple trying to shove Metal down everyone's throats.
This makes me place macOS development as very low 2nd class citizen, maybe even 3rd class.
Safari only? No way. I couldn't begin to tell you the amount of websites that don't work properly under Safari including government websites, etc.