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The April drivers, Blue and Red, were both unstable on my MBP 16". I'm using the Jan. 2020 Red drivers for the time being. I had some minor issues (but that made playing games a PITA) with the default Bootcamp drivers, but the Red drivers resolved those issues. I have not done a performance comparison between them; it's simply that the Red January drivers work best for my machine.
 
Now that more of these laptops are in people’s hands and the drivers are being updated, is there a consensus on which model is best for gaming?

Is the 5300M with i7 more stable FPS than the 5500M with i7 due to thermal throttling/power draw? If there’s only 5 FPS between the 2 cards but the 5300M is more stable, then that seems the best option.

I’m torn between these two models, and despite reading all 29 pages of this thread it doesn’t feel like there’s a consensus. I’ve looked hard for gaming comparisons of these configurations but not had much luck.
 
I'll just add my opinion. I had experience with pc gaming laptops and your top priority is temperatures. on desktop pc's if something is overheating you can just add a fan or something like that but with laptops, what you get is it and you can't change anything.

so I recently purchased the base 16" i7. I must say I'm really impressed with temperatures. I would not buy the i9 in this thin laptop.

unless you need this for work, I think gaming performance in the base model is great with comfortable temperatures. this gives you the confidence you can play without worrying you're ruining your laptop.
 
The drivers are poor in both mac and windows. They are better in Windows but my experience has shown they crash more often in Windows on the same game. Gaming from my side has been decent. I haven't had the massive fan problems really (or maybe I don't care.) I'm looking into eGPU but seems the landscape is poor in that regard.

Disgusting how Apple and amd haven’t updated the boot camp drivers once since the release
 
so I recently purchased the base 16" i7. I must say I'm really impressed with temperatures. I would not buy the i9 in this thin laptop.

unless you need this for work, I think gaming performance in the base model is great with comfortable temperatures. this gives you the confidence you can play without worrying you're ruining your laptop.

This is good to hear, thanks. Are you aware of anywhere that I can compare i7 5300M vs i7 5500M gaming performance?
 
Hi no, but i would assume the 5500 is still too weak to really need and properly use 8gb vram for gaming. This would probably be much more useful for editing. For gaming, I’d stick with the 5300.
 
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The real answer is... it depends. Some games will use it without massive motion or high settings. 8GB is for textures not speed.

Hi no, but i would assume the 5500 is still too weak to really need and properly use 8gb vram for gaming. This would probably be much more useful for editing. For gaming, I’d stick with the 5300.
 
The real answer is... it depends. Some games will use it without massive motion or high settings. 8GB is for textures not speed.

I can accept this as a benefit for sure. But I'm worried about the 5500M throttling and jumping FPS around VS the 5300M. Sorry I don't want to dig in on this, just thought I'd check whether anyone had stats to compare.
 
Disgusting how Apple and amd haven’t updated the boot camp drivers once since the release
The drivers are poor in both mac and windows. They are better in Windows but my experience has shown they crash more often in Windows on the same game. Gaming from my side has been decent. I haven't had the massive fan problems really (or maybe I don't care.) I'm looking into eGPU but seems the landscape is poor in that regard.


Was pointed at this thread by /u/anticipat3 on reddit. Thought I'd link a couple guides that significantly improved my Bootcamp gaming experience (and heavier Mac workloads).

i9 2.4GHz, 16GB, 2TB, 5500M 8GB - January Blue drivers

I doubled my minimum FPS using a program called Process Lasso, this combined with a power limit in Throttlestop really helped.
I also did a hardware mod by applying thermal pads to the VRM. This helped even more than the Process Lasso and Throttlestop combo
My current setup is the padded VRMs, Process Lasso HyperThreading disabled (No Throttlestop), plus a small heatsink touching the bottom plate of the laptop I can game without any throttling on CPU or GPU, I'm seeing these numbers playing No Man's Sky for hours on end.
  • >3.4GHz sustained CPU with >30W
  • >900MHz GPU with >30W
 
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I'll add my two cents here. I took a different approach. I forced Windows (and all the programs running in Windows) to only use four cores and eight threads. This can be done by typing "msconfig.exe" in the Search bar (next to the Start button) and opening up the configuration utility. On the Boot tab, look for Advanced, then set the maximum number of processors (actually threads) to 8. This video details the process:


According to task manager, this forces the Windows to only use half the available cores and threads on my i9, effectively turning it into an i5. This has a triple benefit; it causes the CPU to use less power, generate substantially less heat and hit higher frequencies, which is often more important to games than total number of cores. Using less power and generating less heat also gives the GPU more thermal and power headroom.

I haven't done formal benchmarks, but a casual test in the game Control saw my 4GB 5500M hitting 1150MHz - 1200MHz and frame rates in the mid- to high fifties. The game was running at 3072x1920, with a render resolution of 1920x1200, high textures and a mix of low and medium lighting & effects. I'd post a video as proof, but the January 2020 Red drivers at bootcampdrivers.com don't seem to support video capture.

Obviously this will limit the amount of CPU horsepower available within Boot Camp. So this approach may not be suitable for people who do serious work in Windows. But I use Boot Camp for gaming and general use, not anything serious like video editing or running a dozen VMs. I'm also using the Windows version of Macs Fan Control to ramp up the fans pretty early. Though some might not like the noise, I can just use headphones if it bothers me.
 
I'll add my two cents here. I took a different approach. I forced Windows (and all the programs running in Windows) to only use four cores and eight threads. This can be done by typing "msconfig.exe" in the Search bar (next to the Start button) and opening up the configuration utility. On the Boot tab, look for Advanced, then set the maximum number of processors (actually threads) to 8. This video details the process:


According to task manager, this forces the Windows to only use half the available cores and threads on my i9, effectively turning it into an i5. This has a triple benefit; it causes the CPU to use less power, generate substantially less heat and hit higher frequencies, which is often more important to games than total number of cores. Using less power and generating less heat also gives the GPU more thermal and power headroom.

I haven't done formal benchmarks, but a casual test in the game Control saw my 4GB 5500M hitting 1150MHz - 1200MHz and frame rates in the mid- to high fifties. The game was running at 3072x1920, with a render resolution of 1920x1200, high textures and a mix of low and medium lighting & effects. I'd post a video as proof, but the January 2020 Red drivers at bootcampdrivers.com don't seem to support video capture.

Obviously this will limit the amount of CPU horsepower available within Boot Camp. So this approach may not be suitable for people who do serious work in Windows. But I use Boot Camp for gaming and general use, not anything serious like video editing or running a dozen VMs. I'm also using the Windows version of Macs Fan Control to ramp up the fans pretty early. Though some might not like the noise, I can just use headphones if it bothers me.


This actually really helpful. I have same system as you and struggled for weeks. First time i did April blue drivers, throttlestop and macfancontrol with settings from youtube video.
I tried to play Valorant and it was fine for 30 mins and then FPS suddenly became unstable and CPU frequency was dropped low. I even nearly burnt (presumably) my VRM by playing in Valorant in this mode one game - I switched back to MacOS to do some work and screen was blinking, fans was full speed for hour and after that it was fine.

I tried other drivers (January blue, January red, April red) and result was the same. I gave up on idea to play on this thing but kept scrolling threads. I summed up some ideas and ended up with this.

- January Red Drivers (I think drivers is not really main point of failure, so you can get any of them)
- msconfig processors set to 8
- I turned off Turbo Boost without side programs with power managment panel (set 99% max power).
- Used macfancontrol with fan curve like in one of videos (based on CPU and GPU sensors)

I thought that this will be enough to stop it from throttle BUT it throttled again after 10 minutes in Heaven benchmark on high in 1080p. I figured out from other posts that VRM sensor is not working like it should in windows so even if GPU is in good temperature it will eventually throttle.

I just manually set Right fan in macfancontrol to max and after that it was stable. I even played Doom Eternal for hour without throttle on medium settings and 1080p in 60 fps (I can push more but i set 60fps manually for better stability).
I don't think that I will play anything from AAA on this thing but at least it is stable now to play some overwatch or something similar when i am not home.
I think there is room to boost cpu clock with throttlestop or Quick CPU but it is not bad without boost.
Maybe i am not right that VRM is issue but It is working and it is only thing that matters.
 
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@Egor Zotov Glad that was some help. Just wanted to note that every driver I tried caused some kind of issue except the January Red driver. I briefly re-tried the April Blue driver, but found that some games would cause the MacBook to reboot. So for now I've decided to stick with January Red. I think the modder who hacks the AMD drivers will be back in August, so hopefully we won't have to wait too long for newer drivers.

Did adding thermal pads help you in any noticeable way? I'm leery of making any hardware modifications, even something as minor as thermal pads.
 
Hi no, but i would assume the 5500 is still too weak to really need and properly use 8gb vram for gaming. This would probably be much more useful for editing. For gaming, I’d stick with the 5300.

I'd take the 5500M with 4Gb for gaming. I agree with you that 8GB on that GPU is not going to make much sense for games... the GPU won't be able to handle resolutions where 8GB becomes relevant. But those extra CUs on the 5500M are nice to have.

I can accept this as a benefit for sure. But I'm worried about the 5500M throttling and jumping FPS around VS the 5300M. Sorry I don't want to dig in on this, just thought I'd check whether anyone had stats to compare.

I haven't noticed any throttling on my 5500M with i9 2.4Ghz CPU no matter what I did to it. So far it runs any game I threw at it smoothly and nicely on medium/high settings 1920x1200.
 
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I'd take the 5500M with 4Gb for gaming. I agree with you that 8GB on that GPU is not going to make much sense for games... the GPU won't be able to handle resolutions where 8GB becomes relevant. But those extra CUs on the 5500M are nice to have.



I haven't noticed any throttling on my 5500M with i9 2.4Ghz CPU no matter what I did to it. So far it runs any game I threw at it smoothly and nicely on medium/high settings 1920x1200.
This is really good to know, thanks!
 
@Egor Zotov Glad that was some help. Just wanted to note that every driver I tried caused some kind of issue except the January Red driver. I briefly re-tried the April Blue driver, but found that some games would cause the MacBook to reboot. So for now I've decided to stick with January Red. I think the modder who hacks the AMD drivers will be back in August, so hopefully we won't have to wait too long for newer drivers.

Did adding thermal pads help you in any noticeable way? I'm leery of making any hardware modifications, even something as minor as thermal pads.

Thermal pads made a massive difference to me. https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/2018-macbook-pro-cooling-mod.2147106/post-28510576
 
Apple announced a major upgrade on the GPU today for the MacBook Pro 16". Maxtech just uploaded a video announcing the new 5600M GPU which looks like a beast for gaming - they are getting one on Wednesday, he says he will specifically be testing gaming benchmarks so watch for it before you buy! Watch his video from today to learn a little...
 
Apple announced a major upgrade on the GPU today for the MacBook Pro 16". Maxtech just uploaded a video announcing the new 5600M GPU which looks like a beast for gaming - they are getting one on Wednesday, he says he will specifically be testing gaming benchmarks so watch for it before you buy!

I'd expect it to be around the RTX 2060 (laptop) level, give or take. At any rate, that is a real feat from AMD at 50W TDP. Then again these GPUs cost an arm and a leg. Must be some cream of the crop parts, and then of course you have HBM2 with 2048-bit bus which by itself is utterly ridiculous for a laptop this size...
 
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I'd expect it to be around the RTX 2060 (laptop) level, give or take. At any rate, that is a real feat from AMD at 50W TDP. Then again these GPUs cost an arm and a leg. Must be some cream of the crop parts, and then of course you have HBM2 with 2048-bit bus which by itself is utterly ridiculous for a laptop this size...

Having it at the RTX 2060 level isn’t great since that part is about 500 days old now. Really hope Apple either go custom GPUs or NVIDIA.
 
Having it at the RTX 2060 level isn’t great since that part is about 500 days old now. Really hope Apple either go custom GPUs or NVIDIA.

Your expectations might be a bit unrealistic. It’s a 16mm thick laptop we are talking about... Nvidia doesn’t have anything better in this category. The most you can hope for is a max-q 1660ti which is 20% faster than the 5500M.

I think this AMD custom (5600M) putting out similar performance to an Nvidia part that needs at least double the power is nothing short of impressive from technology standpoint. Of course, what matters most are benchmarks. The 5600M might end up to be disappointing.
 
I've run into an issue with at least one game and the January Red drivers. In the game Control, textures can become very low resolution in expansive, wide open game areas. I mean so bad that the rocks in some areas are pure black, without any features or reflections. Basically a bare model with black skin on it.

In contrast, the same game under Linux renders all the textures properly, though at the cost of more erratic performance. Has anyone else noticed this with Jan. Red package?

@randomhkkid Do the thermal pads make the bottom of the laptop unbearably hot? I.e., unusable as a regular laptop?
 
Left field question, but is there a reason that people use throttlestop with bootcamp anymore?

I've found that setting the max processor state in Windows power settings to 99% as some others have suggested elsewhere stops turboboost from happening and keep which works really well with the 16 inch Macbook Pro which already has good base clock speeds.

Together with the January Blue Bootcamp drivers and Macs Fan Control set to kick in at 60 degrees and max out at 78 degrees I'm finding I get a very consistent 60fps with 1920x1080 or 2560x1440 depending on the game and Ultra graphics settings when playing games like Gears Of War 4/5, Forza Horizon 3/4 for long periods of time. I'm on an i9 2.3GHZ 16 Inch Macbook Pro with Radeon 5500m 8 GB Graphics.

Yes, you can get far better gaming computers for the money, but for a laptop which still gives me all the benefits of Mac OS and apple's hardware, this thing does a great job with gaming in settings that are more powerful than any current generation console.
 
Left field question, but is there a reason that people use throttlestop with bootcamp anymore?

I've found that setting the max processor state in Windows power settings to 99% as some others have suggested elsewhere stops turboboost from happening and keep which works really well with the 16 inch Macbook Pro which already has good base clock speeds.

Together with the January Blue Bootcamp drivers and Macs Fan Control set to kick in at 60 degrees and max out at 78 degrees I'm finding I get a very consistent 60fps with 1920x1080 or 2560x1440 depending on the game and Ultra graphics settings when playing games like Gears Of War 4/5, Forza Horizon 3/4 for long periods of time. I'm on an i9 2.3GHZ 16 Inch Macbook Pro with Radeon 5500m 8 GB Graphics.

Yes, you can get far better gaming computers for the money, but for a laptop which still gives me all the benefits of Mac OS and apple's hardware, this thing does a great job with gaming in settings that are more powerful than any current generation console.
I use throttlestop because it allows me to keep turbo boost, hitting higher clock speeds for games that don't use many threads, while keeping power / temperature in check. I find lowering the power limit of the CPU within Throttlestop however keeping all turbo frequencies at stock generally gives me better performance than artificially disabling turbo speeds.
 
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