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Gaming Passing Us BY Now

gkarris said:
People keep mentioning they want an "open Mac"... :eek:
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Yes, and when Apple actually crunched the numbers, the Mac that were actually selling in the biggest numbers weren't the "open" Macs, but the iMacs and MacBooks; machines that were less "open".

faust said:
It would be really nice if gaming were thriving on Mac, but it's not. I fear the gap between PC gaming and Mac gaming has become so huge that it would take a strong investment by Apple to close it. As a matter of fact, I do all my gaming on the computer I built.
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On what grounds? That the latest and greatest shiny AAA titles aren't on the Mac? That's always been the case for the Mac, and it has been that way ever since the end of the EGA/DOS glory days of Lucas Arts/Sierra/EA.

Neither Mac gaming, nor gaming as a whole begin and end solely with big budget AAA games with zOMG graphics. If that's what all gaming is for you, then more power to you. But you simply can't look at the state of the first-release big-budget AAA market and then state that ALL Mac gaming is equally poor. Between GOG and Humble, I've got more great Mac games available to me than I can handle.

As for the gaming "gap": why would it be worth the time, money and resources to Apple to make a concerted effort to court "hardcore" gamers? Is there any data at all to support the notion that the hardcore PC gaming market would be more profitable for Apple than say, the current market for the iPhone and iPad?
 
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rampancy said:
Neither Mac gaming, nor gaming as a whole begin and end solely with big budget AAA games with zOMG graphics. If that's what all gaming is for you, then more power to you. But you simply can't look at the state of the first-release big-budget AAA market and then state that ALL Mac gaming is equally poor. Between GOG and Humble, I've got more great Mac games available to me than I can handle.

As for the gaming "gap": why would it be worth the time, money and resources to Apple to make a concerted effort to court "hardcore" gamers? Is there any data at all to support the notion that the hardcore PC gaming market would be more profitable for Apple than say, the current market for the iPhone and iPad?
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I have to agree with you on this and I should have been more specific in my OP, it is the OMG graphics games that are passing us by and OMG graphics are not what great gameplay is all about never never has been for me. Since the advent of GOG I to have over 200 titles mostly RPG/adventure games, as you say more titles than I have the hours to ever play.

If you are an RPG/Adventure player between GOG and Steam ( if you use it ) and setting up Bootcamp you will have a HUGE back catalogue of games and even newer ones to ever fill your gaming needs. Some of the older RPG/Adenture titles are still very viable today to play, The Elder Scrolls Morrowind III for one absolutely hours and hours of game content to fight your way through. Then come right up to today and I am eagerly awaiting the soon to be released
Torment: Tides of Numenera a Mac release.

If you want fantastic OMG graphics and or button mashing game content then buy or build a power PC, or buy into the console market PS4 or though I am loathe to say it an Xbox of one sort or another.

Happy gaming with whatever route you take, its about fun/enjoyment not look at the OMG graphics in what is actually a crap game.

Answered my own OP here, it's what happens when your brain gets put into gear correctly.
 
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Washac said:
I have to agree with you on this and I should have been more specific in my OP, it is the OMG graphics games that are passing us by and OMG graphics are not what great gameplay is all about never never has been for me. Since the advent of GOG I to have over 200 titles mostly RPG/adventure games, as you say more titles than I have the hours to ever play.

If you are an RPG/Adventure player between GOG and Steam ( if you use it ) and setting up Bootcamp you will have a HUGE back catalogue of games and even newer ones to ever fill your gaming needs. Some of the older RPG/Adenture titles are still very viable today to play, The Elder Scrolls Morrowind III for one absolutely hours and hours of game content to fight your way through. Then come right up to today and I am eagerly awaiting the soon to be released
Torment: Tides of Numenera a Mac release.

If you want fantastic OMG graphics and or button mashing game content then buy or build a power PC, or buy into the console market PS4 or though I am loathe to say it an Xbox of one sort or another.

Happy gaming with whatever route you take, its about fun/enjoyment not look at the OMG graphics in what is actually a crap game.

Answered my own OP here, it's what happens when your brain gets put into gear correctly.
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Sorry Washac, but that is a generalisation that is simply untrue IMO.
There are loads of games with 'OMG' graphics that have excellent gameplay, and loads of graphically poor games that have poor gameplay.
In my experience over many years of gaming, there is no relationship between graphic quality and gameplay quality.
 
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imacken said:
Sorry Washac, but that is a generalisation that is simply untrue IMO.
There are loads of games with 'OMG' graphics that have excellent gameplay, and loads of graphically poor games that have poor gameplay.
In my experience over many years of gaming, there is no relationship between graphic quality and gameplay quality.
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This.

A whole bunch of gaming gems missed the Mac platform and the list is huge. Dragon Age Inquisition, Witcher 3, Dark Souls 3, Elder Scrolls Skyrim are a few that I can think instantly. All of them RPGs / ARPGs. All of them with great graphics. And all of them are milestones for their genre, regarding gameplay/storytelling/gaming experience.
 
antonis said:
This.

A whole bunch of gaming gems missed the Mac platform and the list is huge. Dragon Age Inquisition, Witcher 3, Dark Souls 3, Elder Scrolls Skyrim are a few that I can think instantly. All of them RPGs / ARPGs. All of them with great graphics. And all of them are milestones for their genre, regarding gameplay/storytelling/gaming experience.
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Precisely my point!
 
Elder Scrolls Skyrim

This would have never and probably never will come to the Mac, did Bethesda not say once that they would never put out a Mac game ? They never have so far.

As for the others mentioned why bring them to the Mac they run under Bootcamp.
 
Washac said:
As for the others mentioned why bring them to the Mac they run under Bootcamp.
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Just as well Feral and Aspyr don't have that attitude!
Anyway, antonis' point was they are examples of games that have both excellent graphics and gameplay.
 
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antonis said:
This.

A whole bunch of gaming gems missed the Mac platform and the list is huge. Dragon Age Inquisition, Witcher 3, Dark Souls 3, Elder Scrolls Skyrim are a few that I can think instantly. All of them RPGs / ARPGs. All of them with great graphics. And all of them are milestones for their genre, regarding gameplay/storytelling/gaming experience.
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Of those listed only Witcher and Dragon Age have previously come to the Mac, the others would have been dependent on Aspyr, Feral etc. convincing the publisher to license. As others pointed out Bethesda won't, so Mac gaming would never have got all of them. That said they are all very, very good games and not having any of them is a shame.
 
old-mac-man said:
Eldar Scrolls Online?
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For what it is worth, I did pitch bringing the rest of the games to Mac, before I left the company last April...


My personnel opinion is that the Mac AAA game market is so small vs every other platform it is just not on anyones radar.

I estimates are it runs about 5% of the PC game market.

So for example you can ship 1m copies of a big AAA game on Windows or PS4 or xbox.
and only 5% of 1m on mac maybe...

I should point out it is almost impossible to actually higher Mac programmers.
Let alone experienced Mac game programmers. ( A niche of a niche )

I can count at least 5 (DC / Baltimore ) Mac jobs, 3 were game related and were open for years.
That included the ESO and CIV teams.

Also gaming PCs are really cheap these days. $500-$600 will buy a decent gaming PC with GPU.

-- Rabbit that Made ESO for Mac...
 
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TheBunny said:
My personnel opinion is that the Mac AAA game market is so small vs every other platform it is just not on anyones radar.

I estimates are it runs about 5% of the PC game market.

So for example you can ship 1m copies of a big AAA game on Windows or PS4 or xbox.
and only 5% of 1m on mac maybe...
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It's a chicken-and-egg problem that isn't helped by the fact Apple doesn't sell powerful computers anymore though, right? These days, the vast majority of people who actually have a Mac system are running on Intel integrated GPUs. I've always found it sad/funny how many people end up complaining that they bought an entry-level Mac laptop or iMac, only to find out that it's barely able to play games at the lowest graphics settings and at non-Retina resolutions. The modern iGPUs are certainly better than older versions, but they're still no comparison to a mid-range or high-end discrete GPU (not that Apple sells systems with those either).
 
faust said:
Hahaha, Apple isn't courting traditional computer users at all. After all, who needs more than an iPad Pro!?
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Apple feels like they're skating to where the puck is going (to use an old Gretsky quote dropped by Jobs). The market is moving away from traditional monolithic desktops and notebooks to more mobile devices. If Apple continued to make the same kinds of machines they always did, we'd still be on PPC Macs running some kind of iteration of OS 9.
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imacken said:
Sorry Washac, but that is a generalisation that is simply untrue IMO. There are loads of games with 'OMG' graphics that have excellent gameplay, and loads of graphically poor games that have poor gameplay. In my experience over many years of gaming, there is no relationship between graphic quality and gameplay quality.
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No one's saying that "Good graphics = Bad game", but people continually insist on seeing the Mac gaming market as something that has to be competitive with Windows or consoles. It doesn't. People see the dearth of big-budget AAA gaming titles on the Mac and somehow act as if Mac gaming is dead. It isn't. It just hasn't taken the exact form that the "hardcore" gamers (who would do all of their core gaming on a PC or a console anyway) feel is the only form that gaming should be.
 
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I had a Mac Pro with D700's - basically the fastest GPU's available from Apple today. As a gaming platform it was easily beaten by an average PC with decent GPU (3770K with a 980 Ti). I got the Mac Pro because I wanted a machine that would meet all my requirements - VMware, Photoshop, general 'stuff' and games. It was great at everything except games. Even in bootcamp it sucked.

I've now moved back to a PC because that does meet all my requirements. Sure I prefer Mac OS, but my new PC is faster at everything.

As others have said Apple never intended the Mac to be a games platform, it's just something else it can kind of do. MS have been pushing Windows as a games platform for years and it has a much larger market share. For mobile gaming, iPhone and iPad definitely hold their own and that is Apple's gaming strategy. If Apple wanted to make the Mac a gaming platform they would start by enabling GPU's to be swapped on their most popular desktop model and actively push their gaming API's, but they aren't doing this and probably never will.
 
I just want to put to bed a couple of things:

1) the Mac is not a gaming platform. In my opinion, this is a nonsense. Of course, playing games on a Windows PC will be a better experience in general, but that does not stop the Mac as being a perfectly good gaming platform. I have a late 2015 iMac with 4GHz i7 and 395X 4Gb and have played a lot of games over the last few years very successfully, similarly on my previous iMac as well. Off the top of my head, these are some of the titles I have played at 1440p at either high or ultra settings -
Mad Max
Deus Ex Human Revolution
Alien Isolation
XCOM 2
Thief 2014
GRID Autosport
Shadow of Mordor
Tomb Raider 2013
Max Payne 3
Elite Dangerous
Hitman Absolution
SOMA
Walking Dead
Bioshock Infinite
X Rebirth
Batman Arkham City
F1 2013
Dirt 3

2) the Mac is not even very good at gaming in Bootcamp. With the dearth of big Mac games in the last (almost) year, I have largely switched to Windows Bootcamp for gaming. In the last few months, I have played and enjoyed the following games at 1440p, again at high or ultra settings using the latest Radeon Crimson drivers -
Rise of the Tomb Raider (DX12)
Deus Ex: Mankind Divided (DX12)
DCS World
F1 2016
Fallout 4
Dishonored 2.

I am very worried about the state of Mac gaming at the moment, whether that is for Metal reasons or something else. Look at my list in 1) above. Almost all these games were released in a 2 or 3 year period, and there were many others that I didn't play! Apart from Civ 6, can anyone mention a game in the same league as those listed in 1) that has been released in the last 12 months for Mac?

Don't get me wrong, when big games come back to the Mac - and I hope they do - I will be back supporting Feral, Aspyr, etc.
 
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Let me reiterate for the umpteenth time on this thread (and everytime this subject comes up) if you like this sort of thing (realistic sims) X-plane is fantastic, the only general flight sim still being made and updated (there is another windows only DCS - digital combat simulator which is fantastic but more specialised) and it runs well on Macs.
 
decafjava said:
Let me reiterate for the umpteenth time on this thread (and everytime this subject comes up) if you like this sort of thing (realistic sims) X-plane is fantastic, the only general flight sim still being made and updated (there is another windows only DCS - digital combat simulator which is fantastic but more specialised) and it runs well on Macs.
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What about Prepar3d? Never coming to Mac, obviously, but it's still being made, constantly updated and is compatible with a lot more add-ons than x-plane. Not that it has anything to do with this thread, mind.
 
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garnerx said:
What about Prepar3d? Never coming to Mac, obviously, but it's still being made, constantly updated and is compatible with a lot more add-ons than x-plane. Not that it has anything to do with this thread, mind.
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Didn't know about that one - very impressive!
 
steve23094 said:
It wouldn't solve the problem in the slightest. Number of Mac owners vs Windows = very small number. Number of Mac owners who game = vanishingly small. Number of Mac owners who game and would also own an eGPU = infinitesimally small. Number of Mac owners who game, own an eGPU and decide to buy your game = forget it.

The potential market size for any developer wouldn't be worth them spending any time on it.
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If you build it they will come.
 
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