Garmin Reacts to Apple Watch Ultra: 'We Measure Battery Life in Months. Not Hours.'

[agmr]

Garmin will sell more LTE watches in the future, if they find a way to fit it into their massively oversized portfolio.

 

[solq]

It's like this: Apple used to only make 8 pound boat anchors. They realized there was a sizable market of boat owners that needed 12 pound boat anchors. These customers were either struggling to make the 8 pound boat anchors work or buying 50 pound boat anchors from Garmin. Since this lack of choice resulted in Garmin selling a lot more 50 pound boat anchors than the market really needed. They incorrectly correlated that there was a big market for 50 pound boat anchors. Now that Apple offers a 12 pound boat anchor, Garmin's potential market shrinks to those that only need 13-50 pound boat anchors while those that actually need 13 - 50 pound boat anchors have a hard time understanding they are in the minority.

I see what you’re saying but to me the analogy is that Apple made 8 lb boat anchors while Garmin made automobiles. People who needed boat anchors purchased from Apple, people who needed automobiles from Garmin. Now Apple makes 12lb boat anchors and lots of people are saying that instead of an automobile from Garmin customers will flock to the 12lb boat anchors.

I doubt it.

Something that not many here are even considering is that the Ultra is a very large watch. I think it will outright exclude most women and be really awkward for everyone with smaller wrists.

 

[Alan Wynn]

I don't get this LTE watch thing. I'm not with the most expensive carrier and right now the LTE watch addon option on my phone contract would cost me 90 francs a year (currently on special offer down from 120!).

I think I understand your worldview. Everything that Apple Watches can do that Garmin cannot is not just not needed by you it is bad, wasteful or frivolous. There is no use case other than your (as defined by Garmin's feature set).

Since I always have my phone with me, and I don't understand why I wouldn't have my phone with me - unless I lost it, this is 90 francs too expensive.

On one hand you argue that you cannot have your phone support your watch's GPS because that is bad, but on the other had you cannot have a situation where you cannot be without it. Got it.

Is this free for you in the US or wherever you live? I would think that unless it costs a trivial amount of money it's just not worth paying for this "feature". A phone is such a relatively small and lightweight item that you can always carry it with you, even when running.

I pay $5 a month for it, my bf would pay $10. He has an LTE watch without service, as a safety measure (the watch can call emergency services anywhere in the world without paying for service). Only one Garmin device even has anything like that as an option.

I get it that on a marathon or when swimming you probably don't want your phone, but you probably don't care about making calls or texting in these circumstances.

Now I know that I have listed examples before and you just ignored them, I will do it again, so others can understand the benefits.

I live walking distance from a few beaches (and close driving distance from many others). When I walk there, I can leave my iPhone at home. I can send and receive text messages, telegram messages, and most importantly iMessages. I can make and receive phone calls (even if just "should I grab food for you on the way home?"). I can lock and unlock my door at home, and soon I will be able to unlock my car.

This means that I do not have to carry my iPhone and leave it on the beach when I am in the water.

I play soccer and can walk to a few different soccer fields. I can go and still be reachable without needing to take my phone and leave it on the side of the field (sometimes we have a team bench, many times we do not).

I do play tennis or basketball, but I understand that others do. Having an LTE watch means not needing a phone to remain in communications.

I could go on, but if you are honest, you will get the point.

It feels like people tie themselves in logical pretzels trying to justify LTE calling when there's very little, if any, genuine need for it, it's more of a cool "look what my watch can do, I'm like Batman" thing.

I make or receive a call on my watch at least a few times a month. You seem to be so fixated on what others think ("Garmin watches are manly"), that it seems impossible for you to believe that people do things for their own benefit, not only for how the look. There are 100 million Apple Watches (meaning they are pretty common), seems like an odd view to think that using one would even cause anyone to notice, let alone be impressed.

Again, is it free? If not, why is it worth it? Can you look at your number of uses per year and divide by cost and not be mildly horrified on throwing money away?

Well, even at $120 a year, I would not be horrified if I never used it one time, just for the peace of mind. However, given that I use it pretty often, I think the service is very convenient.

 

[Alan Wynn]

But 2FA, for me is almost exclusively (1) putting in a code received via SMS or (2) authenticating yourself on a banking app, on the phone. I just don't see how the watch would help much here.

Everyone of my credit cards and most of my banks have a Watch app for two factor notification. Several of the organizations with whom I work use Duo for two factor (also a Watch app). I never have to pull my iPhone out of my pocket to authenticate my login. I have almost no services that are allowed to do two factor with SMS as it is so insecure.

2FA is so rare, and when needed I am generally at my computer or doing something with my phone (in my hand) that moving part of the process to a watch doesn't make it more convenient.

I log in to my Mac without needing a password using my watch. I prefer to leave my phone in my pocket, so I much prefer using my watch to authenticate whenever I can.

Sorry, I don't see how this is the killer app.

No one of these apps are "the killer app", it is the overall value of the ecosystem that is so strong and compelling for people.

Podcasts you can do with the Garmin,

If you remember to download them before you leave or you have your phone with you. Same with music. Having an LTE connection means I can download a podcast whenever I want.

payments,

Garmin Pay does not seem to support American Express nor many of the major U.S. credit unions.

and I'm not sure why you'd want Strava when you have superb built in fitness apps including running.

I do not use it, but lots of people enjoy sharing their rides and runs.

You could say that you really want to talk into your wrist and that's that, you got to get an Apple Watch. But if that was your killer use case, you won't throw away your Garmin now to get an Ultra because it can do that. You were already on the hook with Apple Watches.

There were many reasons to have an Apple Watch over a Garmin for many users. The Ultra just added some other benefits to make it so even more people can now pick an Apple Watch over a Garmin. Still does not work for everyone, but with each release and new hardware the list of people for whom it does not work gets smaller.

 

[solq]

I think I understand your worldview. Everything that Apple Watches can do that Garmin cannot is not just not needed by you it is bad, wasteful or frivolous. There is no use case other than your (as defined by Garmin's feature set).

Sorry, you didn’t understand. Perhaps I didn’t explain it well. None of the things you mentioned are new to the Ultra, and none would make someone move from a Garmin to an Apple Watch. If opening your door with your watch (bad idea, I work in security) is paramount, there was no way you’d have bought a Garmin to begin with. And I do find your desire to be connected at all times, while playing sports (alone), if not frivolous, a little pathological.

You made another error in assuming there’s an inconsistency between my having the phone but wanting the watch to have good battery life with GPS on and offline maps. You don’t understand that for me it’s much more important to preserve the phone’s battery when I’m out hiking. My phone needs low power mode every day, it just doesn’t have that great battery life. I don’t want to burden it with GPS tracking (for hours) on top of everything else.

 

[Mattrg]

Still ugly AF?

What is it that the competition can’t understand? I don’t wear my watch to bed, so have no issue with placing it on the charger at night. I care about a lot more than just battery life, which outlasts my daily routine (even after several years of daily usage). I’m able to put on before I leave, go about a full day, come home and exercise, place on charger before bed, all with 20-30% battery life left.

While I’d like a little bit better design (flatten for one) it’s still the best looking smart watch out there.

 

[Alan Wynn]

Sorry, you didn’t understand. Perhaps I didn’t explain it well. None of the things you mentioned are new to the Ultra, and none would make someone move from a Garmin to an Apple Watch.

The point is those are all benefits of Apple Watches, but before there were people for whom the battery life or swimming/diving functionality was not enough. The Ultra moves that line a bit further. Again, it is about the ecosystem.

If opening your door with your watch (bad idea, I work in security) is paramount,

I work in security as well. Can you provide any documented vulnerability for CarKey, HomeKey, HotelKey, or OfficeKey?

Again, I never said it was paramount, just an advantage. One of many. Battery life was a disadvantage for some. The Ultra makes that group smaller.

there was no way you’d have bought a Garmin to begin with.

You seem to have a hard time understanding that people make decisions by evaluating sets of functions. Apple always had many advantages over Garmin and Garmin had some advantages over Apple. As an example, when I but my first Garmin bike computer, there were no Bluetooth bike speed or cadence sensors, nor were there any heart rate monitors or foot pods. Now there are many (several of which will even bridge to ANT+). At that point I could not have used an iPhone or Apple Watch (even if they had existed), as the hardware did not exist. When Wahoo Fitness came out with the Blue SC and Polar came out with the H7, both of those issues went away. In re-evaluating the environment, some things that would have encouraged people to pick Garmin stopped being advantages for them.

In the same way, while all those apps, features and connectivity options were in Apple’s favor before, for some people their GPS performance and battery life pushed them into Garmin’s camp. Some, not all, of those will look at the Ultra and decide that the scale has now tipped in Apple’s favor.

And I do find your desire to be connected at all times, while playing sports (alone), if not frivolous, a little pathological.

I find it funny that you say you never go anywhere without your phone so you do not need LTE on your watch, but at the same time, say that my having LTE on my watch so that I can be connected without having to carry my watch is pathological. Like every point you seem to make, only your use cases are valid.

You made another error in assuming there’s an inconsistency between my having the phone but wanting the watch to have good battery life with GPS on and offline maps. You don’t understand that for me it’s much more important to preserve the phone’s battery when I’m out hiking. My phone needs low power mode every day, it just doesn’t have that great battery life. I don’t want to burden it with GPS tracking (for hours) on top of everything else.

I have an iPhone 11 Pro and I cannot think of the last time I needed low power mode. It seems our experiences differ.

 

[solq]

Everyone of my credit cards and most of my banks have a Watch app for two factor notification. Several of the organizations with whom I work use Duo for two factor (also a Watch app). I never have to pull my iPhone out of my pocket to authenticate my login. I have almost no services that are allowed to do two factor with SMS as it is so insecure.

I log in to my Mac without needing a password using my watch. I prefer to leave my phone in my pocket, so I much prefer using my watch to authenticate whenever I can.

No one of these apps are "the killer app", it is the overall value of the ecosystem that is so strong and compelling for people.

If you remember to download them before you leave or you have your phone with you. Same with music. Having an LTE connection means I can download a podcast whenever I want.

Garmin Pay does not seem to support American Express nor many of the major U.S. credit unions.

I do not use it, but lots of people enjoy sharing their rides and runs.

There were many reasons to have an Apple Watch over a Garmin for many users. The Ultra just added some other benefits to make it so even more people can now pick an Apple Watch over a Garmin. Still does not work for everyone, but with each release and new hardware the list of people for whom it does not work gets smaller.

Just a cursory examination shows that Gamin Pay does work with all sorts of credit unions including several of the major ones but that’s beside the point - you need just one card to work. Apple Pay doesn’t work with all my cards either, but that’s fine, it works with a couple and that’s enough should I actually need it which is very rare, since I actually have my wallet and my cards with me when I go out.

Your 2FA examples seem weak, I don’t see how they improve your life. My TV might be able to do 2FA but it’s neither here or there - I just need one competent device to do 2FA and that’s it. It doesn’t matter that SMS 2FA is not that secure - it’s the most prevalent one, it’s not like I choose it. Plus, I highly doubt that my 2FA applications will do anything but show a notification on an Apple Watch - same as any smartwatch. Not to mention that my main banking 2FA app requires my phone to scan a complex image similar to a QR code (but it’s proprietary) so a watch would be as useful as a chocolate teapot.

You guys keep coming with your rather feeble and far fetched scenarios and I am left unmoved. I think you like Apple Watch not because of what it does but because of how it does it, and because it’s Apple. Then you present all these reverse engineered justifications.

I don’t see how the Ultra moved the needle at all, from Garmin. It attacks none of their strong points. I think it will be a very niche product that will cannibalize a few Apple Watch sales and that’s it.

To get into Garmin territory Apple needs many things starting with a week long battery life.

 

[solq]

You seem to have a hard time understanding that people make decisions by evaluating sets of functions. Apple always had many advantages over Garmin and Garmin had some advantages over Apple. As an example, when I but my first Garmin bike computer, there were no Bluetooth bike speed or cadence sensors, nor were there any heart rate monitors or foot pods. Now there are many (several of which will even bridge to ANT+). At that point I could not have used an iPhone or Apple Watch (even if they had existed), as the hardware did not exist. When Wahoo Fitness came out with the Blue SC and Polar came out with the H7, both of those issues went away. In re-evaluating the environment, some things that would have encouraged people to pick Garmin stopped being advantages for them.

I just think these ecosystems are worlds apart. Your case in point, since you seem to care about cycling: you were unhappy with Garmin’s offering, you moved to Wahoo (and presumably became a #wahooligan?). So you moved to something that was at least equally focused on the task at hand, not just a general purpose fashion item to impress your friends with.

I find it funny that you say you never go anywhere without your phone so you do not need LTE on your watch, but at the same time, say that my having LTE on my watch so that I can be connected without having to carry my watch is pathological. Like every point you seem to make, only your use cases are valid.

Yeah but you know, if I’d go play tennis or soccer I’d leave my phone in the locker room, I don’t need to be callable and textable at all times…

You have a lot, and a mean a huge amount of respect and admiration for your watch and its usefulness, and I have very little. In general I think that smartwatches are a bit superfluous - I owned a lot - but they can get some stuff done, particularly stuff they’re in unique position to. And those unique positions are around mostly notifications display, workout monitoring, health monitoring and sleep tracking. And these are the “killer” apps.

All these 2FA or flight tracking or payments or podcasts or music controls or whatever apps don’t impress me, on Garmin or Apple Watch or otherwise, I’ve seen them and I think the reason you want them on Apple Watch is not because you cannot do without them or because they greatly improve your life but most likely because you like having this tech with florid animations on your wrist.

That’s fine but for whoever wasn’t impressed before won’t be impressed with the Ultra. It’s not a tool for a job, it’s just another Apple Watch.

I have an iPhone 11 Pro and I cannot think of the last time I needed low power mode. It seems our experiences differ.

They certainly do - I’m in the red at 17% and I already topped off the bugger (same model as yours) a little earlier. I didn’t even use it that much today. It’s the main reason why I’m upgrading this year, I’m sick of the poor battery life.

 

[jdechko]

I do not think that this watch will kill Garmin, but the Ultra should be of serious concern for Garmin for the simple reason that it shows Apple has now started to focus some energy on Garmin's market. If Apple iterates the way they have, they will begin to chip away at the larger and lower end components of Garmin's market. Keeping people from entering the ecosystem is the biggest risk to Garmin's future in the space.

I have no idea how many Ultra sales will be to former Garmin customers, but I am sure that many Ultras will be sold to existing Apple Watch users, and many who have not yet tried the watch because they were concerned about making it though a day on a charge.


That was what Blackberry said. Apple took some time to establish a market for itself and now it is targeting a chunk of Garmin's market (the lower end for sure). History shows us that Apple will continue to iterate and thanks to its size will continue to be able to offer things that Garmin is unlikely to be able to do (read Ray Maker's discussion about adding full LTE support), etc.

For the record, I traded my Edge bike computer for an iPhone because of the ecosystem.

I do hope Garmin takes the Ultra seriously, because it will hopefully motivate them and elevate their products. I also think that they've continued to have good offerings since the AW was released. The Venu 2 and 245 are good offerings that target some of the same markets.

And I think you and I agree that the Ultra will siphon a lot of lower-end AW sales. I just happen to think that most people have probably picked a camp and that there may be small fluctuations here and there.

As far as what happened with Blackberry, I think that it wasn't just Apple, but also Android that had a lot to do with their demise (mostly, though it was Apple). Apple will continue to iterate, and the latest watches show that. But as other commenters have posted, there's a whole segment of Android users that can't (realistically) use the Apple Watch. I follow DCR and a lot of his analysis is spot on (his reviews partially convinced me to switch to the Garmin ecosystem), but as he keenly notes, a lot of the shortcomings with Garmin have as much to do with Apple as they do with Garmin (replying to messages and Apple Music integration being two big ones). Also, not everyone wants full LTE integration. I only want LTE so my wife can follow along.

As far as using the iphone as a bike computer, there are a couple of issues I still have. First, the sensor connection support is difficult, and to my knowledge, no company makes an all-in-one app to replace a bike computer. Secondly, a lot of events prohibit 2-way communication devices, so an iPhone wouldn't be allowed.

 

[Alan Wynn]

Just a cursory examination shows that Gamin Pay does work with all sorts of credit unions including several of the major ones but that’s beside the point - you need just one card to work.

My statement was it does not work with American Express and with many of the top credit unions in the United States. Garmin Pay only works with 3 of the top 10 credit unions in the U.S., Apple Pay works with all of them. You may be happy with having one card, I want all my cards to work.

Apple Pay doesn’t work with all my cards either, but that’s fine, it works with a couple and that’s enough should I actually need it which is very rare, since I actually have my wallet and my cards with me when I go out.

I often do not carry my wallet, and even when I do, I only have one card in it, but have 9 cards in Apple Pay. That makes it super easy to use the card that gets the best rewards at each place without needing a giant wallet.

You continue to make me laugh by arguing against convenience because there is another solution. Yes there are other options, but Apple Pay on the my Apple Watch is among the most convenient solutions. In the same was as having my boarding pass on my watch is nicer than having to pull out my phone which is in my bag to go through security at the airport. While it is true that paper tickets worked for a long time, this is more convenient.

Your 2FA examples seem weak, I don’t see how they improve your life.

They improve my life because they make it easier. I do not have to have my phone in my hand (or even with me). If it is in my pocket, taking it out is a hassle. Is it a life threatening crisis no. Would it be the only reason to make a choice? No. Is it one more reason to pick the Apple Watch over Garmin? Absolutely.

My TV might be able to do 2FA but it’s neither here or there - I just need one competent device to do 2FA and that’s it. It doesn’t matter that SMS 2FA is not that secure - it’s the most prevalent one, it’s not like I choose it.

I think all my banks give me choice as to what I can use for two factor and almost all let me use a watch app. Given that it is more secure than SMS, I always pick it. If your TV was more convenient and more secure, why would you not use it?

Plus, I highly doubt that my 2FA applications will do anything but show a notification on an Apple Watch - same as any smartwatch.

All of mine let me approve from my watch, not just show me a notification.

Not to mention that my main banking 2FA app requires my phone to scan a complex image similar to a QR code (but it’s proprietary) so a watch would be as useful as a chocolate teapot.

Once again, your use case is the only valid one. I get it.

You guys keep coming with your rather feeble and far fetched scenarios and I am left unmoved. I think you like Apple Watch not because of what it does but because of how it does it, and because it’s Apple. Then you present all these reverse engineered justifications.

You keep saying far fetched, and yet I do these things every day. In the last two weeks, I think the only place I needed a physical credit card was Home Depot. Every other transaction I did with my watch. You have the world backwards. I am in the Apple ecosystem because it solves my problems. I cannot wait until my state allows me to have my driver’s license in my Apple Wallet, so that I will have one few reason to need my physical wallet (which states let one put their driver’s license on Garmin watches?).

I don’t see how the Ultra moved the needle at all, from Garmin. It attacks none of their strong points. I think it will be a very niche product that will cannibalize a few Apple Watch sales and that’s it.

It improves the battery life and adds L5 support. While it does not eliminate all of Garmin’s advantages, another group of people that are already in the Apple ecosystem will now be able to pick the Ultra over a Garmin product because it now has “enough” battery life. It cannot ”cannibalize” Apple Watch sales as it is an Apple Watch, and since it is more expensive, it raises the average sales price.

To get into Garmin territory Apple needs many things starting with a week long battery life.

This is just not true. To get into Garmin’s territory it just needs to continue to improving battery life for average athletes and continue improving its native apps so that for more and more potential Garmin users, the benefits of the Apple Watch and Apple ecosystem out weigh the detriments. The Ultra is the first product that shows that Apple wants to target more serious athlete and based on our experience, they can iterate much faster than other players and can get companies to support them in ways no one else can.

 

[Alan Wynn]

I just think these ecosystems are worlds apart. Your case in point, since you seem to care about cycling: you were unhappy with Garmin’s offering, you moved to Wahoo (and presumably became a #wahooligan?). So you moved to something that was at least equally focused on the task at hand, not just a general purpose fashion item to impress your friends with.

I do not buy anything to impress my friends. I hang out with many people who make way more money than I do, and can get whatever they want. Nothing I am going to buy would be difficult for them to acquire.

I bought Wahoo’s sensor’s because they were very big on support the Apple ecosystem and not trying to force me into theirs. I use some of their apps, and bought a RFLCT (they do seem to be vowel challenged), but I did not even consider their scale, as I already had a WiThings scale, and the health data ecosystem in which I live was and is Apple’s.

Yeah but you know, if I’d go play tennis or soccer I’d leave my phone in the locker room, I don’t need to be callable and textable at all times…

When I go play soccer, there is no locker room nor is there one near the tennis court. I said that. I wear my watch to gather health metrics while I play, but I love that it has LTE, so that I do not need to carry (and deal with) my phone.

I do not take calls while I am playing, just as I do not take calls when I am watching a movie. If I am playing in the surf (not surfing or swimming, just hanging out near the water’s edge), I might take a call or respond to a text. What is great is that I do not need to have my phone there at all, nor do I need to carry a house key. I love focus, and have many focus modes where calls and text messages are not displayed. That LTE on the watch gives me is the choice to respond when I want to do so, without being forced to have my phone with me everywhere.

You have a lot, and a mean a huge amount of respect and admiration for your watch and its usefulness, and I have very little. In general I think that smartwatches are a bit superfluous - I owned a lot - but they can get some stuff done, particularly stuff they’re in unique position to. And those unique positions are around mostly notifications display, workout monitoring, health monitoring and sleep tracking. And these are the “killer” apps.

It is clear that you are not really invested in the Apple ecosystem (as evidenced by the fact that you had an Android Ware watch, which makes little sense for an iOS user). You keep talking about tools for jobs, but refused to accept that anyone might have different needs. You want to have your phone with you and easily accessible everywhere. You seem to think that carrying a wallet is a positive. You probably like paper tickets. I use my Watch for a million things because it is always with me (since I am wearing it) and it makes my life easier. I rarely pull my phone out of my pocket, if I even have it with me. I almost never carry a wallet (I have a very insecure picture of my Driver’s License which has gotten me back into my hotel room when I walked out without my key).

All these 2FA or flight tracking or payments or podcasts or music controls or whatever apps don’t impress me, on Garmin or Apple Watch or otherwise,

They would not impress you on a Garmin because they either do not exist, or are not integrated into the ecosystem and so would need to be dealt with separately. On an Apple Watch, they are seamless and tightly integrated.

I’ve seen them and I think the reason you want them on Apple Watch is not because you cannot do without them or because they greatly improve your life but most likely because you like having this tech with florid animations on your wrist.

I lived before I had a cell phone, I lived before I had a smart phone, I lived before I had an option for electronic tickets. I do not use technology if it does not simplify or improve my life. It is clear that you know what is best for everyone, and understand their needs, better than they can possibly do so themselves.

That’s fine but for whoever wasn’t impressed before won’t be impressed with the Ultra. It’s not a tool for a job, it’s just another Apple Watch.

No. You are not impressed because you have decided that only Garmin is the answer. There are many other people who clearly feel differently. There are many people on here who have stated that they had Garmin watches and the Ultra made it possible for them to switch. Others have said they had both and the Ultra will make it possible to with the Apple Watch only. You can continue to deny that it will hurt Garmin (as can Garmin if they are), but I will bet you that they will sell fewer watches to iOS users as a result of the Ultra, and that as Apple continues to iterate, that group will get larger.

They certainly do - I’m in the red at 17% and I already topped off the bugger (same model as yours) a little earlier. I didn’t even use it that much today. It’s the main reason why I’m upgrading this year, I’m sick of the poor battery life.

Your battery life is probably so bad because you are constantly using it for things that would be better done on the smaller display of your watch.

 

[Alan Wynn]

If opening your door with your watch (bad idea, I work in security)

Still waiting for you to back up this statement.

 

[visualseed]

I see what you’re saying but to me the analogy is that Apple made 8 lb boat anchors while Garmin made automobiles. People who needed boat anchors purchased from Apple, people who needed automobiles from Garmin. Now Apple makes 12lb boat anchors and lots of people are saying that instead of an automobile from Garmin customers will flock to the 12lb boat anchors.

I doubt it.

Something that not many here are even considering is that the Ultra is a very large watch. I think it will outright exclude most women and be really awkward for everyone with smaller wrists.

I have never seen an automobile company get preemptively defensive about a boat anchor company before. It's not Apple that is looking directly at Garmin's market and saying "we want a piece of that." Apple has decided to expand their watch market up a notch to customers that are more active that were trying to do things with the standard Apple Watch that were just outside of its reach. Garmin is the one that is looking at that as a threat.

 

[Fthree]

The biggest problem with the Apple Watch is all the work around you have to do to get your data to be anywhere close to how garmin or coros is. They rely too much on third parties to make the Watch be a good experience for runners. Workoutdoors is a great app but third party, Athlytic another great app but third party. Stryd while that is another app for data on the garmin Watch it’s info goes through connect and makes it seem less. The one stop proprietary shop doesn’t exist for apple and where it does it’s data is presented in an awful way. IMO

 

[JuBe]

Should have included, 'we can measure power meters and other athlete tools because we support Ant+'.

What is “Ant+”?

 

[Uofmtiger]

The biggest problem with the Apple Watch is all the work around you have to do to get your data to be anywhere close to how garmin or coros is. They rely too much on third parties to make the Watch be a good experience for runners. Workoutdoors is a great app but third party, Athlytic another great app but third party. Stryd while that is another app for data on the garmin Watch it’s info goes through connect and makes it seem less. The one stop proprietary shop doesn’t exist for apple and where it does it’s data is presented in an awful way. IMO

Many will and already go through the trouble of those workarounds to get the integration with other Apple products, cellular, numerous other apps, etc. If there is some work around for the person and they are on iOS, I expect many would go with Apple. It’s when there are no current workarounds that these other watch brands excel, but that group is smaller now with the Ultra coming to market. I also expect it to continue to get smaller as third parties (apps) find it more lucrative to fill in the holes.

 

[JuBe]

I do wonder though, why apple bothers to put sleep tracking in it, when you can't wear it while sleeping because you have to charge it for a few hours. Do they think people are going to charge in the middle of the day?

This is an undervalued comment that I have been thinking about for years.

 

[Alan Wynn]

I don’t see how the Ultra moved the needle at all, from Garmin. It attacks none of their strong points.

By this I presume that you do not think that Garmin dive computers are compelling, as no Apple Watch before the Ultra was usable as a dive computer.

I think it will be a very niche product that will cannibalize a few Apple Watch sales and that’s it.

Just to get you on the record as to your definition of “very niche” about what percentage of Apple Watch sales will be made of up Apple Watch Ultras?

 

[Fthree]

Many will and already go through the trouble of those workarounds to get the integration with other Apple products, cellular, numerous other apps, etc. If there is some work around for the person and they are on iOS, I expect many would go with Apple. It’s when there are no current workarounds that these other watch brands excel, but that group is smaller now with the Ultra coming to market. I also expect it to continue to get smaller as third parties (apps) find it more lucrative to fill in the holes.

It hasn’t gotten smaller ever. I had an aw7 and tried to make it work it was awful. It was enough having to charge it everyday and also having to worry about so many apps that I ditched it and went to garmin. We’re trying to kid ourselves with the ultra (will I try it? Probably) but in reality apple just isn’t there yet with what garmin can do. They are shiny and have very bright screens and can take calls yes but I want to run and hit save and boom all there in one app to look at. All my sleep metrics, my weight, my activities etc all in one easy to use app.

 

[patrickdunn]

What is “Ant+”?

A communication protocol that sensors that cyclists and other athletes use during every activity. Power meters, HR monitors, radars, temp sensors all broadcast via Ant+. More and more also broadcast via Bluetooth but it’s just not there yet with Apple Watch to compete for many serious athletes.

 

[Alan Wynn]

Should have included, 'we can measure power meters and other athlete tools because we support Ant+'.

You mean: “We support our proprietary standard.” Most of the power meters, speed sensors, foot pods, etc. now support both ANT+ and Bluetooth LE. While BLE is a bit of a mess, it now supports many of the features that made ANT+ so useful.

 

[Alan Wynn]

Looks like Apple was able to make a great sleep tracker - far more accurate than any other wearable on the market. (Coming with WatchOS 9)

View attachment 2058376

Curious the source for this graph.

 

[Uofmtiger]

It hasn’t gotten smaller ever. I had an aw7 and tried to make it work it was awful. It was enough having to charge it everyday and also having to worry about so many apps that I ditched it and went to garmin. We’re trying to kid ourselves with the ultra (will I try it? Probably) but in reality apple just isn’t there yet with what garmin can do. They are shiny and have very bright screens and can take calls yes but I want to run and hit save and boom all there in one app to look at. All my sleep metrics, my weight, my activities etc all in one easy to use app.

you are saying you will probably try it. Many others will too and many will stick because they do things in their lives other than exercise/explore and the new watch features may make it worth using a third party app for that one area of their lives. No idea if it eventually works for you, but it will and has for many others.

I saw the watchOS got some new native features today with the workout app. Some of these may work for certain people, as well. Not saying they will work for you, but you are only speaking for yourself.

Nothing is going to move everyone. That’s just the facts. However, Garmin had no reason to make that snarky post unless they were worried. ( many of their current customers are calling Garmin’s post BS… they should at least try to make accurate statements with their snark).

 

[The1Biz]

From the WatchOS 9 page on Apple.com:

View attachment 2055942

I read the stats on Macrumors, and finally! The backtrack option for route makes me happy as well.
I'm glad I can get this on my AW 6!