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I am surprised to learn that Apple Watch Ultra has a larger battery than Garmin Fenix 6X that I use today:
  • Garmin Fenix 6X: 420mAh
  • Apple Watch Ultra: 542mAh
  • Apple Watch Series 8, 45mm: 308mAh
  • Apple Watch Series 8, 41mm: 282mAh
Now lets hope the "battery optimization" to be released later this year will do magic with those precious 542mA...
 
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If we have to draw battery life equivalence between Garmin and Apple Watch, how does the H/W and S/W spec breakdown compare (experts here care to populate the specs). Here are the items that I can think of, feel free to add more.

1. CPU - Apple Watch S7 1.8GHz 7nm processor, Garmin -?
2. Screen - Apple - LTPO OLED display, up to 1000 nits. Garmin - ?
3. OS -
4. GPS -
5. Battery Size - Apple S7 1.189Wh, Garmin - ?

Found this: "Fenix 5X has one Freescale Kinetis 61 CPU that can run at max. 120 MHz and a Maxim 32620 Cortex M4 CPU that can run max. at 96 MHz or 4 MHz in low power. These are max. supported frequencies and probably run at lower to save power. It had 32 MB Winbond DDR RAM, 16 GB Toshiba flash memory and Atmel Atwilc WiFi chip. GPS chip was MTK 3333AV."

Do not know what HW is in Fenix 7 / Epix 2, but I would bet the Garmin uses a drastically slower CPU compared to Apple, yielding power efficiency from that. OTOH, Apple can deliver a lot "smarter" watch with the higher capacity HW they use.
 
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Add solar power into the mix, runtime can be significantly extended.

Q-6
They probably looked at that and hitting the price point they wanted wasn’t possible without making it an option. They currently like to keep options limited, so we will see if that gets offered down the road. I know Garmin charges more for that feature, so we will see if Apple eventually does too. This is their first watch of this type, so I am sure they will look at data to see how they are used and go from there.

The 36 hours ( most likely a conservative estimate) is double their other watches. This is a nice start and probably good enough for the huge majority of people. They decided the safety that goes with cellular was worth the trade off. The 2000 nit screen is another trade off and so on. The low power mode that gives you 60 hours will be interesting to see in real world situations. I saw a video where a watch went from 17 days of battery to 2 when GPS was turned on. That’s the kind of thing Apple could do to squeeze out a number for the stat sheet, but they are making estimates on real world use and having all the features completely turned off is not real world use.
 
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I am surprised to learn that Apple Watch Ultra has a larger battery than Garmin Fenix 6X that I use today:
  • Garmin Fenix 6X: 420mAh
  • Apple Watch Ultra: 542mAh
  • Apple Watch Series 8, 45mm: 308mAh
  • Apple Watch Series 8, 41mm: 282mAh
Now lets hope the "battery optimization" to be released later this year will do magic with those precious 542mA...
What about the epix 2?
 
Low power mode is already available in watchOS9, nice. Should give 36 hours to the standard watches already.
 
Low power mode is already available in watchOS9, nice. Should give 36 hours to the standard watches already.
i doubt anyone wants to use that mode in normal use, but you get ~60 on the ultra ( probably more if you use it less than Apple‘s test case) if the goal is to just go as many days possible without charging. Personally, I can’t sleep very well with a watch on my wrist ( do the sleep apps measure that? 😂), so docking it each night with the phone is the routine. However, I like the battery headroom on the ultra.
 
i doubt anyone wants to use that mode in normal use, but you get ~60 on the ultra ( probably more if you use it less than Apple‘s test case) if the goal is to just go as many days possible without charging. Personally, I can’t sleep very well with a watch on my wrist ( do the sleep apps measure that? 😂), so docking it each night with the phone is the routine. However, I like the battery headroom on the ultra.

That 60h included 15h of workout. Most people work out a lot less and should expect more than 60h of battery life if other compromises in the "optimized" mode are acceptable.
 
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That 60h included 15h of workout. Most people work out a lot less and should expect more than 60h of battery life if other compromises in the "optimized" mode are acceptable.
Apple should have an ulta-low powered mode available to boost their numbers. ;)
 
I am surprised to learn that Apple Watch Ultra has a larger battery than Garmin Fenix 6X that I use today:
  • Garmin Fenix 6X: 420mAh
  • Apple Watch Ultra: 542mAh
  • Apple Watch Series 8, 45mm: 308mAh
  • Apple Watch Series 8, 41mm: 282mAh
Now lets hope the "battery optimization" to be released later this year will do magic with those precious 542mA...
The biggest problem I have in comparing any of these units is that their top line battery numbers are useless.

Take the Enduro 2 as an example:

Garmin’s site says:
34 days
110 hours of GPS
78 All Satellite Systems
68 All Satellite Systems and Multi-band
20 All Satellite Systems with Music.

(It does not seem to list an All Satellite Systems, Multi-band and music.)

For the Forerunner 945 LTE the numbers are:
14 days
GPS Mode with Music up to 12 hours
GPS Mode with LTE Live Track up to 10 hours
GPS Mode with Music and LTE Live Track up to 7 hours.

While that top line number of 14 days is cool, what I want to understand is if I actually use the GPS every day, what it really does to battery life.

My regular activities are: two hours of GPS walking/jogging every day (at a minimum – each dog gets a minimum of two miles, plus some about of time running with other dogs in the field while I pace around :) ), usually with my phone, one hour of indoor workouts every day (yoga and HIIT) one to two hours of jogging (on the track), usually without my phone and listening to music several times a week.

With my Apple Watch, I know I have to charge it every day, (usually I put it on the charger when I shower after the two dog walks), and again before I go to bed. Both times are about 15 – 20 minutes (it takes 45 min from 0-80% with fast charging and I am rarely under 15%).

What I would like to understand is how often I would have to charge either of these Garmin watches with a similar activity pattern.

I would also like to know how long does it takes to charge either of these watches from about 10%
 
While that top line number of 14 days is cool, what I want to understand is if I actually use the GPS every day, what it really does to battery life.

My regular activities are: two hours of GPS walking/jogging every day (at a minimum – each dog gets a minimum of two miles, plus some about of time running with other dogs in the field while I pace around :) ), usually with my phone, one hour of indoor workouts every day (yoga and HIIT) one to two hours of jogging (on the track), usually without my phone and listening to music several times a week.

Garmin is pretty spectacular on how low the power usage is: After using Fenix 6 for couple of years, I do trust the numbers Garmin is reporting.

That being said:
  • Garmin watches do not do anything that advanced. In good and bad, think it as a good old Nokia 3210 strapped to your wrist. Highly optimized old tech that just works.
  • IF your usage happens to be something else than Garmin has optimized for, battery life can be very different. For example, an overnight hike with Garmin InReach paired to the watch can drain the battery on Fenix 6X. If you do not pair InReach, the battery would last for several nights. Also, if you turn on Pulse Ox, it will drain battery fast.
You can expect the battery life for Epix 2 with Always-on-Display turned off or for Fenix 7 to be several days:
  • If you always listen to music while exercising, maybe you have to charge twice a week.
  • If you stream music from your phone, you should expect to charge once a week. Music UI on Garmin is so lousy that you'll probably end up doing this :)
 
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Apple should have an ulta-low powered mode available to boost their numbers. ;)

They really should have a online battery life estimator where you could estimate your usage. That would allow people to compare the battery life with the competition and discover that Apple was quite a few more features compared to the competition.
 
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When comes to watches, Apple continues to lag behind in the watch battery department. It's a joke for Apple to talk about all these "health" features yet you can't use them because have to charge your watch. Sleep app? LOL have to charge over night if want use watch next day. This is a "SMALL" step in right direction but still they can do better
 
Garmin is pretty spectacular on how low the power usage is: After using Fenix 6 for couple of years, I do trust the numbers Garmin is reporting.
I have no doubt their numbers are accurate, I just have no idea what they would mean for me.

I agree with your suggestion for an battery calculator, letting me get an estimate as to what battery life would be for my mix.

For example, I always want my always on display to be on. When I am in bright Sun, I want all 2,000 nits. I do at least 2 hours a day of GPS, 1-2 hours of indoor workout and 1-2 hours every other day of gps and music.
 
When comes to watches, Apple continues to lag behind in the watch battery department. It's a joke for Apple to talk about all these "health" features yet you can't use them because have to charge your watch. Sleep app? LOL have to charge over night if want use watch next day. This is a "SMALL" step in right direction but still they can do better
I suspect that people that need sleep tracking will find other times to charge the watch. With more battery life, they can probably get by for several days (if not much longer) by dropping it on a charger as they get ready in the morning or if they have a desk job they can drop it at lunch. I have seen this process mentioned several times with the last few models of the watch.
 
When comes to watches, Apple continues to lag behind in the watch battery department.
They, and their users, have chosen a different set of tradeoffs. They provide a more powerful processor to be a computing platform. Others have opted for less powerful, but more battery efficient options.
It's a joke for Apple to talk about all these "health" features yet you can't use them because have to charge your watch.
The only "health" feature where battery could even be argued to be an issue is sleep tracking. Everything else is included in Apple's battery time estimates.
Sleep app? LOL have to charge over night if want use watch next day.
It take 45 minutes to charge from 0% to 80%. It takes even less time to go from 15% to 80%. This means for anyone concerned about sleep tracking, 15 - 20 minutes before bed and another 15-20 minutes while showering in the morning and one should be fine.
This is a "SMALL" step in right direction but still they can do better
What tradeoff would you like them to make? A worse, less bright display? A less powerful processor? Less memory? A thicker heavier watch? Getting rid of LTE (on the Ultra)?

I would not be shocked to have something closer to the motion co-processor to handle some of these functions with less power, and they will gain some power when they become the first to use TSMC's 3nm process, but I think that even if their low power mode got to 172 hours, I think their top line advertising would be: 100 hour battery life.
 
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Love the look and new features of the AW Ultra, especially the dive computer capabilities but without ANT+ connection it's still not quite there for me as I need ANT+ capabilities to connect to my existing power meters, head units and turbo trainers - I guess bluetooth will work for some of these but bluetooth has never been as reliable as ANT+ for me, especially when it comes to controlling turbo trainers.

I doubt that Apple will ever add ANT+ though so I'll stick with Garmin for now.

Hopefully the AW Ultra will prompt Garmin to improve some of the smart capabilities in their watches. if not and Apple catch-up / overtake Garmin with the sports capabilities of the AW then that will be the time to change.

I currently use my Garmin Fenix 6 daily for swimming, cycling (road, MTB, CX and gravel), running, triathlon, quadrathlon, hiking, windsurfing, kite-surfing, surfing, surf ski, kayking, SUP, weights, circuits, yoga and of course all of the health features such as step tracking, HRV, sleep metrics etc. Main thing I miss from the AW is the ECG capabilities.

Al.
 
Sure and my corded phone did not need any power. But it was stuck to a cord. If I want communication while mobile then power is needed!
The corded phone literally was corded because it needed power. How about you think that statement again? :)
 
Main thing I miss from the AW is the ECG capabilities.
I tried this too but I found it too involving and fussy (same on Fitbit). I personally wouldn't bother. Measurements done automatically by the watch reasonably frequently and in the background are best in my opinion because they're sure to happen.

Garmin has recently added HRV (perhaps on your Fenix 6 too?), no doubt more are coming. I'm curious about the HRV results, it wants 3 weeks of data so not quite there yet.
 
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They, and their users, have chosen a different set of tradeoffs. They provide a more powerful processor to be a computing platform. Others have opted for less powerful, but more battery efficient options.

The only "health" feature where battery could even be argued to be an issue is sleep tracking. Everything else is included in Apple's battery time estimates.

It take 45 minutes to charge from 0% to 80%. It takes even less time to go from 15% to 80%. This means for anyone concerned about sleep tracking, 15 - 20 minutes before bed and another 15-20 minutes while showering in the morning and one should be fine.

What tradeoff would you like them to make? A worse, less bright display? A less powerful processor? Less memory? A thicker heavier watch? Getting rid of LTE (on the Ultra)?

I would not be shocked to have something closer to the motion co-processor to handle some of these functions with less power, and they will gain some power when they become the first to use TSMC's 3nm process, but I think that even if their low power mode got to 172 hours, I think their top line advertising would be: 100 hour battery life.
The point of a longer battery life is to be away from a power socket for as long as possible. Going on a multi-day hike with camping is among those uses (among many others). Users like me would gladly trade off a bit of the pixel density to quadruple the battery life.

Apple Watches are made for city people who prefer to jog for 20min around the block and then gladly return home. Always tethered to the pocket socket, even if it’s for 10min. No harm in that but let’s not pretend that Apple Watches will ever be true activity trackers. They are computers with incidental activity tracking because of their time limited measuring potential.
 
I tried this too but I found it too involving and fussy (same on Fitbit). I personally wouldn't bother. Measurements done automatically by the watch reasonably frequently and in the background are best in my opinion because they're sure to happen.

Garmin has recently added HRV (perhaps on your Fenix 6 too?), no doubt more are coming. I'm curious about the HRV results, it wants 3 weeks of data so not quite there yet.
Yep, HRV is on my Fenix 6 (Beta software maybe). I've got it on mine and quite like it so far.

I use a standalone Frontier X for ECG measurements whilst exercising at the moment but would quite like 'always on' automatic ECG on my watch to track changes throughout the days / weeks.

Al.
 
Yep, HRV is on my Fenix 6 (Beta software maybe). I've got it on mine and quite like it so far.

I use a standalone Frontier X for ECG measurements whilst exercising at the moment but would quite like 'always on' automatic ECG on my watch to track changes throughout the days / weeks.

Al.
That pretty cool. I wasn't aware of this product. How does it work, do you get data directly in Garmin Connect or does it have its own app? Does it need to always be in range of the watch or phone, or can it bulk upload later? Sorry for the many questions and thank you for any answers.
 
That pretty cool. I wasn't aware of this product. How does it work, do you get data directly in Garmin Connect or does it have its own app? Does it need to always be in range of the watch or phone, or can it bulk upload later? Sorry for the many questions and thank you for any answers.
It has it's own app (and browser based dashboard too). It stores data on the device itself and then uploads it to the app after the fact - although you can use the app for live data visualisation as well.

It's more accurate than a wrist based ECG but obviously is still only single lead so not as accurate as a proper 12-lead ECG for certain aspects of heart health.

Having had a very unexpected heart attack following my first Covid vaccine I got te Frontier-X to give me some reassurance that I wasn't over-doing things during my recovery from the heart attack once I was able to exercise again. I don't now wear it all the time but do still tend to wear it on most runnning and cycling sessions. I did wear it in the pool and whilst windsurfing etc. to start with but tend not to now.

Al.
 
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Users like me would gladly trade off a bit of the pixel density to quadruple the battery life.
Users like you are a minority and should stick to the Garmin if that offers a better solution. However, i do multi-day stuff like bikepacking, i bike 15 hours a week, i live IN the mountains and hike quite a bit, i do ski touring and i use the watch and the phone for all those activities. For bike packing i just take a power bank with me. I would have to do the same thing with the Garmin depending what i track. I see the Garmin daily with people and where i live i think the Garmin is the „active lifestyle“ device, i hardly see those people on any of the close summits at all 😂

So really, what‘s the point in coming here to tell a bunch of Apple fans, that the Garmin is the better device 😂
 
The market has spoken on this already. They sell the most and have the most revenue.
I wasn’t questioning Apple Watch s success and popularity.
It’s not like the “market” had a choice between square and round Apple watches.
again look at non smart watches,90+% are round not square.
 
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