Geekbench Results Visualize Possible Link Between iPhone Slowdowns and Degraded Batteries

[PickUrPoison]

Let me tell you, I experienced most of the scenarios people mentioned: camera lag, keyboard input lag, phone calls not showing up on iPhone but my Apple Watch rings, blah blah, it was misery.
I have since replaced my battery and performance is back to normal.
The throttled CPU is the ONE AND ONLY reason causing all the lag.
<snip>

And there is the fatal flaw in your thinking. It’s a common error to make. Correlation does NOT prove causation.

For all you know, just merely disconnecting the iPhone completely from power caused something in the hardware (or software) to reset, which fixed all your lag issues.

1) For all you know, just disconnecting and re-connecting the same old battery—never replacing it with a new one at all—would have fixed your lag issues.

2) If CPU downclocking was your problem, why is it that no one who has a well functioning iphone 6S at 1848Mhz has any of your lag problems when their phone downclocks to 600MHz?

If you’re right that downclocking is the “one and only reason causing the lag”, then everyone whose phone downclocks to 600 should see those lag issues. But we don’t. Not one lag issue, not any, not at all. No lag issues at 600MHz. How do you explain that?

 

[Abazigal]

Replied to you just now.
And it's not just me that get the normal performance and usability after replacing the degraded battery.
The first Reddit post said it loud and clear.
The geekbench blogpost also showed large scale of performance drop.
So it's not just random variation.
Did you read these posts?

I did, and responses from the reddit post are mixed. Quite a number reported that replacing their batteries resulted in a noticeable improvement in performance, while some saw little or no benefit at all. Also, this issue seems largely confined to the 6 and 6s. The 5s and 7 didn't really seem affected at all.

So while swapping in a fresh battery can solve the problem, it doesn't seem uniform across the board. Which brings me back to my earlier point. If snapchat was taking 10-15 seconds to load, I believe it's an issue with the phone that goes beyond mere throttling. Somehow, replacing the battery fixes this issue, but it could well be solving an entirely different issue altogether, and not necessarily the throttling problem.

The more we have this discussion, the more I am starting to suspect that we are looking at two separate issues here. As the battery degrades over time, its maximum voltage drops, and this is possibly somehow causing the rest of the phone to malfunction in unpredictable ways (eg: unresponsive touchscreen, laggy keyboard etc). That's why replacing the battery seems to fix this problem.

Tl;DR - iOS has code that can allow for the throttling of your phone, but that's likely not what is causing your phone to run so slowly. That's more to do with the battery failing and the lower voltage wrecking havoc with the other components. And this is not something which Apple can fix simply by throttling your phone. The purpose of throttling is likely just to help extend the life of your battery and maybe slow down the rate of degradation.

In the very least, what we can take away from all this is that if you are experiencing poor performance on your phone, the first thing you can do is get your battery replaced, then observe and take it from there. Cheaper than getting a new phone at any rate.

 

[Altis]

Hey there, just so you know all know.... I had posted previously about my phone being slow... reporting 600-839 Mhz (iPhone 6 should be 1400)... and I ordered a new battery and just installed. CPU reported 1400 Mhz immediately. Reran Geekbench and pulled numbers slightly higher than the average numbers reported by Geekbench, and nearly double what they were.

The change was immediate, and I'd had no previous variations in this range... changing the battery was an immediate improvement.

That's quite interesting.

The question is: Do you notice it feeling faster now? UI response, etc.

 

[MH01]

People complain that Apple slows things down to get people to buy new devices, but in every case of slowdowns that I'm aware of, or case where support for older devices is dropped, there have been legitimate engineering reasons.

Now a bunch of people are complaining about this CPU throttling but how else do you expect Apple to fix unexpected shutdowns due to high CPU power demands? Their only option was to reduce CPU power, i.e., throttle. (They also did a battery recall BTW, but for people who didn't feel like going in to get a free new battery, there's this software fix.)

Same with dropping iOS support for older iPhones, every time they've dropped support it's been linked to an engineering reason. Lack of 64-bit support, lack of various GPU abilities (shaders, texture resolutions, etc.) that were necessary for graphical effects in the UI, etc.

So to my knowledge, Apple has never made a device slower or dropped support for a device for literally no reason other than that they want their customer base to buy new devices. If you have evidence otherwise I'd be interested to hear it.

Wait.... please explain the legitimate engineering reasons , you can't just make a blanket statement like that .

I'll give you an actual example , iPhone 4 and 4S users and FaceTime . Please explain the legitimate engineering reason. It's moves like his that Apple takes action on purpose to push users to new versions of iOS / devices .

 

[Abazigal]

I still think there was a certain failure of communication regarding this issue.

I'll give you an actual example , iPhone 4 and 4S users and FaceTime . Please explain the legitimate engineering reason. It's moves like his that Apple takes action on purpose to push users to new versions of iOS / devices .

What about the iPhone 4/4s and FaceTime? You will have to describe the issue to me, because I have no idea what you are referring to.

After a little bit of quick googling, are you by chance referring to this article?

http://www.firstpost.com/tech/news-...s-users-to-save-up-on-data-costs-3697171.html

And I have two examples earlier for iOS 4 and iOS 7. Basically, the GPU couldn't keep up with the Retina display and the new design elements in iOS 7, causing the device to slow down. Or when iOS devices moved to 64-bit architecture but still had to support 32-bit apps. Or maybe just the latest OS simply not being all that optimised for older devices.

 

[nerdAFK]

I did, and responses from the reddit post are mixed. Quite a number reported that replacing their batteries resulted in a noticeable improvement in performance, while some saw little or no benefit at all. Also, this issue seems largely confined to the 6 and 6s. The 5s and 7 didn't really seem affected at all.

So while swapping in a fresh battery can solve the problem, it doesn't seem uniform across the board. Which brings me back to my earlier point. If snapchat was taking 10-15 seconds to load, I believe it's an issue with the phone that goes beyond mere throttling. Somehow, replacing the battery fixes this issue, but it could well be solving an entirely different issue altogether, and not necessarily the throttling problem.

The more we have this discussion, the more I am starting to suspect that we are looking at two separate issues here. As the battery degrades over time, its maximum voltage drops, and this is possibly somehow causing the rest of the phone to malfunction in unpredictable ways (eg: unresponsive touchscreen, laggy keyboard etc). That's why replacing the battery seems to fix this problem.

Tl;DR - iOS has code that can allow for the throttling of your phone, but that's likely not what is causing your phone to run so slowly. That's more to do with the battery failing and the lower voltage wrecking havoc with the other components. And this is not something which Apple can fix simply by throttling your phone. The purpose of throttling is likely just to help extend the life of your battery and maybe slow down the rate of degradation.

In the very least, what we can take away from all this is that if you are experiencing poor performance on your phone, the first thing you can do is get your battery replaced, then observe and take it from there. Cheaper than getting a new phone at any rate.

Man all I can say you are over thinking it.
[doublepost=1513756752][/doublepost]

And there is the fatal flaw in your thinking. It’s a common error to make. Correlation does NOT prove causation.

For all you know, just merely disconnecting the iPhone completely from power caused something in the hardware (or software) to reset, which fixed all your lag issues.

1) For all you know, just disconnecting and re-connecting the same old battery—never replacing it with a new one at all—would have fixed your lag issues.

2) If CPU downclocking was your problem, why is it that no one who has a well functioning iphone 6S at 1848Mhz has any of your lag problems when their phone downclocks to 600MHz?

If you’re right that downclocking is the “one and only reason causing the lag”, then everyone whose phone downclocks to 600 should see those lag issues. But we don’t. Not one lag issue, not any, not at all. No lag issues at 600MHz. How do you explain that?

Don't think anybody could understand what you are talking about.
As for extreme lag, because mine is a 6 Plus, not a 6s Plus or 6s.

 

[HeadphoneAddict]

Gotcha. Makes sense. I misread and thought it was going to the sister.

Yeah, my son's old 6 went to me, then it went to his sister when she broke hers, and I got her broken 6 to fix up.

His iPhone 6 had the bad battery draining 1% per 3 minutes and was slow, and that was fixed with a new battery after he already bought a 7+ when Apple refused him a new battery. Then I kept his 6 for my second line after the battery (sold my 6+ and 6s+ when I got my 7+ and his 6). Then that good iPhone 6 went to his sister when she broke hers and it's still on 10.3.3 and doing well.

I fixed my daughter's after she got his and used it for my 2nd line, and it worked great until iOS 11 killed it. Then I had to replace it with the X. Both iPhone 6 have new 100% batteries, and the one on 10.3.3 with my daughter is great and the one on 11.2.1 is a snail.

 

[lwells1441]

Both iPhone 6 have new 100% batteries, and the one on 10.3.3 with my daughter is great and the one on 11.2.1 is a snail.

I really wonder if what you describe as a 'snail' is what I am describing as 'just fine' on my iphone 6.

I would imagine that if I also had a iphone 7, I may describe my 6 as a snail. However, my 6 with iOS 11.2.1 doesn't feel any slower than I remember it being in iOS10.

Can you compare GB4 scores on your two iphone 6's?

 

[MH01]

What about the iPhone 4/4s and FaceTime? You will have to describe the issue to me, because I have no idea what you are referring to.

After a little bit of quick googling, are you by chance referring to this article?

http://www.firstpost.com/tech/news-...s-users-to-save-up-on-data-costs-3697171.html

And I have two examples earlier for iOS 4 and iOS 7. Basically, the GPU couldn't keep up with the Retina display and the new design elements in iOS 7, causing the device to slow down. Or when iOS devices moved to 64-bit architecture but still had to support 32-bit apps. Or maybe just the latest OS simply not being all that optimised for older devices.

Let's focus on the iPhone 4 and 4S and FaceTime , the link you have is correct .

please explain the legitimate engineering decision .

 

[Nixir]

The problem is that some of the batteries are behaving badly before the 80% wear point based on capacity alone. Apple won't replace those phones without an escalated argument when they're throttling....

This point has been raised several times in this thread, by myself and many others. It seems the Apple faithfuls will simply suspend their rational thought and defend Apple to no end. I can only hope more current and potential new users become aware of this policy and and use it to guide their future phone purchasing decisions, maybe Tim will correct course when their bottom line is finally affected.

As to who else is doing it, I can't speak for all android phones, but Google (stock Android) certainly doesn't have this "feature". The oldest Android phone I develop and test for is a 4+ years old Nexus 5, the battery has about 90min screen on time, but all operations are smooth as silk, constant 60FPS everywhere, a feat iOS11 has yet to achieve. But that's topic of discussion for another day.

Edit: there is a clear distinction between newer/more complex software that taxes your CPU and causing your phone to run slower - i.e. I can write a piece of code right now that will make even your 4-core i7 crawl; and hardware throttling - i.e. tweaking firmware so your 4-core i7 can only use a single core. It seems some people have mixed up the two scenarios.

 

[Abazigal]

Let's focus on the iPhone 4 and 4S and FaceTime , the link you have is correct .

please explain the legitimate engineering decision .

I thought the article made it pretty clear.

Apple used Akamai to avoid having to pay patent royalties to Virtnex, but that entailed paying $70 million a month to Akamai (makes me wonder just how much Virtnex was asking if Apple considered them the lesser of two evils, or if that many people were actually FaceTime). Apple then finally found a working solution that didn't involve having to pipe all that live video through Akamai's servers, which would no doubt save them a ton of cash. From there, it was a simple matter of pushing the update to everyone via iOS 7.

And then we come to the issue of people refusing to upgrade (not unjustified, because iOS 7 make the iPhone 4 pretty much useless and the 4s barely held on), but the reality is that them continuing to use FaceTime while on iOS 6 would have cost Apple money for a service which isn't generating Apple any revenue to begin with.

I suppose one can argue that Apple could and should have back ported iOS 7 FaceTime to iOS 6 (ironically, the 4th gen iPod touch did in fact get a FaceTime update allowing it to still run on iOS 6). There is also that problem of Apple deciding to knowingly deactivate Facetime for a significant portion of users and then claiming falsely that a bug was responsible rather than own the issue and explain the decision at that time. I find this personally inexcusable, but when you look back at it all, Apple simply wanted to migrate everyone over to the new FaceTime software and to iOS 7; they just went about it the wrong way.

So it's both a matter of engineering and money. I don't think it's fair to expect a connected service on a device to keep running forever (to use an extreme, do I have a case against Apple if in the year 2030, I boot up my iPhone 4s and find that FaceTime no longer works because the underlying tech has already moved on?). This is insane, and would put a massive burden on any company that provides any electronic service. Infinite backwards compatibility is an unreasonable demand, and taxes your engineering resources. There comes a time when you have to make a clean break for this sort of thing, and Apple decided that iOS 7 was that reboot the iPhone needed.

So I personally think the lawsuit is complete rubbish. No software company in the world can or should be expected to maintain old versions of software on old hardware in perpetuity, and Apple did give them a choice - to update to iOS 7. Sure, it wasn't the best option, but it was something.

This does make me wonder - so did Apple finally find a way to make FaceTime peer-to-peer like they claimed back in 2010? Something to read up on in a while, but yeah, that's that.

 

[tipoo]

This whole thing rubbed me the wrong way. A lot of outlets never picked up on that the software band-aid for the 6S shutdowns just throttled back the SoC to not be as bursty, reducing performance quite a bit (I think I more than doubled time in Octane).

They did have a free swap program, but originally at least, not for the 6S Plus or 6, only the 6S, even though they all had similar issues.

And besides that, if the software could tell you had a bad batch battery and throttle down the SoC for it, instead of running silently in the background why could it not send a notification to get a swap, in the meantime while it dialed back the performance? If they can give us all U2 albums...

They may be swapping batteries right now, but most users will just never figure out they clamped down the SoC to prevent bad battery's shutting down. A notification would do that, but they dodged the majority of the bill. Same as they dodged most of the bill on the 2011 solder flaws, the program only started after most people moved on.

Now that I think about it I made this thread on it back then, saw a few scattered posts about it but didn't pick up critical mass until that reddit post recently.

https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/6s-benchmark-performance-fell-off-at-some-point.2039834/

I wonder how much Apple saved patching the 6S shutdowns in software rather than also settind a user notification to come in for a swap to fix the performance under the extended program. Not like their war chest is lacking to do that.

 

[I7guy]

This whole thing rubbed me the wrong way. A lot of outlets never picked up on that the software band-aid for the 6S shutdowns just throttled back the SoC to not be as bursty, reducing performance quite a bit (I think I more than doubled time in Octane).

They did have a free swap program, but originally at least, not for the 6S Plus or 6, only the 6S, even though they all had similar issues.

And besides that, if the software could tell you had a bad batch battery and throttle down the SoC for it, instead of running silently in the background why could it not send a notification to get a swap, in the meantime while it dialed back the performance? If they can give us all U2 albums...

They may be swapping batteries right now, but most users will just never figure out they clamped down the SoC to prevent bad battery's shutting down. A notification would do that, but they dodged the majority of the bill. Same as they dodged most of the bill on the 2011 solder flaws, the program only started after most people moved on.

Now that I think about it I made this thread on it back then, saw a few scattered posts about it but didn't pick up critical mass until that reddit post recently.

https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/6s-benchmark-performance-fell-off-at-some-point.2039834/

I wonder how much Apple saved patching the 6S shutdowns in software rather than also settind a user notification to come in for a swap to fix the performance under the extended program. Not like their war chest is lacking to do that.

My 6s battery was replaced with the quality program as it exhibited the rapid power drain.

Either they throttled my 6s and I didn't know it, or my 6s wasn't throttled, for whatever reason.

At any rate I'm guessing apple is saving a bundle by applying advance power management techniques instead of having a phone shutdown. I could care less if the phone "is slower/feels slower", but if the battery is bad and was a design issue to begin with, than just replace the battery and let's move on.

 

[Applejuiced]

I wonder how much Apple saved patching the 6S shutdowns in software rather than also settind a user notification to come in for a swap to fix the performance under the extended program. Not like their war chest is lacking to do that.

My guess is they saved many millions of dollars by sweeping it under the rug instead of doing the right thing and replacing millions of i6 and 6S batteries that were defective.
They put out this "feature" that yielded them even more millions by pushing many people to buy a new iPhone.
Win win for Apple, lose lose for the consumer.
Thank you.

 

[MH01]

I thought the article made it pretty clear.

Apple used Akamai to avoid having to pay patent royalties to Virtnex, but that entailed paying $70 million a month to Akamai (makes me wonder just how much Virtnex was asking if Apple considered them the lesser of two evils, or if that many people were actually FaceTime). Apple then finally found a working solution that didn't involve having to pipe all that live video through Akamai's servers, which would no doubt save them a ton of cash. From there, it was a simple matter of pushing the update to everyone via iOS 7.

And then we come to the issue of people refusing to upgrade (not unjustified, because iOS 7 make the iPhone 4 pretty much useless and the 4s barely held on), but the reality is that them continuing to use FaceTime while on iOS 6 would have cost Apple money for a service which isn't generating Apple any revenue to begin with.

I suppose one can argue that Apple could and should have back ported iOS 7 FaceTime to iOS 6 (ironically, the 4th gen iPod touch did in fact get a FaceTime update allowing it to still run on iOS 6). There is also that problem of Apple deciding to knowingly deactivate Facetime for a significant portion of users and then claiming falsely that a bug was responsible rather than own the issue and explain the decision at that time. I find this personally inexcusable, but when you look back at it all, Apple simply wanted to migrate everyone over to the new FaceTime software and to iOS 7; they just went about it the wrong way.

So it's both a matter of engineering and money. I don't think it's fair to expect a connected service on a device to keep running forever (to use an extreme, do I have a case against Apple if in the year 2030, I boot up my iPhone 4s and find that FaceTime no longer works because the underlying tech has already moved on?). This is insane, and would put a massive burden on any company that provides any electronic service. Infinite backwards compatibility is an unreasonable demand, and taxes your engineering resources. There comes a time when you have to make a clean break for this sort of thing, and Apple decided that iOS 7 was that reboot the iPhone needed.

So I personally think the lawsuit is complete rubbish. No software company in the world can or should be expected to maintain old versions of software on old hardware in perpetuity, and Apple did give them a choice - to update to iOS 7. Sure, it wasn't the best option, but it was something.

This does make me wonder - so did Apple finally find a way to make FaceTime peer-to-peer like they claimed back in 2010? Something to read up on in a while, but yeah, that's that.

interesting how you justified it. The problem is, apple could turn off functionality in future iOS updates, and you would be okay with it. Not all consumers feel that way, some ware more worried about their consumer rights than apple profits.

Turning off a service, to push users to an iOS version that cripples their units, is not okay.

 

[JM]

My 6S is one of these affected. Apple's diagnostic reported the battery had 93% capacity and would not replace it, even if I paid. The genius's suggestion was that I trade it in.

That's such bull they wouldn't replace. I'd lay on the begging and niceness if they tried telling me that.

As long you're nice and patient, the Apple Store folks I've interacted with have been willing to help me out.

Can't speak for them all of course...
[doublepost=1513786053][/doublepost]

Bam, that what they were trying to tell me too.
"Well you got enough use out of it, maybe its time to upgrade".
Totally unacceptable, instead of fixing the issue they're trying to sell me a brand new one.
And people are ok with all this...

a lot of people I'm sure are ok with this. Never underestimate people's willingness to spend money on things they love.

 

[WannaGoMac]

Meanwhile silence from Apple despite some major news outlets picking it up and making inquires to them...

 

[JM]

Evidence and proof are not the same thing.

I enjoy most of your posts when I realize you're a person of logic, and not personal attacks.

So, serious question: how would "proof" be defined to you? (Not just on the topic at hand)

*edit: Did you block me? Lol, you're funny.

**Edit: no, no blocking. Oops

 

[I7guy]

Meanwhile silence from Apple despite some major news outlets picking it up and making inquires to them...

Apple doesn’t respond to some things. The only meaningful response I would expect from them is to increase the scope of their quality program.

 

[JM]

Hey there, just so you know all know.... I had posted previously about my phone being slow... reporting 600-839 Mhz (iPhone 6 should be 1400)... and I ordered a new battery and just installed. CPU reported 1400 Mhz immediately. Reran Geekbench and pulled numbers slightly higher than the average numbers reported by Geekbench, and nearly double what they were.

The change was immediate, and I'd had no previous variations in this range... changing the battery was an immediate improvement.

Do apps open quicker now?

 

[Act3]

Meanwhile silence from Apple despite some major news outlets picking it up and making inquires to them...

Or some major news outlets focus on more important Apple matters. /s

http://money.cnn.com/2017/12/20/technology/pokemon-go-apple-update/index.html

 

[PickUrPoison]

Man all I can say you are over thinking it.
[doublepost=1513756752][/doublepost]

Don't think anybody could understand what you are talking about.
As for extreme lag, because mine is a 6 Plus, not a 6s Plus or 6s.

It’s ok if you don’t understand, others do. Suffice it to say you jumped to a conclusion with insufficient evidence, based on a flawed experiment.

And 6 vs 6S: if one model exhibits extreme lag and one doesn’t, but both have CPU downclocking, that suggests the problem is not the CPU speed at all. Because the CPUs aren’t all that different.

Rather, I would start to suspect that maybe a shortage of RAM in the 6 is the underlying cause. If clock speed were the issue, Snapchat opening in 20 seconds on an iPhone 6 might take 15 seconds on a 6S. But instead it’s less than a second.

 

[Vanilla35]

Evidence and proof are not the same thing.

It will never be completed confirmed, but it's proof enough for anyone with a brain.

 

[6803390]

Interesting. Can you please provide specific details about how Apple copies other competitors ? Again, please be specific in your reply exactly what you're referring to how Apple copies other competitors and claims innovation.

Well...

Phablets came to Apple last.

AMOLED is now on the iPhone, years later.

Minimal bezel? Just add a notch! It's still not a new concept all together.

Antenna lines on the iPhone 6?
HTC already had those prior.

I'm just going off the top of my head.

I think all companies copy each other. It's just funny when Apple calls removing something innovation, like yeah... They can now sell you something else!

Like having to buy extra cables to connect your iPhone to your Mac? Who thought that was a good idea?

I don't hate Apple but they aren't immune to trends or making decisions that financially benefit them greatly.

Edit:

Tim Cook:


Said during his commencement speech at George Washington University in 2015

"Some people see innovation as change, but we have never really seen it like that. It’s making things better."

Better for who exactly?

Septembersrain, brilliant response lol and agree with it. Funny this particular individual is asking for specifics but does not have an opinion or just ignoring the topic regarding Geekbench Results Visualize Possible Link Between iPhone Slowdowns and Degraded Batteries.

I always felt that the comparison between last years vs current model running latest os was not fair, as it always showed the new model running smooth, which is misleading.

 

[Superposisjon]

Apple doesn’t respond to some things. The only meaningful response I would expect from them is to increase the scope of their quality program.

Apple addresses why people are saying their iPhones with older batteries are running ‘slower’

https://techcrunch.com/2017/12/20/a...-older-batteries-are-running-slower/?ncid=rss