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blakespot

Administrator
Original poster
Jun 4, 2000
1,360
130
Alexandria, VA
As folks are now aware, the mid and top-end models come with the new GeForce 4MX installed standard. Looking at the performance graph on one of the product pages dealing with the new Macs, it seemed to me that something was a bit fishy (why a GeForce 2MX in that DP 800?). I'd actually expressed my hunch to a few folks that the GeForce 4MX was not a much (any?) higher performing card than the GeForce 3. These feelings were just confirmed with a posting on xlr8yourmac, part of which is quoted below:


"Mike, just a note on your recent news about the new Macs. ..
The new machines are using the NV17 chip. This is also known as the GeForce3MX - which was long delayed. Looks like they have chosen to rebadge the chip to bridge the gap between the older chips already out there and the new line they're still working on. [Nvidia is set to announce Geforce4MX and non-MX cards in early Feb. There was a page linked in last week's other net news that had leaked specs on the GF4 line.-Mike]
The performance charts on Apple's site show the old 2mx Quake3 score on a DUAL-800 and the ATI Radeon 7500 on a SINGLE-800. Do not let the close frame rates fool you. Put the 7500 into the same systems as the new NV17 for a fair comparison. You'll find that for a savings of $100 built-to-order you'll end up with higher frame rates as well. Plus truly seamless dual-monitor support. "


Woth considering when spec'ing out a new tower at the Apple Store on-line.
 

mcbane

macrumors member
Jan 4, 2002
48
0
yes, should I go with the ATI card or the gf4MX? I already placed an order and I would like to know asap so I can change it or whatever. dang, and I really liked the sound of that geforce 4 :(
 

mcbane

macrumors member
Jan 4, 2002
48
0
I just noticed that xlr8yourmac.com posted a reply from nvidia to that post:

" Today, Apple introduced a new Macintosh computer featuring NVIDIA's next generation, mainstream GPU - GeForce4 MX. GeForce4 MX is 3 to 5 times faster than our previous generation mainstream processor, the GeForce2 MX. In general we do not comment on or compare our products' performance to the competition. Regarding benchmarks that Apple has posted on their website you should contact Apple.
NVIDIA will be making a formal announcement in regards to our family of next-generation GPUs in Feburary - including high-end products. "

I guess this doesn't totally answer the question, but it does mean that the GF4mx is better then the gf2mx, hehe. hrmm
 

mcbane

macrumors member
Jan 4, 2002
48
0
wtf, that is pretty lame of apple to sell the gf4 name for 100 bucks more even though it is a worse card. I am thinking of changing to the radeon 7500 and ripping it out and putting in an 8500. this is so dumb.
 

blakespot

Administrator
Original poster
Jun 4, 2000
1,360
130
Alexandria, VA
GeForce 4MX is SLOWER than GeForce 3

As stated in the above BareFeats link (quote from site):

As most of you know, today Apple "speed bumped" the Power Mac
with the top model being a Dual 1GHz ($2970 stripped). The top models do
include a GeForce4 MX as earlier rumors indicated. It falls somewhere
between the GeForce2 MX and the GeForce3 in terms of performance. Of
course, I'll be running tests with all three cards to verify this. Apple seems to
offer the Radeon 7500 as a low end option but that seems odd when you look at
the specs. (See chart above.)


So there you have it.



blakespot
 

HorseHead

macrumors newbie
Jan 28, 2002
7
0
What do you guys think

I'm about to buy a new Tower (after waiting and waiting and waiting for the speed bump) but I have a problem. First of all i'm seeing that the raedon 7500 is faster than the G4MX which seems odd. Second, I don't ever see me using a DVD-R drive in the near future (by the time i'd actually use one to make my own cd's i'm assuming I can buy an external one for $150) So the question is... Doesn't the 800mhz for 1599 seem like the best deal??? Paying and extra 700 for a DVD drive (which i'd never use to watch DVD on my computer and I wonder who actually does this) and a graphics processor that's slower than the top models doesn't seem smart. Plus i'm assuming that in real word tasks I wouldn't see a huge difference from an 800-933 mhz processor. Any thoughts???
 

Rocketman

macrumors 603
Originally posted by mcbane
yes, should I go with the ATI card or the gf4MX? I already placed an order and I would like to know asap so I can change it or whatever. dang, and I really liked the sound of that geforce 4 :(

I read this as GF3MX (in Macs but called 4)
GF4 not in Macs and not even done.
GF4MX planned

Radeon better than GF3MX (for Quake)

Sounds like the cheap low end G4 is looking better all the time for home use.

Apple is as usual on the bleeding edge. So much so the chips they probably contracted for never got done so the had to settle for what they could get. In the Mac world its kinda like buying a Mac II fx or a IIvx and being abandoned technologically.

It seems to me the drivers themselves are more of an issue in graphics cards and applications, kind of like whether applications are compiled to use altivec and MP.

Rocketman.

:eek:
 

mcbane

macrumors member
Jan 4, 2002
48
0
Is it just me, or can anybody find drivers on nvidia's site for any of their mac cards?
 

blakespot

Administrator
Original poster
Jun 4, 2000
1,360
130
Alexandria, VA
Originally posted by mcbane
Is it just me, or can anybody find drivers on nvidia's site for any of their mac cards?

The drivers are built into MacOS. Update your OS to get the drivers.


blakespot
 

Falleron

macrumors 68000
Nov 22, 2001
1,609
0
UK
Re: DOES ANYONE HAVE A REPLY?

Originally posted by HorseHead
Does anyone have a reply to my post above??? Anyone?
I'm in the same boat as you. I am going to go for the ati card. However, the 800Mhz version does not have the level 3 cache that the 933Mhz does, I dont know what the difference in speed is!
 

Beej

macrumors 68020
Jan 6, 2002
2,139
0
For everyone scratching their heads about what to buy; I'd wait until barefeats.com has some benchmarks. That shouldn't be too long, it's usually pretty fast.

I know it's hard to wait, but hey, what's a week or so compared to being stuck with the wrong machine for the next few years?
 

Steve M

macrumors newbie
Jan 28, 2002
22
0
Not a big deal

Buy whichever config you want, and choose the Radeon 7500. Applications that take advantage of features the GeForce4MX does better (namely pixel shaders) are few and far between right now, and eventually Apple will offer the full-fledged GeForce4 or later card so you can upgrade to that.

In the mean time, save $100 and opt for the Radeon 7500.
 
U

Unregistered

Guest
Re: What do you guys think

Originally posted by HorseHead
I'm about to buy a new Tower (after waiting and waiting and waiting for the speed bump) but I have a problem. First of all i'm seeing that the raedon 7500 is faster than the G4MX which seems odd. Second, I don't ever see me using a DVD-R drive in the near future (by the time i'd actually use one to make my own cd's i'm assuming I can buy an external one for $150) So the question is... Doesn't the 800mhz for 1599 seem like the best deal??? Paying and extra 700 for a DVD drive (which i'd never use to watch DVD on my computer and I wonder who actually does this) and a graphics processor that's slower than the top models doesn't seem smart. Plus i'm assuming that in real word tasks I wouldn't see a huge difference from an 800-933 mhz processor. Any thoughts???

If money's an issue to you and you don't want the DVD-R right now, get the 800MHz model. It's plenty fast and should be a tiny bit faster than the iMac G4/800. You still get the better video options than the iMac also.

You'll probably be able to tell the difference between the 800 and 933 because of the extra 133MHz and, more importantly, the 2MB L3 cache, BUT only if they're sitting side by side on your desk! Otherwise, the difference will be negligible assuming you're upgrading from a 450-500MHz G4 or something like that (even less noticeable if you're coming from a 350MHz G3).

Do the speed difference and the upgraded specs (including DVD-R) justify the extra $700? I guess, but really only if you wanna do DVD-R right now. You can always buy an internal Pioneer DVD-R drive later on and by then, they'll be down to $250. And I'd recommend an internal Pioneer DVD-R drive because Apple seems unwilling to support external DVD-R drives in iDVD.

(If you're looking at using VirtualPC extensively on this machine, I'd recommend getting the 933MHz model for the L3 cache. The general rule of thumb goes that cache SIZE makes a big difference in emulation performance.)

Personally, I get a 20% discount on hardware for being an ADC member so I'll definitely be getting the Dual 1-GHz! ($2399!) Can't wait!
 
U

Unregistered

Guest
Re: Re: What do you guys think

BTW, I forgot to add, if you want an even better deal, go find a new 733 or even 867 MHz model. You should be able to find them for cheaper than the 800 or 933 models respectively.

I believe the 867 goes for $1999 at Macmall right now WITH SuperDrive.

The 733 Model with CD-RW goes for $1294! Cheap stuff.

Check the specs, you do lose the L3 cache I believe and you get an older video card, but who cares at those prices? I only wish I got 20% off those prices too, but alas, it's only off prices at the Apple Store and they only gimme the discount on new models and charge tax on top of that! :-(
 
U

Unregistered

Guest
Actually, the new GeForce 4MX chips in the new PowerMacs are semantically GeForce 4s. So Apple is not misleading there, this is NOT the GeForce 3MX renamed. However, the article is correct in stating that the GeForce 4MX Apple is shipping is based on the NV17 chip, while the GeForce 4 (non-MX) will be based on the NV25 core.

nVidia will announce February 5 the GeForce 4 and GeForce 4MX (Apple has a deal with them that allows Apple to produce them sooner).

The difference is the NV25 core has dual vertex shaders and improved pixel shader, while the NV17 core has one vertex shader and no pixel shader.

The GeForce 4MX is still a nice chip... nowhere near the GeForce 4 (and less than a GeForce 3), although a good improvement over the GeForce 2MX and quite capable of handling next generation games.

Cheers.
 

mcbane

macrumors member
Jan 4, 2002
48
0
Re: 8500

Originally posted by me hate windows
Are there Radeon 8500s for Macs yet?:confused:

Yes, they have them in stock at CDW.com. I ordered a new powermac yesterday with a gf4mx, then today I canceled and went with the ATI card. SO I am going to take out the 7500 and put in an 8500. If only apple didn't make me buy a gfx card I didnt want. oh well.
 
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