Gen 3 butterfly keyboard

Lastgreen

macrumors member
Original poster
Oct 19, 2017
85
11
hey guys I made the forum so you can post your experience with the gen 3 keyboards. Also has anyone who recently got a keyboard been awarded with a gen 3 keyboard? And would Apple replace gen 2 keyboards with gen 3 upon repair?
 

Fishrrman

macrumors Core
Feb 20, 2009
19,110
6,552
"Generation 3" keyboard?
Unknown at this time.
Further speculation is impossible until these are in the hands of buyers...
 
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Schranke

macrumors 6502a
Apr 3, 2010
906
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Copenhagen, Denmark
I think we will have to wait an see for a teardown of the Gen 3 keyboard to see what sets them apart. as far as I know there is no external indicator like there were between gen 1 and gen 2
 

shyam09

macrumors 68020
Oct 31, 2010
2,101
2,085
I'm a bit glad I didn't wait. Since the 2018 models were launched in July, it wasn't that bad of a wait, but looking at the upgrades -- I'm pretty glad I settled with my 15" 2017 MBP (versus a 13" 2018 MBP).

Saved quite a bit of money for a keyboard that wasn't fixed (still a tiny, tiny fraction of a chance to get screwed on a $2k machine). The quietness in the keyboard is an appreciated feature, but I just have to learn to not bang my fingers on the keys to get a much quieter sound.
 

unobtainium

macrumors 68020
Mar 27, 2011
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This new third-generation keyboard wasn’t designed to solve those issues, Apple says. In fact, company representatives strenuously insisted that the keyboard issues have only affected a tiny, tiny fraction of its user base.

https://www.theverge.com/2018/7/12/...-touchbar-2018-intel-processor-siri-true-tone
Take that with a grain of salt. Apple is facing multiple class action lawsuits regarding 2016/17 keyboards. If they advertise that a new model "fixes" the problems, then they are admitting a design flaw inherent to previous models. Instead, they'd rather stick to the narrative that it's a "tiny, tiny minority" being affected.
- Written on my 2017 keyboard which required about 30 corrections in the space of one paragraph due to keyboard issues.
 

sunapple

macrumors 68000
Jul 16, 2013
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2,889
The Netherlands
It’s been quite the fiasco. So now the Gen 3 is supposed to be more silent, which is basically admitting that the noise was a problem in the older version (which it was). Like they haven’t properly developed the butterfly mechanism in the first place.

That lack of fine tuning may just be what caused the problem with the stuck keys. I’ve used Gen 1 butterfly keyboards and did have to occasionally blow out some dirt. That’s a different problem from actual broken keys I think. It might be a problem for a small percentage of users, but it maybe could’ve been prevented by better testing.

I’m guessing they’re working on something much different for the next-gen MBP’s. Gen 3 butterfly is just another small improvement on a system that was flawed from the start.

Solid state keys would be the most reliable (and quiet!), give it a few more years.
 

Appleaker

macrumors 68020
Jun 13, 2016
2,197
4,190
I don't expect them to replace gen 1/2 keyboards with gen 3 keyboards.

As i've said in multiple posts prior to this announcement, the changes weren't made in response to durability issues. They were made in response to the negative press regarding the 2016 keyboards (tactility, sound, etc).

I believe future variations may utilise MagLev technology similar to some of Dells 2018 XPS notebooks, which happened to use the butterfly mechanism. That would be directed at the complaints with keyboard travel and loudness, while being technically more durable.

It will be very interesting to see exactly how they compare in feel, noise, and internally to the gen 2 keyboards.
 
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fokmik

macrumors 601
Oct 28, 2016
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USA
Who has an apple store nearby??
[doublepost=1531412625][/doublepost]
Take that with a grain of salt. Apple is facing multiple class action lawsuits regarding 2016/17 keyboards. If they advertise that a new model "fixes" the problems, then they are admitting a design flaw inherent to previous models. Instead, they'd rather stick to the narrative that it's a "tiny, tiny minority" being affected.
- Written on my 2017 keyboard which required about 30 corrections in the space of one paragraph due to keyboard issues.
Agree !!
Why you don’t get your mbp keyboard fixed?
 

tangfish

macrumors regular
Sep 12, 2014
188
226
The one thing I wanted to see to upgrade my MBP is a solved keyboard problem. I’ve had 3 keyboard replacements done in a 9 month stretch. I can’t rationally buy a new machine without a redesigned keyboard meant to address the issue that’s been plaguing me. I guess I’m in the tiny percentage of people who had the problem, but 3 times....
 

JPack

macrumors 603
Mar 27, 2017
5,459
8,287
Take that with a grain of salt. Apple is facing multiple class action lawsuits regarding 2016/17 keyboards. If they advertise that a new model "fixes" the problems, then they are admitting a design flaw inherent to previous models. Instead, they'd rather stick to the narrative that it's a "tiny, tiny minority" being affected.
- Written on my 2017 keyboard which required about 30 corrections in the space of one paragraph due to keyboard issues.
What's the logic in that?

Apple has already admitted there's a problem with the butterfly keyboards.

The lawsuits can't proceed unless Apple updates the butterfly keyboard? Are lawsuits against Takata airbags pointless because there's no updated airbag inflator?

Proving there's a design defect with the keyboard is not difficult. Whether Apple has a solution to the problem isn't relevant.
 
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NT1440

macrumors G5
May 18, 2008
12,212
14,733
There was a patent a little while back that introduced a membrane to close off the switch under the keys. My suspicion is that is the 3rd gen just released. It would explain the quieter keys AND provide a fix for the issues with the 1st and 2nd gen.

I’ll see if I can dig up the patent images.
 

Lastgreen

macrumors member
Original poster
Oct 19, 2017
85
11
I don't expect them to replace gen 1/2 keyboards with gen 3 keyboards.

As i've said in multiple posts prior to this announcement, the changes weren't made in response to durability issues. They were made in response to the negative press regarding the 2016 keyboards (tactility, sound, etc).

I believe the gen 3 keyboard are utilising a form of MagLev technology, similar to some 2018 XPS notebooks. It may improve on durability but time will tell.

It will be very interesting to see exactly how they compare in feel, noise, and internally to the gen 2 keyboards.
Why is everyone saying that they wouldn't replace a gen 1/2 keyboard with gen 3? Didn't they replace gen 1 keyboards with gen 2 in the past? So don't you think it's possible for us to
Get a gen 3 replacement... otherwise we'; be stuck with ever failing gen 2 keys until the 4 year warranty is up
 

vaugha

macrumors 6502a
Nov 3, 2011
568
176
I don't expect them to replace gen 1/2 keyboards with gen 3 keyboards.

As i've said in multiple posts prior to this announcement, the changes weren't made in response to durability issues. They were made in response to the negative press regarding the 2016 keyboards (tactility, sound, etc).

I believe the gen 3 keyboard are utilising a form of MagLev technology, similar to some 2018 XPS notebooks. It may improve on durability but time will tell.

It will be very interesting to see exactly how they compare in feel, noise, and internally to the gen 2 keyboards.
Good info, I wasn't aware of this. Thanks.
 

NT1440

macrumors G5
May 18, 2008
12,212
14,733
Why is everyone saying that they wouldn't replace a gen 1/2 keyboard with gen 3? Didn't they replace gen 1 keyboards with gen 2 in the past? So don't you think it's possible for us to
Get a gen 3 replacement... otherwise we'; be stuck with ever failing gen 2 keys until the 4 year warranty is up
It’s going to be the exact same physical I/o connections, I see no reason why they wouldn’t be able to replace 1st & 2nd gen keyboards with the 3rd.
 

JPack

macrumors 603
Mar 27, 2017
5,459
8,287
There was a patent a little while back that introduced a membrane to close off the switch under the keys. My suspicion is that is the 3rd gen just released. It would explain the quieter keys AND provide a fix for the issues with the 1st and 2nd gen.

I’ll see if I can dig up the patent images.
Such a significant design change would deserve at least one keynote slide.

upload_2018-7-12_9-40-54.png


Instead, we simply got a press release and an outright denial the keyboard was redesigned.

I'm not sure why people are so hopeful. If Staingate can affect 2012-2017 models, why is the keyboard any different for Apple?
 

unobtainium

macrumors 68020
Mar 27, 2011
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What's the logic in that?

Apple has already admitted there's a problem with the butterfly keyboards.

The lawsuits can't proceed unless Apple updates the butterfly keyboard? Are lawsuits against Takata airbags pointless because there's no updated airbag inflator?

Proving there's a design defect with the keyboard is not difficult. Whether Apple has a solution to the problem isn't relevant.
There is a difference between:
1) extending the warranty for the “tiny, tiny minority” experiencing issues (without admitting an inherent design fault) which is what Apple has done, and
2) debuting a new keyboard design advertised as “fixing” the fault inherent to ALL previously released keyboards

Why do you think Apple has been so cagey about the keyboards being used in special warranty extension? They are using a new design but aren’t going to shout about it.
 
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fokmik

macrumors 601
Oct 28, 2016
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Yes and nr 2(design fault) in many countries means replace the 2016/2017 with the new one free of charge
I bet ifixit will see some little design change and Apple knew that from the start
 

unobtainium

macrumors 68020
Mar 27, 2011
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Who has an apple store nearby??
[doublepost=1531412625][/doublepost]
Agree !!
Why you don’t get your mbp keyboard fixed?
I use it every day for hours writing my dissertation. I have a chapter deadline and don’t want to be without my laptop even for a week or two, but I’ll have to bite the bullet here soon as it’s affecting productivity. I also just haven’t really had time to go to the Apple store.
 
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NT1440

macrumors G5
May 18, 2008
12,212
14,733
Such a significant design change would deserve at least one keynote slide.

View attachment 770302

Instead, we simply got a press release and an outright denial the keyboard was redesigned.

I'm not sure why people are so hopeful. If Staingate can affect 2012-2017 models, why is the keyboard any different for Apple?
Why would it warrant a slide when the upgraded machines themselves didn’t appear at a press event?

Putting a guard around the switch is a major announcement in your view?
 
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fokmik

macrumors 601
Oct 28, 2016
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I use it every day for hours writing my dissertation. I have a chapter deadline and don’t want to be without my laptop even for a week or two, but I’ll have to bite the bullet here soon as it’s affecting productivity. I also just haven’t really had time to go to the Apple store.
Hmm i think they fix your keyboard in 2 days
 
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Beau10

macrumors 6502a
Apr 6, 2008
728
102
Downtown San Diego
Such a significant design change would deserve at least one keynote slide.

View attachment 770302

Instead, we simply got a press release and an outright denial the keyboard was redesigned.

I'm not sure why people are so hopeful. If Staingate can affect 2012-2017 models, why is the keyboard any different for Apple?
Well, they claim it's a Gen III which implies some sort of redesign, but yes that could just be a marketing tactic in this case.

I would be surprised if they implemented the patent and do agree that if they did, they would want to openly advertise the internal design change.

When and if that comes I doubt they'll say it's more durable or fixes a design issue, rather will solely highlight the spill resistance properties.
 
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