Gen 3 butterfly keyboard

Discussion in 'MacBook Pro' started by Lastgreen, Jul 12, 2018.

  1. Lastgreen macrumors member

    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2017
    #1
    hey guys I made the forum so you can post your experience with the gen 3 keyboards. Also has anyone who recently got a keyboard been awarded with a gen 3 keyboard? And would Apple replace gen 2 keyboards with gen 3 upon repair?
     
  2. thadoggfather macrumors G3

    thadoggfather

    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2007
    #2
    I don’t know but I think gen3 might be limited to 2018 and not a repair option for 2016/2017
     
  3. Fishrrman macrumors G5

    Fishrrman

    Joined:
    Feb 20, 2009
    #3
    "Generation 3" keyboard?
    Unknown at this time.
    Further speculation is impossible until these are in the hands of buyers...
     
  4. Schranke macrumors 6502a

    Schranke

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2010
    Location:
    Copenhagen, Denmark
    #4
    I think we will have to wait an see for a teardown of the Gen 3 keyboard to see what sets them apart. as far as I know there is no external indicator like there were between gen 1 and gen 2
     
  5. turbineseaplane macrumors 68040

    turbineseaplane

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2008
    #5
    Enjoy the testing everyone…
    I will not be joining you in that

    I expect a tear down to reveal that patent for a way to keep crumbs and stuff out of there has been implemented
     
  6. JPack macrumors 68030

    JPack

    Joined:
    Mar 27, 2017
    #6
  7. shyam09 macrumors 68020

    shyam09

    Joined:
    Oct 31, 2010
    #7
    I'm a bit glad I didn't wait. Since the 2018 models were launched in July, it wasn't that bad of a wait, but looking at the upgrades -- I'm pretty glad I settled with my 15" 2017 MBP (versus a 13" 2018 MBP).

    Saved quite a bit of money for a keyboard that wasn't fixed (still a tiny, tiny fraction of a chance to get screwed on a $2k machine). The quietness in the keyboard is an appreciated feature, but I just have to learn to not bang my fingers on the keys to get a much quieter sound.
     
  8. vaugha macrumors 6502

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2011
    #8
    Haha, neither am I. I am waiting until I am convinced that the keyboards and popping sound issues are resolved. Let the reviews come.
     
  9. unobtainium macrumors 68020

    Joined:
    Mar 27, 2011
    #9
    Take that with a grain of salt. Apple is facing multiple class action lawsuits regarding 2016/17 keyboards. If they advertise that a new model "fixes" the problems, then they are admitting a design flaw inherent to previous models. Instead, they'd rather stick to the narrative that it's a "tiny, tiny minority" being affected.
    - Written on my 2017 keyboard which required about 30 corrections in the space of one paragraph due to keyboard issues.
     
  10. sunapple macrumors 65816

    sunapple

    Joined:
    Jul 16, 2013
    Location:
    The Netherlands
    #10
    It’s been quite the fiasco. So now the Gen 3 is supposed to be more silent, which is basically admitting that the noise was a problem in the older version (which it was). Like they haven’t properly developed the butterfly mechanism in the first place.

    That lack of fine tuning may just be what caused the problem with the stuck keys. I’ve used Gen 1 butterfly keyboards and did have to occasionally blow out some dirt. That’s a different problem from actual broken keys I think. It might be a problem for a small percentage of users, but it maybe could’ve been prevented by better testing.

    I’m guessing they’re working on something much different for the next-gen MBP’s. Gen 3 butterfly is just another small improvement on a system that was flawed from the start.

    Solid state keys would be the most reliable (and quiet!), give it a few more years.
     
  11. Appleaker, Jul 12, 2018
    Last edited: Jul 13, 2018

    Appleaker macrumors 68020

    Joined:
    Jun 13, 2016
    #11
    I don't expect them to replace gen 1/2 keyboards with gen 3 keyboards.

    As i've said in multiple posts prior to this announcement, the changes weren't made in response to durability issues. They were made in response to the negative press regarding the 2016 keyboards (tactility, sound, etc).

    I believe future variations may utilise MagLev technology similar to some of Dells 2018 XPS notebooks, which happened to use the butterfly mechanism. That would be directed at the complaints with keyboard travel and loudness, while being technically more durable.

    It will be very interesting to see exactly how they compare in feel, noise, and internally to the gen 2 keyboards.
     
  12. fokmik macrumors 68020

    Joined:
    Oct 28, 2016
    Location:
    USA
    #12
    Who has an apple store nearby??
    --- Post Merged, Jul 12, 2018 ---
    Agree !!
    Why you don’t get your mbp keyboard fixed?
     
  13. tangfish macrumors regular

    tangfish

    Joined:
    Sep 12, 2014
    #13
    The one thing I wanted to see to upgrade my MBP is a solved keyboard problem. I’ve had 3 keyboard replacements done in a 9 month stretch. I can’t rationally buy a new machine without a redesigned keyboard meant to address the issue that’s been plaguing me. I guess I’m in the tiny percentage of people who had the problem, but 3 times....
     
  14. JPack, Jul 12, 2018
    Last edited: Jul 12, 2018

    JPack macrumors 68030

    JPack

    Joined:
    Mar 27, 2017
    #14
    What's the logic in that?

    Apple has already admitted there's a problem with the butterfly keyboards.

    The lawsuits can't proceed unless Apple updates the butterfly keyboard? Are lawsuits against Takata airbags pointless because there's no updated airbag inflator?

    Proving there's a design defect with the keyboard is not difficult. Whether Apple has a solution to the problem isn't relevant.
     
  15. NT1440 macrumors G4

    NT1440

    Joined:
    May 18, 2008
    #15
    There was a patent a little while back that introduced a membrane to close off the switch under the keys. My suspicion is that is the 3rd gen just released. It would explain the quieter keys AND provide a fix for the issues with the 1st and 2nd gen.

    I’ll see if I can dig up the patent images.
     
  16. Lastgreen thread starter macrumors member

    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2017
    #16
    Why is everyone saying that they wouldn't replace a gen 1/2 keyboard with gen 3? Didn't they replace gen 1 keyboards with gen 2 in the past? So don't you think it's possible for us to
    Get a gen 3 replacement... otherwise we'; be stuck with ever failing gen 2 keys until the 4 year warranty is up
     
  17. vaugha macrumors 6502

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2011
    #17
    Good info, I wasn't aware of this. Thanks.
     
  18. NT1440 macrumors G4

    NT1440

    Joined:
    May 18, 2008
    #18
    It’s going to be the exact same physical I/o connections, I see no reason why they wouldn’t be able to replace 1st & 2nd gen keyboards with the 3rd.
     
  19. JPack macrumors 68030

    JPack

    Joined:
    Mar 27, 2017
    #19
    Such a significant design change would deserve at least one keynote slide.

    upload_2018-7-12_9-40-54.png

    Instead, we simply got a press release and an outright denial the keyboard was redesigned.

    I'm not sure why people are so hopeful. If Staingate can affect 2012-2017 models, why is the keyboard any different for Apple?
     
  20. unobtainium macrumors 68020

    Joined:
    Mar 27, 2011
    #20
    There is a difference between:
    1) extending the warranty for the “tiny, tiny minority” experiencing issues (without admitting an inherent design fault) which is what Apple has done, and
    2) debuting a new keyboard design advertised as “fixing” the fault inherent to ALL previously released keyboards

    Why do you think Apple has been so cagey about the keyboards being used in special warranty extension? They are using a new design but aren’t going to shout about it.
     
  21. fokmik macrumors 68020

    Joined:
    Oct 28, 2016
    Location:
    USA
    #21
    Yes and nr 2(design fault) in many countries means replace the 2016/2017 with the new one free of charge
    I bet ifixit will see some little design change and Apple knew that from the start
     
  22. unobtainium macrumors 68020

    Joined:
    Mar 27, 2011
    #22
    I use it every day for hours writing my dissertation. I have a chapter deadline and don’t want to be without my laptop even for a week or two, but I’ll have to bite the bullet here soon as it’s affecting productivity. I also just haven’t really had time to go to the Apple store.
     
  23. NT1440 macrumors G4

    NT1440

    Joined:
    May 18, 2008
    #23
    Why would it warrant a slide when the upgraded machines themselves didn’t appear at a press event?

    Putting a guard around the switch is a major announcement in your view?
     
  24. fokmik macrumors 68020

    Joined:
    Oct 28, 2016
    Location:
    USA
    #24
    Hmm i think they fix your keyboard in 2 days
     
  25. Beau10 macrumors 6502a

    Joined:
    Apr 6, 2008
    Location:
    Downtown San Diego
    #25
    Well, they claim it's a Gen III which implies some sort of redesign, but yes that could just be a marketing tactic in this case.

    I would be surprised if they implemented the patent and do agree that if they did, they would want to openly advertise the internal design change.

    When and if that comes I doubt they'll say it's more durable or fixes a design issue, rather will solely highlight the spill resistance properties.
     

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