I agree. I don't think it's the only reason (that's why I said "at least partly"), but it's quite likely a contributing factor. High prices combined with weakened reliability aren't exactly the recipe for growing sales.
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Gen 3 butterfly keyboard
- Thread starter Lastgreen
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I agree. I don't think it's the only reason (that's why I said "at least partly"), but it's quite likely a contributing factor. High prices combined with weakened reliability aren't exactly the recipe for growing sales.
I own a 2018 MBP 15" and have had issues with the space bar not working from time to time. Nothing stops it from restarting to updating etc. Then all the sudden the keyboard works great again for a period of time, until a week or two later it stops again fora few hours or even a day.
My MBP is out of warranty now....was there a recall that out of warranty MBP are covered under? Or am I SOL?
My MBP is out of warranty now....was there a recall that out of warranty MBP are covered under? Or am I SOL?
There is a service program in place for your keyboard. Just book an appointment at the Apple store and get it replaced.
Hi, glad to hear your issue was resolved. I have a macbook pro 13” 2018 3 keyboard replacements already, now again keys getting stuck. I was thinking to call Apple and ask for a different solution. I paid for the macbook with upgrades the same as the 16” base costs now. Im wondering if I can ask them politely to replace it with a 16” that has the new keyboard. What do you think?
Never hurts to ask, but I don't know if they'd swap out a 13" for a 16"... maybe offer you the 2019 13".
Thanks for sharing that story. We hear enough about the bad service some members receive, its always good to hear Apple does still go above and beyond. Ive had my share of questionable experience, but that is typically such an exception which for me has typically always worked out in the end.
@clinkinfo2 I think I agree regarding the hard typing. That likely explains why this latest version reinforced the dome with metal. The harder typing along with the vulnerability with dust creating 2 possible points of failure made for a questionable experience.
I think a lot of us typically come from the traditional keyboards with a longer keystroke, and when your used to pushing keys that hard for years, the habit stays. I always looked at it like breaking wood in martial arts. They break it and make it look easy because they are looking past the wood. Some are unintentionally doing that with their butterfly keyboards, and over time, it has effected users. I have adapted, and I don't tend to hit them that hard. I did however have the issue with dust on a 2016 MacBook Pro. I have a 2019 since release and the experience so far has been very positive.
I think with this latest generation butterfly, between the layer to prevent dust, and the reinforced domes under the keys have improved the experience dramatically. I dont read about the problem with the latest nearly as often as with previous versions. The bad taste left by the earlier designs has created enough doubt and hesitation for people to purchase, it left Apple with no choice but to go back to the scissors.
@clinkinfo2 I think I agree regarding the hard typing. That likely explains why this latest version reinforced the dome with metal. The harder typing along with the vulnerability with dust creating 2 possible points of failure made for a questionable experience.
I think a lot of us typically come from the traditional keyboards with a longer keystroke, and when your used to pushing keys that hard for years, the habit stays. I always looked at it like breaking wood in martial arts. They break it and make it look easy because they are looking past the wood. Some are unintentionally doing that with their butterfly keyboards, and over time, it has effected users. I have adapted, and I don't tend to hit them that hard. I did however have the issue with dust on a 2016 MacBook Pro. I have a 2019 since release and the experience so far has been very positive.
I think with this latest generation butterfly, between the layer to prevent dust, and the reinforced domes under the keys have improved the experience dramatically. I dont read about the problem with the latest nearly as often as with previous versions. The bad taste left by the earlier designs has created enough doubt and hesitation for people to purchase, it left Apple with no choice but to go back to the scissors.
My 2017 MacBook Pro is booked-in at the Genius Bar under the keyboard service program. So far, only one key is non-functioning, but I would expect it to get worse from here.
To save me trawling through 86 pages of chat, would anyone be so kind as to broadly outline what I might expect to happen? I imagine a complete keyboard replacement will be offered? Am I correct in saying that as a 2017 model it would not get the gen 3?
To save me trawling through 86 pages of chat, would anyone be so kind as to broadly outline what I might expect to happen? I imagine a complete keyboard replacement will be offered? Am I correct in saying that as a 2017 model it would not get the gen 3?
In a nutshell: They will replace the keyboard with the 2017 version. Only 2018 and 2019 get the new version. So you will get another keyboard, which is known to fail after a while. You can keep doing this until 4 years after purchase date, then you will have to buy an external keyboard or pay approximately $700 per keyboard replacement.
Thanks for the reply. So the keyboard will be the exact same item, not the 2nd generation revision?
I think you are correct. Although, I am not sure about your revision numbering. It will not be the latest BF keyboard released in 2019. Unfortunately, It will be the same KB as the one that failed on you. Which is a bummer.
It'll be 3rd gen. Unfortunately prone to failure more than 4th and 5th gen.
1st gen: 2015 Macbook
2nd gen: 2016 Macbook Pro
3rd gen: 2017 Macbook Pro (Apple never acknowledged this, although there is slight change in key design, and some indications that it was also a mechanism redesign), same change for 2017 Macbook
4th gen: 2018 Macbook Pro (additional silicone barrier)
5th gen: 2019 Macbook Pro (dome redesign) - most probably the final redesign. I don't believe we'll see another new Apple product with this type of keyboard.
1st gen: 2015 Macbook
2nd gen: 2016 Macbook Pro
3rd gen: 2017 Macbook Pro (Apple never acknowledged this, although there is slight change in key design, and some indications that it was also a mechanism redesign), same change for 2017 Macbook
4th gen: 2018 Macbook Pro (additional silicone barrier)
5th gen: 2019 Macbook Pro (dome redesign) - most probably the final redesign. I don't believe we'll see another new Apple product with this type of keyboard.
I think you are correct. In addition, for the 5th generation, Apple moved from a silicone membrane/barrier to nylon, which is less tacky and possibly less prone to collect dust.
The MBA used the same KB as the 13in MBP. If you have a failure with the 4th gen KB, I think they can replace it with the latest 5th gen. Otherwise, you get an older generation replacement. Again, that’s kind of a bummer.
Yeah, got 4th gen replaced with 5th gen on my 2018 MBP, but I am also starting to see the new keyboard fail slowly. Kinda an expert now on this so I definitely feel when a double press is my fault or not.
I have been lucky. So far, no problems with my 2019 MBA. When I go on the MacRumors MBA thread, I don't see many posts of problems with the 2019 KB. That said, I am sure they happen.
I hope my MBA stands the test of time. I loved my old 2014 MBA, and I really like this new one too. It is the prefect machine for my needs, which admittedly are not very taxing. I actually like the typing experience, which is a subjective thing.
Great news. I can happily report that my 2018 MBP with its ****** non-working keyboard has been fully refunded to me by the non-Apple third-party retailer in Sydney who I purchased it from.
In my case, I had had such a bad experience with Apple in the previous year regarding my 2017 MBP return (the worst customer support experience of my life, exactly like this), that this time I bought the machine from a reseller, who I can legally pursue completely independently of Apple. This will be my pattern for the rest of my life. Never buy from an Apple Store again. Apple have too much power when you buy it from them, and it's just not worth it.
However if you are an original Apple Store customer you may have the same success as me, if you're firm about your consumer rights.
What I did is point out that the repair method Apple provides does NOT resolve the problem for the consumer, because it's true.
Under Australian Consumer Law, this squarely puts the defect into the 'major failure' category on arguably 2-3 counts:
- "it is substantially unfit for its common purpose and can’t easily be fixed within a reasonable time"
- "it doesn’t do what you asked for and can’t easily be fixed within a reasonable time"
- "it has a problem that would have stopped someone from buying it if they’d known about it"
This problem can't be fixed at ALL. That's how bad it is. A replacement with a different design, is the only remedy. This became obvious since early on.
Hope all this helps someone.
When showing my 2018 model to Apple the 'genius' argued with and denied it's a major failure (which is a claim that would lose in the Tribunal, IMO), but he did agree to write the words on the report I've already posted a scan of, and that was enough for Harvey Norman to process my refund.
The 16-inch keyboard is wonderful, and finally I feel like I have something like my 2012 model again.
In my case, I had had such a bad experience with Apple in the previous year regarding my 2017 MBP return (the worst customer support experience of my life, exactly like this), that this time I bought the machine from a reseller, who I can legally pursue completely independently of Apple. This will be my pattern for the rest of my life. Never buy from an Apple Store again. Apple have too much power when you buy it from them, and it's just not worth it.
However if you are an original Apple Store customer you may have the same success as me, if you're firm about your consumer rights.
What I did is point out that the repair method Apple provides does NOT resolve the problem for the consumer, because it's true.
Under Australian Consumer Law, this squarely puts the defect into the 'major failure' category on arguably 2-3 counts:
- "it is substantially unfit for its common purpose and can’t easily be fixed within a reasonable time"
- "it doesn’t do what you asked for and can’t easily be fixed within a reasonable time"
- "it has a problem that would have stopped someone from buying it if they’d known about it"
This problem can't be fixed at ALL. That's how bad it is. A replacement with a different design, is the only remedy. This became obvious since early on.
Hope all this helps someone.
When showing my 2018 model to Apple the 'genius' argued with and denied it's a major failure (which is a claim that would lose in the Tribunal, IMO), but he did agree to write the words on the report I've already posted a scan of, and that was enough for Harvey Norman to process my refund.
The 16-inch keyboard is wonderful, and finally I feel like I have something like my 2012 model again.
My keyboard appears to have fixed itself. I’m still booked in at the Genius Bar so will probably take it in anyway and hope it gets replaced as a matter of precaution. As of this moment it is functioning just fine, but I’m hoping they will chalk it up as intermittent, and replace it anyway.
My sister's 2019 MBA started getting repeat keys (she has a video of it) - the Apple Store pushed REALLY HARD for just a " cleaning " but promised if she was still having problems they'd replace the keyboard (have to send it out). She made the video of the repeat key after coming home from the Apple Store cleaning, lol.
My wife's 2017 MBP's keyboard - from nearly 2 years of HEAVY PhD use (daily) - has some of the finish wearing off on the a key - but my wife and I are having no problems with our 2017 MBP keyboards. <knocks on wood>.
I told my sister to set the key repeat timing way down (up?) and she hasn't said anything since.
My wife's 2017 MBP's keyboard - from nearly 2 years of HEAVY PhD use (daily) - has some of the finish wearing off on the a key - but my wife and I are having no problems with our 2017 MBP keyboards. <knocks on wood>.
I told my sister to set the key repeat timing way down (up?) and she hasn't said anything since.
Update: after 3 keyboard replacements on my macbook pro 13” 2018 I called apple looking for a different solutions. They agreed that after 3 repairs they will exchange the product. They will replace my macbook with the 16” Macbook pro. Very happy about it, Apples Customer Service is the best.
As long as your computer is within the 4 years from original date of purchase, you can keep getting keyboard replacements. Unfortunately there is no fixed part available for the 2017 MBP, so yes, you keep getting the same defective keyboard.