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Gen 3 butterfly keyboard
- Thread starter Lastgreen
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Slides can be sent as marketing collateral to reviewers. It doesn't need a full-on press event.
The fact that there's not a single image or graphic about the keyboard mechanism tells you the change in design or materials is extremely minor.
Source?
If it’s a membrane of some type that makes it quieter that will also fix the issue. So I’m going to ask you to elaborate on where you’re getting your information from.
Maybe I missed something, your official source is a MR thread that just quotes reviewers who absolutely have not taken the keyboard apart?
A poster has already shown a patent on a variant of the butterfly keyboard with a new membrane that was NOT there before, which would fix the issue outright.
We’ll see when ifixit gets a tear down going if that membrane is there or not, I suspect it is.
Based on your logic, Apple would never be able to advertise improvements.
More battery cycles available in the new iPhone? The existing one must have a design fault. The new MacBook Pro has improved cooling? That means lawyers can claim the old MacBook was a fire hazard, right?
Apple can advertise a Gen 3 keyboard with "improved reliability." Just as countless auto manufacturers do so for their products.
GE supplies engines to Boeing and publicly advertises improved engine reliability. Should they not be doing so for fear of lawsuits?
They're not denying changes to fix the keyboard, they're denying there is an issue to fix.
It's certainly in their best interest to do mitigate the issue to reduce their own warranty costs.
The key difference (har, har) is the butterfly keyboards introduced issues that are abnormal for keyboards as a rule. It's a different thing from claiming improvements to established industry norms or product lines.
It's the difference between saying "we addressed our f'up" vs "we made this better". The difference being, "we f'ed up".
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Do you really not see the distinction there? Let's imagine the scenario. GE supplies engines to Boeing in 2016 and 2017 that have a reputation for major failure at a much higher than normal rate. Multiple class action suits are launched alleging that there's a fundamental design flaw causing the failures. If GE wants to fight the class action suits (which allege a design flaw in ALL 2016 and 2017 models), are they going to loudly advertise that they have fixed an *inherent flaw* in their previous engine design that caused a high failure rate and class action suits? No, because that's an admission that every engine produced in 2016 and 2017 was faulty by design.
I saw the patent application, although it doesn’t mean much - it was filed back in 2016. I’d love for it to be true, but no confirmation of that yet.
The part of my post which may indicate it wasn't fixed was an Apple rep speaking to Dieter Bohn:
The Verge's Dieter Bohn, however, says the third-generation keyboard "wasn't designed to solve those issues," based on what Apple told him during a press briefing for the new MacBook Pro earlier this week.This new third-generation keyboard wasn't designed to solve those issues, Apple says. In fact, company representatives strenuously insisted that the keyboard issues have only affected a tiny, tiny fraction of its user base…
When we asked Apple representatives at the event exactly how the keyboard was changed to make it quieter, they declined to specify.That can be interpreted in two ways: either Apple has not made any structural changes to the keyboard to address the issues outlined in its service program, or it has and doesn't want to acknowledge it on the record.
Let's look at Antennagate and Bendgate.
When Apple launched iPhone 4S, they indicated in their press release the design was improved to "switch between two antennas to send and receive." Did the courts decide the millions of people holding an iPhone 4 could now get a full refund?
When Apple launched iPhone 6s, their press release indicated they now use "7000 series aluminum." Did lawyers around the world cheer in unison?
Proving something is fundamentally flawed in courts is a lot harder than just Apple admitting they made a hardware improvement. Courts look at how the keyboard was designed and tested before production and if Apple ought to have known there was a fundamental problem with the keyboard.
Whether an improvement was made later is completely irrelevant.
If Apple made a change in keyboard design or materials for Gen 3, they would have no problems advertising that.
I think you are right that it isn’t to do with being sued.
However if they did fix, or let’s use the word “improve their reliability”, and they had confirmed so, the media will paint all prior models as flawed and Apple can no longer play the obviously false narrative of “it affects only a small %”.
It’s more of an image decision imo.
Nothing like the butterfly keyboard exists outside of Apple. So what will the lawyers compare the keyboard to?
What are the established norms? Apple made no previous claims about butterfly keyboard reliability.
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There's probably more benefit to promote new products rather than preserve value of old ones. If Apple did improve the design of the keyboard, why keep consumers uniformed? We're seeing ambiguity in this very thread.
Look at Bendgate, iPhone 6 still sold like crazy after 6s was introduced. In fact, iPhone 6 32GB is still being sold today.
I think bend gate was a strange one in that, how many bent iPhones did you witness? Personally I only saw them online.
They could be bent easily it appears, but only as easily as they could be dropped and have a cracked screen. Yes they strengthened it, but they also continue to strengthen the screen so how much of an issue it was, is a valid question.
The keyboard issue just seems to be a bigger risk than the bend gate issue - and that is what I think is the difference.
The established norms are it's a FREAKIN' KEYBOARD, lol.
It doesn't have any unique functions that separate it from other keyboards. It has a new type of key switch. There have been a variety of key switches used since the dawn of keyboards.
I've typed on a variety of keyboards since the late 70s, personally owned dozens over the decades, including such classics at the Model M on the PC end and the AEII on the Mac that were developed some 30+ years ago. None had a failure mode inherent to the design that was notable like this. None had reliability issues that needed improvement. Some had poor UX, sure, but feeling like you're typing in oatmeal has nothing to do with reliability and durability.
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The bending issue was actually huge. Google "iPhone Touch Disease". Anyone in the 3rd party iPhone repair business can tell you that the 6+ was an anomaly with far more failures due to flexion damage than any other phone in recent years. You are much less likely to have experience with the issue if you are male, work a desk job, and have mostly male friends who work a desk job.
If you are female, you are much more likely to have experienced the issue (due to females being far more likely to put phones in their back pocket), similarly if you work a strenuous job such as construction.
This has led to the problem being much less visible to people who are traditionally more likely to make a noisy complaint about it.
The keyboard issue seems more likely to effect pro users as much if not more than regular users, which will likely result in a different method of handling on Apple's side.
Louis Rossman has done a number of videos on the subject as well.
Apple lawyers will probably argue conventional keyboards don't compare as butterfly has better stability, uniformity and control. And thickness.
I realized a few hours later that as soon as I saw a new MBP announced I excitedly went to the article, scrolled right past all the stuff about processor, RAM, SSD, GPU and scanned until I found mention of the keyboard, hoping that there is “advancements” in that department.
Dang, it’s a sad day to be an Apple fanboy
Dang, it’s a sad day to be an Apple fanboy
