And a majority of MR members would disagree with your view. Someone did a poll back in March 2015 (before the AW was officially released) and only 26.7% of the responders were of the opinion that it'd be suitable for men whereas the rest thought it'd be too feminine or weren't sure and needed to see it in person first. This was based on photos alone and it's even more feminine in person (at least to me). Moreover, I've yet to see a single guy rocking the Modern Buckle (no, effeminate Pharrell and crotch-grabbing Drake don't count) and no male MR members seem to want to admit they wear it.
Got a tip for us?
Let us know
Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.
Gender roles and identities with Apple Watch
- Thread starter brinary001
- Start date
- Sort by reaction score
And a majority of MR members would disagree with your view. Someone did a poll back in March 2015 (before the AW was officially released) and only 26.7% of the responders were of the opinion that it'd be suitable for men whereas the rest thought it'd be too feminine or weren't sure and needed to see it in person first. This was based on photos alone and it's even more feminine in person (at least to me). Moreover, I've yet to see a single guy rocking the Modern Buckle (no, effeminate Pharrell and crotch-grabbing Drake don't count) and no male MR members seem to want to admit they wear it.
You are embarrassing yourself now. Pinker is highly respected among his peers. His reputation and his body of work has garnered more praise than criticism—which not surprisingly has mostly come from ideologues whose intransigent political beliefs are automatically favored over the research he presents. Understandably, not everyone is familiar nor even interested in the fundamentals of science and how our ancient history as a species influences us as humans and, yes, as male and female.
We're progressing to nothing new, unfortunately. So in short, I'd agree with you—but then both of us would be wrong.
Well a majority of MR members that disagree with my argument are probably incorrect in this particular case. Just because there was a majority who voted one way doesn't mean that the majority are correct. That is possible you know.
I do know what you mean, lots of men on the MacRumors forum are in the closet about admitting their ownership of a modern buckle. *sarcasm* Yep, the modern buckle really screams "I am woman, hear me roar!". No it doesn't. Not at all.
That poll you refer to isn't scientific, nor is it representative, obviously. But, even still, 26% are interested to get it even when the poll question and the introductory statement immediately frame the modern buckle as a feminine accessory:
"Men: Considering the modern buckle?"
"No, too feminine"
"While the bands are sized mostly for women..." *Forum/poll author grabs crotch to reaffirm gender*
It's clear the author of that thread/poll has come to the forums with a bias view only to unwittingly promote that bias further.
See the sports bands and modern buckle bands below. Clearly the bands are gender indifferent, neither feminine, neither masculine. Men and women can wear either. This issue is about as interesting as the leather loop band coming in only 42mm. Now where's the poll for that issue?
Pick the style that you honestly want to wear. Femininity and masculinity is a construct we project onto things unnecessarily and interferes with individuals from expressing their true ideas and selves.
Some of the watches (similar to many other kinds of accessories) are more masculine and others are more feminine.
But that doesn't mean that males can't/shouldn't wear the more "feminine" ones, and that doesn't mean that females can't/shouldn't wear the more "masculine" ones.
Ultimately, you're the person wearing the watch/accessory, so wear the one that you like best.
But that doesn't mean that males can't/shouldn't wear the more "feminine" ones, and that doesn't mean that females can't/shouldn't wear the more "masculine" ones.
Ultimately, you're the person wearing the watch/accessory, so wear the one that you like best.
You're embarrassing yourself by persisting with this flawed book.
[doublepost=1462825379][/doublepost]
What exactly makes a masculine watch masculine and what makes a feminine watch feminine?
See the sports bands and modern buckle bands below. Clearly the bands are gender indifferent, neither feminine, neither masculine. Men and women can wear either. This issue is about as interesting as the leather loop band coming in only 42mm. Now where's the poll for that issue?
Pick the style that you honestly want to wear. Femininity and masculinity is a construct we project onto things unnecessarily and interferes with individuals from expressing their true ideas and selves.
Feel free to start a new poll and I can pretty much guarantee you that a majority of the responders will disagree that the Modern Buckle band is gender neutral. The rather pronounced size and curvature of the buckle are decidedly feminine, especially considering that big buckles on watches have always been perceived as feminine and a number of women belts have buckles shaped like the one seen on the Modern Buckle. Moreover, a lot more men would opt for the bolder pink found on the Sport rather than the much softer, sheer pink on the pink Modern Buckle.
So what if the buckle is pronounced? Apple Watch has a Classic Buckle and a Modern Buckle. My take is that the larger Modern Buckle looks "solid", which based on your reasoning might actually be a masculine feature. And I've seen women wear small belt buckles in the shape of the Classic Buckle. The bands aren't gender specific. I don't think you speak on behalf of a lot of men. The arguments and reasoning made aren't persuasive and just reinforce the narrow view of what men and women typically wear and probably don't apply further than 50 square feet from your computer. Anyone who thinks that Apple infused an air of femininity into the modern buckle is mistaken.
(I apologise to the thread creator for this ongoing protracted conversation.)
Actually many have reported that the band portion of the Modern Buckle is rather thin and not as substantial as that found on the Classic Buckle. So it's a thinner, less substantial band along with a much bigger buckle.
Go ahead and do the poll. You'll see you don't speak on behalf of a lot of men and the poll results would just reaffirm what I and others have been saying all along.
On launch, the modern buckle looked pretty neutral to me, IIRC. Just another option, really.
It was only later on that it seemed to be positioned as "feminine".
I had a good look at one in the store when my wife was trying it on. My first thought was that the leather was extremely thin and it wouldn't last long. Second thought was how cleverly enginered the clasp was. That's all really.
It was only later on that it seemed to be positioned as "feminine".
I had a good look at one in the store when my wife was trying it on. My first thought was that the leather was extremely thin and it wouldn't last long. Second thought was how cleverly enginered the clasp was. That's all really.
I really think the modern buckle is neutral.
Many have said 38mm was supposed to be the size for women, but I don't think anybody has looked at the leather loop and said it is definitely masculine because it comes in only 42mm. Why doesn't it come in 38 too? Looks more like they were perhaps trying to offer some exclusive options between the watches. Kind of like how the gold sport comes with the sport band with the gold pin. I think the black sport band with black pin may have also been exclusive but they've started selling it separately. Then there are also the "gold" and "rose gold" watch face color options only available on those respective watches.
Looking at the modern buckle, it doesn't even seem to be offered in any range of color options that are seen as feminine. Seems pretty neutral.
I don't believe thinness or thickness of material has anything to do with it either. I see males talking about band characteristics like thickness as well as lightness all the time on the forum.
Also, I've seen plenty of threads where men have gone on and on about these devices and how they pair with masculinity. I was on the iPhone forum before I started coming here and many guys were concerned about getting the gold or rose gold phones and being seen as feminine. Same thing with the watches in those colors. The first few times I saw those discussions, I thought people were talking about it for the sake of having a lighthearted discussion, but there were seriously people in there concerned about being judged.
That being said, clearly, a lot of people are self conscious about this kind of stuff. So, when something a little different comes along, I think people tend to overanalyze. The other day, I had a guy reply to a picture I put up of my black milanese and he said the silver one was too feminine for him but the black one was just right.
I just don't see it.
Many have said 38mm was supposed to be the size for women, but I don't think anybody has looked at the leather loop and said it is definitely masculine because it comes in only 42mm. Why doesn't it come in 38 too? Looks more like they were perhaps trying to offer some exclusive options between the watches. Kind of like how the gold sport comes with the sport band with the gold pin. I think the black sport band with black pin may have also been exclusive but they've started selling it separately. Then there are also the "gold" and "rose gold" watch face color options only available on those respective watches.
Looking at the modern buckle, it doesn't even seem to be offered in any range of color options that are seen as feminine. Seems pretty neutral.
I don't believe thinness or thickness of material has anything to do with it either. I see males talking about band characteristics like thickness as well as lightness all the time on the forum.
Also, I've seen plenty of threads where men have gone on and on about these devices and how they pair with masculinity. I was on the iPhone forum before I started coming here and many guys were concerned about getting the gold or rose gold phones and being seen as feminine. Same thing with the watches in those colors. The first few times I saw those discussions, I thought people were talking about it for the sake of having a lighthearted discussion, but there were seriously people in there concerned about being judged.
That being said, clearly, a lot of people are self conscious about this kind of stuff. So, when something a little different comes along, I think people tend to overanalyze. The other day, I had a guy reply to a picture I put up of my black milanese and he said the silver one was too feminine for him but the black one was just right.
I just don't see it.
Baloney. Sheer pink, rose gray and bright red (which is actually on the orange side) found on the Modern Buckle bands are feminine shades. By contrast, the shades of pink, gray and red that you find on the Sport bands are pretty neutral.
Rose gray? I'm not seeing that on the modern buckle page.
And "sheer pink" looks pretty neutral to me:
You're grasping at straws. :/
Rose gray? I'm not seeing that on the modern buckle page.
And "sheer pink" looks pretty neutral to me:
You're grasping at straws. :/
Rose gray is found on the Edition version. A majority of forum members would say you're the one who is grasping at straws.
Are you kidding me?? Its a darker gray:
I'm afraid you can only speak for yourself, lol.
[doublepost=1462983541][/doublepost]
Gotta really push the envelope to rock the "sheer pink". Risqué risqué!
Are you kidding me?? Its a darker gray:
I'm afraid you can only speak for yourself, lol.
Thanks for illustrating how large the buckle is relative to the watch body. Feel free to start a poll.
Not sure what you're talking about there. The band reminds me of an average belt buckle. And I've been told bigger was supposed to be more masculine, hence the 42mm.
Start a poll about what? I think the modern buckle is neutral. I have no desire to see who agrees or disagrees with me. What I will or won't wear comes down to how I feel.
Now that I'm seeing all these pictures, I actually wouldn't mind a black modern buckle for my Space Black, even with silver adapters.
Big buckles on belts are considered masculine (unless it's oversized and attached to a woman's clothes as part of the design, with very thin band much like what you see on the Modern Buckle). Big buckles on watches, on the other hand, are considered feminine. So it's purely context dependent.
You're insisting that I'm alone in my opinion that the Modern Buckle is feminine, hence the poll.
Now you're back to thinness. Looks to be about the same as the classic buckle. Classic buckle must be feminine too.
Perhaps we should compare the thickness of all bands and proclaim the thinnest bands as feminine.
I insisted that I felt the modern buckle was neutral, and you decided to reply to me. Apparently you had an issue with my view, and you tried debating the colors, but that didn't work, so now you want to talk about buckle size.
I insisted that you are speaking for nobody other than yourself, and unless the whole forum has access to your account, I'm 100% correct. I also said I didn't care what anybody else thinks about it. You seem to be the one that is hung up on that.
Why is it difficult for you to accept that there are people who see things differently than yourself? You are trying to change what I think, but all you have done is make your stance harder for me to adopt by showing me your reasoning is too weak for me =/
Now you're back to thinness. Looks to be about the same as the classic buckle. Classic buckle must be feminine too.
Nope, you're dead wrong. Looks like you're basing your observations only on photos, but if you actually compare them in person, the band portion of the Modern Buckle is indeed significantly thinner than that of the Classic Buckle. A number of members have attested to this (including Arran below). By the way, my wife has the Modern Buckle so I have access to both buckles.
Man here. I would have no problem wearing the modern buckle bands. While I understand that many designers have used large buckles on their designs marketed towards women, I actually quite like the way the Apple interpretation looks. Unfortunately, they do not fit me. My daughter has the brown modern buckle for her 38mm watch and the band even at its largest notch is too tight to be comfortable. And on top of that, I have 42mm watches and there's no 42mm version of the band as you all know.
Easier said than done. I bet you're envisioning the buckle remaining the same size but in 42mm, but no, the buckle itself would be proportionally larger in 42mm, even larger than when you tried on your daughter's band. So far, we've yet to hear from any male MR members who admit to owning and wearing the Modern Buckle and it's for a good reason. I've said it before and I'll say it again: If Apple wanted to make the Modern Buckle gender neutral, they would have made the buckle smaller and squared off the design a bit. Googling the Modern Buckle brings up a bunch of blogs that acknowledge it's intended for women, such as this one:
"The fun-to-use buckle system will make men jealous of this female focused Modern Buckle, but the style is a bit more decidedly feminine overall. Stuff like this should also make the traditional watch industry a bit jealous, given the very slick visual look and engineering. This is perhaps the most formal and elegant of the bands for women, and is a logical "step up" from the more basic Apple Watch Classic Buckle if something more colorful and interesting is needed. This is also a premium option, given that compared to the $49 - $149 prices of the other Apple Watch straps, the Apple Watch Modern Buckle is $249. Consider this the "lifestyle" strap for women who want their Apple Watch to look classy."