"Genius" says 110C CPU Temp is "Irrelevant."

Discussion in 'MacBook Pro' started by johnclevenger, Jul 4, 2010.

  1. johnclevenger macrumors newbie

    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2009
    #1
    I took my 15.4 inch late 2008 2.53GHz MBP to the Genius bar today. Actually, I took it in last week as well. Under stress (Prime95), my CPU will shoot up to about 110C. The fans will stay at 2000rpm for a bit (5-10 minutes) before they ramp up. Once they kick in, they'll slowly speed up until eventually maxing out at 6000rpm. My CPU will then stabilize at about 98C-105C, depending on circumstance.

    When I took the MBP in last week, the Genius didn't bat an eye when I told him this. I asked if he wanted me to demonstrate, and he didn't. I showed him a screenshot. He said that the computer will shut down when it reaches an unsafe temp, so not to worry about it. He also expressed skepticism about the "third party" temp monitoring software (iStat Pro), and told me that he gets at least "3 people a week" complaining about heat. They check their notebooks in, he said, and never find anything wrong. He was hinting that leaving the computer with him wouldn't me anywhere, and he turned out to be right. They ran diagnostics on it, and couldn't replicate the problem. I told them I could replicate it for them, and he suggested I make another appointment.

    Today, I walk into the bar and explain my problem to another Genius. I told him that the thermal spec (tjmax) for the chip (T9400) is 105C. Of course, this is the maximum safe operating temperature per Intel's specs. Once the CPU reaches these temps, the chip will begin throttling itself in order to reduce its temp. I fire up 2 "third party" temp monitoring programs, and 1 CPU frequency monitoring program. I start Prime95 and, after a few minutes, the temp on both of the monitoring programs reaches 110C. I show the Genius that the CPU is throttling down to 1.6 GHz, indicating that the temps are reaching the tjmax. The Genius retreats into the back room to get his buddy, "who knows about this stuff."

    Genius number 3 emerges and I get him up to speed. I tell him that the tjmax is 105C and he says "Who told you that?" "Intel," I responded. He asks where I saw it online, and I show him the Intel datasheet I preemptively downloaded the night before. He, again, repeated the "It will shut itself down if the temp is unsafe line." I told him that the shutdown temp is about 125C, which is way above the tjmax. He didn't know what a tjmax was, and thus didn't really understand what it meant. He also expressed skepticism about the monitoring applications I had. I showed him that the CPU was throttling down to 1.6GHZ, which independently shows the tjmax is being reached. He said they could check the MBP in and run diagnostics on it, but that they'll just use the same diagnostics they used last time (which didn't find any problem). I asked him if the 110C temps indicated to him that there might be a problem, and he said they were irrelevant because they weren't the official Apple diagnostics. Again, I pointed to the throttling as evidence and he said Intel CPUs throttle "all the time," and that such behavior is normal. Of course, I said, the CPU throttles when it's not being used in order to save power, and it throttles when it gets too hot. It shouldn't, I insisted, be reaching such a temp with normal use. I told him I'd paid for a 2.53GHz CPU, and didn't want it downclocking itself whenever I try to convert a video or something. He, again, said this was normal operation. I told him it wasn't.

    We argued, politely, for awhile. He suggested that, because I have 1.5 years left on my AppleCare, that I ought to try to burn the processor out in that time. If there's a problem, he said, it'll manifest itself as a component malfunction. In effect, he said that he didn't want to proceed with any repairs unless there was a component malfunction detectable by Apple's diagnostic software. Again, I told him that Intel's specs indicate that the current performance is liable to degrade performance and reduce lifespan. He said that Apple doesn't necessarily follow Intel's specs, and effectively dismissed Intel's guidelines.

    Eventually, I told him that I wasn't looking for a replacement, I just wanted them to replace the thermal paste and reseat the heatsink. The thermal sensor which controls the fans is on the heatsink, and if the heatsink isn't seated properly (or if the paste is misapplied), then the heatsink temp will lag behind the CPU temp, and the fans won't ramp up fast enough. He agreed, probably just to placate me. On the paperwork I received, it said that he visually saw the temp readouts, but that Apple has no internal support document indicating this is a problem. This, I think, is the larger problem here. Apple trains their techs to believe that all temperatures below the CPU shutdown temp are safe. This, obviously, is not true. If reapplying the paste and re-seating the sink doesn't work, I'll have to do a bit more work in educating the Genuii.
     
  2. JacaByte macrumors 6502

    Joined:
    Dec 26, 2009
    #2
    /thread

    Everything you say is 100% accurate; the Apple specs for their notebook processors is 105ºC, Intel's tjmax spec for the processors they sell to Apple is 125ºC (though I do recall that the tjmax for the 2008 Macbook is 130ºC) and qualitative evidence suggests that the smc throttles fan speeds based on heat sink temperatures and not core temperatures. Intel's processors throttle themselves down to minimum clock speeds after reaching 105ºC ±5ºC (variance in reported temp vs. actual temp at hardware level) and will perform a hard shutdown at 125ºC.

    All of the above are good rules for operation assuming that heat is transferred from the processor dies to the heat sinks without trapping any heat, which is not the case. I've observed differences in temperature in excess of 15ºC on my 15" MBP between the CPU and the heat sink and 5ºC between the GPU and the heat sink. I've seen reports of differences in excess of 30ºC. That is indicative of improperly applied thermal paste (or just cheap paste) and seems to be a rampant problem with all of Apple's Intel powered hardware.

    So, the way I see you have two options; hope those geniuses get a clue and reapply the thermal paste (properly, of course, but of this you have no guarantee), or replace the paste yourself with some Arctic Silver and/or have a tech savvy friend help you. There's really not much you can do.
     
  3. iLog.Genius macrumors 601

    iLog.Genius

    Joined:
    Feb 24, 2009
    Location:
    Toronto, Ontario
    #3
    Does the CPU temp actually get that high under normal usage? If you're stressing it just to see what temperatures you get and to see how the computer reacts, then it kind of is irrelevant.

    If the Genius Bar ran diagnostics and nothing came up flagged as being faulty, I wouldn't worry too much thinking there might be a hardware problem. There are many users on here who have the same concern but the computer will shut itself down if the temperatures get too high or past normal operating temperatures so anything below this is technically safe and it's something you shouldn't worry about.

    If you have had no problems with normal usage but are still concerned about heat issues, try downloading a fan control software. It seems like you're worried about the fans not spinning up. If they don't spin up at all to cool things down, then you have reason to be concerned but since they do, there is nothing to be worried about.

    You can try again with another Genius Bar but right now, there's nothing wrong with your computer or anything that indicates there is a problem with the sensor or thermal paste for the Genius to actually do anything about it.
     
  4. saxon48 macrumors 6502a

    saxon48

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    Jun 14, 2010
    Location:
    Barad-dûr
    #4
    The most app-intensive stuff I've done on my MBP has only pushed it up to 90C. Go with smcfancontrol, it's an excellent little app to help keep your Mac cooler.
     
  5. johnclevenger thread starter macrumors newbie

    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2009
    #5
    Wait, are you saying that the tjmax is 125C? I have the Intel documents which say in multiple places that the tjmax for my processor (T9400) is 105C, and that the shutdown temp is about 125C. Plus, the throttling occurs, as you say, at 105C, which happens at the tjmax (which, again, is the maximum safe operating temp).

    Other than that, I appreciate the advice. As I've got 1.5 years left on my AppleCare, I'm loathe to mess with it (and I've built 25+ computers). Even worse, as I've seen before (replacing HD and opening it up to blow out dust), some of the screws on my MBP are so tight that they're easily stripped. Really, I don't know what the hell they did at the factory, but the screws are damn near impossible to remove.

    The temps _do_ get just about that high with normal use. Encoding video causes the temps to rise above 105C for a period of time. This means, first, that my CPU is liable to damage and, second, that the CPU is being throttled down to 1.6GHz. This isn't acceptable. I'm effectively doing intensive tasks at a much lower speed because the thermal management is broken and the CPU is concerned about causing eminent damage. How is it that you find this acceptable and not worrisome?

    Thanks for the suggestion, I've been using fan control, but this isn't an acceptable solution (well, it'll have to be acceptable if Apple continues to shirk me). Something is just plain wrong here, and I shouldn't have to run the hell out of my fans to compensate. Moreover, I'm almost appalled that Apple is training its employees to deny a thermal problem unless and until the CPU is literally shutting itself down because of eminent damage.
     
  6. magamo macrumors 6502

    Joined:
    Apr 6, 2009
    #6
    I'm no tech savvy, and just believe what you wrote is true. But what I thought after reading your post is that the cost to educate tech employees to the extent that they can understand this level of thing would be unreasonably high; they'd have to deal with not only this particular CPU heat problem but also every kind of problem related to parts they use for at least their current products plus recent past products. The cost it would take to develop a systematic way to detect problems that only affect few customers would be also quite high.

    It seems like you have deeper knowledge of computers than most of us and are using your laptop extensively in a way ordinary customers wouldn't. And if my guess is right, satisfying rare customers like you 100% would result in much higher price while most users won't benefit from getting such carefully manufactured laptops and extremely sophisticated customer support.

    Maybe you might want to get a more professional personal computer/workstation than a run-of-the-mill consumer/prosumer laptop.
     
  7. johnclevenger thread starter macrumors newbie

    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2009
    #7
    Yes and no. I've spent a lot of time around computers, and worked doing ITish stuff for a few years. On the other hand, I only know this very specific information about my CPU because I realized there was something wrong with my MBP's thermal management. I knew enough to know that 110C is unacceptable, and simply researched from there. I absolutely don't expect those who haven't had a problem like mine to have this level of information. However, I _do_ expect Apple techs to know is what an appropriate thermal solution looks like (or at least what an inappropriate thermal solution looks like). I almost can't believe that Apple is training them to deny service unless there is a component malfunction. In this case, the temps aren't high enough to cause the CPU to melt, but they are high enough to degrade performance and reduce lifespan. Of course, those things probably won't manifest themselves until my after my AppleCare is up...

    And it's not like what I'm doing with the machine is too intensive for it. Maxing out the CPU happens more than you'd think. Try watching a couple of flash videos while converting a DVD. The problem is that my machine's cooling system isn't doing its job well enough. Most MacBooks I've seen have appropriately cooling. While in the store I ran the CPU test I've been using on a display MBP. It never got above 96C, and this temp was before the fans ramped all the way up. This is completely acceptable. ~10 below max temp is good. Mine, doing the same task, gets up to 110C and stays there for a long time. After the fans ramp up, it _stabilizes_ at 98C-105C. This is not acceptable, and it doesn't take a genius, forgive the pun, to realize this.
     
  8. DoFoT9 macrumors P6

    DoFoT9

    Joined:
    Jun 11, 2007
    Location:
    Singapore
    #8
    my god. this is why i detested apple not hiring me, their employees know ***** ALL about the hardware that they sell! it is COMPLETELY RIDICULOUS.

    sorry, it just makes me so angry.

    for some good (and bad) reading, please see here. the user of that thread EVENTUALLY got a new machine, after a few months. it might be worth you picking a route and staying to it (i.e. attempting to get a new machine, or attempting to burn it out).

    im so angry right now. how is 110°C acceptable? thats so ******** stupid.
     
  9. gnasher729 macrumors P6

    gnasher729

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2005
    #9
    So the OP uses software that serves no other purpose than using up the maximum amount of power. As a result, the CPU gets hot, the fan runs at full speed, but stays within specs. A third party product of unknown reliability reports a temperature that is high but within specs, and the customer complains.

    So what? The Genius told him exactly what he should have told him: That everything is fine, within specs, you can't damage the Mac that way, and third party temperature display is unreliable. Maybe he said it because that's what they told him in his training and he hasn't got any clue. So what would you have said? Two possibilities: You'd have said _exactly_ the same, even though you believed it is wrong, or you would have said your version. In which case you cannot be given the job.
     
  10. DoFoT9 macrumors P6

    DoFoT9

    Joined:
    Jun 11, 2007
    Location:
    Singapore
    #10
    come back once your computer hits those temperatures, burns your legs, will eventually damage the battery, etc and say you dont agree with me.

    and what are you going on about 3rd party software? those are real world temperatures! handbrake/FCP etc WILL use up 100% CPU, resulting in said temps.

    and hey, you dont know me. keep your rude remarks to yourself.
     
  11. chrono1081 macrumors 604

    chrono1081

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2008
    Location:
    Isla Nublar
    #11
    It is actually pretty irrelevant, sorry OP.

    The genius is right, you will notice freeze ups first, then shutdowns. I've gotten my old MBP temps much higher because of leaving it on a blanket. I'd lift it off the blanket once I got freeze ups for a few minutes and then right back on the blanket.

    @DoFot9: ? What are you so angry about? No need to get mad over an electronic item. What the genius told him was right, its not some big conspiracy/coverup.
     
  12. DoFoT9 macrumors P6

    DoFoT9

    Joined:
    Jun 11, 2007
    Location:
    Singapore
    #12
    heh. no problem. its not my fault that apple agrees with my view point (not that they agree with it of course). read my link from a few posts up, they eventually changed the machine out for a new one, admitting that the machine was defective after multiple changes to the hardware etc.

    the genius told him what he thought was right, as thats what he has been taught (or lack there of), so you are right in some respects. but seriously, would you be happy with a computer (esp laptop) that you were unable to rest on your lap?
     
  13. johnclevenger thread starter macrumors newbie

    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2009
    #13
    The OP used this software to ... stress test his computer. He did this because he noticed that software he used (like Handbrake) caused his CPU to exceed its thermal specs. The OP also used 3 different 3rd party monitoring programs to verify the excessive temps and cross-verified them with another program which showed that the CPU began throttling once it passed its thermal specs.

    Once again, the CPU does _not_ stay within its specs. The tjmax for the processor is 105C. The processor maxes at 110C, staying there for quite some time. Eventually, the processor will stabilize at or just below 105C. Intel is quite clear that such behavior is not appropriate.

    So we've got a few possibilities here:

    1: The CPU diode is reporting the wrong temp and the processor is throttling itself because it thinks (wrongly) that its getting too hot. We have almost no reason to think this is the case.

    2. Intel is wrong that such temps are dangerous, and we should trust the Genuii instead. Again, there's little reason to believe this. Intel manufactures the chips; they ought to know. Furthermore, Intel's specs are built into the chip, which is to say that chip starts throttling when Intel thinks it should, not when the Genuii think so.

    3. Intel is right and there's something faulty with my computer's thermal solution. This is supported by the fact that almost no other MacBooks (and other notebooks) behave in this way. This has the unfortunate consequence of Apple's techs being insufficiently trained. Considering they all seem to think that unsafe temps are only those which cause the CPU to literally shut itself down to avoid eminent damage, this seems the most reasonable option.

    The Genius is right that component failure is the usually the most obvious evidence of damage. Of course, this is a little like saying that you can eat all the saturated fat you want as long as you don't have a heart attack. The point here is that Intel has guidelines for avoiding performance degradation and lifespan shortening which are being disregarded; that the problem only exists when its worst case scenario is manifested. Of course, this is no skin off Apple's back, because the problem probably won't manifest until after my AppleCare has expired.

    Even so, the fact that my CPU gets so hot that it downclocks itself from 2.53GHz to 1.6GHz should indicate that something is wrong. That in itself, I would argue, is more than just a symptom of a problem, it's a problem.

    Yeah I read that thread the other day. It gave me a bit of hope that, if I was persistent, Apple would take care of things. The Genius agreed to reapply the thermal paste, so I'm hoping that fixes it. If not, I'll be calling Apple and hashing it out with a CSR.

    The thing is that Apple really doesn't have a legitimate position. If your thermal policy is to wait for the components to shut down because they're overheating and waiting for component failure, you've got no thermal policy at all. Everything is normal behavior unless and until something breaks.
     
  14. magamo macrumors 6502

    Joined:
    Apr 6, 2009
    #14
    OMG. There are so many things in the thread.

    So if mine had the same issue as OP's, I wouldn't notice. And because it seems it's not rare to max out a CPU even for the average user, most likely I'd just think mine died a little earlier than the average after years of use and simply move on without knowing why that happened...

    Maybe Apple's practice is all right in that a MBP most likely lasts long enough for the main target customers even if Geniuses failed to detect the issue, and if it doesn't, they'll fix/replace it as long as it's under warranty. But OP's posts and the linked thread made me wonder if a Genius can handle the same issue properly for iMacs and Mac Pros where users more likely max out CPUs for their everyday uses.

    And it does seem like this issue should be easily dealt with even in the case of MB/MBP...
     
  15. DoFoT9 macrumors P6

    DoFoT9

    Joined:
    Jun 11, 2007
    Location:
    Singapore
    #15
    thats generally how apple works. you have to prove them wrong otherwise they are right, which i guess is the standard point for all companies however in the past apple has always taken the machine back if you were unsatisfied with it. that was always part of the investment that you paid for initially - reliable customer satisfaction! but ah well. i guess not these days

    i can see your point, i cant see that many users watching their CPU temps like a hawk - its only a small percentage that would. i believe that there would be quite a reasonable amount of users who utilise a large % of the CPU. i heavily use mine and i am only a prosumer, even watching HD youtube vids chews through CPU usage these days, and LOTS of people watch them :rolleyes:

    speaking from an iMac point of view, my i7 never runs above 65°C - under 800% CPU usage. i think that is a reasonable load temp. the mac pros are roughly around that.

    these +80°C temps only appear for the Mac laptops, my MBP CoreDuo idles at 75°C and under load with fans at ~4k rpm it will sit at 80°C.

    what i feel is the biggest indicator that of all the PC "fanbois" i have come across, they all argue that macs over heat.
     
  16. ouimetnick macrumors 68020

    ouimetnick

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2008
    Location:
    Beverly, Massachusetts
    #16
    You could also apply some high quality thermal paste your self.
     
  17. Mord macrumors G4

    Mord

    Joined:
    Aug 24, 2003
    Location:
    UK
    #17
    I applied some arctic silver 5 to my old white macbook myself and it worked perfectly, dropped temps by ~10 degrees.

    My current 15" MBP is pretty perfect though, it idles at 45 or so and maxes out at 95 when at full load which is fine by me.
     
  18. Eidorian macrumors Penryn

    Eidorian

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    Mar 23, 2005
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    Indianapolis
  19. miles01110 macrumors Core

    miles01110

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2006
    Location:
    The Ivory Tower (I'm not coming down)
    #19
    Yep. There's nothing surprising (at all) about how the Genius reacted.

    If your computer is hot, you should not be using it on your lap.

    http://support.apple.com/kb/HT1778

    If your battery's capacity falls below the standard 80%/1000 cycles (for the internal batteries), you get a replacement. Not really sure what you're trying to prove here.

    Handbrake is 3rd party software and will fall under the same category as the stress tester. FCP...sure.

    I'm not necessarily disagreeing with you, but you seem to be missing the fact that you can wave as many third-party specs in front of an Apple employee as you want to. It's not going to matter.

    Imagine if Apple gave away free replacements for everyone that walked in and started reciting stats from the Acme Temperature Monitor they just downloaded off of sourceforge. Do you think that's a good way to do business? You seem like a reasonably intelligent person, so I think statements like the above are more due to your frustration with your situation rather than grounded in logic.
     
  20. NStocks macrumors 65816

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2008
    Location:
    England
    #20
    Hi,

    I'm the author of the "My Macbook Pro reached 106C" thread.

    You seem to be experiencing the same problems I was with my 2009 Unibody...

    I sent it to an apple authorised service provider who inspected it and returned it saying there was no fault. A few days later I sent it in again, again they said there was no fault. This was about 3 weeks after I called Applecare who promised me it won't take more than 2 weeks. After around 4 hours in 2 days on the phone with apple, they agreed they would replace the logic board.

    Apple sent my Mac to a different service provider, presumably because the other one was talking crap all the time, blaming it on software that had been downloaded through the internet (official website, educational licsense!, in this day and age he said that you shouldn't download software through the internet as it may be 'corrupt' :rolleyes: , like me, apple disagreed with that statement.)

    4-5 weeks later after I called AppleCare, my Mac came back with a 'new' logic board, only to find the temps stayed at 101C and the fans sill did not exceed 3000RPM evan after 20 mins at 101C, plus cosmetic damage to the case.

    Another 2-3 days Apple called me after I spoke to the Service provider to find out why it was still so hot. Apple finally agreed to replace it. 6 weeks and 2 days after I originally sent in my faulty Mac, I received a replacement (from china) even though I was told I would receive it 3 days after sending it back to Apple (which would have meant 5 weeks after I originally sent it away to be repaired).

    I've tried to summarise a 10 page long thread into a few paragraphs. If you are having problems with your Mac, or it's not performing correctly the you have the right to be concerned. My mac was under 11 months old and it was simply not acceptable. Partly the reason why Apple gave me a new Mac was because of the 'down time' it took for a resolution and the extremely poor service I received from Apple and their service providers...( I went through 3 Customer relations reps, 4 technical supervisors at 2 'Service' providers.

    I wasn't getting anywhere with my Mac, even after 4 weeks, so other member on the forum suggested I break it myself. I seriously considered it but gladly that didn't need to happen. What I'm saying is that if your Mac passes the Apple tests, and your computer still doesn't perform correctly, you may want to 'force' it to 'break' so that Apple get the message that you don't want a faulty Mac. Again, this shouldn't happen and unless your Mac isn't performing correctly should you think about this. My Mac overheated and crashed several times a day along with a few other things, not just the extreme temperature. I got the same story about the 3rd party temperature monitor but the AASP also confirmed it was reaching 106C - 111C when running a graphically intense program.

    Oh and my new Mac have only reached 60C when running the same program with the same file. (running 10.6.3 after reading the stories on this forum about i7/i5 crashing etc.)
     
  21. Tim018 macrumors regular

    Joined:
    May 31, 2009
    #21
    to me it sounds like a two way problem. Yes, apple's cooling systems could be better, but the heatsink is only half the cooling, the other half can be user controlled.

    i found that when i do alot of heavy photoshop work under the 9600m card the temps got up to 80c no time. i once started a handbrake conversion and the temps shot up to 108c. the solution is smc fan control. install it and BEFORE you start your cpu intensive process, ramp up the fans to 4000, 5000, or whatever you deem fit, then run your conversion/editing. If i start the fans up before i start my photoshop work it'll never go above 60c. A handbrake conversion will hover around 85c with the fans ramped up before hand, much better than 108c.

    I've come to the conclusion that apple's fan control on this computer is next to retarded and is controlled by monkeys. Thats why i usually set the fans myself. After you put your own presets in, it takes two clicks to change the speed to whatever you want. yes, i think apple could have done a better job creating a better cooled computer under 100% cpu, but then it would have looked something like this...weighing in at 9lbs...
     

    Attached Files:

  22. johnclevenger thread starter macrumors newbie

    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2009
    #22
    Yeah, that's the larger problem here. I have no idea no widespread this problem is, though this link indicates it's not overly rare. Most people, though, won't ever notice anything other than their case getting hot. If they do bring it in to Apple, they're told that it's completely fine. When something finally breaks 3 or 4 years down the road, Apple's long since off the hook for most cases because their standard warranty is only 1 year.

    Of course, I don't plan on keeping this computer forever. My wife is actually going to get it soon (when I buy another MBP...), and she'll probably keep it another 3 years or so. But at that time I sure as hell want a functioning computer that I can sell to someone for a reasonable amount. And I surely don't want the thing to die on the person I sell it to a year or so after they get it.

    I'd be happy with 80C at load, though 75C at idle is way too high. It really ought to be below 65C, given non-ridiculous ambient temps. In any case, these temps are well within Intel's specs for safe operation.

    I've considered it, but I really don't want to void my warranty. I was able to convince the guy to reapply the paste, so hopefully the Apple stores use something better than the factories </hopefulness>.

    How many different temp monitoring programs would I need to convince you? I've used 3 different ones. Temperature monitoring, iStat Pro, and Hardware monitoring. They all do the same thing, which is read the temp off the CPU diode, and they all report the same temps. I also use coolbookcontroller to monitor the CPU frequency. Intel states that once the CPU reaches 105C, it will begin throttling and, lo and behold, when these 3 programs indicate that the temp exceeds 105C, coolbookcontroller indicates that the CPU begins throttling down to 1.6 GHz.

    Of course, if you insist that all software not written by Apple is faulty, this will mean nothing to you, but to people who are actually interested in diagnoses, they indicate something. Either the diode on the CPU is faulty, or the CPU's temps are getting too high.

    Furthermore, I'm not looking for a replacement, I'm looking for a solution. If reapplying the thermal paste solves the problem, excellent.

    I've read your thread and I'm glad that Apple finally made things right. I'm also curious if the AASP that detected your problem used different diagnostic software than Apple uses. I don't really think you'd know the answer, but I unsure of what's going on. Why can't Apple replicate the problem? I can replicate it every time. Also, it seems like your first AASP didn't detect the problem, did they?

    I think Apple's fan control program is more than adequate assuming that heat is transferring from the CPU to the heatsink effectively. The sensor which controls the fans, as far as I can tell, is on the heatsink. Thus, if the heatsink isn't functioning appropriately (because it's broken or misapplied), then the fan control system will think the CPU temp is lower than it actually is and the fans won't ramp up appropriately.
     
  23. FnuGk macrumors regular

    Joined:
    Aug 6, 2009
    #23
    i have only read the op so i dont know if someone else have mentioned it but here it goes.

    it suggest you try booting into windows where you download hwMonitor
    http://www.cpuid.com/softwares/hwmonitor.html

    cpu-z
    http://www.cpuid.com/softwares/cpu-z.html

    and finally IntelBurnTest
    http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?t=197835

    use hwmonitor to check the temps and cpu-z to check if the cpu throttles while you run the IntelBurnTest.

    in my experiance my cpu gets up to 20 degrees hotter when i run the IntelBurnTest instead of prime so if you are getting 110 degrees with prime you should hit the shutdown point with the IntelBurnTest
     
  24. NStocks macrumors 65816

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2008
    Location:
    England
    #24
    They knew that there was heat issues and told Apple but because it was 'within spec' the didn't do anything about it. The said that unless the 'Apple Stress Test' shows failure, they can't replace a part. I sent it in twice because the problems were still there, furthermore they said that they couldn't replicate the system crashes ' each time ' which led them to believe it wasn't crashing at all...

    Apparently, all AASP use the same tests issued by Apple.The first SP confirmed the heat issues but told Apple not to worry basically, whilst the second SP said the temps are very extreme and should never be seen:rolleyes: Two completely opposing opinions, but the 2nd SP replaced the Logic board as Apple instructed them to (after 2 inspections from the first SP)
     
  25. tflournoy95 macrumors 6502

    Joined:
    Sep 21, 2009
    #25
    my solution: buy computers at bestbuy with accident protection. if it has a problem and they wont replace it, take it home and take a hammer to it and some soda on the keyboard. then take it to a different best buy and be like "oops"
     

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