Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.
The day Apple announces unlocked iPhones for all carriers is the day jailbreaking on the iPhone becomes very well endangered.

I'll have to disagree with that bro.
The cydia store has made tons of money cause people like to modify their stock phone and install tons of packages, addons, tweaks, workarounds etc....
I doubt that if the iphone is sold unlocked in the US that will change. Cause the rest of the world already sells unlocked iphones.
Hope the JB scene will live on cause without it the iphone will never be the same to me.
 
I'll have to disagree with that bro.
The cydia store has made tons of money cause people like to modify their stock phone and install tons of packages, addons, tweaks, workarounds etc....
I doubt that if the iphone is sold unlocked in the US that will change. Cause the rest of the world already sells unlocked iphones.
Hope the JB scene will live on cause without it the iphone will never be the same to me.

See that's what I also thought when I made that post, but then I realized. The DMCA is only for the US, where the iPhone is always sold unlocked.
 
From Engaget & Scribd:


Sony follows up, officially sues Geohot and fail0verflow over PS3 jailbreak


We figured Sony would follow up last night's temporary restraining order against Geohot and fail0verflow for distribution of the PS3 jailbreak with a copyright infringement lawsuit, and well, here it is. It's actually pretty straightforward, as far as these things go -- Sony alleges that George Hotz, Hector Martin Cantero, Sven Peter, and the rest of fail0verflow are:
Violating §1201 of the Digital Millennium Copyright Act, which forbids bypassing access control measures;
Violating the federal Computer Fraud and Abuse Act, which forbids accessing computers without authorization;
Guilty of contributory copyright infringement for encouraging and helping others to crack PS3s as well;
Violating the California Computer Crime Law, which is the state computer fraud act (think of this as a backup fraud claim);
Violating the PlayStation Network's Terms of Service (which feels meaningless, really);
Interfering with Sony's relationships with other PSN customers (also meaningless);
Trespassing on Sony's ownership right to the PS3 (this one feels weak) and;
Misappropriating Sony's intellectual property (another weak argument, but there in case the copyright argument fails).
Sony's asking the court to forbid Geohot and fail0verflow from distributing the jailbreak and turn over all computer hardware and software that contain the jailbreak code, as well as unspecified damages and attorneys' fees. Yep, these boys done got sued -- and we're sure there'll be some serious fireworks once they lawyer up and fight right back.
 
That wasn't always the case. Bootloaders and such never were a concern until Pwnage tool came around. Before that is was 1.0.x methods to jailbreak. Command line iUnlock, not to mention the whole TIFF exploit via Safari, then the 1.1.2 exploit and finally the NateTrue 1.1.3 exploit.

All these exploits, whether the early ones or the later ones basically worked the same. Making a change in Apple-owned "intellectual property", ie: hacking something on the filesystem to allow changes to be made, which resulted in a derivative work. That's the reason why jailbreaking was even possibly considered illegal. So yes, you just made my point.
 
So what would that lawsuit accomplish anyway?
The code and JB is out and has been all over the internet anyway.
Anyone can use it and do whatever they want with it.
Is that to scare off people or have the whole PS3 hacking scene go underground and stay below the radar. Anyone can still release packages to bypass security and install their own code on the PS3.
What is for Sony to gain in this beside look bad in public?
 
All these exploits, whether the early ones or the later ones basically worked the same. Making a change in Apple-owned "intellectual property", ie: hacking something on the filesystem to allow changes to be made, which resulted in a derivative work. That's the reason why jailbreaking was even possibly considered illegal. So yes, you just made my point.

No they don't. The TIFF exploit did not use Apple code at all, not even the 1.1.2 exploit. Hell, the 1.0.x exploits where done like with a ZiPhone approach (albeit Dev Team made and sanctioned)
 
jav6454 said:
No they don't. The TIFF exploit did not use Apple code at all, not even the 1.1.2 exploit. Hell, the 1.0.x exploits where done like with a ZiPhone approach (albeit Dev Team made and sanctioned)

And what do you think the exploit did after it ran? It had to do something useful, like make permanent changes to the filesystem, plus, what do you think all those hacks a person install via Cydia do? Bah, done feeding the trolls..

So what would that lawsuit accomplish anyway?
The code and JB is out and has been all over the internet anyway.
Anyone can use it and do whatever they want with it.
Is that to scare off people or have the whole PS3 hacking scene go underground and stay below the radar. Anyone can still release packages to bypass security and install their own code on the PS3.
What is for Sony to gain in this beside look bad in public?


DeCSS comes to mind here.. I don't think anything actually came from that other than that to make the DVD Jon guy a virtual legend.
 
Last edited:
So what would that lawsuit accomplish anyway?
The code and JB is out and has been all over the internet anyway.
Anyone can use it and do whatever they want with it.
Is that to scare off people or have the whole PS3 hacking scene go underground and stay below the radar. Anyone can still release packages to bypass security and install their own code on the PS3.
What is for Sony to gain in this beside look bad in public?

I agree that Sony is looking really bad right now. The public opinion is not with them at all.
 
I agree that Sony is looking really bad right now. The public opinion is not with them at all.

The public's might not, but a courts will be considering the strongest argument Sony is presenting is software piracy which isn't hard to prove. With that, they have the court ay 80% won over.

Like I said, we might not like it, but that is how things are going to go down. He will loose. If he doesn't I will be *very* surprised.
 
I agree that Sony is looking really bad right now. The public opinion is not with them at all.

DeCSS comes to mind here.. I don't think anything actually came from that other than that to make the DVD Jon guy a virtual legend.

Interesting move but I dont know.
Why not move on and let it go like Microsoft did with the Xbox?
You hack your device to play backups then no online gaming thats all. I bet more people would rather be able to play online than bother. What good is Call of Duty and other games if you cant play with friends or against others?
You cant try to sue every single hacker out there that will try to bypass your security IMO.
 
Ok, so everyone says I'm wrong, here I'll prove you all wrong.

The jailbreak on the iPhone itself is protected and always has been thanks to the little law exception called DMCA, with explicit emphasis on this section:



This is the main reason why Apple can't go against the Dev Team or any other team. Unlocking and the road to achieving the unlock is protected by law.

Sorry to tell you but you're not proving anyone wrong. Maybe you should read the entire ruling before posting acting like you know something. "Little law exception called DMCA", lol clueless.

Part (2)

(2) Computer programs that enable wireless telephone handsets to execute software applications, where circumvention is accomplished for the sole purpose of enabling interoperability of such applications, when they have been lawfully obtained, with computer programs on the telephone handset.

I suggest you read all of section B.

Under the first factor in Section 107,
it appears fair to say that the purpose
and character of the modification of the
operating system is to engage in a
private, noncommercial use intended to
add functionality to a device owned by
the person making the modification,
albeit beyond what Apple has
determined to be acceptable. The user is
not engaging in any commercial
exploitation of the firmware, at least not
when the jailbreaking is done for the
user’s own private use of the device.
The fact that the person engaging in
jailbreaking is doing so in order to use
Apple’s firmware on the device that it
was designed to operate, which the
jailbreaking user owns, and to use it for
precisely the purpose for which it was
designed (but for the fact that it has
been modified to run applications not
approved by Apple) favors a finding that
the purpose and character of the use is
innocuous at worst and beneficial at
best. Apple’s objections to the
installation and use of ‘‘unapproved’’
applications appears to have nothing to
do with its interests as the owner of
copyrights in the computer programs
embodied in the iPhone, and running
the unapproved applications has no
adverse effect on those interests. Rather,
Apple’s objections relate to its interests
as a manufacturer and distributor of a
device, the iPhone.
Moreover, Congress has determined
that reverse engineering for the purpose
of making computer programs
interoperable is desirable when certain
conditions are met, and has crafted a
specific exemption from Section
1201(a)’s prohibition on circumvention
in such cases. While an iPhone owner
who ‘‘jailbreaks’’ does not fall within the
four corners of the statutory exemption
in Section 1201(f), the fact that he or she
is engaging in jailbreaking in order to
make the iPhone’s firmware
interoperable with an application
specially created for the iPhone suggests
that the purpose and character of the
use are favored.
Turning to the second fair use factor,
it is customary for operating systems –
functional works – to enable third party
programs to interoperate with them. It
does not and should not infringe any of
the exclusive rights of the copyright
owner to run an application program on
a computer over the objections of the
owner of the copyright in the
computer’s operating system. Thus, if
Apple sought to restrict the computer
programs that could be run on its
computers, there would be no basis for
copyright law to assist Apple in
protecting its restrictive business model.
The second factor decisively favors a
finding of fair use.
Turning to the third factor, ‘‘the
amount and substantiality of the portion
used in relation to the copyrighted work
as a whole,’’ EFF admitted that because
the Apple firmware is necessary in
order to operate the iPhone, it is
necessary for individuals who jailbreak
their phones to reuse the vast majority
of the original firmware. However, the
amount of the copyrighted work
modified in a typical jailbreaking
scenario is fewer than 50 bytes of code
out of more than 8 million bytes, or
approximately 1/160,000 of the
copyrighted work as a whole. Where the
alleged infringement consists of the
making of an unauthorized derivative
work, and the only modifications are so
de minimis, the fact that iPhone users
are using almost the entire iPhone
firmware for the purpose for which it
was provided to them by Apple
undermines the significance of this
factor. While the third factor arguably
disfavors a fair use finding, the weight
to be given to it under the circumstances
is slight.

The public's might not, but a courts will be considering the strongest argument Sony is presenting is software piracy which isn't hard to prove. With that, they have the court ay 80% won over.

Like I said, we might not like it, but that is how things are going to go down. He will loose. If he doesn't I will be *very* surprised.

I think you might be surprised
 
The public's might not, but a courts will be considering the strongest argument Sony is presenting is software piracy which isn't hard to prove. With that, they have the court ay 80% won over.

Like I said, we might not like it, but that is how things are going to go down. He will loose. If he doesn't I will be *very* surprised.

I think Sony will lose. And yes to prove that its software piracy they will have to go deep into details of how his code works etc etc.

This case represents a lot more than just Sony vs geohot. This has everything to do with consumer rights, free-speech and empowering us as speakers, citizens, creators, and consumers.
 
Guys there's no point on arguing cause I dont think any of us are copyright Attorneys:)
Its very interesting to see how it plays out but IMO it wont do any good to Sony instead of wasting money on lawyers and looking like sore losers.
 
Guys there's no point on arguing cause I dont think any of us are copyright Attorneys:)
Its very interesting to see how it plays out but IMO it wont do any good to Sony instead of wasting money on lawyers and looking like sore losers.

I just think there is too much precedent here for Sony to actually win.


The DVD Key
The HDCP master key
Jailbreaking the iPhone

None of these have resulted in cases that have "stuck"
 
Guys there's no point on arguing cause I dont think any of us are copyright Attorneys:)
Its very interesting to see how it plays out but IMO it wont do any good to Sony instead of wasting money on lawyers and looking like sore losers.

Who's arguing? There was 6 provisions to that ruling and somechoose to only acknowledged one for the sole purpose of their discussion. I'll be surprised that point to the second ruling on the PS3. While the wording limits it to wireless telephone headsets it will be argued that it entirely pertains to consoles as well.
 
I think what interesting passed PS3 Jailbreaks resulted in no action from Sony even though most of those were geared much more for pirating. Hotz and fail0verflow are not interested in the Pirate route even though there is little doubt it would happen not from them. I find it interesting Sony jumped on them so fast. Right now the only thing you can do with the Jailbreak is run Hotz program that says

Geohot.jpg
 
If $ony were smart, they'd first offer George Hotz a job in R&D department and if he declined, then they could be sore losers and go after him. Either way though, this just makes the scene more determined to get 'er done :)
 
It's funny he hasn't had a twitter account since June of '10 but I saw a tweet from him the other day saying he didn't condone piracy. His attorney said as I did and I'm not sure why Sony filed it with mention to the TOS. While it deals with modding in passing as a rule of conduct, the System Software Licence Agreement would be where they have the most leverage.
 
In the iPhone's case, there is a reason to jailbreak, Unlocking. On the PS3, there is no true reason, but to pirate. Yes you could argue its to enable more productivity and to have more features, but still, the general usage of the jailbreak of the PS3 overall has been for worse not better.
Wrong. It allows you to backup your original $60 disk and keep the original safe. Just like with the Wii.
 
The way this is ruled on could set a dangerous precedent on all device "hacking" including the iPhone, please limit ignorant posts.

If you go back to post #62 you'll see that this case isn't going to have much/any effect on iphone jailbreaking. It's already been ruled on and probably will not change for some time. If anything if this case goes the way of the defendants it could lead to more aggressive iphone hacking. Many in the iphone JB community walk a fine line trying not to step on Apple's legal toes.
 
I was going to create a new thread but I'll put it here. Many have asked what this has to do with iphone JB and it doesn't. What it does have to deal with is the fact, that under law, the ipad, AppleTV and the ipod's fall under the same category of the PS3. The exemptions in the DMCA only covers wireless telephone headsets.

Computer programs that enable wireless telephone handsets to execute software applications, where circumvention is accomplished for the sole purpose of enabling interoperability of such applications, when they have been lawfully obtained, with computer programs on the telephone handset.

The iphone is exempt because of the above provision and the one dealing with unlocking, but If Sony wins this suit then Apple has precedent to fight jailbreaking on some level. While they can't do anything about the iphone they could put legal pressure on the DevTeam and the others as long as their tools support these other devices. The exemption rules are only updated every three years so until the wording is changed (the limitation to handsets) legal precedent is the only thing to fall back on.
 
Register on MacRumors! This sidebar will go away, and you'll see fewer ads.