German Court Strikes Down Sections of Apple's Privacy Policy

[antonis]

European parliament is directly elected. Council of Ministers use the same ministers serving in the national governments. European Council has the same heads of states that head the national governments. Which part of the rule making you cannot elect, as opposed to the national variety?

This is the procedure, indeed. But this is also the problem as it takes any real power from the votes of each country. If the people of a EU member country downvote their local party, this will only affect a small percent of the EU parliament while the country will still be binded to follow all the rulings and regulations voted by other country-members.

A wide globalization of what would anyone call a democracy, could turn it easily to a some-kind-of dictatorship, although I think that's a too strong word, to be fair.

 

[MH01]

Yeah, imagine if the world finds out about all their sins committed throughout history...

I would not be too concerned, most people on here would struggle to find Germany on a map, and learned about history via the Simpsons

 

[spicynujac]

Wow, so this is what it's like when a government actually advocates for its people's own privacy! Interesting. I am an American and can't remember the last time our government actually made a ruling against the powerful corporate interests and for the small guy. By the way thanks to the poster who shared https://www.eff.org/who-has-your-back-2013

And a huge thumbs down to all the American politicians who voted to legalize internet sales tax It may not become law yet though.

 

[MH01]

Wow, so this is what it's like when a government actually advocates for its people's own privacy! Interesting. I am an American and can't remember the last time our government actually made a ruling against the powerful corporate interests and for the small guy. By the way thanks to the poster who shared https://www.eff.org/who-has-your-back-2013

And a huge thumbs down to all the American politicians who voted to legalize internet sales tax It may not become law yet though.

Damn that link is very interesting. Thought Apple would be one of the better companies

I wonder how factual it is.

 

[0098386]

I agree with Germany.

 

[Ciclismo]

Not really. You didn't add 20% VAT. You didn't add in the cost of better consumer protection laws. And seriously, you can't buy things in Germany with US dollars.

Except at Burger King. At least the one on Monckebergstraße in Hamburg used to accept USD.

----------

Tearing apart, and revealing every data security weakness, especially of information systems released by the government "fingerprint in passports" "Electronic ID-Card" "DE-Mail" and such funny things that only "big brother" could have dreamed of...

Apparently we have the US to thank for the biometric passport requirements, as you must have such info on your passport now if you intend to travel to the US.

----------

Yeah, imagine if the world finds out about all their sins committed throughout history...

We quite openly and publicly hold memorial services to remember the victims; do Americans do the same regarding their internment camps?

 

[tatonka]

Nach Klage des Verbraucherzentrale Bundesverbands (vzbv) hat das Gericht acht vom IT-Unternehmen verwendete Vertragsklauseln für unwirksam erklärt.


Well, "erklaert" may not be the case with legal jargon in German.

Not sure what you are trying to say .. "für unwirksam erklärt" in this case means they declared the passages void, not that they explained them to somebody, is that what you meant?

 

[Boomhowler]

Actually they had to pay 145.000 € for copying info from unprotected WLAN's.

http://www.tagesschau.de/inland/googledatenschutzstrafe100.html

(translate it via >> Google XD)

Which is about two zero:s from being a relevant fine to Google. I really think that they should have payed more for snooping on peoples wifi..

Nevertheless, very good Germany! I hope this privacy-ruling will apply to the whole EU soon!

 

[gnasher729]

I think this is far more disturbing than anything related to Apple's privacy policy:

https://www.eff.org/who-has-your-back-2013

This list made me really disgusted with Apple. If the government wants access to my information, I should be notified. And no company should turn over my information without a warrant. Microsoft, Google, Facebook, Twitter, Dropbox, even Myspace (yes, they are still around...), score way better than Apple.

I sent this link to Tim Cook with a little note expressing my disappointment in Apple. I hope others do the same. This is shameful.

As usual, this list isn't based on what Apple is doing, it is based on what Apple is publicly declaring. The problem with this list is that for example Apple has no access to data that you have stored (anything you store in iCloud is encrypted in a way that makes it impossible for Apple to access), so if law enforcement agencies asked for data that you stored, Apple doesn't need any policy not to give out the data, they don't have to fight it in court, they just don't have access to that content.

And what other data has Apple stored about you? MacRumors has hundred times more (they could be asked to uncover my non-public identity, they could be asked to hand over all the posts I ever made, they could be asked to give information what posts I accessed). Apple doesn't have that kind of information; all they have is my purchase history like any other trader; they don't have sites like facebook or youtube that could have massive amounts of information about me. iCloud has my data in encrypted form. Amazon's cloud could have virtual machines (basically complete computers with whatever data I stored on them) that would need a lot more protection than whatever Apple has.

Remember when Greenpeace said how good HP was for promising to remove brominated flame retardants (BFRs) from their products within a few years, and Apple was evil for not making the same promise? And it turned out Apple had already done what HP was _promising_ to do eventually?

 

[theBB]

This is the procedure, indeed. But this is also the problem as it takes any real power from the votes of each country. If the people of a EU member country downvote their local party, this will only affect a small percent of the EU parliament while the country will still be binded to follow all the rulings and regulations voted by other country-members.

People of the world, disperse... One man, one vote, one country... Nobody should be forced to obey any rule that he does not like...

In all seriousness though, if a policy proposal cannot get enough votes from the parliamentarians and ministers representing the UK, Ireland, Benelux countries and Finland, there is a good chance that it was not a good idea in the first place.

 

[theBB]

anything you store in iCloud is encrypted in a way that makes it impossible for Apple to access

Source?

Any data where you can forget the password and ask the company to reset your password to regain access is also accessible by the company.

 

[Oletros]

As usual, this list isn't based on what Apple is doing, it is based on what Apple is publicly declaring. The problem with this list is that for example Apple has no access to data that you have stored (anything you store in iCloud is encrypted in a way that makes it impossible for Apple to access), so if law enforcement agencies asked for data that you stored, Apple doesn't need any policy not to give out the data, they don't have to fight it in court, they just don't have access to that content.

Any source for that? Because, apart that Mail data is not encrypted, iCloud term and services clearly states that Apple CAN give law enforcement agencies iCloud content:

Apple reserves the right to take steps Apple believes are reasonably necessary or appropriate to enforce and/or verify compliance with any part of this Agreement. You acknowledge and agree that Apple may, without liability to you, access, use, preserve and/or disclose your Account information and Content to law enforcement authorities, government officials, and/or a third party, as Apple believes is reasonably necessary or appropriate, if legally required to do so or if we have a good faith belief that such access, use, disclosure, or preservation is reasonably necessary to: (a) comply with legal process or request; (b) enforce this Agreement, including investigation of any potential violation thereof; (c) detect, prevent or otherwise address security, fraud or technical issues; or (d) protect the rights, property or safety of Apple, its users, a third party, or the public as required or permitted by law.

http://www.apple.com/legal/internet-services/icloud/en/terms.html

Source?

Any data where you can forget the password and ask the company to reset your password to regain access is also accessible by the company.

Exactly

 

[throttlemeister]

As usual, this list isn't based on what Apple is doing, it is based on what Apple is publicly declaring. The problem with this list is that for example Apple has no access to data that you have stored (anything you store in iCloud is encrypted in a way that makes it impossible for Apple to access), so if law enforcement agencies asked for data that you stored, Apple doesn't need any policy not to give out the data, they don't have to fight it in court, they just don't have access to that content.

In case you haven't noticed, Apple and every other company operating in the US is required by US law to be able to turn over any and all information stored on their systems from a user when requested by law enforcement. They do not even need a subpoena and they can prevent a company from notifying the users of such a request.

For those from the US ridiculing EU and German laws, perhaps you should take a better look at your own country. Any and all information you have stored online can be pulled from companies, your internet and phone traffic can be bugged, all without warrant and without means to defend yourself against it in court of law. You can be arrested and detained without due process and without legal representation, indefinitely. As a citizen can be legally assassinated by presidential decree, inside or outside the US. You are living in nothing less than a censored police state, and yet the entire population thinks they are free. You are like sheep waiting to go to the slaughter house in a really big meadow. Just because you can't see the fences from your big homes, does not mean they are not there.

 

[iGrip]

My question is, does the German courts strike down on Google or other companies, who I'm sure have privacy practices that are likely very similar or worse.

It's not FAIR!

 

[Toadstall]

Its *supposed* to happen, but Mr Camoron has essentially said "We'll let you vote, but only if you vote for us in the next election. Then when we win, we'll let you choose if you want to stay in the EU". Sounds like crap to me. .

I imagine the crap will be what we hear for months before the vote

In contrast we have a relatively small (and pretty hated) party called 'UK Independence Party' who want out of the EU. The way its going right now we'll end up with a coalition again, with UKIP being part of it. .

eeer - judging by the latest elections, they arent exactly hated are they. In fact quite the opposite if a lot of people are voting for them. Before you pidgeon hole me - I didnt vote.

If the EU doesn't start opening up and stop acting like a 1940's dictatorship, it'll loose more than just the UK.

Yep, very true. But a couple of the more "stable" EU countries clearly have a lot of self interest in keeping it going, while complaining about having to bail others out....... obviously isnt too painful is it

 

[rmwebs]

eeer - judging by the latest elections, they arent exactly hated are they. In fact quite the opposite if a lot of people are voting for them. Before you pidgeon hole me - I didnt vote.

Sorry, should have clarified. I meant by the other parties. THey have been calling them all sorts of names, trying to smeer them, etc.

FWIW I didn't vote either. I dont see the point in local votes. We still end up with potholes the size of Everest, broken street lights and walkways that look like they lead to Narnia, regardless of who's "in power".

 

[kdarling]

As usual, this list isn't based on what Apple is doing, it is based on what Apple is publicly declaring. The problem with this list is that for example Apple has no access to data that you have stored (anything you store in iCloud is encrypted in a way that makes it impossible for Apple to access),...

We already know that Apple looks at and censors email in iCloud. They even look inside zipped PDFs, according to ArsTechnica's article about this.

This is necessary for automatic spam control, but it points out that it's not encrypted.

And what other data has Apple stored about you?

Thanks to iTunes, quite a bit. Your name, credit, address, what apps and types of media you like, what ads you've seen in the past month (so they won't repeat them).

 

[Gemütlichkeit]

That apple store is sexy as hell

 

[Mousse]

While I like that the German government is looking out for the consumer, I don't like the idea of Gub'ment meddling.

If people are stupid enough to enter a contract with a big corporation where they sign over their freedom to enjoy their shiny new toy. Well, they get what their just desserts. None of this would be an issue if consumers would educate themselves instead of being brainwashed by marketing.

The Missus wanted a new car; I got her a new car. She wanted lots of bling-bling; I got her some bling-bling. She wanted a new house, I got her an old house (Hey, I'm poor.). My wife wanted to create a Facebook account, wanted to post photos on Flicker! and so on. I said, "Oh, hail no!"

Sure the sofa is lumpy and the dog house is damp, but my private life is still private and my photos are still MY photos. Yeah, to post on Flicker, you sign away ALL rights to YOUR photos.

As long as folks are willing to give up so much to gain access to the "latest and greatest," Big Corps are going to continue to exploit their consumer. If folks say "Oh, hail no." to the ridiculous policies of Big Corps, then they will change their tune. The consumer have the power, but they choose not to wield it. That's why a greedy few can manipulate the masses.

 

[Glassed Silver]

as if we won't be pressing "I agree" at whatever this company shelves out

You see, I do like anal sex myself, however I still prefer not to get raped.
I'd like to choose where and how someone wants to shaft me.

You don't, that's fine, but speak for yourself.

Glassed Silver:mac

 

[needfx]

You see, I do like anal sex myself, however I still prefer not to get raped.
I'd like to choose where and how someone wants to shaft me.

You don't, that's fine, but speak for yourself.

Glassed Silver:mac

I loled, but given the situation, our governments will only provide some lube.

 

[antonis]

While I like that the German government is looking out for the consumer, I don't like the idea of Gub'ment meddling.

If people are stupid enough to enter a contract with a big corporation where they sign over their freedom to enjoy their shiny new toy. Well, they get what their just desserts. None of this would be an issue if consumers would educate themselves instead of being brainwashed by marketing.

The Missus wanted a new car; I got her a new car. She wanted lots of bling-bling; I got her some bling-bling. She wanted a new house, I got her an old house (Hey, I'm poor.). My wife wanted to create a Facebook account, wanted to post photos on Flicker! and so on. I said, "Oh, hail no!"

Sure the sofa is lumpy and the dog house is damp, but my private life is still private and my photos are still MY photos. Yeah, to post on Flicker, you sign away ALL rights to YOUR photos.

As long as folks are willing to give up so much to gain access to the "latest and greatest," Big Corps are going to continue to exploit their consumer. If folks say "Oh, hail no." to the ridiculous policies of Big Corps, then they will change their tune. The consumer have the power, but they choose not to wield it. That's why a greedy few can manipulate the masses.

The way things are, you cannot have any online presence (mind that I used the word "presence", I'm not even talking about a social online identity like Facebook) without being tracked/recorded. ISPs and even cell-phone carriers are obliged to give away user data when asked by authorities (at least that's what is applied to most countries). So it's not really about how many end-user agreements you are going to sign or not.

I don't see any realistic way of having any online data and still keep them secured from everyone. From this point on, you just have to rely on each company's ethics about the usage of these data (if there is such a thing, at all).

 

[Mousse]

The way things are, you cannot have any online presence (mind that I used the word "presence", I'm not even talking about a social online identity like Facebook) without being tracked/recorded. ISPs and even cell-phone carriers are obliged to give away user data when asked by authorities (at least that's what is applied to most countries). So it's not really about how many end-user agreements you are going to sign or not.

Yep. I know Google Analytical is tracking my browsing history. Nutt'n I can do about that. Hopefully I'm too boring for them to bother noticing. "What? More porn sites? Yeah, typical internet user. Nothing to see here."

 

[JAT]

For those from the US ridiculing EU and German laws, perhaps you should take a better look at your own country. Any and all information you have stored online can be pulled from companies, your internet and phone traffic can be bugged, all without warrant and without means to defend yourself against it in court of law. You can be arrested and detained without due process and without legal representation, indefinitely. As a citizen can be legally assassinated by presidential decree, inside or outside the US. You are living in nothing less than a censored police state, and yet the entire population thinks they are free. You are like sheep waiting to go to the slaughter house in a really big meadow. Just because you can't see the fences from your big homes, does not mean they are not there.

If life is so hazardous for us, why are you so bitter?

Democracy is the worst form of government, except for all those other forms that have been tried from time to time. -- Churchill

 

[Cubytus]

When will Google be subjected to the same medicine? A lot of people complain about Apple, but I hear nobody asking what in hell does G do with all our data?