German Injunction Against Sale of Galaxy Tab 10.1 Upheld

[apolloa]

I thought I would add on how Apple has innovated. It has innovated in it's advertising and how it 'sells' it's products to you.
For instance, it is the only mobile phone on sale that is incapable of supporting video calling over 3G networks, yet Apple manage to use the FaceTime feature for a full 30 second advert to sell the iPhone.

That's real innovation right there, selling a device advertising one feature that other mobiles have been able to do in a more advance way for years. But you feel Apple was the first to have invented the feature that only works over WiFi because of the way it sells it...

 

[Dbrown]

I don't understand this sort of mentality.

Obviously a $30 game, played on $300+ dedicated console, or a $2000 gaming PC, is going to have some features simply not available on a handheld, portable platform, where the game title sells for less than $10.

A PSP or DS cost less than an iphone or ipod touch. The reason why games sell for less on iOS is because the games are crap.

You need to understand that there are millions of people who like to do "light" gaming. They don't want an XBox cluttering up their living room, nor do they want to fritter away hours learning cheat codes and game maps. They simply want a few minutes of entertaining diversion.

If millions of people want to be entertained by $1 shovelware, great. That doesnt make the games good. There's a reason why games cost less than $10 on iOS.

 

[E.Lizardo]

The difference is Apple has the best spin machine peroid. No one in any industry can sell bs the way Apple can. Whether or not they are superior is up for debate, I don't buy Apple products because of their association with foxconn, the walled garden ecosystem and quite frankly because I can get a equal or better peoduct for less.

Then what the HELL are you doing wasting your time here???

 

[cmaier]

For instance, it is the only mobile phone on sale that is incapable of supporting video calling over 3G networks, yet Apple manage to use the FaceTime feature for a full 30 second advert to sell the iPhone.

Pull complete ******** out of your ass much?

 

[apolloa]

If millions of people want to be entertained by $1 shovelware, great. That doesnt make the games good. There's a reason why games cost less than $10 on iOS.

Plus, considering the industry value, sales figures, it would suggest most of those millions also own home consoles or game PC's.
Hell I can today buy a 19" LED backlit Panasonic HD telly, a 250GB Xbox 360, Gears Of War 3 AND a 12 month Xbox Live subscription for LESS then the cheapest iPhone!!

So do you REALLY want to talk about how Apple has 'magically revolutionised' mobile gaming?
Because I sure as hell prefer my Xbox to ANY iPhone game and most people would too. As for the rest, PSVITA will show Apple the way, but some on here will argue Angry Birds is a far better game then Unchartered or Resistance or Killzone or COD or Bioshock....... most likely people who do not play games, apart from Angry Birds...

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Pull complete ******** out of your ass much?

Oh my God:

iPhone 4 to iPhone 4, iPad 2, the new iPod touch or Mac over Wi-Fi.

http://www.apple.com/uk/iphone/features/facetime.html
https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/930800/

While the current FaceTime implementation for the iPhone does not officially support FaceTime calls over 3G (UMTS/HSPA), there are 3rd party applications that enable this capability for jailbroken devices:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FaceTime

http://www.engadget.com/2010/06/07/facetime-video-calling-added-to-iphone-4/



Do you want to add any more to make YOU look like you are talking out of your arse? Please let me know as I'm sure a quick google will provide.
And hacking a £420 device with unsupported software does NOT count when EVERY other mobile phone that does video calling, supports it over 3G OUT OF THE BOX!!

 

[cmaier]

Plus, considering the industry value, sales figures, it would suggest most of those millions also own home consoles or game PC's.
Hell I can today buy a 19" LED backlit Panasonic HD telly, a 250GB Xbox 360, Gears Of War 3 AND a 12 month Xbox Live subscription for LESS then the cheapest iPhone!!

So do you REALLY want to talk about how Apple has 'magically revolutionised' mobile gaming?
Because I sure as hell prefer my Xbox to ANY iPhone game and most people would too. As for the rest, PSVITA will show Apple the way, but some on here will argue Angry Birds is a far better game then Unchartered or Resistance or Killzone or COD or Bioshock....... most likely people who do not play games, apart from Angry Birds...

----------



Oh my God:

iPhone 4 to iPhone 4, iPad 2, the new iPod touch or Mac over Wi-Fi.

http://www.apple.com/uk/iphone/features/facetime.html
https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/930800/

While the current FaceTime implementation for the iPhone does not officially support FaceTime calls over 3G (UMTS/HSPA), there are 3rd party applications that enable this capability for jailbroken devices:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FaceTime

http://www.engadget.com/2010/06/07/facetime-video-calling-added-to-iphone-4/



Do you want to add any more to make YOU look like you are talking out of your arse? Please let me know as I'm sure a quick google will provide.
And hacking a £420 device with unsupported software does NOT count when EVERY other mobile phone that does video calling, supports it over 3G OUT OF THE BOX!!

How do any of those links prove the iPhone is the ONLY MOBILE PHONE on sale that doesn't have 3G video calling? That's what you claimed.

 

[apolloa]

How do any of those links prove the iPhone is the ONLY MOBILE PHONE on sale that doesn't have 3G video calling? That's what you claimed.

Sigh, as you highlighted:

For instance, it is the only mobile phone on sale that is incapable of supporting video calling over 3G networks

If I walk into the Apple store tomorrow, buy an iPhone, it will NOT allow me to do video calling over a 3G network because it does not support it. If I buy any other phone with video calling, it will.
I am not going to class taking my brand new iPhone, cracking it's software and loading a cracked iOS risking bricking it and loading totally unsupported software just to do 3G video calling as, supporting the feature. When I do not have to do that with any other phone as I could video call over 3G on them if was set up in the store, before I left the store.

Clear enough?

And in the UK, the iPhone IS the only video calling phone on sale as far as I know, including dumb phones, that does not support video calling on 3G out of the box.

 

[cmaier]

Sigh, as you highlighted:

For instance, it is the only mobile phone on sale that is incapable of supporting video calling over 3G networks

If I walk into the Apple store tomorrow, buy an iPhone, it will NOT allow me to do video calling over a 3G network because it does not support it. If I buy any other phone with video calling, it will.
I am not going to class taking my brand new iPhone, cracking it's software and loading a cracked iOS risking bricking it and loading totally unsupported software just to do 3G video calling as, supporting the feature. When I do not have to do that with any other phone as I could video call over 3G on them if was set up in the store, before I left the store.

Clear enough?

And in the UK, the iPhone IS the only video calling phone on sale as far as I know, including dumb phones, that does not support video calling on 3G out of the box.

Not clear enough. You said it is the ONLY phone on sale that doesn't support 3G video calling. You are wrong. MANY phones currently on sale do not support this feature. Just admit you are wrong and move on.

 

[apolloa]

Not clear enough. You said it is the ONLY phone on sale that doesn't support 3G video calling. You are wrong. MANY phones currently on sale do not support this feature. Just admit you are wrong and move on.

Ok, well PROVE your statement then with phones on sale in the "UK" that only support video calling over WiFi just like the iPhone then...

NOT ones in your country that I have never been to, but in the UK.

 

[vrDrew]

If I walk into the Apple store tomorrow, buy an iPhone, it will NOT allow me to do video calling over a 3G network because it does not support it..

Skype (the most widely used video-calling software in the world) is available from iTunes. No jailbreaking, supported by Apple. And it works on 3G networks.

Hysterical ranting based on fundamental untruths. Par for the course for some people, I guess. But vote down my post anyway, just to let me know how much I've made you squirm.

 

[cmaier]

Ok, well PROVE your statement then with phones on sale in the "UK" that only support video calling over WiFi just like the iPhone then...

NOT ones in your country that I have never been to, but in the UK.

You just changed your claim. Now you've added "in the UK" and you've also added "that support video calling over wifi."

Your original statement is disproved by every feature phone and dumb cellphone sold. You keep adding new requirements.

Again, your original statement - that every phone on sale except for iPhone supports video calling over 3G - was false. Admit it.

Hysterical ranting based on fundamental untruths. Par for the course for some people, I guess. But vote down my post anyway, just to let me know how much I've made you squirm.

Yeah, that's the funniest part - he keeps voting down everyone he doesn't agree with - I guess he thinks it's some sort of life scoring system.

 

[apolloa]

You just changed your claim. Now you've added "in the UK" and you've also added "that support video calling over wifi."

Your original statement is disproved by every feature phone and dumb cellphone sold. You keep adding new requirements.

Again, your original statement - that every phone on sale except for iPhone supports video calling over 3G - was false. Admit it.



Yeah, that's the funniest part - he keeps voting down everyone he doesn't agree with - I guess he thinks it's some sort of life scoring system.

First my statement is COMPLETELY true and is fact, and how the hell would I know what phones are on sale in Canada? You obviously have no idea what phones are in sale in the UK nor the fact we have had 3G video calling for years.

And Skype you say? Wow, so I can ONLY use that to another Skype user then, not as in true 3G video calling to 3G video calling using the phones built in system, as I STATED OUT OF THE BOX! Did you not understand that?

Why am I down voting, because you have no idea what you are talking about, that's why, you have no facts, you mis read what I say.

Let me put it another, I can walk out tomorrow, buy a Galaxy S 2, and straight away video call my friend using the 3G network on there Nokia, LG, Samsung, Sony Ericsson, HTC etc. But NOT there iPhone.

Now come back with more rubbish.....

 

[voonyx]

Not clear enough. You said it is the ONLY phone on sale that doesn't support 3G video calling. You are wrong. MANY phones currently on sale do not support this feature. Just admit you are wrong and move on.

I think the people on macrumors nitpick wayyy too much. I think it was quite evident that he was talking about smartphones and not feature or dumb phones...whether or not his statement is true i dont know, but let's not play stupid and act like your confused by what his statement meant (unless you're not playing stupid, in which case... HOW? )

 

[KnightWRX]

Do you want to add any more to make YOU look like you are talking out of your arse?

Skype.

 

[gnasher729]

Any source to back that Netherland doesn't have those laws?

If they doesn't have those laws, how they ruled that a patent was infringed and that Samsung must stop selling the phones on October?

Do you think that Eastern District of Texas is the best district to sue for IP?

Read here: (Even though it hurts to have to link to Florian Mueller's site):

http://fosspatents.blogspot.com/2011/08/preliminary-injunction-granted-by.html

It seems you didn't understand at all what I posted. Germany has laws against "unfair competition". Let's say I have a patent, and you use it without license, that would be patent infringement. In Germany, but not in the Netherlands, if you use that patent in a product that competes with my product, then we also have "unfair competition" (if we are not actually competitors then there is no "unfair competition"). If a third company uses my patent in a product and pays license fees for it, while you build a product that uses my patent without paying license fees, then the third party can sue you for unfair competition.

And since Samsung's tablet competes with Apple's, Apple can sue them in Germany for "unfair competition" on top of everything else, but not in the Netherlands.

I'm sure The Netherlands being in Europe will have fair laws to guard against "unfair competition" just as much as Germany, in fact I'm sure if Apple went to another German court they wouldn't have been awarded the win in the case. Don't be sore and insulting just because a neighbouring country to Germany ruled Apple were being ridiculous. Accept the fact it said Apple were wrong.

You're sure, and you're wrong. Why do you think Apple asked the German court for an injunction against Samsung that covered the whole of the EU _except the Netherlands_ other than for the fact that Dutch laws are different? (It turned out that this court didn't have the power to make a decision for the whole EU, even though Apple _and the court_ believed so; the one court that has the power is somewhere in Spain).

 

[hot spare]

Very clear to me what apolloa is saying. No need to gang up and use court-room tactics to find loop-holes in his statement.
No phone will have all the features. Not even iphone. A very useful feature which is also missing from the iphone is USB OTG. Hopefully it will be introduced this time.

 

[apolloa]

Skype.

Doesn't count as it's not pre-installed out of the box, as I said, every mobile phone that supports 3G video calling does so out of the box without the need for extra software installed. And Skype can only video call to other Skype users, if a Galaxy S2 also has Skype over 3G then you can use that as well as the built in software. All over 3G.

You're sure, and you're wrong. Why do you think Apple asked the German court for an injunction against Samsung that covered the whole of the EU _except the Netherlands_ other than for the fact that Dutch laws are different? (It turned out that this court didn't have the power to make a decision for the whole EU, even though Apple _and the court_ believed so; the one court that has the power is somewhere in Spain).

Apple went to Germany because the court in The Neatherlands ruled against Apple's attempt of a ban:

http://www.mobilebloom.com/court-in...g-apple-case-by-the-15th-of-september/222880/

So your whole argument is flawed, if the country had no laws as you state, then Apple would never have bothered filing a case there in the first place. Fact is they had to go there because Rotterdam is based there, and that's the main route of importing goods into the continent. And it failed.

 

[hot spare]

Read here: (Even though it hurts to have to link to Florian Mueller's site):

http://fosspatents.blogspot.com/2011/08/preliminary-injunction-granted-by.html

It seems you didn't understand at all what I posted. Germany has laws against "unfair competition". Let's say I have a patent, and you use it without license, that would be patent infringement. In Germany, but not in the Netherlands, if you use that patent in a product that competes with my product, then we also have "unfair competition" (if we are not actually competitors then there is no "unfair competition"). If a third company uses my patent in a product and pays license fees for it, while you build a product that uses my patent without paying license fees, then the third party can sue you for unfair competition.

No need to quote Florian Mueller. He is s self-glorifying egoist. Above all, he has a subtle racial tone, which I don't quite appreciate:

Quoted directly from his site "Lucy Koh, the judge presiding over the lawsuit in California, is the first-ever Korean-American U.S. federal judge. There's no reason whatsoever to doubt her fairness." [California Samsung-Apple case].

I never heard him saying same about any American/Dutch/German judge being appointed for any case. What's he trying to imply here? I leave this to your better judgement.

And as for Netherland's laws, I am sure they are not much different from other progressive nation. It's a fact that Düsseldorf court in Germany is a heaven for patent litigation.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/parmyolson/2011/08/24/why-apple-went-to-dusseldorf/

Patent-holding plaintiffs won 63% of all infringement cases in Dusseldorf between 2006 and 2009. That’s well above the global average of 35%.

 

[vrDrew]

Let me put it another, I can walk out tomorrow, buy a Galaxy S 2, and straight away video call my friend using the 3G network on there Nokia, LG, Samsung, Sony Ericsson, HTC etc. But NOT there iPhone.

Now come back with more rubbish.....

I think you have a fundamental disagreement with Apple's design and engineering philosophy.

Make no mistake about it, Apple certainly could have enabled 3G video calling "out of the box" on the iPhone. A few lines of code modifying the way FaceTime works would have taken care of it.

But they didn't. Why?

Because Apple knew that people would end up being disappointed by the experience. That 3G service was too unreliable, or too slow, or too spotty to give people the sort of video experience they expect from an Apple device. That too many videocalls would eat up people's data caps at an alarming rate. That several million iPhone users all happily videochatting away would crash two thirds of the country's cellular data networks.

Its one thing if a few geeky Android guys dig through their manuals to figure out how to make a video call (and arrange with their equally geeky friends to be ready to receive them.) Its another thing entirely if Apple makes it so easy and intuitive that pretty much anyone can do it.

So Apple made FaceTime available only via WiFi: Where speeds are high enough that video quality is going to be good. Where every extra megabyte of data isn't costing you another 10 cents.

Sometimes the best engineering is what you leave OUT of a product. Thats something a lot of people have difficulty understanding, apparently.

 

[hans1972]

Samsung?

Hm, so who owns the community design for TVs?

Samsung has 126 community designs for televisions.

----------

Sounds really uncompetitive since registering these designs costs a lot for startup entrepreneurs.

The application fee is €900.

 

[hans1972]

Design only for handheld computers

Does this mean that it doesn't matter what kind of device it is, if it looks like the design apple registered it will get banned?

Apples community design is only for "handheld computers".

 

[gnasher729]

Apple went to Germany because the court in The Neatherlands ruled against Apple's attempt of a ban:

Apple went to the court in Düsseldorf first and got a preliminary injunction there before the ruling in the Netherlands.

So your whole argument is flawed, if the country had no laws as you state, then Apple would never have bothered filing a case there in the first place. Fact is they had to go there because Rotterdam is based there, and that's the main route of importing goods into the continent. And it failed.

Oh for heavens sake. You must be trying very, very hard not to understand this. In Germany, there were two relevant laws: Copying a device protected by a "Community design", and "unfair competition". In the Netherlands, only one relevant law: Copying a device protected by a "Community design". Therefore the court in Düsseldorf, which assumed at the time it could rule for the whole EU, _knew_ that it couldn't rule for the Netherlands on grounds of "unfair competition".

 

[hot spare]

I think you have a fundamental disagreement with Apple's design and engineering philosophy.

Make no mistake about it, Apple certainly could have enabled 3G video calling "out of the box" on the iPhone. A few lines of code modifying the way FaceTime works would have taken care of it.

But they didn't. Why?

Because Apple knew that people would end up being disappointed by the experience. That 3G service was too unreliable, or too slow, or too spotty to give people the sort of video experience they expect from an Apple device. That too many videocalls would eat up people's data caps at an alarming rate. That several million iPhone users all happily videochatting away would crash two thirds of the country's cellular data networks.

Its one thing if a few geeky Android guys dig through their manuals to figure out how to make a video call (and arrange with their equally geeky friends to be ready to receive them.) Its another thing entirely if Apple makes it so easy and intuitive that pretty much anyone can do it.

So Apple made FaceTime available only via WiFi: Where speeds are high enough that video quality is going to be good. Where every extra megabyte of data isn't costing you another 10 cents.

Sometimes the best engineering is what you leave OUT of a product. Thats something a lot of people have difficulty understanding, apparently.

I have to admit this is a wonderfully drafted reply. But then you ruined everything when you mentioned Android requires you to be a geek to make video calls. You might want to check on that.

You could have avoided that statement at the end. Leaving out a feature is absolutely DUMB. I am the consumer, and I will decide whether my speeds are good for video calls. Apple does not have to make the decision for me. They need to push technology forward. If 3/3.5/4G is so unreliable, why have it at all?

 

[swagi]

Apple ushered in a completely new mobile paradigm. "Changing the visual style of something", as you stated, destroyed a decade of MS' WinMo strategy, almost made Motorola go dark for a year (they ended up folding into Google anyway), destroyed Palm, forced HP to completely re-evaluate their business, sent RIM into a downward spiral, sent Nokia into a downward spiral, gave rise to Android (nice notes, Eric), changed the face of handheld gaming (poor Nintendo) and is singularly responsible for the incredible industry shifts that have taken place since 2007 (the rise of mobile as a viable and robust computing platform.)

Take a look around the app store. This isn't 2008.

insert typical LTD BLURB

http://itunes.apple.com/ca/app/dead-space/id396018321?mt=8

Also for iPad:

Image


There are other examples.

Play a great, touch-enabled version of Dead Space, for example, - pretty much a landmark in touch-based gaming, then quickly check your e-mail and then pay a bill through your banking app.

All from the same hand-held device. THAT is what Apple brought us.

Who was talking about consoles??

What Apple did was monumental for handhelds.

Why are consoles even a part of this discussion?

Either severe case of Reality Distortion - wouldn't be so surprising - or definite medical problem - I don't know.

You said, they changed handheld gaming and Nintendo is shivering to their bones.

I said that Nintendo offers robust handheld platforms and that the iOS gaming experience can't even barely touch the mobile gaming performance delivered by Sony or Nintendo (and referenced to Zelda and Uncharted as the main next gen handheld signature titles). I said I guess you don't have a clue about mobile gaming.

You said I'm so 2008 and should check out the pinnacle of touch-based gaming called Dead Space.

I said you really dont have a clue about gaming at all.

Now you're asking, why this is about consoles?

My answer remains the same: YOU SAID, APPLE CHANGED THE FACE OF MOBILE GAMING. And I said: LTD, GO SEE A SHRINK. YOU DON'T HAVE A CLUE ABOUT MOBILE GAMING!

Because Nintendo DSi and now 3DS as well as Sony PSP and next Vita are handheld gaming consoles. They do not need to fear iOS as iOS is "gaming for soccer moms".

But yeah - I remember - there was this comical moment in one of the Steve-notes where your turtlenecked guru told you that "The iPhone is the world best selling mobile gaming platform. It even outperforms Sony and Nintendo" while showing some strange pic with some weirdly crafted statistic to prove it. You sure have to believe it.

 

[hans1972]

Leaving out a feature is absolutely DUMB. I am the consumer, and I will decide whether my speeds are good for video calls

Apple´s design philosophy is that the average customer does not have the knowledge to make those decisions.

Also Apple dislike features that work great in some situations and bad in others, especially if they can´t control when those situations occur.

Any consumer who wants to be in complete control will be a very unhappy Apple customer. Many Apple customers rely on/demand/expect Apple to make those decisions for them. They are after all the experts and someone you trust.