German Injunction Against Sale of Galaxy Tab 10.1 Upheld

[apolloa]

Oh for heavens sake. You must be trying very, very hard not to understand this. In Germany, there were two relevant laws: Copying a device protected by a "Community design", and "unfair competition". In the Netherlands, only one relevant law: Copying a device protected by a "Community design". Therefore the court in Düsseldorf, which assumed at the time it could rule for the whole EU, _knew_ that it couldn't rule for the Netherlands on grounds of "unfair competition".

I worded my response as such because you have implied in your previous posts that The Neatherleands has no competition laws? Hence my response. And I find it quite funny when Apple tried to get a Europe wide ban from a court who's powers have alway's been restricted to Germany. Apple will need to go VERY high up to ban a product EU wide because is looked like some drawings it made!

@Swagi, Steve Jobs stated it was more successful then Xbox Live yeah, iOS gaming is soooooo amazing :roll eyes:

And just a few gaming links:
http://spong.com/article/25263/Apple-Hated-Video-Games-Says-Xbox-Man
http://www.bit-tech.net/news/gaming/2008/08/05/john-carmack-steve-jobs-hates-games/1
http://archive.videogamesdaily.com/features/gabenewell_valve_iv_sep07_p1.asp

@hot spare, my thoughts exactly which is why I didn't bother replying, plus the fact in the UK we have had 3G video calling phones for years BOTH dumb phone and smart phone. You used to even be able to get free video calling minutes in your packages.
But hey, if you use an iPhone to do it your umber cool, use an Android device and you are a geek - the epitome of Apple's achievement, make your users believe they are better then everybody else

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Many Apple customers rely on/demand/expect Apple to make those decisions for them. They are after all the experts and someone you trust.

That is so wrong IMO, so by your thinking all Mac Rumors members and readers are incapable of choice, they are incapable of choosing what they do and don't want, what does and doesn't work? Because Apple are better at it then you are?
You'll love the new computers running iOS then.

 

[hans1972]

Because Nintendo DSi and now 3DS as well as Sony PSP and next Vita are handheld gaming consoles. They do not need to fear iOS as iOS is "gaming for soccer moms".

"H'aint we got all the fools in town on our side? And ain't that a big enough majority in any town?" -Mark Twain

I do believe that dedicated gaming devices are in serious trouble. Most mobile gaming is going to be on iOS, Android and Windows Phone. Most gaming on the PC will be on Facebook, Google+. Even with big screen gaming the dedicated gaming consoles will face fierce competition from Apple TV(iOS), Google TV and various TV platforms in the future.

There are more "soccer moms" than core gamers.

 

[Dbrown]

Even with big screen gaming the dedicated gaming consoles will face fierce competition from Apple TV(iOS), Google TV and various TV platforms in the future.

/facepalm

There are more "soccer moms" than core gamers.

and soccer moms only spend $1 to buy a game which is why iOS will be a shovelware platform.

 

[cmaier]

Apple´s design philosophy is that the average customer does not have the knowledge to make those decisions.

No. It's that the average customer doesn't want to be bothered to make those decisions.

 

[ct2k7]

No. It's that the average customer doesn't want to be bothered to make those decisions.

And thus, Apple are streamlining things, or even hiding things.

 

[Renzatic]

There are more "soccer moms" than core gamers.

One million soccer moms bought Angry Birds for $1, whereas 300,000 hardcore gamers bought Gears of Final Halo 69 for $59.95.

Which one sold more?
Which one made more money?
Which one is the ultimate winner of the my e-peen is bigger than your e-peen contest?
Why are we comparing apples to oranges?

 

[Oletros]

Read here: (Even though it hurts to have to link to Florian Mueller's site):

http://fosspatents.blogspot.com/2011/08/preliminary-injunction-granted-by.html

It seems you didn't understand at all what I posted. Germany has laws against "unfair competition". Let's say I have a patent, and you use it without license, that would be patent infringement. In Germany, but not in the Netherlands, if you use that patent in a product that competes with my product, then we also have "unfair competition" (if we are not actually competitors then there is no "unfair competition"). If a third company uses my patent in a product and pays license fees for it, while you build a product that uses my patent without paying license fees, then the third party can sue you for unfair competition.

And since Samsung's tablet competes with Apple's, Apple can sue them in Germany for "unfair competition" on top of everything else, but not in the Netherlands.




You're sure, and you're wrong. Why do you think Apple asked the German court for an injunction against Samsung that covered the whole of the EU _except the Netherlands_ other than for the fact that Dutch laws are different? (It turned out that this court didn't have the power to make a decision for the whole EU, even though Apple _and the court_ believed so; the one court that has the power is somewhere in Spain).

Citing Mueller is a wasteful exercice, he is wrong a lot of times like in the link you have posted as he says that han injunction is granted in Germany if the judge thinks it will prevail in the main proceeding.

Netherland has unfair competition laws as have any other country in the UE:

http://books.google.es/books?id=P6B...page&q=unfair competition netherlands&f=false

http://www.ejcl.org/75/art75-9.html

 

[adder7712]

I do believe that dedicated gaming devices are in serious trouble. Most mobile gaming is going to be on iOS, Android and Windows Phone. Most gaming on the PC will be on Facebook, Google+. Even with big screen gaming the dedicated gaming consoles will face fierce competition from Apple TV(iOS), Google TV and various TV platforms in the future.

FarmVille vs Battlefield 3? Not a snowball's chance in Hell.

 

[MH01]

Www.Amazon.fr ... Www.amazon.co.uk. Or any number of online retailers within the EU but outside of Germany, problem solved. Germans can get their galaxies no problems whats so ever.

 

[adder7712]

I wasn't even bedazzled when Apple announced their "innovative" FaceTime video calling. This humble Sony Ericsson W910 had a front camera in 2008 and can make it over 3G.

This is a response to the argument about video calling in the previous pages.

 

[marksman]

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The photoframe is from 2006, the Apple Community Design registration is from 2004. Samsung won against that claim in Dutch court thanks to the HP/Compaq TC1100 providing prior art.

What i dont get is how they failed to provide the prior arts dug up around here (and elsewhere), such as the Electrovaya, Tabletkiosk, pbj etc. Even if some designs do not pre-date the registration per se, they could still - as i see it - be used as examples of why this design is not "special", and worthy of protection.

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Samsung photo frames have always look like this.
Image
Why couldn't they use their photo frame against Apple.

Hadnt seen that one before. But yeah. Thats another though, start selling really advanced photoframes running Android o_o

Of course you don't get it because you were the one posting pics making everyone convinced you do not know what an iPad looks like.

 

[Lennholm]

Its one thing if a few geeky Android guys dig through their manuals to figure out how to make a video call (and arrange with their equally geeky friends to be ready to receive them.) Its another thing entirely if Apple makes it so easy and intuitive that pretty much anyone can do it.

Why so condecending? It has been clearly obvious for the last 10 years or so that people aren't interested in video calling. The feature has been around for about that time but people haven't been using it. Not even Apple will be able to change that.

 

[dusk007]

I don't know but hope that has come up in the discussion.
This whole issue is NOT about a PATENT, you Americans just keep calling it a Patent. It is a "Geschmacksmuster" something that is supposed to protect nothing but the look of products of a company. Same as you cannot build a car with a characteristic Mercedes radiator grill.
Naturally the "Geschmacksmuster" in question is ridiculous to begin with as it is nowhere near characteristic enough for such a small device. Apple got lucky which a bunch of stupid judges but that will not really do them any good.

Ordering a Galaxy Tab from Austria is about as easy as ordering one from Jersey when you live in Manhattan. How ever wants to buy one in Germany can do it. The only difference is people won't stumble on it in the big electronic stores.

Austrian and German laws are pretty much identical in this respect thus if there was any chance for Apple to span this ban over the borders of Germany it would have worked already.

 

[iJustPopped]

typical..

Typical Apple litigates while someone else innovates!

 

[*LTD*]

Typical Apple litigates while someone else innovates!

Who's the "someone else" who innovated here? Certainly not Samsung. The Galaxy Tab seems to be as close a competing version of what Apple's already released as they could get. In fact, Samsung had to redesign the first one, it was lousy. It seems more like an iPad alternative than a novel and interesting re-thinking of the genre. It isn't innovation, just a me-too product designed to ape the iPad with a different (and worse) OS, but without the Apple branding. It's a demonstration of Samsung's desire for relevance in this area - that they too, want a finger in the tablet pie.

The question folks are trying to answer here (and what courts are trying to answer - some have) is whether Samsung's product approaches Apple's too closely (or closely enough to merit an injunction), not whether Samsung innovated anything in this area.

 

[kdarling]

The fact that Apple invented a design that defined how "modern tablet" looks like, does not grant everyone else right to use that design.

Instead of "invented" a design look, I'd say more like "used" a certain style and made it popular.

Next year, they could easily decide to use a different style, just as they've gone from curved back to flatter blocky style with the iPhone.

It reminds me of when car makers experimented with fins. It wasn't until Cadillac used them, though, that fins took off and were used everywhere for years.

As you get older, you see this kind of thing repeat itself over and over again, and you realize that often what seems to be a breakthrough to the young, is simply a choice that could've gone many different ways... and still might in the future.

 

[gnasher729]

I worded my response as such because you have implied in your previous posts that The Neatherleands has no competition laws? Hence my response. And I find it quite funny when Apple tried to get a Europe wide ban from a court who's powers have alway's been restricted to Germany. Apple will need to go VERY high up to ban a product EU wide because is looked like some drawings it made!

I never said the Netherlands had no competition laws. The Netherlands do not have an equivalent of the German laws against unfair competition ("Unlauterer Wettbewerb"). As it happens, neither have the USA. Which may explain why you don't get it. Type "Unlauterer Wettbewerb" into Google, and you will find a nice explanation (in German )

And since Apple didn't just try to get a Europe wide ban from the court in Düsseldorf but actually got it (until the court was told by the proper court they had no right to make a Europe wide judgement), I'd say it is not Apple to blame here, but the court in Düsseldorf. And Apple doesn't have to go very high up for a ban in Europe (except the Netherlands), just to the right court which I believe is in Spain.

 

[Oletros]

The Netherlands do not have an equivalent of the German laws against unfair competition

Yes, it has.

And, even it they didn't have it, it would be irrelevant because the injuction has nothing to do with unfair competition.

 

[marksman]

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Freaky, so why are you even on this site? Again, I say this every time. Why on earth does someone who dislikes a company down so much time on a site dedicated to that company.

I don't think I'd ever visit an android site and post about how much I don't care for their products. What a waste of my time.

Why do you live in USA if you are pro-republican? (I don't know where do you live, but that's the case: this is a democratic forum)

That is your response as to why apple haters hang out on an apple site?

I want this to be clear hanging out on a site for something you do not like or enjoy is extremely abnormal and likely inductive of some disease or defect.

 

[KnightWRX]

That is your response as to why apple haters hang out on an apple site?

I want this to be clear hanging out on a site for something you do not like or enjoy is extremely abnormal and likely inductive of some disease or defect.

Who are these people you are referring to ? I see a bunch of Apple users here trying to hold a discussion.

 

[fertilized-egg]

Typical Apple litigates while someone else innovates!

Ironically, Samsung's consumer electronics strategy has always been ripping off ideas and, especially, market segment already explored by another company and copy off the strategy of the said company by making similar products in the same market segment. And it's not my opinion, the top brass of Samsung has always been known to openly admit they try to make similar products modeled after successful products made by others first.

I dislike Apple's way of litigation as it's probably better to be like Microsoft and quietly negotiate deals to get money off others - you probably won't win these kind of law suits consistently and it's a bad PR, not to mention I don't agree with suing others for this kind of business stuff. Microsoft got their cash and many aren't even aware of their profiteering off of Android.

On the other hand, I also dislike a company like Samsung whose MO is to copy off a successful market leader instead of opening up new innovations(and no, I don't mean innovation like a product is now faster and has more RAM) so I can understand both sides and will watch how the drama unfolds.

 

[voonyx]

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That is your response as to why apple haters hang out on an apple site?

I want this to be clear hanging out on a site for something you do not like or enjoy is extremely abnormal and likely inductive of some disease or defect.

Agreed. Apple haters seem to gravitate toward Apple-centric articles, sites, forums etc. Strange behavior.

 

[tunerX]

I think the people on macrumors nitpick wayyy too much. I think it was quite evident that he was talking about smartphones and not feature or dumb phones...whether or not his statement is true i dont know, but let's not play stupid and act like your confused by what his statement meant (unless you're not playing stupid, in which case... HOW? )

Especially that guy. I was able to infer that he was referring to phones that had the built in video calling capability.

Many people here like to pick a sentence that has a small error or is a little vague and argue that as an OPs full intent. Grammar police never win an argument, they just argue for arguments sake.

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Agreed. Apple haters seem to gravitate toward Apple-centric articles, sites, forums etc. Strange behavior.

The same can be said about the Apple lovers. I was reading a review of a high end gaming laptop, and in the comments section there was a single Apple lover bashing it.

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Ironically, Samsung's consumer electronics strategy has always been ripping off ideas and, especially, market segment already explored by another company and copy off the strategy of the said company by making similar products in the same market segment. And it's not my opinion, the top brass of Samsung has always been known to openly admit they try to make similar products modeled after successful products made by others first.

I dislike Apple's way of litigation as it's probably better to be like Microsoft and quietly negotiate deals to get money off others - you probably won't win these kind of law suits consistently and it's a bad PR, not to mention I don't agree with suing others for this kind of business stuff. Microsoft got their cash and many aren't even aware of their profiteering off of Android.

On the other hand, I also dislike a company like Samsung whose MO is to copy off a successful market leader instead of opening up new innovations(and no, I don't mean innovation like a product is now faster and has more RAM) so I can understand both sides and will watch how the drama unfolds.

They all steal from each other. When it is their turn to be stolen from they cry foul.

 

[fertilized-egg]

They all steal from each other. When it is their turn to be stolen from they cry foul.

My point is that while I understand that everyone steals from each other and make things better, Samsung is a kind of company that intentionally copies without adding much to it and that's because of its business model. It's a company that prides itself in making good copies of innovators based on its strength in making great components and competitively priced goods.

While they make great parts with excellent engineering that is often innovative, and products that are reasonably priced, those aren't the kind of innovations we usually discuss. Whatever iPhone features that are "stolen" from competitors, are from Google's Android OS, Palm webOS, etc, nothing particular from Samsung's work.

 

[marksman]

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Except none of this is actually true.

Apple is submitting their claims about Samsung to a series of legal tests. Samsung isn't passing all of them (and this one in Germany is a particularly hard fail.)

None of this is anti-competitive, because it has nothing to do with competition. Samsung just isn't making the cut.

The integrity of products must stand up to legal scrutiny.

Utter rubbish mate. It has everything to do with Apple using an excuse to kill the competition by banning a product from sale. Nothing else. It is the most anti competitive thing you can do, you will never see this though as your a complete Apple fan boy. Apple can do no wrong according to you and that's going by your previous history on this site.

This has everything to do with Apple being scared and knowing full well it is going to loose market share to Android, it cannot control the market for ever, instead of generating an effective business plan to compete, innovate products, it has decided to sue everybody, it has already had cases thrown out of court.

It is easily one of the most arrogant companies going and even Cisco stated this, CISCO! When Steve STOLE the iPhone name from them.
Well karma is a bitch and Apple is going to have their's if they continue.

Amazon can't launch their tablet soon enough. Because that changes the rules, Google, Amazon, HTC, Samsung, vs Apple. I think we can all guess who is going to eventually loose.

I see people getting the Galaxy to replace their iPhones every day, the Galaxy is rated higher then the iPhone. And the same will happen with the iPad in time.

Everything you said is wrong.

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Based on the tiny little affair the European courts had with Microsoft.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/science/microsoft-loses-appeal-over-monopoly-fine-402668.html

Completely different. Nothing Apple did here meets any legal test for abuse of monopoly.

You can't just apply a "monopoly" label to anything you don't like, especially when Apple is acting within the law.

Th most business experience people here have is playing monopoly. So you can't blame them for having that in their pocket. It seems monopoly is wildly popular in Europe.

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Horrible, horrible for consumers. Creating a monopoly by force of law instead of competition. Horrible, just horrible. I officially HATE Apple now.

Why do people keep calling the act of copying someone else's work competition?

That is like saying people who sell bootleg DVDs are competition for the movie studios

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Apple is the bad guy, this does nothing for innovation (like someone said) it just makes other companies fear making something because big bad apple might try to sue the pants off of them for using a square.

The products are completely different from one another if you get past the square design.

Ridiculous that they used the drawings to draw that conclusion rather than the final products.

I'm telling you if there is ever a day I feel like I could get some possible benefit from a tablet over a computer I'm definitely not going Apple.

That generic appearance has been around for years in concept or actual product when it comes to tablets. Apparently apple fears Samsung...though to tell you the truth the Mototolla Xoom has the most potential.

There is no innovation in just copying what someone else did

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Samsung, if you had innovated to begin with, you wouldn’t be in this predicament. Don’t twist words and expect us to accept your spin.

innovation |ˌinəˈvā sh ən|
noun
the action or process of innovating.
• a new method, idea, product, etc.

Samsung, if you’re second or third to the market (by quite a margin) with a device essentially mirroring that of the first to the market (as has now also been established in court), your product is not a new idea. You are not innovating!!

The problem is that you are using the word innovation like the word invention.

And the second problem is that Samsung has brought more to the industry then Apple ever will.

Lol what?

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That's how a preliminary injunction in Germany works. What you may be missing is the tiny little detail that after the preliminary injunction you actually need to get a real injunction, and if you don't manage to do that, you are liable for all damages. And you won't get the injunction unless you can demonstrate that you can pay for the damages. Samsung is a big company, they can easily make some claims that would get them a preliminary injunction against iPad sales in Germany. The problem is that this might be very, very expensive for them.

So I've learnt.. I don't agree with it, it's a stupid law, but so is the US patent system at present. I don't think Samsung will be too worried though and will come up with counter attack plan.

changed the face of handheld gaming (poor Nintendo)

Just stop? Seriously? I bet your the only person here who is going to state Apple has changed the world of handheld gaming. Seriously. You have absolutely no idea what you are stating here. All Apple has done is helped the invention of shovel ware. Tons of it.

Yeah, Mario and Unchartered have literally nothing on Infinity Blade and Angry Birds.

What percentage of current handheld developers owe their existence or current success to the iOS platform?

That is what I thought.

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Yeah, Samsung can counter attack with a uniquely designed product the second time around. They cheated, got caught, and it's expensive. Meanwhile the other copycat companies are re-thinking their ripoff plans.

Ignoring the rest, in regards to price, seeing as Apple like to HEAVILY over charge for it's products, the other tablets you can buy are only priced to match the market price Apple set in the first place.

Lol right. You actually believe that don't you