German Report Says 'Apple Car' Could Arrive in Form of Electric Van

[Ted13]

And until you can fill up a car with electricity like you can with gas, the EV will have severe limitations.

Which is exactly why Tesla has such an advantage: until the competition comes up with their own Supercharger network, Powerwalls, EVs with battery range of over 400 miles the fact that charging a Bolt or Leaf or BMW EV on a trip is such a long, painful process is why Tesla has no competition right now.

Tesla is going to have to compete with BMW, Audi, Benz, Ford, GM, VW, and even companies like Porsche and Cadillac.

...and you still haven't explained how all these companies will deal with selling EVs through their car dealerships, who don't want to sell EVs.

 

[AppleScruff1]

And until you can fill up a car with electricity like you can with gas, the EV will have severe limitations.
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Stop getting caught up in gross numbers. That is nothing in this market. It's like saying the Pixel is successful because they sold 2M of them. Who cares? The car market is huge. I mean, people still buy Mitsubishis...it doesn't mean they are building a good car or have a winning strategy.

Tesla is going to have to compete with BMW, Audi, Benz, Ford, GM, VW, and even companies like Porsche and Cadillac.

EV is a concept everyone in the industry will eventually offer, but the MASS market doesn't want them yet.

Tesla isn't even the Apple of the car industry...killing it with overall relatively low market share. Apple is insanely profitable...Tesla has low market share AND loses money almost every quarter. They need to be making huge leaps to build their fortress, but they are strapped for cash and still not producing anywhere near the volume necessary.

It really bugs you doesn’t it? Why, because BMW isn’t into to it so it’s no good? Like if Apple doesn’t do it it’s junk?

 

[macduke]

NOBODY EVER SAID THAT!!!

Throughout the mid 2000s everybody in any media or forum was SCREAMING for Apple to turn the iPod into a phone. There was no maturity in the market as smartphones had only just come to the fore & Apple timed their entry sorta right as it took a few models, the app store & more carriers to really take off.

I'm going to assume you weren't old enough back then to read the news because there were pundits everywhere saying that, including CEOs of major corporations such as Microsoft.

 

[sirozha]

Man, have I been dreaming of driving an electric van with an Apple logo for years now! Finally, my dream will come true.

 

[Baymowe335]

It really bugs you doesn’t it? Why, because BMW isn’t into to it so it’s no good? Like if Apple doesn’t do it it’s junk?

I really don't care. I'm just pointing out Tesla as a company has a lot of problems.

BMW has an electric car business also, but they are still killing it in their normal gas powered operations.
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Which is exactly why Tesla has such an advantage: until the competition comes up with their own Supercharger network, Powerwalls, EVs with battery range of over 400 miles the fact that charging a Bolt or Leaf or BMW EV on a trip is such a long, painful process is why Tesla has no competition right now.


...and you still haven't explained how all these companies will deal with selling EVs through their car dealerships, who don't want to sell EVs.

If Tesla has any advantages, it hasn't shown up in profits or sales. Terrible business as it stands today. That's all.

 

[cube]

PHEV batteries are too small.

Adequate batteries would probably kill the efficiency proposition.

 

[Baymowe335]

You can go on and on, but at the end of the day, Tesla is putting a lot of EVs on the road. If I want to buy an EV with a large battery pack and significant charging infrastructure they’re the only and best option at the moment.

They really aren't putting out a lot of vehicles.

And their lack of charging stations, speed of charging, and mileage limitations are some of their biggest problems. Those and they can't make money, particularly without subsidies.

 

[profets]

They really aren't putting out a lot of vehicles.

And their lack of charging stations, speed of charging, and mileage limitations are some of their biggest problems. Those and they can't make money, particularly without subsidies.

If those are problems for Tesla, then can’t imagine what a disaster any other auto manufacturer must be in.

 

[Greenmeenie]

VW is coming out with an electric I.D. Buzz classic van with a 375 mile range and 30 minute quick charge in 2022. It looks really sweet. Maybe Apple will combine forces with them for this release. Seems like a perfect marraige.

 

[profets]

Which is exactly why Tesla has such an advantage: until the competition comes up with their own Supercharger network, Powerwalls, EVs with battery range of over 400 miles the fact that charging a Bolt or Leaf or BMW EV on a trip is such a long, painful process is why Tesla has no competition right now.


...and you still haven't explained how all these companies will deal with selling EVs through their car dealerships, who don't want to sell EVs.

This is a big part of the problem. You try talking about an EV at a traditional dealership and you quickly realize how they are quite uneducated and have very little willing to learn.

When I first reached out to an acquaintance at BMW when I was looking to order an i3, his first response was “you don’t want that car.” It was a guy I knew decently well, and he was annoyed when I pushed and finally got the name of someone from the dealer who handles the i brand.

Can also see how it’ll hurt traditional dealers - there’s almost no service needed on a true BEV. With my i3, just need to check brake fluid every few years (though the brakes aren’t really used anyway) and change the cabin air filter once in a while.

 

[cube]

VW is coming out with an electric I.D. Buzz classic van with a 375 mile range and 30 minute quick charge in 2022. It looks really sweet. Maybe Apple will combine forces with them for this release. Seems like a perfect marraige.

Why would VW need to partner with Apple?

 

[kingtj]

I think you're possibly right about self-driving vehicles never becoming the norm without infrastructure changes. But that statement about the safety of Teslas isn't accurate, because most Teslas are far from "self driving". The full self-driving capability is, in fact, something Elon Musk repeatedly promised and failed to deliver in the promised time-frame. Tesla owners were given the option to pay thousands extra for the privilege of receiving it as a future update, whenever it was ready. Some have tried to file a class-action lawsuit to get refunded, because it's taken so long.

Most Tesla accidents you read about when the car is "driving itself" amount to stupid people putting too much trust in what's essentially a speed-matching cruise control plus ability to keep the car centered in a lane (assuming the painted lines are clearly visible). While in that mode, you can also order it to change lanes with your turn signal... Again, a feature that assumes you're still keeping an eye out to make sure it can safely complete the lane change. (It only has so many sensors to try to figure out if obstacles are in its path while engaging it.)

If there's anything Tesla probably needed to do differently, it was the optimistic marketing. It should have never called the features "auto pilot", and made it more clear these were simply driver assist features. They work pretty well when used in that manner.

I like the idea of a utilitarian electric mini-van - none of the current mini-vans have electric models - but self-driving cars will NEVER happen without modifying the actual infrastructure.

Right now self-driving electric cars from Tesla have a higher death rate than motorcycles.

Meanwhile, there are some vehicles that have NEVER had a driver fatality for some model years, like the Kia Sorrento and the Honda Odyssey.

 

[Greymacuser]

I wouldn't ever trust a self-driving car, let alone en even larger van. #deathtrap

 

[jeyf]

...Can also see how it’ll hurt traditional dealers - there’s almost no service needed....

sell Ev's in the mall apple store.

 

[kingtj]

This is a big part of the problem. You try talking about an EV at a traditional dealership and you quickly realize how they are quite uneducated and have very little willing to learn.

When I first reached out to an acquaintance at BMW when I was looking to order an i3, his first response was “you don’t want that car.” It was a guy I knew decently well, and he was annoyed when I pushed and finally got the name of someone from the dealer who handles the i brand.

Can also see how it’ll hurt traditional dealers - there’s almost no service needed on a true BEV. With my i3, just need to check brake fluid every few years (though the brakes aren’t really used anyway) and change the cabin air filter once in a while.

I can't say that many salespeople at car dealers have EVER been well informed about what they sell. When I bought my Jeep Wrangler, my salesperson immediately told me he wasn't familiar with many of the vehicle's features. His idea of trying to sell me on it during the test drive was encouraging me to try driving over a curb, to show me how "capable" the Jeep was. And this was at a Jeep dealership that had a lot packed FULL of Wranglers! The lack of knowledge was borderline disturbing, since there are some things a person could do when driving one that would do damage to the drive-line (such as driving it around with full-time 4WD engaged, on roads that aren't slippery).

Most will just make things up if they think it helps make a sale. The few who really know what they're talking about are usually self-taught because they actually owned the same vehicle you're looking to buy. But there's definitely a conflict of interest with the electric cars sold by most dealerships. They can't even entice you with the usual "extras" they like to throw in like "X number of free oil changes".

 

[AppleScruff1]

They really aren't putting out a lot of vehicles.

And their lack of charging stations, speed of charging, and mileage limitations are some of their biggest problems. Those and they can't make money, particularly without subsidies.

Do you must have hated Apple in the pre-iPhone era.

 

[deebinem]

I wouldn't ever trust a self-driving car, let alone en even larger van. #deathtrap

In the same way I never trust any of you phone addicted primates to actually pay attention to something outside of Instagram or Twitter while operating a car.

EDIT: You've got the hastag to prove it...

 

[Greenmeenie]

Why would VW need to partner with Apple?

Apple has invested heavily in self driving tech. They also are one of the biggest tech companies in the world. I dont know anything, but sounds like a good partnership. Apple is already using VW vehicles in their testing. I was just making the leap. Not saying for sure.

 

[VictorTango777]

All seats will be permanently molded to fit Jony Ive's own body.
Replacing tires, window glass, even a light bulb will require replacing half the car.
Battery will be glued to the car.

 

[cube]

Apple has invested heavily in self driving tech. They also are one of the biggest tech companies in the world. I dont know anything, but sounds like a good partnership. Apple is already using VW vehicles in their testing. I was just making the leap. Not saying for sure.

VW does not need Apple for automated driving.

 

[BuddyTronic]

Why would VW need to partner with Apple?

To get a superior computer human interface would be one reason, right? Compare any car makers navigation system to Siri enabled maps navigation system. Of course Google does it too, with a few dirty hooks attached to how it works, but you get the point I’m sure.

Apple is the larger company too, so they probably can influence VW if they want right?
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VW does not need Apple for automated driving.

Perhaps not, but maybe their car would be better with Apple tech than without Apple tech.

Nobody “needs” anything. But it doesn’t take much imagination to envision having a superior human interface instead of whatever VW human interface for the navigation system. Just look back 10 years ago to present day - all car makers have lagged in navigation system human interface when compared to iPhone

 

[cube]

To get a superior computer human interface would be one reason, right? Compare any car makers navigation system to Siri enabled maps navigation system. Of course Google does it too, with a few dirty hooks attached to how it works, but you get the point I’m sure.

Apple is the larger company too, so they probably can influence VW if they want right?

No need for CHI either.
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Perhaps not, but maybe their car would be better with Apple tech than without Apple tech.

The cars could still run BlackBerry's real-time QNX OS, and have both CarPlay and Android Auto interfaces like many do now. No need for a JV.

 

[Black Tiger]

Why even bother? Tesla is going to be far ahead of any car Apple could put out. They've missed their chance.

I remember the same comments made with regards to Blackberry while the iPhone was rumoured to be in development.

 

[Ted13]

If Tesla has any advantages, it hasn't shown up in profits or sales. Terrible business as it stands today. That's all.

I'm guilty of blaming Amazon for not having any profits quarter after quarter, for many years. That criticism didn't age well.
Also, as another poster mentioned, profit is not Musk's goal - he is only interested in replacing fossil fuels with renewable energy - if some other companies EVs end up wining, he is fine, so long as the oil industry dies.
Really, unless Tesla goes bankrupt, criticizing its lack of profits is a losing proposition.

 

[bayelrey80]

Why even bother? Tesla is going to be far ahead of any car Apple could put out. They've missed their chance.

Huh??????? No they haven't. Electric smart driving cars haven't dominated the market, Tesla's are notoriously unreliable, have quality control issue especially related to fit and finish and paint quality, and car infotainment can still be improved upon. And Apple has WAYYYYYYYYYYYY more cash than Tesla and that's not remotely debateable. Tesla is stuck in the luxury car segment, still sketch to take long trips in an electric car and EVERYBODY is waiting for battery tech to advance. Plenty of time for Apple to come into the fold. BTW Apple's niche would be smart/autonomous driving which Tesla hasn't nailed. It's also possible Apple could do autonomous driving and combined with car infotainment, partner with a car company with greater manufacturing capability than Tesla.