German Report Says 'Apple Car' Could Arrive in Form of Electric Van

[Baymowe335]

I take it you're new to the Tesla bashing thing. These arguments have been echoed for over a decade now - they're quite stale.

The Truth About Cars ran a series called "Tesla Death Watch" back in 2008, because, supposedly, Tesla was going to implode any moment. Here's their first post:

https://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2...dont-plan-to-build-any-cars-for-another-year/

Tesla isn't some small player anymore. They're the 13th most common brand in the US, with 2% of the market and growing rapidly. The players at the top shift back and forth between 6% and 12%, so Tesla is certainly on the brink of their league if not already in it.

If all those other companies "understand" electric vehicles, why aren't they building them in any significant quantities?

It's simple - it's an extremely similar reason to why the iPod never faced any significant challenge during its entire life. The iPod locked up the entire supply chain for small hard-drives - it took ~5 years for supplies to reach the point that competitors could get their hands on volumes anything like what Apple was using for the iPod. By that point, Apple had pivoted into the iPhone already. Similarly, Tesla has a massive lead on battery supply chains.

That's just one reason Tesla crushes the competition. There's at least a dozen others.

Keep telling yourself that. Tesla has survived because investors are willing to put up the money while they lose money, but it will be about earnings in the end.

You think BMW is going to just let Tesla take their business? I don’t even think Tesla is in the top 10 of strongest or desirable car brands. There are many more desirable brands with incredible manufacturing prowess.

The trouble with Tesla is that they aren’t making something that’s ready for prime time, so comparing it to the iPod isn’t the same.

Gas cars are still more convenient, economical, and desirable in most cases. Electricity isn’t free or clean.

When electric cars are a thing, Tesla will face intense competition from frankly better brands. Electric vehicles are just a small business right now.

Tesla has zero manufacturing prowess. They are still learning how to make cars. Again, their entire production facility is something Toyota basically threw away

They aren’t doing anything amazing. They are making cars at the end of the day and doing so unprofitably most quarters. They are losing subsidies soon too.

Tesla has a long road ahead and has to keep doing it. It’s a hugely capital intensive business.

Selling more cars is actually bad from a cash flow perspective.

 

[Bin Cook]

Why even bother? Tesla is going to be far ahead of any car Apple could put out. They've missed their chance.

Really don't get the Tesla thing. Was initially intrigued by them based on the claims of miles per charge, but having seen one in the flesh, it's a farce. It does more miles than a Nissan Leaf simply because the vehicle is the size of a Ford Transit van (lucky I saw them side by side in the parking lot). They are completely unsuitable for UK roads.

There is no secret to what Tesla is doing. They are just putting bigger batteries in the vehicles. Apple can do that if they make a van. That would make more sense than what Tesla have done (well in UK terms). Tesla cars are like sticking Gulliver in Lilliput - they look ridiculous on our roads.

 

[AppleScruff1]

Keep telling yourself that. Tesla has survived because investors are willing to put up the money while they lose money, but it will be about earnings in the end.

You think BMW is going to just let Tesla take their business? I don’t even think Tesla is in the top 10 of strongest or desirable car brands. There are many more desirable brands with incredible manufacturing prowess.

The trouble with Tesla is that they aren’t make something that’s ready for prime time, so comparing it to the iPod isn’t the same.

Gas cars are still more convenient, economical, and desirable in most cases. Electricity isn’t free or clean.

When electric cars are a thing, Tesla will face intense competition from frankly better brands. Eectric vehicles are just a small business right now.

Tesla has zero manufacturing prowess. They are still learning how to make cars. Again, their entire production facility is something Toyota basically threw away

They aren’t doing anything amazing. They are making cars at the end of the day and doing so unprofitably most quarters. They are losing subsidies soon too.

Tesla has a long road ahead and has to keep doing it. It’s a hugely capital intensive business.

Tesla is at the cutting edge of electric cars. Hate them all you want.

 

[riverfreak]

Just imagine for one moment all of the autonomous Apple vans parked around Silicon Valley, mobile housing for homeless engineers. Beautiful.

 

[Baymowe335]

Tesla is at the cutting edge of electric cars. Hate them all you want.

They still need to make money. Small player. Their manufacturing is not even in the top 10 of cutting edge.

BMW destroys them.

 

[lazyrighteye]

Why even bother? Tesla is going to be far ahead of any car Apple could put out. They've missed their chance.

They said that about IBM.
They said that about Nokia.
They said that about [insert successful company here].

Apple has done pretty well valuing best over first. I’m ok with that.

 

[AppleScruff1]

They still need to make money. Small player. Their manufacturing is not even in the top 10 of cutting edge.

BMW destroys them.

They destroy BMW and everyone else with electric vehicles. Like him or not, Elon Musk is a visionary and innovator.

 

[TheShadowKnows!]

I take it you're new to the Tesla bashing thing. These arguments have been echoed for over a decade now - they're quite stale.

The Truth About Cars ran a series called "Tesla Death Watch" back in 2008, because, supposedly, Tesla was going to implode any moment. Here's their first post:

https://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2...dont-plan-to-build-any-cars-for-another-year/

Tesla isn't some small player anymore. They're the 13th most common brand in the US, with 2% of the market and growing rapidly. The players at the top shift back and forth between 6% and 12%, so Tesla is certainly on the brink of their league if not already in it.

If all those other companies "understand" electric vehicles, why aren't they building them in any significant quantities?

It's simple - it's an extremely similar reason to why the iPod never faced any significant challenge during its entire life. The iPod locked up the entire supply chain for small hard-drives - it took ~5 years for supplies to reach the point that competitors could get their hands on volumes anything like what Apple was using for the iPod. By that point, Apple had pivoted into the iPhone already. Similarly, Tesla has a massive lead on battery supply chains.

That's just one reason Tesla crushes the competition. There's at least a dozen others.

Dude, the "real" players are becoming electrified.
Until now, Tesla has had easy sailing without all-electric, real-player competition.

But now count-in Audi, MB, BMW, with their forthcoming all-electric onslaught, all to show by the turn of this decade -- and that is just the "Germans".

And add the new, standards-based, high-power commercial infrastructure (150 kW, 300kW future) to remove all range-anxiety.

Tesla will now have to put on the "big-boy pants" and compete head-to-head, without Federal subsidies.
Good luck to them.

Just my view.

 

[dorkus-maximus]

Because nothing is more trendy or cool then a van.

"Cool" cars exist to ease the drudgery of sitting behind the wheel of a car just to get somewhere. If my vehicle is doing the driving for me, I'd want enough room to get up, move around, get some work done, watch a movie, take a nap, etc. The true value of self-driving vehicles will become evident when people who now spend their time driving will instead spend their time productively or at least enjoyably. Tough to do that in a self-driving Tesla, strapped behind a wheel you don't even turn.

It's a good thing the horse-drawn carriage existed before the car. Otherwise the first car would've been designed like a horse on wheels. At least the automotive industry started with "horseless carriages" rather than "motorized horses."

 

[Baymowe335]

They destroy BMW and everyone else with electric vehicles. Like him or not, Elon Musk is a visionary and innovator.

Yeah, lol...we'll see how they do when other companies start caring about electric. Market is not there yet. Electric cars are a step backward in too many areas right now.

I like Elon Musk.
[doublepost=1550775978][/doublepost]

Dude, the "real" players are becoming electrified.
Until now, Tesla has had easy sailing without all-electric, real-player competition.

But now count-in Audi, MB, BMW, with their forthcoming all-electric onslaught, all to show by the turn of this decade -- and that is just the "Germans".

And add the new, standards-based, high-power commercial infrastructure (150 kW, 300kW future) to remove all range-anxiety.

Tesla will now have to put on the "big-boy pants" and compete head-to-head, without Federal subsidies.
Good luck to them.

Just my view.

Tesla hasn't had to compete without the subsidies yet OR face real competition because others are doing what 99% of the market still want.

Totally agree that things will change drastically.

The bad part for Tesla is they've basically failed up to this point as a company.

 

[Stella]

but self-driving cars will NEVER happen without modifying the actual infrastructure.

Right now self-driving electric cars from Tesla have a higher death rate than motorcycles.

Self driving cars are supposed to use the existing infrastructure, and self driving cars will almost certainly happen. The human driven car will be over in the next, say, 50 years.

Telsa do not make commercial self driving cars. Auto Pilot is not fully self driving, and doesn't come close to autonomous self driving.

 

[Cosmosent]

1.) License the "square design" (i.e., 86mm x 86mm, where bore = stroke) 4.0-liter V8 from Porsche, the one they use in their Panamara GTS, strip-off one of the turbos to cut down on cost, & reduce the Max turbo pressure to 10.0 psi to cut down on turbo lag.

2.) Put that in a RWD sports sedan with a 110" wheelbase, 180" overall length, & with Hydraulic-assist power steering.

3.) Load it up with appropriate AAPL tech, & sell it for under $50K USD.

4.) Set the key specs @:

* 400 hp @ 6250 rpm

* 400 lb-feet @ 1800-4500 rpm

* curb weight = ~3300 lbs

* 0-60: ~4 sec

* 1/4-mile: ~12 sec


Would sell like Popcorn !

AAPL would benefit much more from a Flagship-caliber sports sedan than any EL van !

 

[cube]

I will not buy a car from a newbie automaker.

 

[AppleScruff1]

Yeah, lol...we'll see how they do when other companies start caring about electric. Market is not there yet. Electric cars are a step backward in too many areas right now.

I like Elon Musk.
[doublepost=1550775978][/doublepost]
Tesla hasn't had to compete without the subsidies yet OR face real competition because others are doing what 99% of the market still want.

Totally agree that things will change drastically.

The bad part for Tesla is they've basically failed up to this point as a company.

The good thing is they are leading the way with battery technology among other things. And ha ha, he cares about electric cars while the big boys don’t.

 

[UltimateSyn]

Don’t know why everyone is downing the concept of a van.. personally, if the thing is autonomous, I want as much space inside as possible! Who wants to be cooped up in a tiny sedan if you’re being cheauferred around the country? I want the thing to be like a living room in there! So the two front chairs can swivel back and a table can come up in the middle. Similar to the VW electric van concept.

Or a bed! If the tech is really at that level, and there’s no supervision required, make the thing as close to a camper as possible. You’re not the one who has to maneuver it!

 

[Gudi]

That is EXACTLY what the future of self-driving cars will look like.

We all remember the episode of Carpool Karaoke when Arnold Schwarzenegger took the Jony Ive cap and Siri went totally mad.

And yes, this is an accurate depiction of how an autonomous car would behave.

 

[Heineken]

I will not buy a car from a newbie automaker.

If that car happens one day it will be built buy someone else. Apple is not going to build a car factory. It’s a nightmare.

 

[cube]

If that car happens one day it will be built buy someone else. Apple is not going to build a car factory. It’s a nightmare.

Even if they outsource it to the Germans I will not buy it.

 

[jamezr]

Because nothing is more trendy or cool then a van.

and an electric mini van at that!

 

[AppleScruff1]

Even if they outsource it to the Germans I will not buy it.

It would be too expensive to outsource to the Germans. Apple needs to make a bigger profit than the other automakers.

 

[Heineken]

Even if they outsource it to the Germans I will not buy it.

I will keep my options open. I like to see it before making judgment usually unless it's Samsung fold then it is kinda obvious.

 

[Nanotyrns]

The car Apple wants to make is what is going to be your demise as a ride share driver on the weekends. The delivery space is also a huge one for groceries etc. Amazon just made. a huge investment in Rivian. The electric car and machine learning businesses along with semiconductor firms are likely to have the largest areas of growth in the next decade.

Amazon is aiming to cut it's carbon footprint in half by the year 2030 using such electric vehicles. You of all people being in the ride sharing game should know this. Have you not got the message that Uber's ultimate goal is to not need your services ASAP?

Oh yeah and let's be clear -- rideshare is not what I want to do full time. On your point though I read an article once making it clear that Elon Musk and his self driving semi is not coming for car enthusiasts and their Mustangs but instead for road freight and their jobs. Self driving ride-share is waaaaay down the road though. There are a lot of technical/legal issues to be worked out before they can just be set loose on the road. Almost certainly at first they will be akin to buses working well defined routes that have been designed to minimize the potential for accidents and car vs. pedestrian issues.

I just don't see Apple entering that space. All the talk is that they might not be making a car but just the software but they are clearly not interested in letting someone else make the hardware. They might be interested in delivering you the 2022 iPod Nano from an Apple Store but groceries? They couldn't possibly make money off of that.

All of this could just be R&D. Sometimes they develop ideas and concepts that just sit there waiting to come together in a product sometime down the road.

 

[cube]

I will keep my options open. I like to see it before making judgment usually unless it's Samsung fold then it is kinda obvious.

Sansung Fold would be OK for $300, except for Android.

 

[longhorn2004]

What Tesla does well that other automakers admit (VW most recently, Google it) are the lower costs of battery production. Again, if it was so easy, the masters of mass production automakers would have done it. Even GM admitted they lost what? $9K on every Bolt. What good is it make 2 million EVs (looking at you VW) and loose money on everyone one of them.

Lets see how well the VW IDs, Audi EVs and Porsche Taycans sell. And now we are to believe their dealers are going to be pushing EVs that have virtually no mx, so forget profits from the Service Centers, over the ICE products that are more profitable on the back end.

 

[cube]

You need to live in a house to buy an EV.