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Germanization of the English grammar

man you are stubborn:p I don't think the name Normandy infers germanic or scandinavian at all. I believe the ethnicity of the Normans to be Celtic, the language to be romantic and perhaps the name of the region comes from the teutons but I don't remember that for sure. But their ethnicity is a majority of Celtic, of that I'm positive. My Magyar social sciences professor taught me that. "So gude evenink, so nyce to see you agaiyn..."
 
thechidz said:
man you are stubborn:p I don't think the name Normandy infers germanic or scandinavian at all. I believe the ethnicity of the Normans to be Celtic, the language to be romantic and perhaps the name of the region comes from the teutons but I don't remember that for sure. But their ethnicity is a majority of Celtic, of that I'm positive. My Magyar social sciences professor taught me that. "So gude evenink, so nyce to see you agaiyn..."
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I don't see why you are arguing this. Across the UK and France it is accepted fact that the Norman tribes invaded the area that became known as Normandy in the 9th and 10th centuries from their original home, pushing the existing Frankish and Breton inhabitants south and westwards. The Duchy of Normandy itself was born from a Scandinavian settlement near modern day Rouen in 911AD, something that is backed up by both writings at the time and archaeological digs of the area. The founding of the Duchy by treaty between the Normans and the King of the Franks ended 70 years of constant warfare and raiding since the Vikings had originally begun settling the area.

You are right that the Frankish King Charles the Bald had originally established Celtic Lords in modern day Normandy to defend the Kingdom of the Franks against Viking incursions, but the strategy completely failed. The Normans were ethnically Viking with a bit of Celtic interbreeding, not the other way round.
 
thechidz said:
...Mainland Normandy was integrated into the Kingdom of France in 1204...
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At which point the Duke of Normandy, having lost this territory to the French, remained the King of England. His loyal subjects in the Channel Islands chose (wisely) not to become part of France and remain loyal to their Duke and he allowed them their independence of government from France and England, which is why we toast QE2 when she's round for dinner as "Long live the Queen, our Duke".

Our official language was still French until the 1960s and you can still speak French in court here as ALL advocates(equivolent I think to a UK barrister) must be fluent in both English and French[/trivia]

I love the history of how languages developed, I think to say any language isn't just a moshmamish of word 'n' stuff is just to ignore how fantastic communication between cultures has been over the last few thousand years.
 
North in French is Nord. So Normandy could be just referring to North France in this instance and not necessarily people of the North. I might be mistaken, and my memory may not be serving me in my old age:p but I don't know why I remember so vividly reading/studying that the Normans were Celts run out of Wales? (perhaps) by the Anglo-Saxons and that the Norman invasions were in fact a passion of sorts to return to their homeland. I believe I also read somewhere that many believe the legendary King Arthur to have actually been a Norman who lead many of these conquests. Of course that endlessly debatable, but an interesting discussion none the less...

edit: I remember now I had seen the King Arthur thing on the history channel, which is about as viable as wiki:p
 
thechidz said:
North in French is Nord.
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Funnily enough Nord is also the Norwegian word for North :p

And it should be remembered that in 10th century Normandy nobody spoke French. Instead everyone would have spoken a mix of the now defunct Old Frankish language (a German dialect), Gallo-Romance (the ancestor of modern French), Norse and Latin.

EDIT : Just checked, and unsurprisingly Nord also means North in both Danish and Swedish too.
 
thechidz said:
...I don't know why I remember so vividly reading/studying that the Normans were Celts run out of Wales? (perhaps) by the Anglo-Saxons...
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I don't think the Anglo-Saxons ran the celts out of Wales, I don't think the Anglo-Saxons got as far as Wales, which is why it retained so much of it's Celtic influence... but don't quote me as I haven't studied this academically.
 
skunk said:
Other European languages and language families include Basque (an "isolate", unrelated to any other known language), Maltese, Altaic, and Caucasian.
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Basque is interesting. Don't many people group it into the romance languages? I don't know... when I was in Barcelona people looked at me sideways when I attempted to speak castellano. The separation of castellano and catalan from Rome is an intense topic there.

btw... has anybody played Europa Universalis? its a fun game and a neat way to learn about the different regions historically around the world. Probably not completely accurate but still pretty good
 
mpw said:
I don't think the Anglo-Saxons ran the celts out of Wales, I don't think the Anglo-Saxons got as far as Wales, which is why it retained so much of it's Celtic influence... but don't quote me as I haven't studied this academically.
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You are entirely correct, Herr Professor. As I posted above, Brittany was settled by Britons displaced by Germanic tribes coming into Britain from the East. The Anglo Saxons did not displace the Welsh (the people) or the Cornwelsh (the southern people), but the population increased due to refugees from further East, resulting in a migration of Brythonic people over the Channel.
 
thechidz said:
Basque is interesting. Don't many people group it into the romance languages? I don't know... when I was in Barcelona people looked at me sideways when I attempted to speak castellano. The separation of castellano and catalan from Rome is an intense topic there.
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Basque has nothing to do with Catalan. Catalan is indeed a Romance language, being a kind of "Dog Latin" spoken both north and south of the Pyrenees. Basque is spoken mainly in the western Pyrenees adjacent to the Atlantic and the Bay of Biscay, and is unrelated to any known language, probably being pre-Indo-European.
 
mpw said:
I don't think the Anglo-Saxons ran the celts out of Wales, I don't think the Anglo-Saxons got as far as Wales, which is why it retained so much of it's Celtic influence... but don't quote me as I haven't studied this academically.
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I didn't mean to infer that I thought all the celts were run out of Wales. I'm sure what ever story I read about was probably a theory from a minority of scholars, but in short it went that the Normans were a group of celts that had been driven off the island and through culture, art and song had maintained their connection to the homeland until they finally began to return through conquest. Anyway, thats paraphrased but I think you get the gist.

skunk said:
Basque has nothing to do with Catalan. Catalan is indeed a Romance language, being a kind of "Dog Latin" spoken both north and south of the Pyrenees. Basque is spoken mainly in the western Pyrenees adjacent to the Atlantic and the Bay of Biscay, and is unrelated to any known language, probably being pre-Indo-European.
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sorry, didn't mean to suggest that Basque was some how related to Catalan. I just let my thoughts run together I guess.
 
skunk said:
being a kind of "Dog Latin" spoken both north and south of the Pyrenees.
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And across the Western Mediterranean islands from Eivissa to Sardenya :)

The sideways looks in Barcelona would have most likely been because you were speaking the Latin American variant of Castellano. If you speak the Spanish variant people are more accepting.
 
thechidz said:
I didn't mean to infer that I thought all the celts were run out of Wales. I'm sure what ever story I read about was probably a theory from a minority of scholars, but in short it went that the Normans were a group of celts that had been driven off the island and through culture, art and song had maintained their connection to the homeland until they finally began to return through conquest. Anyway, thats paraphrased but I think you get the gist.
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May I suggest you check your facts before repeating half-baked ideas from a "minority of scholars" who appear not to have the faintest idea what they are talking about? The etymology of Brittany/Bretagne and Norman/Normand is well known and well attested, and the movements of the peoples involved well documented in contemporary records. You are conflating (Gaelic) Bretons and (Nordic) Normans on the one hand, and Catalans and Basques on the other.
 
skunk said:
May I suggest you check your facts before repeating half-baked ideas from a "minority of scholars" who appear not to have the faintest idea what they are talking about? The etymology of Brittany/Bretagne and Norman/Normand is well known and well attested, and the movements of the peoples involved well documented in contemporary records. You are conflating (Gaelic) Bretons and (Nordic) Normans on the one hand, and Catalans and Basques on the other.
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ass. did you read my reply? I wasn't associating the catalans with the basques. And studying a theory in Vienna about the possibility of the Normans being celtic gives me every right to post it on this forum, so bugger off...

being bi-polar doesn't give you the right to act so pompous
 
thechidz said:
ass. did you read my reply? I wasn't associating the catalans with the basques. And studying a theory in Vienna about the possibility of the Normans being celtic gives me every right to post it on this forum, so bugger off...
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A link would be more useful than name-calling.

being bi-polar doesn't give you the right to act so pompous
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Are you bi-polar, or am I?
 
thechidz said:
I don't have links to the textbooks I read in Vienna, the internet is not all-knowing. If you can call my professor's beliefs half-bajked, then you can take a little derogation:rolleyes:
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Calling a third party's idea half-baked is within forum etiquette. Personal insults are not.

I know it when I see it:p
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If it were true it would not be funny. As it is not, it is merely puzzling.
 
skunk said:
Are you bi-polar, or am I?
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Would you settle for passive-aggressive??

You can apply it to whomever you wish.
Holysheep.gif
 
Germanisation of English?

What gives? I was waiting on someone to raise this topic.
 
I'm new to Macs , and I'm not sure if this is the right place. I have an English-language keyboard , but want to be able to use certain foreign-language letters eg German umlaut , Slavonic s , c , z , etc with a hacek ( you see what I mean ? ). Can I do this on my Mac ?
 
Steponas said:
I'm new to Macs , and I'm not sure if this is the right place. I have an English-language keyboard , but want to be able to use certain foreign-language letters eg German umlaut , Slavonic s , c , z , etc with a hacek ( you see what I mean ? ). Can I do this on my Mac ?
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Jä, go to system preferences and select the international icon, then the "input menu" button. there click on the german keyboard option (and/or czech, and/or any other you use).

i recommend also to select the "show input menu in menu bar", at the bottom, so you can switch directly from the menu bar on the top right (where the clock is). to select the 'keyboard viewer' can be useful too.
 
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