Germany Passes Law Forcing Apple to Open Up iPhone's NFC Chip to Apple Pay Rivals, But Loophole May Exist

[LorenK]

You know, most people here in Germany do indeed prefer cash. And for those who don't (like me), Apple Pay is extremely limited and mostly works with credit cards only. It doesn't even allow PayPal.
And who tf pays for groceries with their credit cards? I never head from anyone here besides Tourists pay with their credit cards for groceries or gasoline.
If we use electronic payments, we expect it to be withdrawn from our bank accounts the next day, not accumulate on a credit card waiting to be paid next month with fees.
With my android device however, I can use Google Pay or Paypal with NFC and choose where they payment comes from.... girocard, credit card, paypal credit...
Some banks do promise to introduce Apple Pay in 2020, but until then, let's see. And even though iPhones are quite popular here in Germany, Apple Pay is not interesting to most because it's so limited here.

So then why does the legislature even care about ApplePay? Suggests that some hanky panky is going on.

 

[macfacts]

Straight up lie.

_Everone_ says the reason apple doesn't open up NFC is because of security problems.

Example: https://forums.macrumors.com/thread...-but-loophole-may-exist.2211484/post-27982927

 

[shplock]

What are you talking about?

So next Apple should block bluetooth connections for anything other than AirPods and Apple Watches to prevent "rivals somehow being able to profit"?

It's a NFC chip the customer paid for, not "their [Apple's] platform"

Up next: Dropbox banned from using internet provided by Apple's WiFi/cellular chips because of security concerns and you can pay for iCloud anyway

Except that Bluetooth is an open standard whereas Apple Pay is solution that was created by apple that uses NFC standard.
So whilst you are correct in theory you are wrong in reality.
The reason being that Apple would have to let any rival get a free ride by allowing them to use Apple Pay because Apple Pay is baked into the NFC by way of using the Secure Enclave which any rival would have to be able to use.
Put it this way, would you let me use your house to cook my food and use your energy to do so whilst I pay you nothing?
No, you would not. Enough said.

 

[Rigby]

Wrong. NFC is integrated into the Secure Enclave on Apple devices. It’s not some “add-on“ component like a Bluetooth or WiFi chip.

Apple absolutely has the capability to open up access to NFC. They have actually reluctantly done this already in limited ways. Here's a bit more background:

All Twelves: A12 Bionic powered NFC

Many people were disappointed at WWDC18 when Apple did not announce any changes to Core NFC. What people really wanted was all 3 NFC Forum defined NFC Modes: Card Emulation, Reader/Writer and …

atadistance.net

 

[JGIGS]

And what would this option be giving you that Apple Pay doesn’t? Is there something you could do that you can’t do now with Apple Pay? Or is this just about someone else wanting to collect the pennies Apple gets per transaction?

Not everyone who uses an iphone lives in an apple ecosystem. You can live in a total Google ecosystem if you want to on an iphone. You know, because google actually lets other platforms use their applications and makes apps for other platforms. Yes yes, Apple makes some but they are all the profit applications.

It's also an anti-competition issue and could violate antitrust laws.

It also gives people the ability to not give that information to Apple if they don't want to. I can see this especially for someone coming from android who's been using google or samsung pay not wanting to put there information out to there again to another company in Apple.

I'm not arguing what company is better at keeping that info safe and private but you’re safer limiting how many entities having your financial info. So I think it's more about someone knowing about your pennies then who's collecting them from your financial service providers.

There's also nothing wrong with you being able to choose, especially if other companies are offering more favourable deals on there pay service or you simply prefer using a different one.

 

[0092762]

I bet some German legislator was peeved at not being able to unlock his BMW with his iPhone, when it works with Android phones. But then, once you get in it, BMW only has Carplay, no Android.

I don’t see any issue with Apple allowing third parties to access NFC through an API like they do with almost everything else.
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[macfacts]

I would argue that it is the other way round. Google is lousy at security, they had to call a specialist security firm into sort out the overwhelming amount of apps on play store that are malware.
Apple have had no such issues.

When an app shows an ad and is labeled as malware, I think the issue is overblown.

 

[realtuner]

Apple absolutely has the capability to open up access to NFC. They have actually reluctantly done this already in limited ways. Here's a bit more background:

All Twelves: A12 Bionic powered NFC

Many people were disappointed at WWDC18 when Apple did not announce any changes to Core NFC. What people really wanted was all 3 NFC Forum defined NFC Modes: Card Emulation, Reader/Writer and …

atadistance.net

Had you actually read that article you’d understand the difference.
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_Everone_ says the reason apple doesn't open up NFC is because of security problems.

Example: https://forums.macrumors.com/thread...-but-loophole-may-exist.2211484/post-27982927

You originally stated Apple wasn’t as good at security as Google.

That is patently false.

 

[XXPP]

It's funny that the Germans just took care of it. This is the most technologically backward country in Europe. People are afraid to use ATM cards here. And the most indebted banking system. Duetsche Bank and Commerzbank are technical bankruptcy.

 

[chucker23n1]

Yes, a so called nice move? Now, let's start forcing businesses to do other things now. Next we need to force Google to remove any Google applications that are installed by default on their Pixel phone or Android phones. After that, remove Microsoft Edge from Windows, as that's anti-competitive, after that, SAP could be considered anti-competitive too. Also what about the default camera application on phones, that's anti-competitive. Every single default application installed where an alternative is available on the application store could be considered anti-competitive. I guess Germany/EU better get busy, I'm sure there's several trillion they can make which should boost Germany's economy.

A slippery slope political argument is never quite as thoughtful as it sounds.

 

[Alwis]

I heard people in Germany prefer using cash over credit/debit cards and certainly over Apple/Google/Samsung Pay. Is that true?

Yes, that is mostly true, here in Germany cash is still king! Most people have debit cards and use it for bigger transactions. Credit cards are less common and a lot of people do not have one und you can not assume, that they are accepted in every store. The normal daily purchases is mostly cash.

 

[XXPP]

And even though iPhones are quite popular here in Germany, Apple Pay is not interesting to most because it's so limited here.

It is not Apple Pay is limited, only Germany is the most primitive and backward country in Europe.

 

[PugMaster]

Not really.

 

[subi257]

Because not all merchants support it - isn’t that sort of obvious?

Then go to a different merchant.

 

[turbineseaplane]

Then go to a different merchant.

That's a non-starter (and you know that - c'mon man)

 

[I7guy]

Apple doesn't care about misleading customers with specifications.

They advertise the HomePod as "Bluetooth 5.0". They don't say users are locked out of using it to stream music from non-Apple devices and it's only there to help with Apple-only setup.

HomePod

HomePod mini takes up no space yet delivers room-filling sound. HomePod is a breakthrough high-fidelity speaker. Both help you multitask with Siri.

www.apple.com

Since when do companies have to advertise what their product DOESN’T DO?
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Why would anyone want to use anything other than apple apps.

If you have an iPhone...guess what?

Apple isn't as good at security as google. Android phones can handle google pay and Samsung pay at the same time.

What does one have to do with another? (Hint: nothing and the first and second sentences are disconnected.)

Notwithstanding there is no credible evidence that google is better at security than Apple, given gmail has been hacked.

 

[Winni]

Apple should pull out from Germany in retaliation.

That would be a loss for Apple, not Germany. Apple isn't remotely as big or important here as it is in the US -- Germany very much is a PC (Windows, Linux) and Android market. Apple's products are mostly regarded as "lifestyle products" or "expensive toys", but not as serious tools. We still believe in good engineering, not good marketing.

 

[deeddawg]

I’m sure Germany is such a major source of iPhone revenue...

If I were Apple I would either #1 turn off all NFC on phones sold into Germany or #2 just cease selling any phones in Germany.

 

[Classie]

This is the banks pushing the government. They are afraid of Apple innovating them into losing money... or at least not making as much.
The end costumer won’t benefit from opening up neither the NFC chip or the AppStore. Apple is doing a tremendous!

 

[macfacts]

Had you actually read that article you’d understand the difference.
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You originally stated Apple wasn’t as good at security as Google.

That is patently false.

So you acknowledge that apple is keeping out digital payment competitors for reasons other than security concerns.

 

[realtuner]

So you acknowledge that apple is keeping out digital payment competitors for reasons other than security concerns.

No I'm not, and stop making things up you think I said.

Apple is superior to Google for privacy and security. Absolute fact.

 

[inplainview]

Apple should pull out from Germany in retaliation.

Dumbest post of the day. Congrats...

 

[chabig]

Because not all merchants support it - isn’t that sort of obvious?

I don't think that's possible. If they take contactless payment, Apple Pay works.

 

[Puppuccino]

This is ridiculous, I bought an iPhone because I want the walled garden experience. I don’t want Google, Samsung and other third parties looking at my financial information because they don’t need it.

As someone else pointed out, why am I not allowed to use the card of one bank to withdraw funds from another? Because security provisions. I don’t want to be charged a fee for using a cash machine but that’s still a thing... so much anti-competitiveness out there and Apple isn’t the bad guy here.

 

[macfacts]

I don’t want Google, Samsung and other third parties looking at my financial information because they don’t need it.

Where does it say you have to install or use any Samsung or google payment app?