Got a tip for us?
Let us know
Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.
Germany Passes Law Forcing Apple to Open Up iPhone's NFC Chip to Apple Pay Rivals, But Loophole May Exist
- Thread starter MacRumors
- Start date
- Sort by reaction score
So how would this work in practice? Should Apple disclose the protocols for the Secure Enclave? Wouldn’t that no longer make it secure? Do they have to invest resources to build an SDK so that their competitors more easily compete with them on their own platform?
None of this seems well thought out.
None of this seems well thought out.
Governments forcing those who invent to turn over their inventions to others....nothing to see here.
who is John Galt
who is John Galt
Even if they are forced to do this, will probably not be as seamless experience as Apple Pay. One would probably have to launch a specific payment app first.
Apple could also provide a 2nd NFC chip which is separate from the one using the secure enclave.
Apple could also provide a 2nd NFC chip which is separate from the one using the secure enclave.
Those pesky Germans just can’t resist meddling in absolutely everything.
Thank heavens the UK will soon no longer be under the thumb of the United States of Europe.
Thank heavens the UK will soon no longer be under the thumb of the United States of Europe.
It wouldn’t be the first time something like that happened. FaceTime in the UAE is illegal, so Apple has had that feature disabled there for years.
But apparently the UK need someone to guide them, they have been discussing for months and still don‘t know what they even want.
I use WeChat Pay and it is great. I also have used Google Pay while i am on Andorid... So why would anyone not want use anything other than Apple Pay?
[automerge]1573868362[/automerge]
Sure. Please, Apple should set people in Germany free from Apple's Walled Garden....It is great
Ultimately, if Apple can prove that it'll create a security risk, I think they'll be able to fight it off. Though, if Germany's government can promise that they will heavily punish the banks if they do anything wrong (and I doubt that they could), then I think Apple should probably open it up completely (it's already open through Core NFC).
I think that is great idea. Forcing Apple let use install Android on their iPhone. I would love Android on iPhone... And Hackintosh has already existed (and it isn't like Apple never allowed Mac runs on comptiable hardware before)
Socialism at its best. Bureaucrats trying to teach entrepreneurs how to run their businesses.
Why don't I just give my house keys to the park ranger so he can distribute them to all the heroin addicts in the park.
Just make ApplePay unavailable in Germany. Problem solved.
You're welcome to do whatever you like with your NFC chips. You can even buy two and make dangly earrings out of them.
Not sure what you are talking about. What does Bluetooth connections have to do with Apple security stance on nfc payments?
Sure it’s your phone, but the software is locked down. Hopefully one understands that at purchase time, but then again, this is MR.
Hypothetical situations lead to amusing conclusions.
[automerge]1573883360[/automerge]
That’s true except I like how I can use Apple Pay to purchase goods and services on-line instead of using a credit card. Much more secure and faster.
Last edited:
Come on. It's not about opening Apple Pay to others. It's about making the NFC chip accessible to others. So it has nothing to do with security concerns about ApplePay.
BTW. I'd really like to have an open NFC chip in my iPhone to unlock my car. Unfortunately this only works with Android phones.
BTW. I'd really like to have an open NFC chip in my iPhone to unlock my car. Unfortunately this only works with Android phones.
Final Goal : Surveillance. IT is neither competition nor money-related.
Germany govt WANT to surveil its people and tourists or any other kind of people on its soil but they do not want to place/give any research cost to that field instead of using LAW to force any tech companies to compel. The govt DO NOT like to give an impression to the world that Germany is NOT a freedom country. IMO.
Now there are so many projects led by govt and private company to develop some kind of surveillance tools in the world. If Apple Pay open NFC chips to Germany govt by compelling that law, Germany govt can use the surveillance tools to watch any people/radicals. Apple iPhone can be used by Germany or other so-called-freedom-country later as a Surveillance Tool. That law is not related to any kind of competition at all.
Does the competitive law cover party-A and party-B? Neither Samsung Pay nor Google Pay put a complaints against Apple Pay. Why a middleman like Germany govt suddenly appear?
As a matter of fact, everybody on earth basic need is to purchase; if that technology is open to govt-so-called-competitor, the govt can do that kind of surveillance to its people like somebody purchase fertilizers and bleach and sth. which leads govt to put on / watch that person cos' he/she purchases that kind of raw materials to make sth. [govt. agency assumed], then the govt can then use some kind of algorithm to lead a result that put on surveillance to them.
Apple values privacy, that is no trace. Government likes to trace its people.
I like to see movies like conspiracy movies, for example, Tom Clancy series. So I think. 😁
Germany govt WANT to surveil its people and tourists or any other kind of people on its soil but they do not want to place/give any research cost to that field instead of using LAW to force any tech companies to compel. The govt DO NOT like to give an impression to the world that Germany is NOT a freedom country. IMO.
Now there are so many projects led by govt and private company to develop some kind of surveillance tools in the world. If Apple Pay open NFC chips to Germany govt by compelling that law, Germany govt can use the surveillance tools to watch any people/radicals. Apple iPhone can be used by Germany or other so-called-freedom-country later as a Surveillance Tool. That law is not related to any kind of competition at all.
Does the competitive law cover party-A and party-B? Neither Samsung Pay nor Google Pay put a complaints against Apple Pay. Why a middleman like Germany govt suddenly appear?
As a matter of fact, everybody on earth basic need is to purchase; if that technology is open to govt-so-called-competitor, the govt can do that kind of surveillance to its people like somebody purchase fertilizers and bleach and sth. which leads govt to put on / watch that person cos' he/she purchases that kind of raw materials to make sth. [govt. agency assumed], then the govt can then use some kind of algorithm to lead a result that put on surveillance to them.
Apple values privacy, that is no trace. Government likes to trace its people.
I like to see movies like conspiracy movies, for example, Tom Clancy series. So I think. 😁
No, it is even worse. Cash is still king in a lot of restaurants in Germany. Issue is usually that in an unified Europe they only accept German debitcards. So you find out when you want to pay the bill and then have to look for the nearest ATM. Good luck if you had dinner with a group.
It depends on whether the NFC chip is accessible without the Secure Enclave. If it can, then Apple has to make it available to third-parties, otherwise if it would require to "compromise" the Secure Enclave Apple might have a good argument to be exempt from this regulation.
apple is, as usual, pretty arrogant here.
they want the best of both worlds. they want to use an open standard, but they want it only to work with their devices.
either you use an open standard and treat it as such, or you make your own proprietary one.
they want the best of both worlds. they want to use an open standard, but they want it only to work with their devices.
either you use an open standard and treat it as such, or you make your own proprietary one.
If you take something that is secure, then open it up, your allow potential issues to happen.. in this case spying, harvesting personal info. and selling for adverting purposes.
I bet if Apple did open up NFC we would have allot more app removals for potential breaches..
If Apple is going to open it up, thy better be darn sure no one could get access from for their own.
I bet if Apple did open up NFC we would have allot more app removals for potential breaches..
If Apple is going to open it up, thy better be darn sure no one could get access from for their own.
They can if the want to use Google/Android (far less secure) get an Android device and as for systems developed by banks themselves they are utter crap requiring tags and coded separate card readers etc...
Not fun.
[automerge]1573897030[/automerge]
Apple Pay is disruptive in that its competing with the banks own internal payment systems and reducing banks abilities to make money - Shame !
Yes, because crafting a new law to specifically target a single company doesn't sound like "vendetta" at all.
Just disable Apple Pay in Germany and let the 20% of phone users complain to the elected officials. See how long the legislation lasts.
I have speakers that use NFC. Would I like Apple to enable connection with a tap? Yes. Not having isn't a deal breaker. Most times tapping takes longer than going thru a menu and choosing a Bluetooth speaker.
You buy an Apple device and you get the functionality listed. Don't like it? Buy something else. Your choice.
I have speakers that use NFC. Would I like Apple to enable connection with a tap? Yes. Not having isn't a deal breaker. Most times tapping takes longer than going thru a menu and choosing a Bluetooth speaker.
You buy an Apple device and you get the functionality listed. Don't like it? Buy something else. Your choice.