Germany Urges EU to Require 7 Years of Updates and Repairs for iOS Devices

[jlc1978]

I don't. American companies need the riot act read to them now and then and be forced to comply when it's clear they are abusing their position. The EU is not a push-over when it comes to consumer protection & cannot be ignored.

They'll comply, at least the large ones, but charge EU consumers for it. Why do you think Apple products in teh EU are higher, ex-VAT, than elsewhere? Apple bakes in the costs of the higher protections.

Even so, the protections are not always that great, since you often have to return to the seller, which may not be Apple, and possibly ship to one in a separate country if you bought it while traveling; as well as may have to prove it was a defect and not caused by you.

As for peoples jobs, look to Europe were we are trialing standard basic incomes, four day work weeks, and the world where people don't need to work 40+ hours a week there is still a income and you can top that up with more interesting work than assembling a phone.

Good ideas, but they have to be paid for somehow, through taxes or higher prices. A 4 day work week is fine, but unless productivity stays the same the worker ultimately will make less of the company will hire more people, raising costs and prices, which of course results in inflation eating away any gains made by a lower week at the same pay.

Companies will also shift to lower costs countries. Look at BMW. Chances are your BMW may not be made in München but somewhere else, for example.

 

[ftaok]

Super easy? It’s a 24 steps process for an M1 MBA 2020, including removing the speakers and then having to re-glue them back in place so they don’t rattle. 😋

I stand corrected. I probably shouldn't have said all Macbooks since I didn't even watch an M1 Macbook teardown.

But pretty much all of the newish Intel MB's are just a few screws on teh case. A couple of screws inside. And then the connector cable. The post I was referring to mentioned a 2015 MBP.

 

[Xtir]

Only if Europe pays the US back every penny they got from the Marshall Plan in the equivalent of 2021 dollars. They would still be huddled around campfires in bombed out shells of buildings with very little industry and taking revenge on one another if we hadn't funded the rebuilding of Europe, yet they always want to unfairly restrict American companies these days. Go figure...

The total amount being a mere 12 billion dollar.. already manyfold paid back in trade (deficit)..
History doesn't start at a point in time when you want it..
The EU sets rules for every company, whether it is from the US, EU or else-were.. the rules are the same..

 

[Alex_Mac]

Great proposal! Environmental sustainability should really be one of our highest collective societal priorities.

We can't keep going with this annual phone upgrade madness and overpriced repair prices forever. It's not sustainable.

The FaceID camera on my iPhone XS stopped working the other day. I went to the Apple store and they told me they generally don't do repairs on any sensors on the front array, so all they could do is offer me a replacement phone for like 700 dollars or something crazy.

This is madness. If Apple would just repair the FaceID camera, I would gladly use this phone for another few years.

And all of this for what? To satisfy a narcissistic materialistic driven ego to make us feel better about our pathetic lives. Nothing is more infuriating in this world than seeing home staying moms, retired old folks or just young teens that are upgrading their iPhone every year without really having an actual need of the more advanced camera and computational power that a Pro user or content creators might find useful to have, no sir, they have to upgrade cause their phone service provider offers them the chance to do so and they need to show off to their family members and friends. Just pathetic and criminal the amount of waste that fills up the environment and creates waste lands with all that electronic devices junk that 90% of the consumers don't need.

 

[ftaok]

I agree that support for updates don't have to be the current release and can be bug fixes and security patches to whatever the last supported version was for that device, but I just had to toss two otherwise good smart TVs because Google and Sony couldn't even manage to do that. I think there is some balance that can be struck that allows hardware to stay viable as long a users are willing to deal with features not keeping up with shipping devices. Now that more things are cloud centric and new content types are dependent on new hardware for creating (VR, HDR Video, 3D modeling, etc) Older devices start to age even faster not because of their performance of baseline capabilities, but because of their inability to create, utilize and share new content types. As I said before I think 5 years is about the outside edge of viability for both Apple and the consumer. Even that is an extreme. In the history of the iPhone there have been 5 year windows that saw devices that did and didn't support iMessage or even have front facing cameras. The ecosystem and users benefit most from new features (or even old ones) when the greatest number of people have access to them. Those that just want a camera phone that can send messages and browse the web are probably not worried about feature updates and, sadly, not even security patches. Those that are hanging on to an old phone because it is all their budget will allow and need to access to feature parity with new devices will welcome any update they can get but will probably be frustrated as time goes on.

Sure, but I think that most people (meaning those that don't read websites like Macrumors) just want their devices to perform like it did when they bought them. If new features are added and supported, then fine. I don't think anyone using a 5 year old iPhone expects to be able to handle the newest features like computational photography, etc.

What that particular user might expect is that their device is supported with new security updates as threats are found. And that they can get a replacement battery or new speakers or cameras if their original components crap out. For the most part, people are only changing batteries and screens, in reality. If fixit shops can get access to OEM components, then users have a choice to replace stuff with high quality OEM parts, or then can go with lower cost 3rd party stuff. As it is right now, if you want OEM parts, you have to go to Apple (or to a lesser degree, get used components pulled from other iOS devices).

 

[0924487]

Money (coprporate or otherwise) buys influence in politics and business and everything else from time immemorial. What you describe does not exist in the world. Also, it has nothing to do with a governing body arbitrarily selecting a foreign company to regulatory excess especially when comanpanies within its border engage in far more suspect anti-competitive and anti-consumer practices. See BMW et al.

Not in China, corporate and “Hollywood” (China equivalent) dignitaries are being purged right now in China, if you remember Jack Ma and Alibaba Financial. They are dropping like flies for stepping over their bounds. Or others for using something similar to a pyramid scheme in China’s stock markets.

BMW doesn’t control China’s auto market policies, neither does it have any say in this, and they will think long and hard before uttering a sound that is not in tune with China’s policies. Yet, they have a very extensive presence in China, from R&D to production. Same with Tesla, Mercedes, GM, Nissan, etc.

 

[rpmurray]

*cough* Berlin-Brandenburg Airport (BER) *cough*

 

[ruka.snow]

Good ideas, but they have to be paid for somehow, through taxes or higher prices. A 4 day work week is fine, but unless productivity stays the same the worker ultimately will make less of the company will hire more people, raising costs and prices, which of course results in inflation eating away any gains made by a lower week at the same pay.

Companies will also shift to lower costs countries. Look at BMW. Chances are your BMW may not be made in München but somewhere else, for example.

Four day workweeks have shown time and time again to have increased or equal productivity.

Companies may shift to lower cost countries but that doesn't mean consumers will want to buy it. Consumers will want their own robots building a car and not another nations robots. In a country where everyone has a basic income, you have more consumers as everything they earn over the basic income is completely disposable income.

 

[one more]

I stand corrected. I probably shouldn't have said all Macbooks since I didn't even watch an M1 Macbook teardown.

But pretty much all of the newish Intel MB's are just a few screws on teh case. A couple of screws inside. And then the connector cable. The post I was referring to mentioned a 2015 MBP.

Yep, it was my post about my 2015 MBP battery. That beast is even worse than an M1, with 36 steps and rated as “Difficult” by iFixit crew! 🙈

MacBook Pro 13" Retina Display Early 2015 Battery Replacement

Use this guide to remove the glued-in battery from your MacBook Pro. This is best done with the help of an iFixit battery replacement kit; the...

www.ifixit.com

 

[ftaok]

I'm okay with this, but it seems unfair that Apple is forced to do this, while Samsung gets away with just 2-3 years of support...

If this goes through, Samsung wouldn't be able to get away with it. Apple wouldn't really have to change much, except making parts available to non-authorized shops.'

Germany/EU is not singling out Apple on this one. The article uses Apple to generate clicks. That's all. It's not Apple specific.

 

[ftaok]

Yep, it was my post about my 2015 MBP battery. That beast is even worse than an M1, with 36 steps and rated as “Difficult” by iFixit crew! 🙈

MacBook Pro 13" Retina Display Early 2015 Battery Replacement

Use this guide to remove the glued-in battery from your MacBook Pro. This is best done with the help of an iFixit battery replacement kit; the...

www.ifixit.com

Holy crap. I'm even more uninformed than I had admitted to earlier. Geez, I gotta go get my coffee. Sorry bro.

 

[ruka.snow]

except making parts available to non-authorized shops

I don't see it mentioned nor needed that third parties authorised or not will need a supply of parts. Consumers should be able to repair their phones with parts available for seven years, that does not mean and should not mean that you can take your phone anywhere to get it repaired.

 

[justperry]

How would they define a spare part? Down to every tiny component? Or can manufacturers just name the entire motherboard as a single spare part?

A part is not a resistor/capacitor/cpu or any other component, a part is more like an assembled bit of gear, like a camera unit, a motherboard or other boards, the display, casing and so on.

 

[dogslobber]

That's fine. If put into place, those extra costs Apple incurs (plus margin) would be passed on to purchasers.

Probably but in the long run it'll still be cheaper to keep using the iPhone for seven years than be forced to buy an new iPhone every other year like Apple demands you do.

 

[Madhatter32]

Not in China, corporate and “Hollywood” (China equivalent) dignitaries are being purged right now in China, if you remember Jack Ma and Alibaba Financial. They are dropping like flies for stepping over their bounds. Or others for using something similar to a pyramid scheme in China’s stock markets.

BMW doesn’t control China’s auto market, and they will think very very hard before uttering a sound that is not in tune with China’s policies. Yet, they have a very extensive presence in China, from R&D to production. Same with Tesla, Mercedes, GM, Nissan, etc.

What is going on in China should not be exulted as a good thing done in interests of the people as its motivations have more to do with consolidation of power than anything else. The EU should certainly not strive to be like them through regulatory crackdowns against Apple or anyone else. More importantly, your original comment is not true even in China as the net worth of 153 members of the Chinese parliament and its advisory body controls $650 billion in wealth as reported in the New York Times. Same thing in Russia. These are just the facts. I would suggest that the EU focus on the corporate practices of businesses like BMW before arbitrarily targeting successful American companies.

 

[velocityg4]

Yep, it was my post about my 2015 MBP battery. That beast is even worse than an M1, with 36 steps and rated as “Difficult” by iFixit crew! 🙈

MacBook Pro 13" Retina Display Early 2015 Battery Replacement

Use this guide to remove the glued-in battery from your MacBook Pro. This is best done with the help of an iFixit battery replacement kit; the...

www.ifixit.com

Although that iFixit guide is all wrong with using that nasty adhesive remover, heat and prying.

Dental floss is way easier and cleaner. You just work it under the battery. Then slice right through the adhesive quite easily. There's way less risk of damaging the old battery or anything else during removal. Once the battery is out you scrape off the remaining adhesive and put in a new battery. No heat or chemicals necessary.

 

[EuroChilli]

How about they do similar laws for car manufacturers? You buy $50k car only to find out that OS is already 5 years old and slow and laggy and there are no updates etc. Good cars are handicapped by crappy UIs

I’m the only ‘OS’ in my 1998 Landrover Defender TDi 300. Neither me nor said vehicle will ever need updates. On the other hand, the latest Defender has ‘over the air’ OS updates, a hackers wet dream.

 

[ftaok]

I don't see it mentioned nor needed that third parties authorised or not will need a supply of parts. Consumers should be able to repair their phones with parts available for seven years, that does not mean and should not mean that you can take your phone anywhere to get it repaired.

I guess I was more reading into the part where this legislation would require Apple to make parts available to consumers. If these parts are available to consumers, then they'll be available to local repair shops, if certain consumers are not comfortable in doing their own repairs.

 

[visualseed]

Sure, but I think that most people (meaning those that don't read websites like Macrumors) just want their devices to perform like it did when they bought them. If new features are added and supported, then fine. I don't think anyone using a 5 year old iPhone expects to be able to handle the newest features like computational photography, etc.

What that particular user might expect is that their device is supported with new security updates as threats are found. And that they can get a replacement battery or new speakers or cameras if their original components crap out. For the most part, people are only changing batteries and screens, in reality. If fixit shops can get access to OEM components, then users have a choice to replace stuff with high quality OEM parts, or then can go with lower cost 3rd party stuff. As it is right now, if you want OEM parts, you have to go to Apple (or to a lesser degree, get used components pulled from other iOS devices).

Many people don’t realize how little control Apple or other companies have on older devices running like they did when they were new. I eventually caved in and upgraded my grandmother’s iPad not because there was anything physically wrong with it, but because several of the apps would not log in unless updated and the updates did not support the version of iOS the iPad was stuck on. I also suspect some took issue with lack of 64-bit support.

The usability of third-party apps probably has more impact on the viability of an old phone than its reparability or underlying OS support. Newer phones do seem to have more headroom for future app support, but I would be reluctant to codify it into law as our demands change and we have no way of predicting what the future killer app will be and how much hardware horsepower it will require.

 

[Maconplasma]

That's actually a good proposal. A mobile phone is commoditized appliance. Used be I'd buy a TV, refrigerator, washing machine, dryer, dishwasher, blender and toaster that would easily last 12-15 years. Seven to ten years for a phone and vacuum cleaner is not unreasonable.

I have no idea where you're getting that logic from? Firstly 7-10 years for a smartphone? No way. Technology advances way too fast to expect a smartphone to be usable for that length of time. Perhaps a basic non-smart phone but the common smartphone with today's technologies is kind of over-the-top to expect a 10 year usage out of it other than perhaps checking the weather and making basic calls.

In terms of a vacuum they will only last as long as the money spent on them. I have a Miele vacuum which I've had for 13 years running and it's perfect but I spent over $1200USD for it. I spent that much because cheap vacuums $200USD and under lose suction and break down. And don't get me started with Dyson's overpriced junk or those Shark crapvumes.

 

[citysnaps]

Probably but in the long run it'll still be cheaper to keep using the iPhone for seven years than be forced to buy an new iPhone every other year like Apple demands you do.

Apple isn't demanding anything. They do bring out new features in new phones with increased performance. One can choose to stay with what they have or purchase a new phone.

For example, I have a 6+ with new battery that works perfectly fine. But I prefer using my 12 because of the better cameras and performance.

 

[Maconplasma]

This proposal should really be targeted towards TV manufacturers. At least when people buy TV's they are expected to last for well over 10 years. It's really trash service from these manufacturers who promote the SmartTV features only to drop support 2-3 years later. I bought a Panasonic and Samsung Plasma reference TV's. Both lost SmartTV support in under 2 years. No point in making people spend that much on a TV only to lose support in under 2 years but we're forced to buy SmartTV's because manufacturers won't make top of the line dumb TV's. Apple supports their products for at least 5 years and more when it comes to security updates.

 

[jdsingle]

Security, yes. Repair parts, maybe not so much. Apple could probably do it, but android makers don’t build in the same quantity that Apple does.

I really dislike the EU dictating to American companies.

I fail to see how the last comment is relevant to a company that is operating globally. Are you saying that a company’s country of origin should have complete ownership over regulations? Does it upset you when Chinese companies steal information from American companies?

 

[Haiku_Oezu]

Not sure about the repair angle but Apple is definitely not worried about the update angle, the iPhone 6 came out 7 years ago and received it’s latest (security) update on June.

Not sure if these updates are required to be feature updates, I don’t see why they would tho, alas with the EU it will all depend on how the individual countries will implement the rules.

I would be more worried if I was an Android manufacturer, those phones tend to stop receiving updates crazy fast. There was that huge fiasco of that one Sony phone not receiving updates 6 months into its life and OnePlus, which is highly regarded as one of the “good ones” officially stated the OnePlus 6 will not be getting Android 12
The OP6 came out in may 2018, 3 years ago

 

[0924487]

What is going on in China should not be exulted as a good thing done in interests of the people as its motivations have more to do with consolidation of power than anything else. The EU should certainly not strive to be like them through regulatory crackdowns against Apple or anyone else. More importantly, your original comment is not true even in China as the net worth of 153 members of the Chinese parliament and its advisory body controls $650 billion in wealth as reported in the New York Times. Same thing in Russia. These are just the facts. I would suggest that the EU focus on the corporate practices of businesses like BMW before arbitrarily targeting successful American companies.

Why would you distinguish the difference between companies of different nationalities in policy making? If it’s good for the people, then it’s a good policy.

I would prefer a big, powerful and efficient government that represents all people within the nation, not just the rich and not just the poor, over a small government that is tucked in the back pocket of the uber rich.

The NYtimes has said a lot of things, and they are not known for unbiased reporting on America’s political rivals. Even if that is true, which probably is outdated and/or purposefully exaggerated, how much of that is accumulated since 2012, when Xi came into power? My comment is only true under Xi’s China. He purged the government for corruption and the dignitaries for exploitation. This not just for himself, but also for the longevity of China‘s reign and it’s common people.

When a queen bee is born, she goes around and kills all the other “plan B” queen larvae. When a prince becomes the new Emperor, he goes around and kills all his siblings, sometimes some harmless princesses are spared. Same examples can be found in many family business empires, though short of killing in modern days. My point is, cleaning up rivals to stabilize their own reign is very normal, you can’t use this to discount everything else an Emperor or a chairmen does.