Germany Urges EU to Require 7 Years of Updates and Repairs for iOS Devices

[CTHarrryH]

Wonder if Germany and others will provide 7 year updates for software for their cars particularly self-driving ones. Also will they provide all the manuals, parts (including chips) for cars and other products that they make.
We will all pay for these - although I guess they could charge a surcharge in the EU etc.
What will happen when a repair shop doing their own thing produces phones that are hacked and all the resulting damage - who will pay for that?
People who say don't need new phones for XX years - so you don't want 5G, better cameras etc.

 

[[AUT] Thomas]

"The DigitalEurope Industry Association, representing manufacturers including Apple, Samsung, and Huawei, believe the Commission's proposals go too far, and have suggested that makers provide security updates for three years and OS updates for two years."

Le me guess... Apples was fine with 5 years of software updates (obviously) while the Android bloc pushed for 1 year...

The German approach for 7 years is asked a bit too much imho...

 

[icerabbit]

Why smartphones? I don‘t think there‘s a similar law for any other device, is there?

Actually there is, under the Lemon Law, manufacturers have to provide repair parts for their products like appliances etc for a minimum of seven years.

 

[jlc1978]

EU pricing has been roughly similar to US pricing + Tax and margin for exchange rate. The only country that gets special pricing is China.

Looking at iPhone 12 64 GB on the MacIndex, it appears they can run several hundred dollars more ex VAT in Europe and no sales tax in US.

 

[Nacho1234]

You realize that this proposal is in your interest, do you? If you are a consumer, that is.

And it's in the interest of generations to come for whom we'd like to leave a habitable planet.

Forcing manufacturers to make devices that last longer and are better repairable is a good thing.

There is a market for everything. Obviously cheaper phones will not last long, but it helps keeping the price down. Apple delivers quality products that will last long both hardware and software wise and that is an appeal for a lot of people, but it comes with a cost. I think this rule by the EU would raise prices overall.

 

[ajfahey]

This will not end well.

 

[_Spinn_]

7 years is a pretty long time. I always thought 5 years was reasonable. Now there are other companies that have room for improvement (smart TVs, IOT/smart home devices). So many things never receive an update after you turn them on.

 

[poi ran]

This is good. Apple won't have many problems as it is already updating most phones and computers (but not all!) for 7 years, and others such as Samsung will have to focus more on developing products that last. My Samsung Galaxy S7 (2016) got its last (and final?) security update 4,5 years after release. That's not far from 5, or 7, but Samsung has a wider range of phones and not all are updated equally well (Samsung has improved in later years though).

Microsoft, in general, support Windows releases about 10 years, and most Windows versions can run on hardware older than Windows itself. I run Windows 10 (released 2015, updated until 2025) on my 2010 PC, no problems at all. People will expect similar from phones and tablets.

As for repairs, it is too difficult to replace the battery. Changing battery on my Galaxy S4 took maybe, eh, 10 seconds? On my S7, I won't be doing it myself. Again, smaller companies, especially with a bunch of different cheap products, could have a harder time stocking replacement parts.

 

[ajfahey]

There is a market for everything. Obviously cheaper phones will not last long, but it helps keeping the price down. Apple delivers quality products that will last long both hardware and software wise and that is an appeal for a lot of people, but it comes with a cost. I think this rule by the EU would raise prices overall.

Making a device “repairable”, when before it was not, will invariably result in design decision trades that impact a number of issues. Production cost will Increase to cover the cost of repair ability features like the ability to disassemble the device. Parts that are now soldered will need more expensive connectors to facilitate access and replacement. A products resistance to environmental contaminants will also be impacted as adhesives that prevent environmental contamination are eliminated facilitate access to internal components. Reliability will be reduced by increased contaminant ingress and more repair actions due to increased contamination will be the net result.

Government bureaucrats are not product design or manufacturing engineers. They are far more motivated by political influences than total product life cycle costs.

 

[Nuno Lopes]

This is getting crazy. The market around mobile devices seam to be going on a negative force spiral of unreasonable consumer and supplier demands. One side … $500 to repair a device beyond a battery or display replacement … the other … 7 years of parts and OS updates along with a price list for people to buy. Hehehe … well I know how this all started.

 

[FreedomPenguin]

its kind of like apple, who you know, develops the software and hardware is being made to no longer being the leader in its field. brb lets break both your arms and legs, make things harder for an inferior product so people want to feel like they can repair their device can. meanwhile those 99% of us who just buy a new one get charged more and don't want old tech.

real smart gov. real smart.

 

[GrumpyCoder]

because technology is evolutioninzing. if you make things repairable, you have to make things larger, and not soldered. I don't want any of that, I want the absolute best performing device in the absolute smallest form factor. if that means sacrificing 100% of my repairability, that's fine. I will just buy a new laptop, new iPhone, new iMac, new iPad.

I simply want the smallest, tiniest, strongest, form factor possible. even if that means everyone loses repairability. that's how I stand. I will be honest, I don't care that people can't fix things if it means I get the best smallest item available.

Normally I would agree, there's a massive problem however. The last innovation from Apple was the iPhone X which came out back in 2017. Ever since, we've seen nothing but small spec bumps.

its kind of like apple, who you know, develops the software and hardware is being made to no longer being the leader in its field.

But Apple isn't leading anything except the profit margin. They have less than 30% global market share with iOS.

 

[FreedomPenguin]

Normally I would agree, there's a massive problem however. The last innovation from Apple was the iPhone X which came out back in 2017. Ever since, we've seen nothing but small spec bumps.

But Apple isn't leading anything except the profit margin. They have less than 30% global market share with iOS.

exactly, it isn't a big deal to not be upgradeable, they don't have a monopoly so why are they trying to be forced to do stupid outrageous expectations like supporting a device for 7 years? they don't even keep iOS' for 7 years per device that is considered obsolete if I recall. let alone continue to spend money on parts production.

 

[GrumpyCoder]

exactly, it isn't a big deal to not be upgradeable, they don't have a monopoly so why are they trying to be forced to do stupid outrageous expectations like supporting a device for 7 years? they don't even keep iOS' for 7 years per device that is considered obsolete if I recall. let alone continue to spend money on parts production.

It's not about being upgradeable. It's about repair and support. Essentially you buy a product and have the guarantee this can be up and running for 7 years for minimal cost in comparison to a new device as a replacement for the full price. Those who replace their device every year can still do it. Those who want to pay less because an upgrade isn't worth it, can pay for minor repairs and wait until the next innovative device comes out.

 

[FreedomPenguin]

you can pay apple to repair it. they will repair or replace, we don't need to raise cost because they want 3rd party suppliers to be able to repair it, hence my original argument of dumbing devices down. I don't support any backwards track of technology just so anyone but apple can repair them. disposable devices imo

It's not about being upgradeable. It's about repair and support. Essentially you buy a product and have the guarantee this can be up and running for 7 years for minimal cost in comparison to a new device as a replacement for the full price. Those who replace their device every year can still do it. Those who want to pay less because an upgrade isn't worth it, can pay for minor repairs and wait until the next innovative device comes out.

 

[Sean J]

TBH - it’s Apple’s competitors that would struggle the most with these regulations as Apple already provides much longer support for its products.

 

[GrumpyCoder]

you can pay apple to repair it. they will repair or replace, we don't need to raise cost because they want 3rd party suppliers to be able to repair it, hence my original argument of dumbing devices down. I don't support any backwards track of technology just so anyone but apple can repair them. disposable devices imo

No one is talking about raising costs. This whole thing is about manufacturers, for example Apple, stocking or producing parts for a given device model for seven years, so they can repair it. Essentially product support. No dumbing down of devices or such thing, just enough spare parts for the given time period.

 

[Xenden]

Yeah, because the US never dictates its rules to the rest of the world.... 😏

That’s our job. 🤪


On a serious note, the EU has a major hard on for going after American tech companies.

But to view it from the other direction, those in the EU (and UK) dislike American companies dictating to us!

I mean this in a nice way, don’t buy the product.

A company is always "dictating." They only offer certain colors, they don’t put a charge brick in the box anymore, they take out features (3d touch, headphone jack, etc).

What confuses me is when a service like Google, can be told what to do by Australia. If an Aussie accesses google.com, why can Google be told what to do if they even though they are an American company. (I know this isn’t a direct comparison, because Google pursues business in Australia.)

 

[hans1972]

Never really understood the hatred of laws that look after the consumer interests. I guess I fail at capitalism greed 101.

It will lead to higher initial prices since it's an increased costs for all manufacturers. Most likely, only people who keeps their phone for a long time or repair it frequently will benefit.

Those who sells their phone every year or every other year would probably loose out.

 

[polyphenol]

That’s our job. 🤪


On a serious note, the EU has a major hard on for going after American tech companies.


I mean this in a nice way, don’t buy the product.

A company is always "dictating." They only offer certain colors, they don’t put a charge brick in the box anymore, they take out features (3d touch, headphone jack, etc).

What confuses me is when a service like Google, can be told what to do by Australia. If an Aussie accesses google.com, why can Google be told what to do if they even though they are an American company. (I know this isn’t a direct comparison, because Google pursues business in Australia.)

Which would be fine if there were any phones not based on the wares of Apple and Google. (Or various Android-alikes, even if not strictly Google code.)

Not wishing to get into a blame game of any sort, but we have ended up with no EU/UK offerings. Psion/Epoc and Nokia/Symbian are to all intents dead.

Thus a choice between USA products or nothing. (Obviously, the phones might be made and sold by many companies.)

 

[frenchcamp49er]

What we need is a slowing down of chip manufacturing in the mobile space or to put it another way: I’d happily still play games on my 7 year-old Xbox One but I wouldn’t be happy using an iPhone 6 in 2021.

I’m not saying there should be a 8-year gap between phone releases like there is with game consoles but 2-3 years wouldn’t hurt.

No one says you have to buy one every year

 

[hans1972]

You realize that this proposal is in your interest, do you? If you are a consumer, that is.

Not really. Repairability is usually the enemy of miniaturization which is important for reducing weight.
I value weight and small devices more than lower cost.

If I was concerned about costs, I don't think I would choose Apple in the first place.

 

[PathmansNi]

Forcing USB-C, and 7 years of updates, they are overusing power

 

[vladi]

Manufacturers should be pushed to release new phones every two years just for the sake of preventing garbage and waste that acuumulates. There are way too many people that upgrade once a year or even twice a year their phones.

 

[GrumpyCoder]

Not really. Repairability is usually the enemy of miniaturization which is important for reducing weight.
I value weight and small devices more than lower cost.

And how does weight and size change when Apple is forced to provide the following spare parts for a given device for seven years: case, battery, display, camera module and logic board?