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Well, the problem with the Agere chipset is that it sometimes does, sometimes it doesn't, and it's a hit'n'miss whether it works with the FW-equipment one has (no, I'm not talking just HDDs).
Since some of us rely on proper FW connectivity and will loose real money if we cannot get "stuff" properly into the computer, the MBP's firewire "solution" makes it more or less useless.

I don't really know anything to do with FW so I'll take your word for it.

Ever heard of "editing", "mixing" and so on? Besides, some of us have proper audio equipment, ALONG with a FW audio interface.
I used to own an Aaton Cantar X, now I use a Sound Devices 722 for most of my portable recording needs. Yet I'm still using a laptop for all sorts of audio related stuff. If you think those recorders aren't "professional", go take a look at them - the price alone should tell you something. Take a look at the 722 first. You don't want to have a heart attack.

Anyway, the fact of the matter is that when you're out in the field, you cannot bring a stationary computer, and it's seldomly you actually need such processing power out there.

But why would you need a properly calibrated display for audio work? I can't help but think the lack of matte is being greatly over exaggerated by every man and his dog.

Sigh … You just don't get it, do you? Just because a laptop isn't as good as the best external monitors doesn't mean that one can then make do with the worst possible choice.
When will you people acknowledge that it's pure idiocy to suggest carrying around an external monitor when doing work in the field? Could you guys at least TRY to be somewhat practical in your apologetic workarounds?

But it's not the worse possible choice? Going by hands on most say the screen is very good, Crystal clear. Without using it in real world use I just find it baffling people can be so dismissive after seeing it in a :apple: store with several portable sun's inside.

Hmm, I'll trust that claim as much as I trust any consumer claiming there is no need to record in anything but MP3s, as noone can tell a difference.

Completely different. If the previous MBP had an amazing screen in it you would have a point but it didn't. It seems every new MBP or mac revision there is some problem with the screens even though actually get better each time, if this forum was anything to go by the screen in the old PB's are better than these ones. That's obviously no the case.

I know it's just your opinion. I just wish it wouldn't be as apologetic and as illinformed as it comes across.

Ill-informed? Maybe but I'm commenting on what I see. A matte option would have been nice, but it seems more of a case of people having something taken away they are used to.

I'm not denying it will properly affect some people but I feel the majority are just sheeping along and repeating what they hear elsewhere when in fact for them, it wouldn't make a blind bit of difference.
 
I don't really know anything to do with FW so I'll take your word for it.
As mentioned, they not only nixed one FW port on the MBP, they also swapped the FW chipset for an inferior chipset. That inferiour chipset is called the Agere chipset, as opposed to the superior one from Texas Instruments. If you cannot see how that adheres to FW, then you certainly shouldn't be even trying to make an argument that these revisions are all just dandy.



But why would you need a properly calibrated display for audio work?
Personally, I don't need it calibrated. Other pros do. I, however, do not a laptop that doesn't reflect every man and his dog (thank you, for that turn of phrase).

I can't help but think the lack of matte is being greatly over exaggerated by every man and his dog.
Well, this doesn't mean much, coming from someone who suggests lugging an external monitor around to do work in the field.




But it's not the worse possible choice? Going by hands on most say the screen is very good, Crystal clear.
You cannot be for real!?
Going by hands? Are you seriously suggesting that because more people think of something as excellent, then it automatically must be? Going by that notion, MP3s, JPEGs, and crappy hollywood films are the epitomy of quality.
Besides, you're confusing consumption with creation. Different needs, different demands. You know, there's a reason Apple is still calling their 15" a "Pro". It's to make belief that it somehow has pro features, that it's "better", even though it's a consumer notebook in a 15" form factor.


Without using it in real world use I just find it baffling people can be so dismissive after seeing it in a :apple: store with several portable sun's inside.
Could it be that some of us have had plenty of experience with glossy screens, that plenty of us have had our share of problems with the Agere chipset? Noooh - the thought!!
Oh, and from a "creative" standpoint (not necessarily "merely" photo editing) a glossy screen IS the worse when compared to a matte. It's just because ignorant consumers tend to fall in love with oversaturation and cannot wait to watch a film in bed we have to settle for such idiocy.



Completely different. If the previous MBP had an amazing screen in it you would have a point but it didn't.
It doesn't matter if it was "amazing" or not. It was BETTER than a glossy. That's all that matters.

It seems every new MBP or mac revision there is some problem with the screens even though actually get better each time,
Define "better", and for the sake of your red herring-argument, back it up with some valid argumentation.


if this forum was anything to go by the screen in the old PB's are better than these ones. That's obviously no the case.
Talk about logical fallacies: You just threw a strawman argumentation for me to bite into. Noone ever said that. However, if I had to choose between the comparitively dim matte PB screens and a glossy bright glassbook screen, I'd go for the former. The reason being that it would get less in the way, allowing me to concentrate on work.




Ill-informed? Maybe but I'm commenting on what I see.
You comment on firewire, yet you know nothing about FW. Your comment on the screens amounted to telling people who works in the field to carry around an extra monitor. Yes, you comment on what you see, but perhaps a little research before you commented would work wonders?

A matte option would have been nice, but it seems more of a case of people having something taken away they are used to.
Sure. I can only imagine this argument also extends to FW: That it doesn't matter if it's there or not, it's just because "we're used to it" :rolleyes:
Let me tell you that I have worked on my share of glossy books. I hate it. It makes me concentrate less. Hell, even a glossy desk (as in a physical desk in a room) can be annoying as hell if the sun or sharp lighting hits it just right.


I'm not denying it will properly affect some people but I feel the majority are just sheeping along and repeating what they hear elsewhere when in fact for them, it wouldn't make a blind bit of difference.
You "feel" a lot, don't you? Yet you haven't come up with anything but "feelings", hearsay, projection and guesswork yourself.
 
Let me try to cut to the chase:

I, and many others, earn our living through use of Macs and the related software. In many cases, our images are what the client first looks at. That image works far better for many of us on a matte screen.

You like the new mirror displays - great - your needs are met.

If you want a matte display - Apple has just eliminated an important option for many of we professionals.

It is the loss of choice - not trying to convince anyone else about the pros or cons.
 
It's not glossy it's glass, and they haven't killed the firewire port because last time I checked it has a firewire 800?

Matte? Glossy? Glass? I personally feel there are minimal differences. All displays are hard to use in bright sunshine. I personally feel people just jump on the bandwagon. As has been said before, "proper professionals" use CRT's, CRT's use glass.

well said, great point, I agree;)
 
It's not glossy it's glass, and they haven't killed the firewire port because last time I checked it has a firewire 800?

Matte? Glossy? Glass? I personally feel there are minimal differences. All displays are hard to use in bright sunshine. I personally feel people just jump on the bandwagon. As has been said before, "proper professionals" use CRT's, CRT's use glass.

It's not about bright sunshine! All notebooks suck in direct sunlight. Its about the reflections when the image on the display is dark. I don't want to have to turn out the lights and dress like a ninja in order to avoid my reflection. I have a great CRT monitor that I have used for years and it is no where near as reflective as these new Macbooks. At times they are like mirrors. And yes I have gone to the apple store to see for myself. So I am speaking form personal experience.
 
OP, good to hear your opinion. Many of us are holding off buying anything because of the single option of the glassy screen.

Someone thought Apple didn't pay any attention to forums? Boy, that would have to be one stupid computer company. You better believe they know what the buzz is and they do respond. If we continue, we may get a response from Jobs the way he at least commented on blu-ray and FW issue.

These threads are for us, the customers who wanted the matte option. If you haven't called, sent a fax or email to Apple about your needs, let them know. Because this new screen is much more reflective than any other screen by any of the PC makers.
 
Express Card 34

What's the issue with FireWire 400 and SATA i/II when you have the Express Card 34 slot to expand the MacBook Pro? I've never used the slot even though it's available.
 
What's the issue with FireWire 400 and SATA i/II when you have the Express Card 34 slot to expand the MacBook Pro? I've never used the slot even though it's available.

No, you propably don't use it, just as it seem like you don't use firewire for much if at all. But that doesn't mean other people don't use it.

Btw, I mostly use my expresscard-slot for a card reader. Some may use it for a 3G Modem, a USB adaptor or something completely else. Are you seriously suggesting that we should carry around comparably huge adaptors instead of having an extra port as with the previous gen?

On the other hand, using that adaptor will make it possible to completely forego the Agere Crapset.
 
Apple used to be geared towards design professionals and students. They're obviously moving in a more consumer oriented direction in order to gain greater market share, and this is the result.

And honestly, it's not that bad. I prefer the matte screens too, but they're gone, so I'll deal with it. I'm waiting for all the cinema displays to be updated, and then I can get one of the current matte ones at a better price before they're gone forever. :D

If you want the perfect computer, start your own company, otherwise, you'll always have to compromise. ;)
 
Apple used to be geared towards design professionals and students. They're obviously moving in a more consumer oriented direction in order to gain greater market share, and this is the result.

And honestly, it's not that bad. I prefer the matte screens too, but they're gone, so I'll deal with it. I'm waiting for all the cinema displays to be updated, and then I can get one of the current matte ones at a better price before they're gone forever. :D

If you want the perfect computer, start your own company, otherwise, you'll always have to compromise. ;)

My "compromise" will be a sweet Thinkpad. Not much of a compromise, really. On the contrary it will be a return to properly build computers, even better than what Apple used to make, and certainly it will be switch to much more functionality. Apple used to be about letting the tech slide into the background, but this "epitomy" of consumerism means that one will have to workaround so many design limitations that it will get in my way on a daily basis (and here we completely ignore the growing OS bugs which seemingly seems to multiply). So perhaps I won't even hackintosh the Thinkpad by the looks of it.
 
Apple used to be geared towards design professionals and students. They're obviously moving in a more consumer oriented direction in order to gain greater market share, and this is the result.

And honestly, it's not that bad.

It wouldn't be bad if they give us some options. Look, they can sell
the glossy displays with a bunch of diamonds around the edge, just don't call
those Macbook PRO. And the worst to me is that Apple is becoming cheap,
really cheap. Why did they decide to change the FW port supplier -
just to save a few cents! Why to remove FW400 - it really s@cks, as anybody
who used a camcorder before knows how fragile those connections are.
Express card based FW will be much more exposed to dropped frames etc...
The screen seems to be worse than the previously used glossy one.
It's all about some stupid savings and the price is always the same.
Look at the Macbook Air - a complete design failure maybe fixed this time.
The 2nd generation iPhone is worse than the first one.
Lack of professional displays for years now - Apple won't even tell you
what the gamut of the Cinema displays is!
I like design, is it's part of my job too, but function is more important.
If it wasn't for us, the pros who've never abandoned Apple, even
during the worst years of Perfomas etc, Apple would have been gone by now.
They don't care about it, it's all about iPods, iPhones and glossy screens.
 
With dozens of existing threads where this could have been posted, why start a new one? Why, tell me snowboarder, why??? :D

I even moved on and that is saying something.. let it go man it only makes the hurt go deeper!

MBP glossy only reaction time line: :eek: :confused: :mad: :( :eek: :rolleyes: :)
 
well said, great point, I agree;)

Ugh I hate this distortion of truth. High quality CRT's had treatments on the glass, matte finishes on some etc that helped reduce glare considerably. Plus you had to use them in dark rooms with hoods on top of them so yes glare on glass has always, and always will be, be an issue. (Unless we make a non-glare/reflective glass someday)
 
OP, good to hear your opinion. Many of us are holding off buying anything because of the single option of the glassy screen.

Someone thought Apple didn't pay any attention to forums? Boy, that would have to be one stupid computer company. You better believe they know what the buzz is and they do respond. If we continue, we may get a response from Jobs the way he at least commented on blu-ray and FW issue.

Actually, Jobs responded to an Email sent to him (or Apple), not a forum. Apple may have people watching the forums, but they react to customer feedback via their internal customer contact system.

On the MacBook and MacBook Pro LCD and "Professionals"


In the related thread in the Digital Photography forum, Macrumors user SimD says it best.

Any serious pro is using a proper S-IPS display.

The argument about being "in the field" doesn't really stand because the panels used even in the "matte"notebooks aren't good enough for proper colour correction.

I fully agree with that statement, not on a matter of opinion, but more due to the fact of how the LCD technologies in S-IPS, and Macbook Pro TN displays produce an image. Putting cost aside, the issue with our laptop LCDs is the fact that they use TN Technology which is not exactly color accurate. I can't find confirmation on these new systems, however the previous MacBook Pro used TN panels for their LCD displays. The advantages of TN panels are due to the fact that they cost less, are quite durable, react quickly to change (minimal ghosting or "trailing" effect), but this comes with the cost of reduced color accuracy. TN panels are great for multimedia tasks (such as video editing, fast motion graphics), and make movies and games highly enjoyable. Here is a good breakdown of some of the advantages to many types of LCD technologies currently in use.

So in short, only when Apple starts installing high end color accurate S-IPS LCD panels in Laptops, will the word "professional" argument between Matte and glossy really mean anything. Color duplication is great on previous (and current) Macbook (and Pro) displays, however they are not on par with a true professional grade LCD. Had Apple actually put those displays in the MacBook Pro, the cost of these systems would likely go up $1,000 per unit which I know people would complain about on these forums ;) .

With regards to reflective glare (opinion only here)

My experience with this new MacBook Pro in full sunlight has been amazing. Even in direct sunlight (with the sun at my back) The brightness of this display is absolutly awesome. The reflictivity of the in LCD reflector (layer behind the LCD pixles) reminds me of the type used in the OLPC, in which the Sunlight actually contributes to brighting to the image. I have never used a Apple laptop that let me see as well in that situation. My previous iBook, Powerbook, and MacBook were all really bad in those situations, with the matte screens actually being harder to see because of lots of defused glare.

In my opinion they did a good job with these new displays, and the laptops in general. These are truly "brick" like in durability, and I highly enjoy the feel and assembly of these over the laptops competing with them.

image.php
 
At times they are like mirrors. And yes I have gone to the apple store to see for myself. So I am speaking form personal experience.


The Apple Stores' extremely unfavorable lighting conditions are unlike anything encountered in domestic or normal workplace settings. Anyone remotely interested in maximum color accuracy would not be working in such an environment, or making a judgment on a screen based on such evidence. Your "personal experience" in this matter is clearly limited and is therefore discounted.
 
On the MacBook and MacBook Pro LCD and "Professionals"


In the related thread in the Digital Photography forum, Macrumors user SimD says it best.



I fully agree with that statement, not on a matter of opinion, but more due to the fact of how the LCD technologies in S-IPS, and Macbook Pro TN displays produce an image.
[…]

So in short, only when Apple starts installing high end color accurate S-IPS LCD panels in Laptops, will the word "professional" argument between Matte and glossy really mean anything.

This is excellent news. With that argument transferred to the audio side of things, there is no use in using the best portable equipment there is. I can settle for a iPod mini (the alu) with an attached microphone, or going direct to a computer with a dynamic mic, because "until the manufacturers figure out how to put a large membrane microphone into a handheld mic, and figure out how to put studio equipment (including studio preamps and processors and whatnot) into a portable recorder, there is no difference between the iPod with the mic, and the 722-recorder with a Schoeps microphone". You learn every day …

This is such great news!! I will be saving a ton of money – money I can spend on turtlenecks and café latte! – I hope I will be able to sell all my equipment before someone else picks up on this, though. After that revelation, entire industries will be going broke! Glad I didn't invest my mney in any audio companies.
 
This is excellent news. With that argument transferred to the audio side of things, there is no use in using the best portable equipment there is......

<snip>

...I hope I will be able to sell all my equipment before someone else picks up on this, though. After that revelation, entire industries will be going broke! Glad I didn't invest my mney in any audio companies.

The only thing I can gather from that rambling diatribe is that either you need to lay off the narcotics before posting on Macrumors. Or, there really is truth to the term "Ignorance is bliss".

Either way, thanks for giving me the opportunity to laugh at something tonight. :D

image.php
 
The Apple Stores' extremely unfavorable lighting conditions are unlike anything encountered in domestic or normal workplace settings. Anyone remotely interested in maximum color accuracy would not be working in such an environment, or making a judgment on a screen based on such evidence. Your "personal experience" in this matter is clearly limited and is therefore discounted.

Did I say anything about color accuracy? No. I am talking about reflections that make the display hard to see. When the screen goes dark its like looking out a window at night. You can see yourself and the room your in, even when there is minimal light on you side of the window. Likewise if the image on the display is dark and you are reflecting even a minimal amount light off your face, you are going to see yourself on your screen. Look, the display looks great when the image on screen is bright, even in the well lit apple store. But when I am working on/showing someone something dark, I want to see all of the screen as clearly as possible. The reflections effect luminance more than chrominance, and since the human eye is more sensitive to light and dark than it is to color, I would say that having a reflective screen can be a problem. If I have too look through a reflection to see the image then I am losing some information. So please understand what I am talking about before you respond to my post and belittle my experiences.

PS - The apple store isn't that extreme an environment. It might be a little brighter than a standard office with overhead fluorescent lamps.
 
this is my first mac notebook and really thought the glossy screen was a bad idea. But using it for a couple of days has really proved what a create display it is. But if they had come out with matte display i probably would've bought that.
 
Please admins...ban the next user to start a thread whining about the lack of matte screens!

I have a 3 macs with glossy and 1 with matte and for the richer black and better look glossy is definitely worth it. Also, as Steve said, it's quite easy to just adjust the brightness for outdoor use.

Just my opinion...but if you can't stand the the way Apple is going have fun with viruses on MS pcs and stop crap threading a useful forum.
 
Please admins...ban the next user to start a thread whining about the lack of matte screens!

I have a 3 macs with glossy and 1 with matte and for the richer black and better look glossy is definitely worth it. Also, as Steve said, it's quite easy to just adjust the brightness for outdoor use.

Just my opinion...but if you can't stand the the way Apple is going have fun with viruses on MS pcs and stop crap threading a useful forum.

If apple got rid of a feature you liked you would be pissed too. You know Apple got rid of fw800 on the original Macbook Pro and a lot of people were pissed but guess what it made a return on the next revision. fw800 is not a feature most consumers need So until the next revision comes I am going to bring up the glossy issue because I know Apple listens to it customers. And even if apple doesn't read these forums their investors/shareholders do, I mean the read CNN iReports, you don't think they read one of the largest message boards about Apple. I voice my opinion cause I want a change.
 
If apple got rid of a feature you liked you would be pissed too. You know Apple got rid of fw800 on the original Macbook Pro and a lot of people were pissed but guess what it made a return on the next revision. fw800 is not a feature most consumers need So until the next revision comes I am going to bring up the glossy issue because I know Apple listens to it customers. And even if apple doesn't read these forums their investors/shareholders do, I mean the read CNN iReports, you don't think they read one of the largest message boards about Apple. I voice my opinion cause I want a change.

Then please, voice your opinion on one of the 5 other threads about the lack of matte screens. We don't need an individual one for every person.

I invite Steve to come to my house and rearrange all the lights and furniture for me.

Last I knew all that was required to adjust the brightness was pressing F1 or F2...works for me.
 
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