GM Admits No Technical Reason CarPlay Couldn't Be in Future EVs

[Kar98]

I see it as being caught between a rock and a hard place.

You either turn potential customers off by not including CarPlay, or further increase your reliance on another company while also losing another means of differentiating your product.

Neither is an appealing proposition.

Drivers were listening to radio stations not run by _GM_, using road atlasses not printed by _GM_ and got gas at gas stations not operated by _GM_ for a century and it didn't bother anyone.

There is no "two sides". It's simply corporate greed. Differentiate your product by making it BETTER, not crappier.

 

[webkit]

BEV adoption rate is growing every year and as far as anyone can see they are eventually going to take over. ICE vehicles will become niche, the writing is on the wall on that. Of course Tesla market share is decreasing as all other car manufacturers are scrambling to transition to BEV. But Tesla has such a big head start in so many areas that other manufacturers will be playing catch up for years to come. Many are not profitable and won’t be for some time. Some companies will not be able to catch up (unless maybe with government help) and will fall to the wayside. This is why they’re scared, and at the very least shaken up. Opening up Tesla superchargers is a game changer, however, as it gives other manufacturers a fighting chance. Lowering prices doesn’t equate to scared. There are many factors involved.

I certainly agree that BEV adoption is growing. Much of that growth is coming from non-Tesla vehicles. Tesla isn't exactly "taking over" as their market share has declined in the U.S. and globally.

 

[Aquaporin]

I honestly don't prefer CarPlay over my car's built in navigation and audio software. CarPlay was great when my car didn't have GPS, but now I could do without all the phone notifications.

 

[webkit]

Doing the math:

For Tesla to maintain 75% marketshare, Tesla would have to sell 3 cars for every single non-Tesla EV sold

If Ford built a factory that does 1 million cars, Tesla would need to build 3 factories that do 1 million cars each. Then if GM builds a factory, and Tesla would need to build another 3.

Using Tesla marketshare dropping as an argument is funny when Tesla's marketshare was above 70% at one point this year.

Tesla's U.S. market share has dropped from around 78% in 2018 to 62% in 2022. Globally, Tesla's market share is much smaller and has also declined. As far as GM and Ford are concerned, they are hardly the only manufacturers making EVs. BYD and Volkswagen alone produced more BEVs in 2022 than Tesla.

 

[webkit]

Math, bro. Doesn't matter if your market share is declining if your YoY growth is outpacing everyone else's volumes.

Again, Tesla's market share has declined as much of the EV growth is coming from OTHER manufacturers.

What is the #1 selling passenger vehicle in the world, and the #1 selling car/SUV in the USA? Tesla Model Y. No CarPlay.

That's misleading as Tesla offers far fewer models than most manufacturers whose sales are spread over more model choices.

 

[xpxp2002]

I honestly don't prefer CarPlay over my car's built in navigation and audio software. CarPlay was great when my car didn't have GPS, but now I could do without all the phone notifications.

Then disable notifications while CarPlay is in use.

Heck, the Driving Focus mode will do that for you automatically.

 

[SnowCrocodile]

This bold move forced many people to drop GM from #3 to #5 on their list of brands to consider.

I live in Metro Detroit and I work within the automotive industry. I also travel a lot and have family all over. GM brass still seems very much oblivious to the fact that people in most of the country don't consider their brands as top choices when vehicle shopping. They have neither the snob appeal (with just a couple exceptions), nor the reputation for reliability, their market share has been in a steady continuous decline since I was a child, and their push into EV space so far has not been hugely successful (Chevy Bolt is a nice vehicle as long as you park it far from the house and only use 60% of its stated range capacity, otherwise it may burst in flames and burn your home down. Oh, and the price of insurance will also be electric - i.e. a shocker).

Outside of Midwest, you don't see that many GM cars which are not rentals or fleet. To be fair, not that many American branded cars period. My extended family is very much biased towards Asian and European brands.

So their decision to drop a major convenience feature that many people are very attached to and which their competitors are continuing to support is... puzzling. Although very much in line with their overall direction over the last 30 years (as long as I can remember). That is, stumbling, tripping over themselves, making terrible decisions, and never learning their lesson.

I think that if they want to save the brand, they need to bring someone from the outside to run it. Mary Barra is a GM lifer, she has professionally grown and went up through the ranks in the worst times of hubris, unfounded corporate superiority complex, and "**** the customer" attitudes and it takes someone very different to enact the needed change.

Can't wait for their sales figures five years from now.

 

[randomnut]

Not an apple fanboy by any stretch but I simply won't buy a car now without Car Play support. Any manufacturer who drops it just won't get my custom.

I can't see myself moving from iPhone any time in the near future, primarily due to Apples software support being a lot longer than Android, my devices live a very long life once I've upgraded and passed them onto family members. CarPlay has become an absolutely integral part of my driving experience now so the two very much go hand in hand.

 

[East India Company]

Does somebody knows wether navigation with maps in CarPlay uses the vehicle satellite navigation or the iPhone GPS?

 

[BuffaloTF]

Once we figure out the next major advance in battery technology .... which is taking forever....Tesla may very well become the largest car manufacturer in the world and Americas legacy brands probably die. Once we have the next battery Ford is going to only make trucks, and most will stop making unprofitable cars they only currently do for govt regulations. Right now EV big vehicles suck because once you load them up or tow battery life is a joke. So if you want and EV ... why buy some massive Escalade laden with legacy designs?

You know, I think towing is the next thing to be solved. Right now, there's an RV in development called the Lightship. It's an EV RV - as in, it has its own battery pack and motor - and when it gets pulled, it turns its own wheels, when it has resistance, it brakes (or maybe there's communication over the plug between them, I only just saw this days ago). Their goal is to have a zero-loss tow experience. I can't imagine they'll be the last to try this.

 

[Sasha-1]

I wouldn't buy a GM anyway. lol.

I’d most likely buy a Japanese car.

 

[fontman]

Earlier this year, General Motors revealed it is planning to phase out support for CarPlay and Android Auto in all of its electric vehicles, citing the need for tighter integration with the vehicle as GM rolls out a new infotainment system co-developed with Google.

With this week's high-profile unveiling of the $130,000+ Cadillac Escalade IQ that will launch in late 2024, GM followed through on its promise as the automaker confirmed to The Verge yesterday that the luxury electric SUV won't support CarPlay or Android Auto anywhere on its massive 55-inch dashboard display.

The move to discontinue to CarPlay and Android Auto is more of a political one than a technical one, however, as MacRumors alum and car journalist Jordan Golson noted in his video overview of the new Escalade IQ.

Golson spoke to GM representatives about the omission and they shared that the decision was made due to EV-specific functionality such as utilizing vehicle charge state information to assist with navigation routing. When using CarPlay or Android Auto, the user's phone has no knowledge of the vehicle's charge state, and GM believes that forcing users to use the built-in Google-based system which can account for this information will deliver a better user experience.

Golson says that given this is not a technical decision, GM could update the infotainment system on the Escalade IQ and other upcoming EVs to add CarPlay and Android Auto if it finds customers are demanding it, but there are no guarantees about what GM will do.

While GM's argument about tighter integration with vehicle data does have some merit, there is nothing preventing the company from offering users the option of using either the built-in system or CarPlay/Android Auto, as is the case in millions of vehicles on the road today.

Apple's next-generation CarPlay​

It also appears the argument could largely become moot with the next-generation version of CarPlay teased by Apple at WWDC 2022, which integrates very closely with vehicle systems and expands the CarPlay experience across the entire dashboard. We should learn more about next-generation CarPlay and see the first vehicles introduced with it later this year, but GM is not included in the list of over a dozen brands announced by Apple as partners on the feature.

Article Link: GM Admits No Technical Reason CarPlay Couldn't Be in Future EVs

 

[fontman]

Well the convenience of CarPlay is integrating with your phone it's too important these days which makes me sad to say that I could not buy a GM product no matter how good people say it was because of that simple fact it's a sad move on their part.

 

[FindingAvalon]

Earlier this year, General Motors revealed it is planning to phase out support for CarPlay and Android Auto in all of its electric vehicles, citing the need for tighter integration with the vehicle as GM rolls out a new infotainment system co-developed with Google.

With this week's high-profile unveiling of the $130,000+ Cadillac Escalade IQ that will launch in late 2024, GM followed through on its promise as the automaker confirmed to The Verge yesterday that the luxury electric SUV won't support CarPlay or Android Auto anywhere on its massive 55-inch dashboard display.

The move to discontinue to CarPlay and Android Auto is more of a political one than a technical one, however, as MacRumors alum and car journalist Jordan Golson noted in his video overview of the new Escalade IQ.

Golson spoke to GM representatives about the omission and they shared that the decision was made due to EV-specific functionality such as utilizing vehicle charge state information to assist with navigation routing. When using CarPlay or Android Auto, the user's phone has no knowledge of the vehicle's charge state, and GM believes that forcing users to use the built-in Google-based system which can account for this information will deliver a better user experience.

Golson says that given this is not a technical decision, GM could update the infotainment system on the Escalade IQ and other upcoming EVs to add CarPlay and Android Auto if it finds customers are demanding it, but there are no guarantees about what GM will do.

While GM's argument about tighter integration with vehicle data does have some merit, there is nothing preventing the company from offering users the option of using either the built-in system or CarPlay/Android Auto, as is the case in millions of vehicles on the road today.

Apple's next-generation CarPlay​

It also appears the argument could largely become moot with the next-generation version of CarPlay teased by Apple at WWDC 2022, which integrates very closely with vehicle systems and expands the CarPlay experience across the entire dashboard. We should learn more about next-generation CarPlay and see the first vehicles introduced with it later this year, but GM is not included in the list of over a dozen brands announced by Apple as partners on the feature.

Article Link: GM Admits No Technical Reason CarPlay Couldn't Be in Future EVs

Which means. “We’re gonna see how this no CarPlay thing works and if it fails…we’ll add CarPlay”. 😆

 

[seek3r]

RCS is an international standard by the GSM association, and was started around 2007 to replace SMS, which was a hack that conquered the world.

It is much more capable protocol than SMS, but it's obviously never going to compete with apps like iMessage. However, it does solve some of the issues that are also solved in iMessage but in a application neutral way.

RCS as google is implementing it is not the standard, it relies on extra google services and isnt natively supported by carriers

 

[BuffaloTF]

RCS is a standard established by the GSM Association.

It's basically like USB. Apple wants to keep using Lightning, which is fine.

RCS is a *technical* standard. This does not mean ubiquitous, it means the specs for it have been solidified, operation requirements are defined, and predicted performance has a floor. The lightning example you give is funny because... lightning is a standard. It's proprietary and Apple controls access, but others make lightning cables because Apple has standardized it and licenses that out. You know... kinda like how 4G and 5G radio technologies are standards... but Qualcomm owns basically the entire patent portfolio on them... and licenses them out. Or, maybe better, how Qualcomm owned the entirety of CDMA patents, and Verizon licensed it out.

Google Messages is not GSMA RCS. It's proprietary. It only goes through Google servers. Unlike Lightning, Google does not give anyone access to the servers. You can not make your own RCS app through any API that can interface with it. Periodically, the GSMA will add in things Google has added to *their* system. But it has zero relation to the GSMA. It's Google's latest attempt to get more metadata - which is their primary business - in an area they've always failed at. Google RCS and GSMA RCS shares the same relationship that a Red Panda and a Panda do - as in, they don't. They have a common name, that's all.

 

[el-John-o]

I've only ever owned one GM vehicle with built-in navigation (back in the mid 2000's). Wanna know how long General Motors provided navigation updates, which, by the way, cost $99 a pop?

Two. Years.

In theory, with OTA updates, onboard navigation might not be as bad. Especially if this is working with Google and uses Google maps still. But it, to me, demonstrates how little GM cares about supporting infotainment after the point of sale.

What I LOVE about CarPlay is that it stays up to date, and allows me to expand usefulness. I have it in my truck which I use to pull an RV. I can use a navigation app made for truckers if I'm concerned about bridge clearances; because unlike Apple or Google Maps, those apps allow me to set the height of my vehicle to ensure I'm not routed places I can't go. Another HUGE thing I love is apps that let me sit down at my desk on my Mac and route a long trip. Selecting the routes I want to go and where I want to stop. Google Maps and Apple Maps don't really support this. You can add 'stops' but you can't really tweak the route much. Sometimes I want to drive on specific roads or see specific scenery on a road trip. And again, when towing a camper, I also want to make sure that I have planned for fuel stops at places where I'm not going to have trouble maneuvering.

There are a whole lot of features that I use on a regular basis that GM is unlikely to have in their onboard infotainment.

But what this REALLY is all about is one thing. Years ago you went to the dealer to pay $100 for a new DVD with updated maps. GM really wants that back. This has nothing to do with 'integration' or any limitations on using CarPlay. This is purely greed. Whatever they WILL provide will be a poorer version of what your phone already does for free; and you'll have to pay a monthly subscription to it. Everyone in corporate America wants subscribers now. GM doesn't just want you to buy a new vehicle every 3-5 years, they want you paying them every month while you own it. They had OnStar forever but phone integration and cheaper navigation systems have made that completely moot.

It's so frustrating to see anti-consumer practices in play. CarPlay and Android Auto were some of the better innovations of the smartphone era. Brilliant! Most people upgrade their phones more often than they upgrade their cars. Their phones are always connected to the internet and are constantly updating their own software. Why not let the phone run the infotainment system? There is just no way an onboard infotainment system could be 'better'. If it WAS better they'd support CarPlay and Android Auto, and give folks the opportunity to choose!

My current truck is a GM truck that's a 2014. My Car is a Ford, also a 2014. The truck will probably be replaced first, in the next couple of years. Whatever it gets replaced with will have CarPlay. I simply can't go back at this point. My 2014 Truck is "old enough" that I was able to just install an aftermarket CarPlay receiver. Not really an option on new stuff; so it'll have to be native!

 

[BuffaloTF]

Again, Tesla's market share has declined as much of the EV growth is coming from OTHER manufacturers.




That's misleading as Tesla offers far fewer models than most manufacturers whose sales are spread over more model choices.

Sigh... it's the best selling car in the world. Maybe that changes when Q2 numbers are released any day now, but that's where it stood after Q1.

And Tesla is experiencing YoY growth, meaning that they sold more cars than the year prior and are continuing to grow. Every car they make, sells. They've opened new factories, those all sell out. Their market share of the EV market could be 100%, but as soon as someone else shows up and sells 1 whole car, their market share falls. That doesn't mean they're in some free fall - it means the market grew. It's a very useless stat at this stage since the EV market is just now growing out of its infancy, in the next decade it'll likely settle into a transitionary stage and maybe you can glean information from it. But this isn't the half-ton truck market, where Ford losing market share might indicate something in a mature market.

 

[PixelsMaster]

These new Android Automotive (based) systems are a huge step backward in vehicle personalization. CarPlay and Android Auto allow drivers to natively control their preferred music, navigation and other supported apps regardless of the vehicle system. It'll be especially jarring to iPhone owners, as most people buying vehicles at this price point will be coming from a wireless CarPlay vehicle. We're essentially regressing a couple decades to bluetooth only control. Most people will handle their phones more often for messaging, controlling music, navigating, etc.

BUT, I think these 100% touch interface systems are awful and should be outlawed. They're a huge safety issue:

1. Drivers need to hunt down settings to adjust basic settings like temp, fan speed, volume, seating controls, etc,
2. Tap, tap, tap, tap, tap, tap, tap takes a lot longer to decrease or increase volume/temp than spinning a knob.
3. There is no tactile feedback for making adjustments without taking your eyes off the road
4. Settings are constantly moving/replaced by settings for something else (climate, sound, seats)

Until vehicles are completely autonomous, certain functions need to be controlled with physical buttons/knobs. I don't care how many safety features manufacturers add, unless they plan to take full responsibility for accidents, don't make the driving experience more dangerous.

 

[BuffaloTF]

I've only ever owned one GM vehicle with built-in navigation (back in the mid 2000's). Wanna know how long General Motors provided navigation updates, which, by the way, cost $99 a pop?

Two. Years.

In theory, with OTA updates, onboard navigation might not be as bad. Especially if this is working with Google and uses Google maps still. But it, to me, demonstrates how little GM cares about supporting infotainment after the point of sale.

What I LOVE about CarPlay is that it stays up to date, and allows me to expand usefulness. I have it in my truck which I use to pull an RV. I can use a navigation app made for truckers if I'm concerned about bridge clearances; because unlike Apple or Google Maps, those apps allow me to set the height of my vehicle to ensure I'm not routed places I can't go.

I'm chopping you down to focus on what I'm specifically replying to.

They aren't offering you onboard nav. They're offering you a service - OnStar. They'll charge you 15-25 dollars a month to connect you to their cell provider (AT&T if I'm not mistaken) to send you the data for maps and music services... from Google Maps, as this is an Android Automotive solution (not to be confused with Android Auto, the CarPlay equivalent - don't blame me, I didn't name these things). But that's it - that's everything there is to it. They want to sell you subscriptions. You're buying a vehicle that completely avoids their revenue stream for oil changes and mechanical repairs. You'll need a tire rotation like every 10,000 miles, but what's that? 40 bucks? The market shifting to EVs is something they can't avoid as a threat to this. But the phone, being a threat to other income sources... well, that can be eliminated. That's what they're after - after all, why would anyone pay for OnStar when they already pay for their phone that does the same things.

Though, same things with an asterisk - as alternative mapping solutions as you're describing... well, you'll be SOL.

 

[justperry]

Apple probably rejected GM for putting airplay on this monstrosity.
What is this, a tank.
A rather have a Porsche or similar.

 

[FelixDerKater]

So they can sell you a $2000 navigation upgrade…

 

[whidbeyben]

Earlier this year, General Motors revealed it is planning to phase out support for CarPlay and Android Auto in all of its electric vehicles, citing the need for tighter integration with the vehicle as GM rolls out a new infotainment system co-developed with Google.

With this week's high-profile unveiling of the $130,000+ Cadillac Escalade IQ that will launch in late 2024, GM followed through on its promise as the automaker confirmed to The Verge yesterday that the luxury electric SUV won't support CarPlay or Android Auto anywhere on its massive 55-inch dashboard display.

The move to discontinue to CarPlay and Android Auto is more of a political one than a technical one, however, as MacRumors alum and car journalist Jordan Golson noted in his video overview of the new Escalade IQ.

Golson spoke to GM representatives about the omission and they shared that the decision was made due to EV-specific functionality such as utilizing vehicle charge state information to assist with navigation routing. When using CarPlay or Android Auto, the user's phone has no knowledge of the vehicle's charge state, and GM believes that forcing users to use the built-in Google-based system which can account for this information will deliver a better user experience.

Golson says that given this is not a technical decision, GM could update the infotainment system on the Escalade IQ and other upcoming EVs to add CarPlay and Android Auto if it finds customers are demanding it, but there are no guarantees about what GM will do.

While GM's argument about tighter integration with vehicle data does have some merit, there is nothing preventing the company from offering users the option of using either the built-in system or CarPlay/Android Auto, as is the case in millions of vehicles on the road today.

Apple's next-generation CarPlay​

It also appears the argument could largely become moot with the next-generation version of CarPlay teased by Apple at WWDC 2022, which integrates very closely with vehicle systems and expands the CarPlay experience across the entire dashboard. We should learn more about next-generation CarPlay and see the first vehicles introduced with it later this year, but GM is not included in the list of over a dozen brands announced by Apple as partners on the feature.

Article Link: GM Admits No Technical Reason CarPlay Couldn't Be in Future EVs

I was about to place an order for the Silverado EV until GM announced they were dropping Apple CarPlay. That sent me directly to Ford’s F150 Lightning instead. Foolish move on GM’s part. It will ultimately cost them thousands or millions of potential sales.

 

[citysnaps]

having just finally upgraded to a car with car play, I would definitely not purchase a vehicle without it.

Same here. My wife recently purchased a new Venza (a hybrid, not an EV). And having Apple Car Play is awesome. Not having car play on my next new car purchase would be an instant deal killer.

 

[tdar]

So why is nobody complaining that the announced Apple dashboard will not allow Android Auto connectivity?

So I guess I have to point out that if you don’t have a iPhone you won’t have “the Apple dashboard “. The phone is what generates it.