Yes, but the S-series was made from the start and for quite a number of years, until Saturn was reabsorbed by the mother ship.
Got a tip for us?
Let us know
Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.
GM now worth less than toy car maker Mattel
- Thread starter joeshell383
- Start date
- Sort by reaction score
Yes, but the S-series was made from the start and for quite a number of years, until Saturn was reabsorbed by the mother ship.
I would not write off the big 3 as crap but do look at their line up. They are paying for the crap they made in the early 90's in relieablity which has gotten better in more recent years and now is up to par with every one else. Honda has gone down...
That being said for me I am looking at getting a new car in 1-2 years to replace my sentra (I want something bigger like a mid size car instead of a compact)
As it stand
GM - nothing that interested me. The Volt shows promise but I like a way to charge it as it stands but that might be different in a years time.
Ford - It has the fussion which as it stands has my attention.
Crystler - Sorry to many problems with those cars and my family so not even in the running. No trust what so ever
As for the imports
Nissan - Has the altima which I like.
Honda - Accord Need I say more
Toyta - Nothing
VW - Passat
Madza - 6
So on my radar in a years time I will be looking at Altima, Accord, Fission, Passat, and Madza 6.
I can promise you I will look very hard at all those cars and see what I want to run with. Hell I might find something unexpect. When I got my sentra the Madza 3 was the car I almost got and it was never on my original list.
That being said for me I am looking at getting a new car in 1-2 years to replace my sentra (I want something bigger like a mid size car instead of a compact)
As it stand
GM - nothing that interested me. The Volt shows promise but I like a way to charge it as it stands but that might be different in a years time.
Ford - It has the fussion which as it stands has my attention.
Crystler - Sorry to many problems with those cars and my family so not even in the running. No trust what so ever
As for the imports
Nissan - Has the altima which I like.
Honda - Accord Need I say more
Toyta - Nothing
VW - Passat
Madza - 6
So on my radar in a years time I will be looking at Altima, Accord, Fission, Passat, and Madza 6.
I can promise you I will look very hard at all those cars and see what I want to run with. Hell I might find something unexpect. When I got my sentra the Madza 3 was the car I almost got and it was never on my original list.
I am confused by that statement. As in you would want to plug it in to charge up the battery? If that is what you meant, you can plug it in to charge the battery up. But, if you go beyond the 40 mile range of the battery without plugging it in, the generator( it can be powered by a gas, diesel, or fuel cell engine) will turn on to keep the battery charged up. As with the Volt unlike typical hybrids like the Prius, Tahoe Hybrid, etc the engines only purpose is to turn a generator. In essence the Volt is an electric car with a built in generator to keep the batteries charged and the electric motor drives the wheels.
sorry I had just gotten off a around 8 hours of travel and it was late.
The volt shows promise but as it stands I lack a way to charge it so it will not be an option for me for a little while.
Actually, Geo was an assortment of rebadged cars. The Prizm was a Toyota Corolla, the Metro was a Suzuki Swift (the JDM name was Cultus, which wouldn't fly here), the Tracker was also a Suzuki and the Storm was an Isuzu.
The new Swift, not available here, is a sharp looking car with great fuel economy. Too bad it is not coming to the states.
I agree. The executives kept blaming the unions and the retiree costs for their troubles through the media for years. Still, they cannot come up with cars that are attractive enough, so that people would actually buy them. Consumers are willing to pay extra for good looking cars and overlook reliability problems. Look at VW. The quality of that brand has been at the bottom of the barrel for years, but I still see a lot of Golfs, Jettas and Passats around. Instead Pontiac comes up with G6. A boring looking sports car. Well, of course, it does not sell any...
It is quite obvious for quite some time that gas prices are increasing and fuel efficiency is becoming a greater concern for customers, but they are still unprepared. Both Ford and GM have European operations with fuel efficient small cars, but they are still years away from bringing such models over here. Cobalt was the lightest car among the ones Consumer Reports tested, but it still had the worst gas mileage. It also had the worst reliability record in its class a few years ago. I don't know if it is any better now. Ford is going to bring Ford Fiesta in 2010. I guess they want to go bankrupt before that year actually rolls over.
I think it is way past time some executives took the blame and retired without a huge settlement package. Instead, when LA Times calls the CEO on his failures, as the new models of the last few years has been designed entirely by the design teams brought in by him, GM pulls advertising from LA Times. No wonder media is quiet about the execution.
So it's like a diesel-electric locomotive, but with batteries and not necessarily diesel.
Coming soon, to a Westinghouse dealer near you.
Now with rubber tires!!!
Pff, Westinghouse. Obviously that would only be sold through Neiman-Marcus.
Now here's a Ford I would buy.
A Ford Fiesta....I've heard that it's supposedly their 'World Car'. Pretty sharp for an econobox. It would make a great replacement for my Metro. I'd probably throw in an HHO generator to improve the fuel efficiency, too.
Link
It's based on the Mazda 2 platform that's selling in Japan. Neither (Ford or Mazda) will make the North American market before 2010.
I'm also hoping for something like this:
More info on the V1.
A Ford Fiesta....I've heard that it's supposedly their 'World Car'. Pretty sharp for an econobox. It would make a great replacement for my Metro. I'd probably throw in an HHO generator to improve the fuel efficiency, too.
Link
It's based on the Mazda 2 platform that's selling in Japan. Neither (Ford or Mazda) will make the North American market before 2010.
I'm also hoping for something like this:
More info on the V1.
Ford's first true World Car was the 1993 Ford Mondeo (CDW27 Platform).
And as it's a Ford, you can rest assured that it'll drive like a demon. Ford (Europe) are very, very good at that kind of thing.
I can't be bothered looking up how the U.S. work out their fuel figures, but I was reading that the new Fiesta ECOnetic returns a 76mpg figure for the combined cycle (UK/Euro), and can breach the 80mpg mark too which is roughly the same as my Audi A2.
I'm still surprised that Ford U.S. haven't yet spun off their profitable European arm, if they're not careful...
That was a good platform. The US-spec cars had some build quality issues (endemic to domestic manufacturers), but the little V6 was excellent. It was also pretty cheap. The 200hp SVT version was also a very good performer.
People always say "buy domestic", but just because a car has "Ford" or some other domestic car company's name stamped on it really doesn't make it a domestic car. The Ford Fusion is made in Mexico. On the other hand the Toyota Sienna was designed and built in the US. Which car is more American? Besides the fact that Honda's and Toyota's are more reliable. My dad has had a honda civic for 8 years. He hasn't had to take it in for anything other than routine maintenance.
I never had to take my GM vehicles in for anything other then TSB's and routine maintenance. Only the Equinox is built outside of the US( Canada). I don't really care where the final point of assembly is. If the parts are mostly US/Canadian sourced is what matters for me. You're still helping out the Japanese economy by buying Japanese products even if built here in the U.S.
This is simply incorrect. What did Toyota do with the Tundra? Nissan with the Titan. They tried to compete with American trucks and in my opinion failed.
Additionally, all of these "imported" brands typically are designing for different markets and then adapting those designs for the US market. That means that Trucks and big cars are not typically being designed for Asia and Europe.
It is also strange to see that no one is railing on BMW or Mercedes for producing gas guzzling cars. And god forbid something goes wrong with one of those cars. You end up paying the price of a Kia to get something fixed.
Friend of mine has a BMW X3, terrible gas milage and the sun roof broke. The cost of repair was $3,700. Now a GM car may break down, for example, my old Trailblazer had the transfer case go out (not making the car undriveable, just the FWD useless). It only cost $250 out of warranty to get it fixed. I drove that car for 80,000 miles and 5 years and that was the only thing besides regular maintenance that I had to put into it. I would say not bad at all.
The point here is that, in general, the big 3's cars are not hugely expensive to repair if something goes wrong.
Define failure... I see many Tundras around where I live.
Well, comparing the repair expense of a basic car brand with a "premium" one is not a fair comparison. Besides, the reliability of European manufacturers, such as VW or BMW, is quite low anyways. Based on surveys from Consumer Reports and JD Powers, it is hard to argue against the fact that Toyota and Honda have very good reliability. Yes, US brands are getting much better lately and the marquee ones such as Cadillac and Lincoln may go toe to toe with Lexus or Acura, but Chevy and Ford has some ways to go.
The final assembly, as well as a lot of sourcing is done from US based companies when Japanese brands move their plants to the US. Actually some magazines had comparisons of the content and some Japanese models sometimes had more US content than American nameplate ones. I understand that marketing of "big three" is trying to pull the heartstrings of consumers to sell their cars, as they are getting pretty desperate, but don't be fooled so easily.
Tundra sell at ~150K units a year vs the 900K+ units the Silverado and F-150 do( well used to do as I am using pre-gas hike numbers). To be fair though to Toyota, they don't have the manufacturing capacity to get to Chevy's and Ford's numbers.
Well, comparing the repair expense of a basic car brand with a "premium" one is not a fair comparison. Besides, the reliability of European manufacturers, such as VW or BMW, is quite low anyways. Based on surveys from Consumer Reports and JD Powers, it is hard to argue against the fact that Toyota and Honda have very good reliability. Yes, US brands are getting much better lately and the marquee ones such as Cadillac and Lincoln may go toe to toe with Lexus or Acura, but Chevy and Ford has some ways to go.
/QUOTE]
I've never found American cars to be that unreliable. When they do break, parts are dirt cheap. Since basically all American cars are a rebranded something else and parts are always interchanged- the price of a part on a Ccadillac shouldn't be anymore than a part on a Chevy.
European cars I've found to be very unreliable, especially the Germans. Additionally, they cost 3x as much to fix as domestic car. The German cars we've owned include a 1996 or 1997 Audi A4, a 2004 BMW X3 3.0, and a 2005 Volkswagen Touareg. The Audi had lots of little issues- lights, locks, gas tank door, engine sensors, etc, etc, etc (not to mention very high repair costs). The BMW was a lemon so we got the Touareg. The Touareg is a nice car but has been one of the most reliable cars my family has ever owned- 2 CV joints in under 40,000 miles, trunk hatch broken 2x, goes through light bulbs like a baby does diapers, engine sensors, air suspension parts, the CD player broke, door seals falling off, drivers door lock, etc. Right now it has like 50,000 miles and it has to go back in because its making hard shifts and idles rough occasionally.
If you work on your own car, maybe, but around where I live mechanics charge a lot more than the cost of the parts. Besides, I'd rather have a car that does not break down even if it is cheap to fix it when it does.
I agree with you on European brands. For some reason, people are a lot more forgiving about their VW's or Audi's. However, that is further proof for me that if GM had products that looked or felt exciting, consumers would overlook quality or price issues. Hence, my piling blame on the executives who oversaw the dull designs of these passenger cars. It is actually sad to see American cars from 50s, 60s and even 70s that had so much character and beauty reduced to this state of affairs.
I don't know what planet your on but BMW/VW (Basically all the European Cars) are the most reliable and some of the best cars you can get.
Ford do their own thing (to great results) in Europe, most are built in Germany or Spain and are nothing like your American versions.
Ford own Mazda so don't get too cocky with those, maybe it's the fact that the Euro cars are built in the USA when destined for the US market and use sub-par parts compared to those over here?
I have a Vauxhall(Opel) GM Vectra 1.9CDTI (Diesel) on hire at the moment it's an awful car but good engine, so tacky and horrible, awaiting the delivery of my brand new shape A4 1.8TFSI
Dont forget Ford use PCT (Peugeot Citroen Group)'s Diesel Engines in their Diesels (TDCI)
Anyway it will always be europeans for me! Nissan make the ugliest cars available, Honda's are for old people and Toyotas are well..... ugh
Ford do their own thing (to great results) in Europe, most are built in Germany or Spain and are nothing like your American versions.
Ford own Mazda so don't get too cocky with those, maybe it's the fact that the Euro cars are built in the USA when destined for the US market and use sub-par parts compared to those over here?
I have a Vauxhall(Opel) GM Vectra 1.9CDTI (Diesel) on hire at the moment it's an awful car but good engine, so tacky and horrible, awaiting the delivery of my brand new shape A4 1.8TFSI
Dont forget Ford use PCT (Peugeot Citroen Group)'s Diesel Engines in their Diesels (TDCI)
Anyway it will always be europeans for me! Nissan make the ugliest cars available, Honda's are for old people and Toyotas are well..... ugh
Has to be the difference between the U.S models and European models. As with BMW, they are having some issues with the 335i's Twin Turbo engine as the high pressure fuel pump is failing prematurely. Mercedes in the US hit a major quality stump a couple years back, and VW was plagued with electrical problems. It's probably mostly all the electronic technology they stuff into their cars; it makes them so complex they tend to have problems.
Never come across any of those problems, got the say the German cars have to be THE most reliable, seems isolated to the US, maybe the German plants have a better understanding of their own product and therefore the reliability is up?
Those wheels quite a bit like the 02-07 WRX wheels...
And that's why they have the 4 year free maintenance program.
BMW's for the US come from 3 plants I believe, the Spartansburg one in South Carolina( the Z4,X5, and X6), the German plant( 3 series though I don't know if the 5, 6, and 7 are built there as well), or the Austrian plant( X3).
According to Consumer Reports surveys, the most reliable car makers (in order) are:
Honda
Toyota
Subaru
BMW, Mazda, Nissan, Volkswagen (tie)
Honda
Toyota
Subaru
BMW, Mazda, Nissan, Volkswagen (tie)