GM Says It's Nixing CarPlay to Make Drivers Safer

[jwdsail]

I may be wrong but I believe any Onstar enabled car can report location.

The 2G network sunset obsoleted cars from 2015 or older. They have no network connection anymore to report/communicate anything.

In-Car OnStar Service For 2015 And Older GM Vehicles Is About To End

The 2G network in the US is about to transition to 4G or 5G, and with it comes the usability of the OnStar buttons in older GM vehicles.

www.motor1.com

 

[cyb3rdud3]

AAOS in this case is just a building kit for GM to make their own OS. It will allow whatever they decide to do. They are not using an off-the-shelf Android Auto.

Ahem, nope, that is not what AAOS is. Not in the slightest. What GM can do is skin it and style it.

Are you saying that AAOS based customized OS doesn’t allow OEMs to hide access to certain apps behind subscriptions or disallow it altogether (e.g. Apple Music) ? Because it’s simply not true.

Again, not true, plenty of independents making their apps available for AAOS. Nothing stopping Apple from making their Android Apple Music app available on the AAOS platform via the play store as well.

GM is disallowing on-the-phone Android Auto as well, from what I read. They want to push the customers to the custom OS that they will design based on AAOS. And the primary reason is the potential to monetize it. Seriously, just visit r/GeneralMotors and see some honest discussions by GM own employees. They are openly saying that it’s all about finding different ways to monetize the product.

And no, I am not going to spend $40k on a mediocre product that locks me into using their onboard OS just to see that, yep, I was right and I don’t like it. Far easier to buy a product that does support CarPlay, and it they have AAOS based infotainment in that product and I try it and actually do think that it’s an overall superior experience, I may consider using it. But I will nor willingly lock myself into a GM trap.

 

[cyb3rdud3]

Some analysis from people who may know a thing or two about market decisions.

“GM is looking to monetize more software and services within its vehicles and is taking a page out of Tesla’s playbook," Dan Ives, managing director and senior equity research analyst at Wedbush Securities, told the Free Press.”

‘A huge blunder’: GM’s decision to ditch Apple CarPlay, Android Auto sparks backlash

GM defends its move to drop Apple CarPlay and Android Auto despite consumer backlash. Ford vows to keep it. Here's the story behind each decision.

www.usatoday.com

“GM's push for subscription-based monetization through its proprietary software Ultifi may be the bigger play here.”

GM believes removing Android Auto and CarPlay support makes its cars safer

The push for a custom solution may open up more monetization opportunities through subscriptions

www.msn.com

“Ultifi will enable GM to offer fee-based cloud services in its vehicles, which will include various in-vehicle subscriptions services, along with online shopping tools and more.”

https://gmauthority.com/blog/2022/02/gm-planning-to-add-50-in-vehicle-digital-services-by-2026/

(Can’t force users into Ultifi if they are happily using CarPlay though, can they ?)

“GM is joining Tesla and Rivian in not including Apple CarPlay in vehicles. Automakers hope to build a new revenue stream by selling subscriptions through the infotainment center.”

GM axing CarPlay is part of larger automaker battle over control, revenue

GM is joining Tesla and Rivian in not including Apple CarPlay in vehicles. Automakers hope to build a new revenue stream by selling subscriptions through the infotainment centre.

www.autonews.com

Sure, but Ultifi is not AAOS. You won't hear any arguments from me there. But now we are talking about a whole different system.

 

[SnowCrocodile]

Sure, but Ultifi is not AAOS. You won't hear any arguments from me there. But now we are talking about a whole different system.

So what are you arguing about then ?

GM is blocking CarPlay to force customers into having to use their custom AAOC based car OS so they could upsell them on Ultifi.

I am saying that as a customer, I refuse to participate and will not consider a GM product.

So what is your point then ? Where am I wrong here?

 

[cyb3rdud3]

So what are you arguing about then ?

GM is blocking CarPlay to force customers into having to use their custom AAOC based car OS so they could upsell them on Ultifi.

I am saying that as a customer, I refuse to participate and will not consider a GM product.

So what is your point then ? Where am I wrong here?

AAOS !== Ultifi, as simple as that. And yes, Ultifi is their platform to monetize and explore subscription-based services. And it is also quite common that multiple systems running in their own virtual machines on the same hardware in modern day in car systems. Afterall Ultifi is just a linux OS at its core.

I hear you that as a customer, you don't consider a GM product. I don't care, never cared, have no stake in GM and all of the above Likewise no skin off my back when someone refuses to use anything else besides Apple CarPlay. Entirely anyone's personal choice. But let's not make up stuff about the other systems.

 

[SnowCrocodile]

AAOS !== Ultifi, as simple as that. And yes, Ultifi is their platform to monetize and explore subscription-based services. And it is also quite common that multiple systems running in their own virtual machines on the same hardware in modern day in car systems. Afterall Ultifi is just a linux OS at its core.

I hear you that as a customer, you don't consider a GM product. I don't care, never cared, have no stake in GM and all of the above Likewise no skin off my back when someone refuses to use anything else besides Apple CarPlay. Entirely anyone's personal choice. But let's not make up stuff about the other systems.

OK, I feel like we keep talking in different circles here... have a good day.

 

[SnowCrocodile]

A little preview of GM product & in-car infotainment execution awesomeness. Remember this is not just a random car off the dealers lot, it’s product that was handpicked by GM for review.

The 2024 Chevrolet Blazer EV Left Me Stranded In Rural Virginia

It broke down a mere 28 hours in my possession, stranding me in Wythesville, Virginia. It's not clear if it's the charger's fault or the car's.

insideevs.com

 

[gank41]

A little preview of GM product & in-car infotainment execution awesomeness. Remember this is not just a random car off the dealers lot, it’s product that was handpicked by GM for review.

The 2024 Chevrolet Blazer EV Left Me Stranded In Rural Virginia

It broke down a mere 28 hours in my possession, stranding me in Wythesville, Virginia. It's not clear if it's the charger's fault or the car's.

insideevs.com

From what I've seen in person, their new system is just as unintuitive as their MyLink OS is. But geesh! I wasn't expecting it to just stop working all together...

"Initially, the Blazer EV was just fine. But about 25 minutes outside of Gallipolis, there was a quick pause in the Bluetooth audio, and then the whole infotainment screen went blank. The heating, AC, and volume controls still worked, but all of the icons were missing. The gauge cluster’s Google Maps integration still showed my location, and I still had speed and range, so I figured the car was okay, and this was just a glitch."

Yikes!!

"I sat on the side of the road for the next 20 minutes, skimming through Lyriq forums and Reddit posts, hoping there was a quick fix and I could get back on the road. The consensus is that if the reset didn’t work, many Lyriq infotainment problems have been fixed when the vehicle goes into “deep sleep,” turning off many of its complicated computer modules. This would involve walking away from a locked vehicle for at least five minutes, something that wasn’t possible or safe to do on a busy freeway."

Double Yikes!!

 

[bigjnyc]

I fully expected this thread to be full of people who's feelings get hurt whenever someone slights Apple and a bunch of insults hurled at GM.... Was not disappointed.

 

[cyb3rdud3]

A little preview of GM product & in-car infotainment execution awesomeness. Remember this is not just a random car off the dealers lot, it’s product that was handpicked by GM for review.

The 2024 Chevrolet Blazer EV Left Me Stranded In Rural Virginia

It broke down a mere 28 hours in my possession, stranding me in Wythesville, Virginia. It's not clear if it's the charger's fault or the car's.

insideevs.com

They should have gone with Google AAOS instead of making their own OS 😇🤣

 

[SnowCrocodile]

They should have gone with Google AAOS instead of making their own OS 😇🤣

Then how do they force you to pay for their subscriptions?

This was my point all along. I am not opposed to having AAOS as an option. I am opposed to GM forcing their paywalled version on me and disabling my ability to use CarPlay so they can sell subscriptions, collect my data, and sell ad space or other kind of “eyeball access” to 3rd parties. That’s a no starter right there.

 

[diamond.g]

Then how do they force you to pay for their subscriptions?

This was my point all along. I am not opposed to having AAOS as an option. I am opposed to GM forcing their paywalled version on me and disabling my ability to use CarPlay so they can sell subscriptions, collect my data, and sell ad space or other kind of “eyeball access” to 3rd parties. That’s a no starter right there.

At least in this instance, CarPlay wouldn't have helped the Blazer EV charge...

EDIT: apparently per a Hummer EV owner in the comments that specific EA charge site broke their vehicle as well.

 

[cwosigns]

A little preview of GM product & in-car infotainment execution awesomeness. Remember this is not just a random car off the dealers lot, it’s product that was handpicked by GM for review.

The 2024 Chevrolet Blazer EV Left Me Stranded In Rural Virginia

It broke down a mere 28 hours in my possession, stranding me in Wythesville, Virginia. It's not clear if it's the charger's fault or the car's.

insideevs.com

Came here to post this. I'm so glad they weren't using CarPlay; otherwise things could have ended badly. /sarcasm

 

[SnowCrocodile]

At least in this instance, CarPlay wouldn't have helped the Blazer EV charge...

EDIT: apparently per a Hummer EV owner in the comments that specific EA charge site broke their vehicle as well.

Yes but if you read through the comments, nearly all “broken” cars are GM ones.

Also, it doesn’t explain the infotainment system shutting down before he even arrived at tht charging station.

 

[diamond.g]

Yes but if you read through the comments, nearly all “broken” cars are GM ones.

Also, it doesn’t explain the infotainment system shutting down before he even arrived at tht charging station.

yeah, at EA stations. Could be why they partnered with evGO...

I'm not sure if the infotainment issues would not be present if the vehicle had CarPlay. Seems like the base OS issues could/would be present even if you could get CarPlay to work.

 

[SnowCrocodile]

yeah, at EA stations. Could be why they partnered with evGO...

I'm not sure if the infotainment issues would not be present if the vehicle had CarPlay. Seems like the base OS issues could/would be present even if you could get CarPlay to work.

Yes, infotainment shutting down would disable CarPlay as well. But it’s a good illustration of the real life performance of GM’s supposed “safer” solution that they are force feeding their customers.

 

[cyb3rdud3]

Yes but if you read through the comments, nearly all “broken” cars are GM ones.

Also, it doesn’t explain the infotainment system shutting down before he even arrived at tht charging station.

Yes, reads a bit like there is an incompatibility between their Ultium architecture and certain chargers. Sadly not that uncommon and not limited to GM, I really JLR having issues for their iPace with certain chargers as well.

 

[WC7]

One more question ... does this mean we won't see the iPhone or Apple Watch being used to unlock your car?

 

[cyb3rdud3]

One more question ... does this mean we won't see the iPhone or Apple Watch being used to unlock your car?

Not necessarily. CarPlay runs on your phone. So without a connection to the CarPlay receiver the car isn’t actually aware, let alone the security system for the enclosure and/or immobilisation. In short, car play isn’t required to use a phone as key.

Many systems use the iPhone BLE5 connection after it’s registered as a key to unlock.

Other cars may be developing to use Apples own APIs for that purpose.

So no it doesn’t have to exclude it.

I love using phone as key. It’s very convenient.

 

[danwells]

I think we may not see phone as key from GM, although Tesla does it, and they don't support CarPlay, either.

GM has already announced that the first generation AAOS system will have a free trial of maps and some other things, and then become a required subscription (no navigation without subscription, and no way to bypass it short of a vent mounted phone). For the first generation, the free trial is LONG (eight years), but GM has a habit of shortening those trials as a model's life goes on, not for existing cars but a new model year will have a shorter trial than the last. I've owned two Volts, and the first one (2014) had a five (or was it ten) year trial of a lot of OnStar features, including the car's app. The second one (2017, my current vehicle) had a one-year trial. I live without the app, not wanting to pay for OnStar. I suspect that a 2026 or 2027 Blazer will have a one-year navigation trial that leads into a subscription (and nav is a lot harder to bypass safely than an app in a 2017 car). With a six-year-old (non-Tesla) car, the app is a convenience, but not a necessity. In a very new car or a Tesla, you need the app. Vent mounts really are a heck of a lot less safe than having nav on the car's screen.

Is this REALLY good news for Garmin, because dash mount GPSs will suddenly become widely relevant again?

Another question this brings up is whether the nav will be "log in to use". Google would love to force us to log in to a Google account, and GM could say that, since Google accounts are free, it's not an extra charge. This causes two problems. One is rental cars (rental agencies could create a whole bunch of Google accounts and log all the cars into nonsense accounts, but they may not be that smart) - if the cars aren't logged in to fake accounts, there's an enormous risk of someone leaving their Google account in a rental.

The other problem is that many people (including me) are VERY careful with Google. I have gmail, but I read it in a mail program and not a browser to avoid Google's cookies (which they bake to Vladimir Putin's recipe, complete with poison). I use Google search, but, again, not logged in. If I ever have to log in to Google in a browser, I immediately quit Safari (I won't even THINK of using Chrome), letting Cookie do its thing. For anyone who doesn't know, Cookie is a commercial, but relatively cheap, cookie manager. I have it set to delete most cookies on sight, especially Google, Facebook/Meta, Amazon, etc. I check my cookie list every few days and make sure none of those are on there (I let the New York Times keep a cookie, and a few others, although I kill their ad tracking cookies as well). You can't run a cookie manager on a car head unit, so Google could collect data from a continuous login, and tie it to an account. The privacy implications are terrifying.

Depending on your situation, do you want Google knowing (and showing any cop who asks nicely) whether you've been to the abortion clinic, the gun shop, the marijuana dispensary? If you live in Alabama, do you want them knowing you frequent Democratic HQ or a Pride parade? If you live in Massachusetts, do you want them knowing you've been to a Trump rally? Even if you think those companies would never do anything malicious, do you trust their algorithms never to get it wrong? Facebook, another massive data vacuum, once sold the membership list of a private LGBTQ+ teen support group to the local Evangelical church, with no human ever seeing the transaction - the church simply searched and bought online. At least one person committed suicide after being bombarded with conversion therapy ads telling them they were going to Hell. That could just as easily be turned around - if you're Evangelical, do you want ACT UP to be able to buy your church membership list and send you a billion explicit ads?

On another part of the story, I agree with the folks who say infotainment is getting to be too much, and want more knobs and buttons. Unfortunately, cars have acquired so many controls that many of them simply HAVE to be tucked away in menus. This happened to airliners about 25 years ago...

Here's the cockpit of an early 747, pre-glass cockpit.

And here's a modern 787 Dreamliner, with touch screens reducing the number of buttons and dials by 90% or so

Note that the Dreamliner still has physical controls for the things the pilots use often (and that's what car makers need to master)...

 

[danwells]

In other CarPlay news , we just saw the first examples of the multi-screen New CarPlay running in real cars that will soon be on the market. From two entirely mainstream brands that everybody considers for basic, economical, everyday transportation😂😂😂. Porsche is the MORE common - but only because the other one is Aston Martin...

Aston is mostly independent, and the only car company to own a share is Mercedes-Benz (an improvement, but only a slight one).

Porsche is largely owned by Volkswagen, and tends to use VW-derived infotainment, so we COULD see this in real cars instead of rolling sculptures relatively soon...

 

[SnowCrocodile]

...

Is this REALLY good news for Garmin, because dash mount GPSs will suddenly become widely relevant again?

...

No, it's REALLY bad news for GM, because there's absolutely nothing that makes their products stand out compared to competition.

I am no fan of Tesla, but I understand what made them special.

GM is... your grandpa's old car that kept blowing head gasket at 90k miles.

 

[SnowCrocodile]

The gift that just keeps on giving...

Our Chevy Blazer EV Has 23 Problems After Only 2 Months | Edmunds

Our 2024 Blazer EV is very, very broken. A road trip from Los Angeles to San Diego revealed a number of faults, but when we got the diagnosis from the dealer, we were shocked at what we saw. Read up on all our EV's problems right here.

www.edmunds.com

 

[SnowCrocodile]

In other news...

Aston Martin and Porsche tease 2024 models running next-gen Apple CarPlay

The next generation of Apple’s CarPlay interface has been previewed in luxury cars made by Porsche and Aston Martin.

www.engadget.com

 

[JoeShades]

I think we may not see phone as key from GM, although Tesla does it, and they don't support CarPlay, either.

GM has already announced that the first generation AAOS system will have a free trial of maps and some other things, and then become a required subscription (no navigation without subscription, and no way to bypass it short of a vent mounted phone). For the first generation, the free trial is LONG (eight years), but GM has a habit of shortening those trials as a model's life goes on, not for existing cars but a new model year will have a shorter trial than the last. I've owned two Volts, and the first one (2014) had a five (or was it ten) year trial of a lot of OnStar features, including the car's app. The second one (2017, my current vehicle) had a one-year trial. I live without the app, not wanting to pay for OnStar. I suspect that a 2026 or 2027 Blazer will have a one-year navigation trial that leads into a subscription (and nav is a lot harder to bypass safely than an app in a 2017 car). With a six-year-old (non-Tesla) car, the app is a convenience, but not a necessity. In a very new car or a Tesla, you need the app. Vent mounts really are a heck of a lot less safe than having nav on the car's screen.

Is this REALLY good news for Garmin, because dash mount GPSs will suddenly become widely relevant again?

Another question this brings up is whether the nav will be "log in to use". Google would love to force us to log in to a Google account, and GM could say that, since Google accounts are free, it's not an extra charge. This causes two problems. One is rental cars (rental agencies could create a whole bunch of Google accounts and log all the cars into nonsense accounts, but they may not be that smart) - if the cars aren't logged in to fake accounts, there's an enormous risk of someone leaving their Google account in a rental.

The other problem is that many people (including me) are VERY careful with Google. I have gmail, but I read it in a mail program and not a browser to avoid Google's cookies (which they bake to Vladimir Putin's recipe, complete with poison). I use Google search, but, again, not logged in. If I ever have to log in to Google in a browser, I immediately quit Safari (I won't even THINK of using Chrome), letting Cookie do its thing. For anyone who doesn't know, Cookie is a commercial, but relatively cheap, cookie manager. I have it set to delete most cookies on sight, especially Google, Facebook/Meta, Amazon, etc. I check my cookie list every few days and make sure none of those are on there (I let the New York Times keep a cookie, and a few others, although I kill their ad tracking cookies as well). You can't run a cookie manager on a car head unit, so Google could collect data from a continuous login, and tie it to an account. The privacy implications are terrifying.

Depending on your situation, do you want Google knowing (and showing any cop who asks nicely) whether you've been to the abortion clinic, the gun shop, the marijuana dispensary? If you live in Alabama, do you want them knowing you frequent Democratic HQ or a Pride parade? If you live in Massachusetts, do you want them knowing you've been to a Trump rally? Even if you think those companies would never do anything malicious, do you trust their algorithms never to get it wrong? Facebook, another massive data vacuum, once sold the membership list of a private LGBTQ+ teen support group to the local Evangelical church, with no human ever seeing the transaction - the church simply searched and bought online. At least one person committed suicide after being bombarded with conversion therapy ads telling them they were going to Hell. That could just as easily be turned around - if you're Evangelical, do you want ACT UP to be able to buy your church membership list and send you a billion explicit ads?

On another part of the story, I agree with the folks who say infotainment is getting to be too much, and want more knobs and buttons. Unfortunately, cars have acquired so many controls that many of them simply HAVE to be tucked away in menus. This happened to airliners about 25 years ago...

Here's the cockpit of an early 747, pre-glass cockpit.
View attachment 2327219

And here's a modern 787 Dreamliner, with touch screens reducing the number of buttons and dials by 90% or so
View attachment 2327218
Note that the Dreamliner still has physical controls for the things the pilots use often (and that's what car makers need to master)...