GM Says It's Nixing CarPlay to Make Drivers Safer

[AZhappyjack]

The union member, hands down, no question. And the data proves it. When workers are constantly in fear of their job they only do enough to not get fired. When workers are treated well they tend to do much higher quality work.

Please back up your statement ("and the data proves it") with proof - independent, verifiable proof.

 

[cyb3rdud3]

No, union members consistently do better work are more qualified and better trained. They are invested in what they do. Non-union workers typically are treated worse so they care less to do good work.

Well, we have quite unfamiliar experiences. If only union workers would pay as much attention to their job duties as they would do to their personal rights, then perhaps so. In reality, my experience differs very much so from yours.

 

[Treq]

Please back up your statement ("and the data proves it") with proof - independent, verifiable proof.

No, because Google sucks now and I can’t find the study by the bureau of labor statistics that I read a while back. Look it up yourself. But it is true that union members are safer, have better healthcare, better pay, better job security and as a result tend to do better work than a non-union worker who has none of those things. Tesla is a great example of that.

 

[Treq]

Well, we have quite unfamiliar experiences. If only union workers would pay as much attention to their job duties as they would do to their personal rights, then perhaps so. In reality, my experience differs very much so from yours.

As a union member for the last 30ish years I can tell you it is absolutely true. Non-union workers are never trained as well, or work as hard as union members. Unions tend to have training programs. Non-union workers tend to lie about how much experience they have to get or keep a job.

 

[AZhappyjack]

No, because Google sucks now and I can’t find the study by the bureau of labor statistics that I read a while back. Look it up yourself. But it is true that union members are safer, have better healthcare, better pay, better job security and as a result tend to do better work than a non-union worker who has none of those things. Tesla is a great example of that.

It’s true because you say so? If you can’t back it up, it must be made up.

 

[AZhappyjack]

As a union member for the last 30ish years I can tell you it is absolutely true. Non-union workers are never trained as well, or work as hard as union members. Unions tend to have training programs. Non-union workers tend to lie about how much experience they have to get or keep a job.

Again, prove it.

 

[Treq]

Again, prove it.

Why? Go look it up. Can you refute it? There is a report by the bureau of labor statistics that I can’t find right now. I don’t have the time to look it up for you. Do you have any logical reason to disbelieve it? Do you have any reason to think union workers are worse than non-union workers other than vague feelings and corporate propaganda? Unions workers are better trained. That’s a fact. They have journeyman programs and training classes. Maybe not every union but in mine and many others, they do. Certainly more than non-union workers who have nothing. They have better safety training and safer working environments. Union workers are just better across the board. The only argument against unions is they cost more to hire workers because they don’t accept less than they are worth. When there is fewer union workers, their is a smaller middle class and lower quality products. This is the truth wether you believe it or not.

 

[Treq]

It’s true because you say so? If you can’t back it up, it must be made up.

In my experience, people on the internet never accept data when you give it to them. They will cling to their ideologies until they die instead of accepting the truth when presented to them. It is a waste of time. It is much better for you to go look it up yourself and try to disprove your own stance on a subject. Just like the scientific method. Disprove your own hypothesis and if you can, it’s wrong.

 

[AZhappyjack]

Why? Go look it up. Can you refute it? There is a report by the bureau of labor statistics that I can’t find right now. I don’t have the time to look it up for you. Do you have any logical reason to disbelieve it? Do you have any reason to think union workers are worse than non-union workers other than vague feelings and corporate propaganda? Unions workers are better trained. That’s a fact. They have journeyman programs and training classes. Maybe not every union but in mine and many others, they do. Certainly more than non-union workers who have nothing. They have better safety training and safer working environments. Union workers are just better across the board. The only argument against unions is they cost more to hire workers because they don’t accept less than they are worth. When there is fewer union workers, their is a smaller middle class and lower quality products. This is the truth wether you believe it or not.

Why?

It's a rule of the forum:

MacRumors Rules for Appropriate Debate

These rules and guidelines describe the acceptable and unacceptable ways to participate in a discussion in a MacRumors forum thread. These rules augment and clarify the general Forum Rules. Guideli...

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Sources. If you claim that something's a fact, back it up with a source. When evidence of your claim is requested, you can either provide evidence or retract your claim. If you can't produce evidence when someone asks you to cite your sources, we may remove your posts. If you started the thread, then we may remove or close the thread.

In my experience, people on the internet never accept data when you give it to them. They will cling to their ideologies until they die instead of accepting the truth when presented to them. It is a waste of time. It is much better for you to go look it up yourself and try to disprove your own stance on a subject. Just like the scientific method. Disprove your own hypothesis and if you can, it’s wrong.

Again, per the forum rules, you made a claim... so back it up.

Sources. If you claim that something's a fact, back it up with a source. When evidence of your claim is requested, you can either provide evidence or retract your claim. If you can't produce evidence when someone asks you to cite your sources, we may remove your posts. If you started the thread, then we may remove or close the thread.

 

[Treq]

Why?

It's a rule of the forum:

MacRumors Rules for Appropriate Debate

These rules and guidelines describe the acceptable and unacceptable ways to participate in a discussion in a MacRumors forum thread. These rules augment and clarify the general Forum Rules. Guideli...

macrumors.zendesk.com

Sources. If you claim that something's a fact, back it up with a source. When evidence of your claim is requested, you can either provide evidence or retract your claim. If you can't produce evidence when someone asks you to cite your sources, we may remove your posts. If you started the thread, then we may remove or close the thread.


Again, per the forum rules, you made a claim... so back it up.

Sources. If you claim that something's a fact, back it up with a source. When evidence of your claim is requested, you can either provide evidence or retract your claim. If you can't produce evidence when someone asks you to cite your sources, we may remove your posts. If you started the thread, then we may remove or close the thread.

I’ll do it later. I’m at work and since I’m a union worker, I take pride in doing my job.

 

[cyb3rdud3]

As a union member for the last 30ish years I can tell you it is absolutely true. Non-union workers are never trained as well, or work as hard as union members. Unions tend to have training programs. Non-union workers tend to lie about how much experience they have to get or keep a job.

As a union member for the last 30ish years I can tell you it is absolutely true. Non-union workers are never trained as well, or work as hard as union members. Unions tend to have training programs. Non-union workers tend to lie about how much experience they have to get or keep a job.

I guess we come at this from very different perspectives. You don't need a union for training programmes, you don't need a union for a safer environment, to have better healthcare, to have better pay, nor better job security. Those are just core legal employment frameworks.

But perhaps as I'm in Europe and I suspect you are in the US, we have such different experiences. Unions are considered dinosaurs over here in most organisations. They rarely bring anything constructive to the table.

Non-union workers tend to lie about how much experience they have? WTF? Are you serious? That is super offensive to all those who aren't union members. What a ridiculous thing to say. LOL Like Len McCluskey can comprehend what I do, let alone assess my skills. Sorry but that is too funny, and a clear indication about how irrelevant all these statements are.

 

[Treq]

I guess we come at this from very different perspectives. You don't need a union for training programmes, you don't need a union for a safer environment, to have better healthcare, to have better pay, nor better job security. Those are just core legal employment frameworks.

But perhaps as I'm in Europe and I suspect you are in the US, we have such different experiences. Unions are considered dinosaurs over here in most organisations. They rarely bring anything constructive to the table.

Non-union workers tend to lie about how much experience they have? WTF? Are you serious? That is super offensive to all those who aren't union members. What a ridiculous thing to say. LOL Like Len McCluskey can comprehend what I do, let alone assess my skills. Sorry but that is too funny, and a clear indication about how irrelevant all these statements are.

Maybe in Europe they have a better worker protections and are more employee focused but here in the US if you aren't in a union you are usually SOL if you have a dispute with an employer. You can sue them, but that costs a ton of money. If there isn't some obvious legal violation that you can report, you are left on your own to get an employer to make it right. Even if there is an obvious legal violation the laws have been so skewed in favor of employers that at most they get a slap on the wrist and you will find yourself out of a job eventually for some made up violation. We are at-will employment. And with such a focus on "free markets" they tend to make the employees compete for work. Hence people lying about their experience to get or keep a job... it's not an insult, it's just a fact that happens every day. You don't need a union to have worker training programs, but you don't see them often without one. Here in the US the largest category of theft by far is wage theft by employers. Most of which is never recovered by employees who fear losing their jobs because they have no union to fight for them to get it back and they can't afford a lawyer to sue them. Non-union workers get screwed in the US. Employers keep their workers afraid to lose their jobs so they work for much less than their work is worth, and put up with horrible working conditions because they have no one to protect them. That's why they will lie to get a job and lie to keep it. Seen it many, many times. Lying on your resume is so common here it's practically expected. Union workers make more, have better safety protections, have a better recourse for grievances against employers, and have better healthcare. Something that costs a lot of money here in the US in case you haven't heard. So, unions are far from dinosaurs here and a lot to the table that maybe you in Europe take for granted. BTW your statement that you don't need unions for safety, training programs, better pay, or job security... the reason you don't is because unions fought for them in the past. You can thank a union for all of that. 5-day work week... unions. 8hr work day... unions. Safety programs... unions. There would be no OSHA without unions. Anyway, I've been rambling.... the basic gist of my ramblings is without a union there is a vast gap in the power dynamic between employer and employee, and when that happens the one with far less power always loses... in this case that is the employee every time. Unions are still very necessary and make things better for employees in just about every case.

 

[AZhappyjack]

Maybe in Europe they have a better worker protections and are more employee focused but here in the US if you aren't in a union you are usually SOL if you have a dispute with an employer. You can sue them, but that costs a ton of money. If there isn't some obvious legal violation that you can report, you are left on your own to get an employer to make it right. Even if there is an obvious legal violation the laws have been so skewed in favor of employers that at most they get a slap on the wrist and you will find yourself out of a job eventually for some made up violation. We are at-will employment. And with such a focus on "free markets" they tend to make the employees compete for work. Hence people lying about their experience to get or keep a job... it's not an insult, it's just a fact that happens every day. You don't need a union to have worker training programs, but you don't see them often without one. Here in the US the largest category of theft by far is wage theft by employers. Most of which is never recovered by employees who fear losing their jobs because they have no union to fight for them to get it back and they can't afford a lawyer to sue them. Non-union workers get screwed in the US. Employers keep their workers afraid to lose their jobs so they work for much less than their work is worth, and put up with horrible working conditions because they have no one to protect them. That's why they will lie to get a job and lie to keep it. Seen it many, many times. Lying on your resume is so common here it's practically expected. Union workers make more, have better safety protections, have a better recourse for grievances against employers, and have better healthcare. Something that costs a lot of money here in the US in case you haven't heard. So, unions are far from dinosaurs here and a lot to the table that maybe you in Europe take for granted. BTW your statement that you don't need unions for safety, training programs, better pay, or job security... the reason you don't is because unions fought for them in the past. You can thank a union for all of that. 5-day work week... unions. 8hr work day... unions. Safety programs... unions. There would be no OSHA without unions. Anyway, I've been rambling.... the basic gist of my ramblings is without a union there is a vast gap in the power dynamic between employer and employee, and when that happens the one with far less power always loses... in this case that is the employee every time. Unions are still very necessary and make things better for employees in just about every case.

Still waiting for your source to backup your earlier post…

 

[lyngo]

Maybe it is me, but this thread (often times like many others) had derailed. Making assertions should prompt someone to certainly have some information (factual information) to back up their claims. But, on the other hand, the internet or a message forum isn't writing a research paper either. I don't know....

Perhaps we can get back on track? Can we talk about the alternative of what GM is putting in instead of CarPlay and share how much that is going to (theoretically) suck compared to CarPlay?

 

[gank41]

Looks like Ford is following thru with the same playbook…

Ford unveils its new Android Automotive experience, coming to 2024 vehicles [Gallery]

Ford is going all-in on Google’s Android Automotive, with the Detroit automaker today unveiling its new “Ford and Lincoln Digital...

9to5google.com

 

[cyb3rdud3]

Looks like Ford is following thru with the same playbook…

Ford unveils its new Android Automotive experience, coming to 2024 vehicles [Gallery]

Ford is going all-in on Google’s Android Automotive, with the Detroit automaker today unveiling its new “Ford and Lincoln Digital...

9to5google.com

As someone who has been using AAOS for two years now, that is a good thing. And yes Apple CarPlay works across multiple screens but AAOS is so good I just don’t use CarPlay.

 

[Tagbert]

Looks like Ford is following thru with the same playbook…

Ford unveils its new Android Automotive experience, coming to 2024 vehicles [Gallery]

Ford is going all-in on Google’s Android Automotive, with the Detroit automaker today unveiling its new “Ford and Lincoln Digital...

9to5google.com

Putting Android Automotive in a car does not prevent you from supporting CarPlay. When GM made their anouncement, the CEO of Ford mentioned in interviews that Ford will continue to support CarPlay because that is what their customers want.

In fact Honda is working with GM on a couple of new models to be built by GM using the same Ultium platform as the Chevy Blazer. Honda has opted to support CarPlay on their version of the same vehicles.

 

[Tagbert]

As someone who has been using AAOS for two years now, that is a good thing. And yes Apple CarPlay works across multiple screens but AAOS is so good I just don’t use CarPlay.

That’s great, but for many of us, it is not about whether AAOS is any good or not. We just want to have our personal phones integrated into our personal vehicles. GM has just taken itself out of consideration buy refusing to consider its customers desires. i hope that the massive new revenue from subscriptions is worth it.

 

[cyb3rdud3]

That’s great, but for many of us, it is not about whether AAOS is any good or not. We just want to have our personal phones integrated into our personal vehicles. GM has just taken itself out of consideration buy refusing to consider its customers desires. i hope that the massive new revenue from subscriptions is worth it.

The comment I replied to was regarding Ford As you say yourself they don't do that. And as I highlighted earlier in the thread GM is using their own version which is causing confusion. So in the context of what I said, you have the choice. Some like keep using Apple CarPlay, some don't. I'm in the latter camp as it doesn't provide any benefits to me as my music, text message, desitnations are synched regardless. Yet Carplay can not (yet!?) get the EV status which is a pretty amazing benefit to have route specific information and integration. But as it is just an app, one can always combine the two as well; say have your favourite podcast app only on iPhone play, whilst using the Google or Waze maps.

 

[WC7]

I am still waiting to see the cars that will support CarPlay 2 ... with the driving screen and the center screen. I think it's mostly higher end cars ... but still not sure how CarPlay 2 looks.

 

[Tagbert]

The comment I replied to was regarding Ford As you say yourself they don't do that. And as I highlighted earlier in the thread GM is using their own version which is causing confusion. So in the context of what I said, you have the choice. Some like keep using Apple CarPlay, some don't. I'm in the latter camp as it doesn't provide any benefits to me as my music, text message, desitnations are synched regardless. Yet Carplay can not (yet!?) get the EV status which is a pretty amazing benefit to have route specific information and integration. But as it is just an app, one can always combine the two as well; say have your favourite podcast app only on iPhone play, whilst using the Google or Waze maps.

CarPlay can get the EV battery and range status, if the manufacturer makes the data available. Only a few have, so far.

Podcasts are the main reason why I need CarPlay in my car. I can seamlessly transition from listening to a podcast while walking to listening at the same point when I get in the car, and then continue when I get home. That is not possible if the podcasts are on separate systems.

GM doesn’t give customers any choice about using CarPlay. The only choice is to buy GM or not. I should be a good candidate for a GM EV. I have a Chevy Volt that has been really good. I was interested in an Equinox until GM dumped on CarPlay. Now GM is no longer in consideration.

 

[cyb3rdud3]

I am still waiting to see the cars that will support CarPlay 2 ... with the driving screen and the center screen. I think it's mostly higher end cars ... but still not sure how CarPlay 2 looks.

Porsche and Aston Martin look to be the first ones. I'm hoping the new Porsche Macan EV will have it, that would be interesting to experience.

 

[DrMotownMac]

Steve Jobs used to have a perfect name for the kind of people who made decisions like the one GM made about no longer supporting CarPlay: BOZOS. These are the same kind of "businessmen" depicted in Pirates of Silicon Valley.

Like the executive (or lawyer?) at HP who asked Woz, "What on earth would ordinary people want with computers?"

Or the CEO of Xerox who asked the computer scientist from Xerox PARC (presumably Adele Goldberg), "You want Xerox to consider something called a mouse?"

Perhaps the best was the guy from IBM who told Bill Gates that "the profits are in the computers themselves, not this software stuff." Oops.

Now, GM thinks they can eliminate CarPlay from every one of their vehicles, and that won't adversely affect car sales at all. Maybe the CEO is saying something like, "Customers are shopping for the right body design, color, horsepower, and fuel economy. Not this user interface stuff." Well, for me, CarPlay is the single best new car feature I've had in my car since the keyless electronic fob I first had almost 20 years ago. I would NEVER go back to a vehicle without it. In fact, I have it on from the time I start my car until I park it. GPS via Apple Maps (or Google Maps sometimes), text messaging, phone calls, Apple Music, Podcasts using Overcast, Audible books, etc. I couldn't live without all of this now. It would be like asking me to give up my iPhone and go back to the Palm Treo I had before June 29, 2007.

Bozos...every last one of them.

 

[Hammer73]

You cars are statistically safe if you're not selling any.

 

[Reverend Billy]

"...... eliminating ‌CarPlay‌ will provide GM with more control over driver data, and it will allow GM to offer subscription services and apps that allow for purchases of food, gas, and other sundries."

There's your answer to "why". And, believe me, you will be required to pay for a subscription if you want to get any concrete benefit from the app.