Going iPad only

[mortenandersen]

Reply to ipedro

First he quoted me: "Obviously it cannot do so, ever, lacking a hardware keyboard (among several things). It can be used for consuming content and only to a very limited degree to create data (because the lack of a good (= hardware) keyboard)."

Then he wrote: "A desktop also lacks a hardware keyboard. It's a peripheral. An iPad works perfectly well with a keyboard as a peripheral."

What a meaningless comparison: What you call a desktop is NOT something meant to be carried around, as the iPad is made for doing. So of course you have a stationary box, screen AND keyboard - all necessary parts as, in reality, a single unit.

The iPad alone is nothing but a touchscreen (hardwarewise), and to use it as a convenient computer, for data input also, to have to drag a keyboard around in addition to the screen.

This shows the "logic" of argumentation of iPad "alone" - namely that for being able to have a user friendly (= not virtual keyboard) device, you have to drag around with a keyboard also. And the comparison with desktop is plain silly: That device (as a whole, all necessary parts, just not to be misunderstood) is made for being stataionary, and to say that the keyboard is an accessory just as it is for an iPad, is just neglecting the fact that these two units (desktop and iPad) cannot be compared and seen as similar because the keyboard is also an accessory also for the desktop.

The kind of reasoning in ipedro's post is so il-logical that one is tempted to give up, and rather wonder why some people seemingly have such a strong need to defend the greatness of "iPad alone", also in totally irrational idealizing ways. Get a PC/Mac in addition to the iPad, and please stop pretending that the iPad is more versatile than it really is: It is a pretty handy and portable touchscreen, too big to put in your pocket and too small to use in a comforable way as a screen for serious work, but OK for entertainment and consuming stuff that others have produced. The notion of "iPad alone" is indeed a strange construction of a concept: Some people use it implying also using an extra keyboard, but doing so without admitting that an external keyboard is needed for almost all productive work, but then you have left the "iPad alone" and have to carry with you TWO UNITS. In productive work situations, I think most people will prefer a small PC, that HAS a keyboard and is much more portable as a single device, that also in a more convenient and easy way can be used on the laptop sitting in a good chair or even in bed. Using an external keyboard and a stand alone screen (aka iPad) is not a good solution if you are not sitting with the two units placed on a table in front of you, and you also have to carry to separate units, which really is a chore.

But of course: Cases with keyboards, as the ZaggFolio and Logitech Ultrathin Keyboard, can be regarded as a very good solution to these problems, but then we are no longer talking about the strange and almost stubborn/fanatic notion of "iPad alone".

 

[Abazigal]

In all fairness, there are portable keyboard cases which effectively turn the ipad into a netbook of sorts (albeit one with flash storage, high-def screen, 3G and good batt life). I myself have ordered a zaggfolio, though it won't arrive for another 2 weeks.

Not to mention there have been a few articles on this.

http://news.cnet.com/8301-33200_3-57363530-290/what-the-world-needs-now-an-ios-laptop/
http://technologizer.com/2011/12/05/how-the-ipad-2-became-my-favorite-computer/

So the underlying message seems to be, yes, it can be done, but with caveats.

Just like a scooter is clearly inferior to the car in terms of speed, comfort and carrying capacity, but it is not without advantages of its own. It is cheaper and easier to maintain, lets you weave in and out of traffic etc.

If I extend this analogy to the ipad, the ipad too has its pros and cons, and you will clearly have to make some sacrifices. Question is - can you live with them?

 

[thelookingglass]

Are You really able to VIEW video files, word documents, rar archives, pdf files, mp3 files in Your Windows Explorer? Last time when ive checked, explorer couldnt even view rar files or play mp3s.
Because Your argument was that You are able to view all of them from one place, and just listing directory contents isnt exactly viewing of file contents. Because listing rows and columns of abstract filenames, which usually have completely nothing to do with actual file contents is actually argument agains filesystems

Not only Windows, but even geek linuxes are trying to "hide" actual files under the hood, so why Apple should now start to do something oposite with their mobile os ?

No, my argument was that I want to organize my files as I wish and not have to think about which app I need to open first. Take the example I cited above of a folder with contents regarding my daughter. On either a Mac or a PC, I never even have to think about what app is running. I click on a mov file and it plays. Close that and see a Word doc she created. Click it and I'm reading away. Close that and open a photoshop file. Get the point?

As to your second point, all the system files can be hidden for all I care. Fine by me. I just want to be able to organize MY files the way I want to.

 

[BiggAW]

Even if the iPad magically had over 1TB of storage, how the heck would I manage over 165,000 files organized in over 12,000 folders on an iPad? That's one of the fundamental issues.

EDIT: Typo

 

[Abazigal]

Even if the iPad magically had over 1TB of storage, how the heck would I manage over 165,000 files organized in over 12,000 folders on an iPad? That's one of the fundamental issues.

EDIT: Typo

Do I even want to know why or how you have that many files?

 

[Dinth1906]

No, my argument was that I want to organize my files as I wish and not have to think about which app I need to open first. Take the example I cited above of a folder with contents regarding my daughter. On either a Mac or a PC, I never even have to think about what app is running. I click on a mov file and it plays. Close that and see a Word doc she created. Click it and I'm reading away. Close that and open a photoshop file. Get the point?

As to your second point, all the system files can be hidden for all I care. Fine by me. I just want to be able to organize MY files the way I want to.

I see Your point but why would You like to organize your files by yourself if machine can do exactly the same thing for you even better? Check out how content-aware, semantic search looks for example in Nepomuk and imagine how this would work on iOS. Just saying "Siri, show me all pictures with my sister on and all her documents", or "Siri, show me all my historic documents regarding king charles iv", or "Siri, show me all psd files, which andrew sent to me".

 

[Fattytail]

I see Your point but why would You like to organize your files by yourself if machine can do exactly the same thing for you even better? Check out how content-aware, semantic search looks for example in Nepomuk and imagine how this would work on iOS. Just saying "Siri, show me all pictures with my sister on and all her documents", or "Siri, show me all my historic documents regarding king charles iv", or "Siri, show me all psd files, which andrew sent to me".

For that sort of system to be effective, it would need to capture a level of subtlety that Siri can't even come close to yet. I have a hard enough time getting Siri to render my dictations correctly. Machines can organize files fine at a very high level. But at sub-sub-sub categories, they're just not intelligent enough yet. In the time I'd have to spend to get them to understand what exactly my requirements are, it'd be faster to just to organize everything myself.

The reason the current paradigm PC/Mac works is because it mirrors real life. When I pick up a photograph in real life, it displays immediately. Open a book and I see the words. A computer should work the same way. Click on a thumbnail of a picture, tap on my favorite book, etc. The key is to make the APPS disappear, not make them front and center. I HATE the fact that to view a Pages docs that relating to something for my business, I have to think about opening Pages first. Or to open a spreadsheet with the business's financial statements, I have to open Numbers first. It's more intuitive to go to a folder that holds all of my business's files and then open the file that I want to see, regardless of what app is used.

 

[AppleDApp]

For that sort of system to be effective, it would need to capture a level of subtlety that Siri can't even come close to yet. I have a hard enough time getting Siri to render my dictations correctly. Machines can organize files fine at a very high level. But at sub-sub-sub categories, they're just not intelligent enough yet. In the time I'd have to spend to get them to understand what exactly my requirements are, it'd be faster to just to organize everything myself.

The reason the current paradigm PC/Mac works is because it mirrors real life. When I pick up a photograph in real life, it displays immediately. Open a book and I see the words. A computer should work the same way. Click on a thumbnail of a picture, tap on my favorite book, etc. The key is to make the APPS disappear, not make them front and center. I HATE the fact that to view a Pages docs that relating to something for my business, I have to think about opening Pages first. Or to open a spreadsheet with the business's financial statements, I have to open Numbers first. It's more intuitive to go to a folder that holds all of my business's files and then open the file that I want to see, regardless of what app is used.

you could head to the search tab on the ipad and open from there. The challenge is opening multiple files at once. It could also be done differently on the mac side.

 

[anthonymoody]

But of course: Cases with keyboards, as the ZaggFolio and Logitech Ultrathin Keyboard, can be regarded as a very good solution to these problems, but then we are no longer talking about the strange and almost stubborn/fanatic notion of "iPad alone".

Nothing fanatical about it. You could also do what I do and touch type on the screen in landscape mode. I'm no faster or slower this way than with a hard keyboard. I gave up my keyboard dock almost immediately because it didn't make me any faster or more accurate typing. I flat out fly with the on screen keyboard in landscape. (Separate argument: using a given oeripheral with an iPad doesn't mean you're not using the iPad alone, at least not in my context. For me the term applies to using an iPad without, or instead of, a Mac or PC).

you could head to the search tab on the ipad and open from there. The challenge is opening multiple files at once. It could also be done differently on the mac side.

One challenge with this method is that often times file names are not very intuitive or clearly related to the topic they cover. Unless you're very disciplined with renaming files, I find that inevitably I wind up with things like scans, photos, or whatever that simply don't convey their contents via the file name. I use Dropbox and find it to be a pretty robust way of doing things, but would much prefer a proper in built file system.

 

[BiggAW]

Do I even want to know why or how you have that many files?

This is a mix of how I have so many files, and how I have that many GB of files.

Let's see. I'm a senior in college now. I have been doing stuff on the computer for school since 4th grade. I've had various digital cameras since July of 2001. I have over 6,000 songs in iTunes. I have many podcasts, audiobooks, and videos from the internet. I did quite a bit of video/TV production for several years in high school, shooting DV at 13GB/hour. I did design work for my high school's newspaper. I have multiple Virtual Machines in Parallels. The files are well organized across my boot drive (SSD, current stuff only), my storage drive (640GB, all pictures and documents), and my 2TB deep storage external drive, which has upwards of a TB, including several hundred GB of my video projects. All that is backed up to a 3TB external, and the more important stuff is also backed up to Blackblaze. Some of the large video projects and such are backed up to a 1TB drive that's in my dad's fireproof safe. And that's all not counting some torrented files that are on an old 1TB external, which are not backed up. That drive is slated for retirement in a month or two. My goal is to simplify my storage and backup systems as much as possible, and cut down to the minimum number of drives needed.

All of my files are organized in a hierarchical folder system, which is well organized chronologically (school year, year for photos, etc), as well as by topic, and sometimes by file format or program, depending on the situation. The last 65GB or so of files that aren't current properly organized will get organized in the next month and a half, they are old pictures that are currently broken up in CD and DVD sized chunks for backup, but now that's irrelevant, so they will be broken up by topic, year, and event. I am also going to organize my cell phone pics from the last couple of years that are currently a mess (i.e. not organized), and I will also be destroying my iPhone's camera (for work), so that will permanently be the end of that file (although I am getting an iPad and probably a Galaxy Nexus...).

I'm now getting more into photography, and I'm going to learn how to use Aperture, and I also want to get into some Android development and coding.

Video is also taking up more and more, and my photo storage is going to go way up, as I've been doing 720p with my little camera and now 1080p with the iPhone, and now my new Nikon D5100 shoots 1080p video and RAW (NEF) pictures, which are upwards of 22MB/frame when you count the NEF and JPG versions. I went on a day trip recently and without taking a huge number of pictures, generated 5GB of data. An iPad wouldn't even help me with photo storage, as my SD card is 32GB, double or the same as my whole iPad will be (depending on which one I get).

----------

I see Your point but why would You like to organize your files by yourself if machine can do exactly the same thing for you even better? Check out how content-aware, semantic search looks for example in Nepomuk and imagine how this would work on iOS. Just saying "Siri, show me all pictures with my sister on and all her documents", or "Siri, show me all my historic documents regarding king charles iv", or "Siri, show me all psd files, which andrew sent to me".

Yeah right. Searching 165,000 files across that mythical TB of storage, many of which an iPad can't open? It would take years to tag all the stuff, when my folder system works just fine. I can drill down to whatever I want in a matter of less than 30 seconds, even for really old/obscure stuff.

Also, my next storage step is to go to 1TB on my internal hard drive, gaining me another 360GB of local disk space. The 160GB SSD should be sufficient for a while...

 

[5630745]

Excellent thread. Spent the afternoon reading it. Valid points on both sides.

I've got a completely different opinion on it as someone who still doesn't own a computer. I EDC a GSM Galaxy Nexus and a Lumia 900 AND have a 4S as the spare backup. I bolt the GN to a Samsung 40 LED via MHL for torrents, YT and browsing and run the 900 for my DTD. I've toyed with grabbing the iPad and selling the iPhone and the GN but haven't made the switch yet. I'm waiting to see if the Note V2 drops and the specs on the SGS3 and the 5 for the fall. This rotation of Mobiles handles all of my needs. Anything heavier and I can walk to the Library.

That screen on the iPad is just so tempting though...

 

[itbeme]

Been following this thread - having just purchased an iPad - to be used primarily as a road warrior. I typically operate with a MBP.

Isn`t the question here kind of like "how deep is the ocean?". I mean it depends on where your boat is. There is no right answer. What can / cannot be done with an iPad vis-a-vis a "regular" computer has been beaten to death. For me the conclusion is, as much as I want to, I can`t function exclusively with the iPad. Close - and for short trips, yes. The file system thing - there are workarounds that I can deal with for a short time, but not ongoing.

It`s little things actually, like not being able to share your desktop / present in a Web conference. That and content creation and manipulation. I have made a list of the things I can`t do, or rather would be a major headache. It`s not a long list - but there are so,e deal breakers (I do heavy pro-audio work in Logic as well as monster spreadsheets with Pivot Tables on large monitor). That said, we are close. I intend to hit the road, henceforth with iPad only. The MBP stays at home.

Finally, this is about content consumption - which is much more important to Apple than content creation. Seen an update to the Mac Pro lately ?
Rgds

 

[Dinth1906]

Yeah right. Searching 165,000 files across that mythical TB of storage, many of which an iPad can't open? It would take years to tag all the stuff, when my folder system works just fine. I can drill down to whatever I want in a matter of less than 30 seconds, even for really old/obscure stuff.

Also, my next storage step is to go to 1TB on my internal hard drive, gaining me another 360GB of local disk space. The 160GB SSD should be sufficient for a while...

The whole idea about semantic search is that You will not need doing tagging manually.

----------

Yeah right. Searching 165,000 files across that mythical TB of storage, many of which an iPad can't open? It would take years to tag all the stuff, when my folder system works just fine. I can drill down to whatever I want in a matter of less than 30 seconds, even for really old/obscure stuff.

Also, my next storage step is to go to 1TB on my internal hard drive, gaining me another 360GB of local disk space. The 160GB SSD should be sufficient for a while...

The whole idea about semantic search is that You will not need doing tagging manually.

BTW excellent article about replacing MBA with iPad, unfortunatelly in Polish http://www.spidersweb.pl/2012/04/ipad-vs-macbook-air-116-czyli-co-lepsze-w-codziennej-pracy.html

 

[BiggAW]

The whole idea about semantic search is that You will not need doing tagging manually.

Huh? A computer will never know what the stuff is, beyond it's file type, name, and size. There's no data in a lot of my files to start with, so that would be a fail. That, and not having a complete list of what's there would make it impossible to find some things. Adding search on top of a hierarchical folder system can be very helpful, like Spotlight, but it will never replace the folders.

 

[Osarkon]

As of Tuesday I am now going iPad only.

So far I'm finding it manageable.

 

[plucky duck]

This is a mix of how I have so many files, and how I have that many GB of files.

Let's see. I'm a senior in college now. I have been doing stuff on the computer for school since 4th grade. I've had various digital cameras since July of 2001. I have over 6,000 songs in iTunes. I have many podcasts, audiobooks, and videos from the internet. I did quite a bit of video/TV production for several years in high school, shooting DV at 13GB/hour. I did design work for my high school's newspaper. I have multiple Virtual Machines in Parallels. The files are well organized across my boot drive (SSD, current stuff only), my storage drive (640GB, all pictures and documents), and my 2TB deep storage external drive, which has upwards of a TB, including several hundred GB of my video projects. All that is backed up to a 3TB external, and the more important stuff is also backed up to Blackblaze. Some of the large video projects and such are backed up to a 1TB drive that's in my dad's fireproof safe. And that's all not counting some torrented files that are on an old 1TB external, which are not backed up. That drive is slated for retirement in a month or two. My goal is to simplify my storage and backup systems as much as possible, and cut down to the minimum number of drives needed.

All of my files are organized in a hierarchical folder system, which is well organized chronologically (school year, year for photos, etc), as well as by topic, and sometimes by file format or program, depending on the situation. The last 65GB or so of files that aren't current properly organized will get organized in the next month and a half, they are old pictures that are currently broken up in CD and DVD sized chunks for backup, but now that's irrelevant, so they will be broken up by topic, year, and event. I am also going to organize my cell phone pics from the last couple of years that are currently a mess (i.e. not organized), and I will also be destroying my iPhone's camera (for work), so that will permanently be the end of that file (although I am getting an iPad and probably a Galaxy Nexus...).

I'm now getting more into photography, and I'm going to learn how to use Aperture, and I also want to get into some Android development and coding.

Video is also taking up more and more, and my photo storage is going to go way up, as I've been doing 720p with my little camera and now 1080p with the iPhone, and now my new Nikon D5100 shoots 1080p video and RAW (NEF) pictures, which are upwards of 22MB/frame when you count the NEF and JPG versions. I went on a day trip recently and without taking a huge number of pictures, generated 5GB of data. An iPad wouldn't even help me with photo storage, as my SD card is 32GB, double or the same as my whole iPad will be (depending on which one I get).

----------



Yeah right. Searching 165,000 files across that mythical TB of storage, many of which an iPad can't open? It would take years to tag all the stuff, when my folder system works just fine. I can drill down to whatever I want in a matter of less than 30 seconds, even for really old/obscure stuff.

Also, my next storage step is to go to 1TB on my internal hard drive, gaining me another 360GB of local disk space. The 160GB SSD should be sufficient for a while...

Hardcore videophiles and those dealing with photography would probably find a laptop a major sacrifice working on it at times, nevermind having to go without a manageable file system and gobs of storage options that can be accessed at a moments notice. iPad and the cloud nowhere begins to meet the needs of such users.

Imagine running photoshop and/or final cut on your iPad, lol

 

[SL4VE]

I'm all for this. But today I was applying for a new job to upload my CV on the new iPad Was very frustrating. Failed.

Also PDF files which are embedded in eBay sales which you can't read is also very frustrating

 

[0m3ga]

Imagine running photoshop and/or final cut on your iPad, lol

Have you looked at Photoshop Touch for the iPad? Obviously not as complex as the full version, but does a pretty damn good job, especially using a stylus. When I first used the program I was surprised at how much it could do.

 

[Insulin Junkie]

no way, ever. unless i can play most games available for windows on it, mod them and use programs like zbrush, sculptris, cs5, filter forge 3, slsk and dl off torrent sites, and plug a wacom tablet into it, ah and crack software too (yes, i do that a lot, bite me)... ah yes and have around 700 gigs of storage which is how full my current desktop hd is. looks like this wont be happening anytime soon. forgot about my game peripherals, those would all be useless too if i only used the ipad, of course. and about a hundred other reasons, including screen real estate why i'd never go ipad only. i also like windowblinds too much :,)

if i wasnt a "power user" though id seriously consider it.

 

[AppleDApp]

As of Tuesday I am now going iPad only.

So far I'm finding it manageable.

Keep us posted on how things are going. I use an iPad for all my mobile use.

I can't currently find a portablelaptop that can handle everything I do. I decided to go with the iMac + iPad setup. The ipad can cover most of everything I do on the go.

 

[unibility]

It's F R E E !!! Get over it !

 

[djrobsd]

The ipad just isn't practical for doing any serious work. For example, my company has a web site we go to fill out request to make a change to one of our systems. It's also the help desk ticketing system. The company who makes that web site has not optimized it on the ipad or iphone, so it just freezes up most of the time when I try to use it. Takes me 30 seconds to fill out the form on my mac, but on my ipad, takes about 5 minutes to painfully get through all the fields in the form.

Also, if your company uses a non-Cisco VPN, good luck getting VPN to work on the iPad.

What everyone else has already said, embedded pdf's just don't work, although some pds can be opened in ibooks if you sit and let the whole thing download.

There is so much else I could say here, but everyone has already said it... the ipad is my go to device for doing everything EXCEPT work. Once I have to do work - whether if be for my company or for my mobile DJ business, I have to fire up the Macbook pro.

 

[anthonymoody]

The ipad just isn't practical for doing any serious work. For example, my company has a web site we go to fill out request to make a change to one of our systems. It's also the help desk ticketing system. The company who makes that web site has not optimized it on the ipad or iphone, so it just freezes up most of the time when I try to use it. Takes me 30 seconds to fill out the form on my mac, but on my ipad, takes about 5 minutes to painfully get through all the fields in the form.

Also, if your company uses a non-Cisco VPN, good luck getting VPN to work on the iPad.

What everyone else has already said, embedded pdf's just don't work, although some pds can be opened in ibooks if you sit and let the whole thing download.

There is so much else I could say here, but everyone has already said it... the ipad is my go to device for doing everything EXCEPT work. Once I have to do work - whether if be for my company or for my mobile DJ business, I have to fire up the Macbook pro.

Except that your use case is not the norm. And seriously...waiting for PDFs to download?? If your work environment is as you describe it, yet your network speed makes waiting for PDFs to download a chore, then I don't know what to tell you.

Your use case: atypical.

 

[kazmac]

I agree with some stuff folks have said

More storage (and/or hard drive options, I don't trust the whole cloud thing), easier typing options (without buying another keyboard), and apps like Final Draft and Word would almost seal the deal.

I still burn and transfer a lot of obtuse movies and music from my iMac to my iPad. So I have a long way to go before I'm iPad only. I understand these probably will not be available for the iPad given Apple's iTunes, but I wish they were. I refuse to torrent so.

I tried the iPad for my schoolwork, but that Blackboard app sucks.

Even though it's not a computer substitute yet, I am enjoying my iPad quite a bit.

 

[astrorider]

The ipad just isn't practical for doing any serious work. For example, my company has a web site we go to fill out request to make a change to one of our systems. It's also the help desk ticketing system. The company who makes that web site has not optimized it on the ipad or iphone, so it just freezes up most of the time when I try to use it. Takes me 30 seconds to fill out the form on my mac, but on my ipad, takes about 5 minutes to painfully get through all the fields in the form.

Also, if your company uses a non-Cisco VPN, good luck getting VPN to work on the iPad.

What everyone else has already said, embedded pdf's just don't work, although some pds can be opened in ibooks if you sit and let the whole thing download.

I'm not sure I'd call filling out a form on a website, using a VPN, or accessing embedded PDFs as "serious work". However, by your own admission you can muddle through the 1st one, but even if you couldn't, it can't do serious work? For you and this specific case maybe. Back when my company used Active X for their intranet, I didn't feel the need to proclaim my Mac can't be used for serious work because it didn't have IE...more like another example that my company wasn't very forward thinking.

As for VPN, it looks like it's more than Cisco (http://support.apple.com/kb/HT1424), and embedded pdfs seem to work fine for me, but even if there are some that don't...are these things really so far from complete you can't see if being used for serious work by others? From the relatively minor things you've described, I'd think a 5.1.1 or 5.2 update might even make it work for you.