That would be the shell, yes. Like companies don't own Android, they build their own shell over it for their design purposes.
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Google Again Criticizes Apple for Not Adopting RCS for Messages App: 'Their Texting is Stuck in the 1990s'
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That could be an *argument* for a carrier to do it, but let’s be real here: this is no compelling business *purpose* to doing so from the carriers point of view.
Yes it would make certain annoyances that end-users experience better, but the carriers (*especially* in the US) run a cartel, so they don’t give a **** about user experience beyond voice or data getting there. It’s up to developers and phone OEMs to differentiate themselves, carriers have no reason to do this in the US (until Google eventually throws a bunch of money at them to do it, which is probably where this is headed in a few years).
Funny bizarro world scenario: Apple implements the most robust and secure RCS support infrastructure like Google has done, but route it all internally where Google can’t get the data (let’s be real, their business model is data collection. They have ways to analyze encrypted data that may not provide the details, but in aggregate still provides some useful trend analytics to package up and sell).
Which I had said way earlier. Carriers aren't looking to be the first to implement it across the whole service without some means of recouping cost and making money. So they don't. The only RCS being put forward is Google's shell.
Wouldn't make much difference if Apple implemented their own anymore than Google putting theirs forward. If it's not the same protocol, they won't communicate and we're right back here again. Carriers must implement a vanilla RCS protocol on their end first and then manufacturers can implement it in their OS's so that it works for everyone.
Not sure to be honest. I know the universal profile doesn't support end to end encryption since phone operators are required to keep records. I don't know what else differs though. To be clear though I don't think Apple should implement Google's version, just add RCS Universal Profile as a fallback when texting someone who doesn't have iMessage.
And? If those carriers drop SMS support, Apple will not have a choice. Until then, Apple isn't going to change from SMS until they are forced to.
My view on this is simple, until an actual compelling fallback technology becomes available and implemented, why should Apple bother?
If the most compatible version of RCS doesn’t include basic security like encryption, why should Apple lift a finger?
We know the state of the world infrastructure, standards get implemented and then STUCK in place for decades. SMS is now what, 25 years old? So why throw your hat behind a half baked protocol, when knowing that because there is NO incentive for carriers, that new standard will never get fully baked in the decades it will be around?
If the most compatible version of RCS doesn’t include basic security like encryption, why should Apple lift a finger?
We know the state of the world infrastructure, standards get implemented and then STUCK in place for decades. SMS is now what, 25 years old? So why throw your hat behind a half baked protocol, when knowing that because there is NO incentive for carriers, that new standard will never get fully baked in the decades it will be around?
And we have SMS fallback for messages. You are asking Apple to spend development budgets on fringe use cases that benefit a minority of users that improves the experience of Android users? Why should Apple care?
The problem with RCS Universal Profile is that no carrier is doing it. Only Google is running the RCS servers. How would it help you if Apple implemented the RCS Universal profile? You still cannot communicate with any users using RCS because your carrier does not have any RCS Servers.
The RCS discussed in this thread's article is implemented by Google. It is not available to all Android users. It is only available to certain Android handsets that your carrier (if your carrier partner with Google) supports. So how that that help you? Why should Apple bother with this mess?
Until and unless all carrier decides to implement RCS Universal Profile, iOS will never get RCS capabilities. And even then, it is not going to have end-to-end encryption, as this is Google hack over the RCS Universal Profile.
Nothing. Google's RCS servers are Universal Profile.
I'm not an RCS expert, but I have been using it for multiple years now and it works great. Here's what I understand:
- Universal Profile was announced back in 2016 and has been iterated on since then. RCS predates UP by a number of years, but Universal Profile is the most successful agreed-upon set of features.
- Jibe Mobile has been a player in the RCS space for a long time, and was acquired by Google in 2015. They provide a variety of RCS services such as service hosting for carriers. Their services implement Universal Profile.
- Google/Jibe worked with carriers for a number of years (and still do, I assume), to help speed along their RCS adoption.
- In late 2019, Google had had enough and side-stepped US carriers in a number of situations, sending users of its client directly to Jibe-hosted Universal Profile servers (I don't know for sure but I can only assume this was in response to carriers announcing their since-failed CCMI effort. And so began the new era of RCS usage on the Android side. I don't know what exactly Google did to add these carrier overrides, or where the overrides live (in Messages? in Android at the system level?), but overrides aren't universal. AT&T, for instance, hosts their own RCS servers and Messages uses those instead of Google's own Jibe instance.
- Since then, Google has made regular improvements to Messages, taking advantage of RCS features.
- RCS doesn't "support" E2E encryption. It doesn't even "support" message reactions. However, RCS supports arbitrary content being sent along with content types, much like email or http. RCS also supports something called "User Capability Exchange" or UCE, which lets one client query another client behind the scenes and ask what things it supports.
- Things like E2EE and message reactions are purely client-side and don't require any support from the servers. As long as all clients involved in a conversation agree on how to interpret the messages and/or metadata, the servers will happily transmit the data.
I really don't believe that Google intends to host all RCS traffic forever if carriers are willing to step up. But time will tell.
You are blaming Apple for Google's message app's in-ability to determine whether the end-point is Google RCS capable? Your Android device message apps should have fall back to SMS/MMS, like what Apple's Messages app does. Apple Messages app have no problem sending text, photo or video to Android devices via the standard carrier infrastructure, world-wide. Why can't Google's messages app do that same?
If I have my tin-foil hat on now, I would have thought that you are working for Google.
No, I am saying a significant number of carriers globally already support it.
For the ones that do not, I have no knowledge of their plans.
Then again, the latest information I was able to find was late 2021. I have not seen anything summarized for 2022.
Not true.
There is no universal that the carriers have adopted. That is one of the reasons Google did their version - many carriers had their own version; ie no standard version.
Hmm, no:
“What is the Universal Profile?
The GSMA’s Universal Profile is a single, industry-agreed set of features and technical enablers developed to simplify the product development and global operator deployment of RCS.”
Universal Profile
The GSMA’s Universal Profile is a single, industry-agreed set of features and technical enablers developed to simplify product development and deployment.
www.gsma.com
“T-Mobile and Google partner to enable T-Mobile customers with RCS UP [Universal Profie] 1.0 Android devices to get a RCS messaging experience while texting with Android users on other networks.”
RCS Advanced Messaging
Learn about T-Mobile and Google's partnership to enable T-Mobile customers with Rich Communication Services while texting Android users on other networks.
www.t-mobile.com
“The Advanced Messaging enhancements being introduced to Android smartphones adhere to RCS standards. AT&T has made a number of network updates to support Advanced Messaging. We continue to bring RCS to devices within our network, and provide RCS interconnectivity between major mobile carriers.”
Advanced Messaging Phones - AT&T
Advanced messaging lets you share your life like never before with higher quality photos & longer videos. Find phones that support advanced messaging at AT&T.
www.att.com
“The RCS standard has been building momentum across the globe with more than 444 million monthly active users in 60 countries according to GSMA. As networks continue to become interconnected, Android users in the U.S. will enjoy a better, more advanced messaging experience as they interact with each other and businesses on networks that support the RCS standard.”
Verizon and Google team up to bring enhanced messaging services to Android users
Verizon announced a collaboration with Google to expand advanced messaging services to Android users in the U.S. starting next year using Google’s Android Messages app.
Did you read the press releases?Hmm, no:
“What is the Universal Profile?
The GSMA’s Universal Profile is a single, industry-agreed set of features and technical enablers developed to simplify the product development and global operator deployment of RCS.”
Universal Profile
The GSMA’s Universal Profile is a single, industry-agreed set of features and technical enablers developed to simplify product development and deployment.
“T-Mobile and Google partner to enable T-Mobile customers with RCS UP [Universal Profie] 1.0 Android devices to get a RCS messaging experience while texting with Android users on other networks.”
RCS Advanced Messaging
Learn about T-Mobile and Google's partnership to enable T-Mobile customers with Rich Communication Services while texting Android users on other networks.www.t-mobile.com
“The Advanced Messaging enhancements being introduced to Android smartphones adhere to RCS standards. AT&T has made a number of network updates to support Advanced Messaging. We continue to bring RCS to devices within our network, and provide RCS interconnectivity between major mobile carriers.”
Advanced Messaging Phones - AT&T
Advanced messaging lets you share your life like never before with higher quality photos & longer videos. Find phones that support advanced messaging at AT&T.www.att.com
“The RCS standard has been building momentum across the globe with more than 444 million monthly active users in 60 countries according to GSMA. As networks continue to become interconnected, Android users in the U.S. will enjoy a better, more advanced messaging experience as they interact with each other and businesses on networks that support the RCS standard.”
Verizon and Google team up to bring enhanced messaging services to Android users
Verizon announced a collaboration with Google to expand advanced messaging services to Android users in the U.S. starting next year using Google’s Android Messages app.www.verizon.com
T Mobile says you have to have a compatible device (so not implemented universally)
AT&T states you need to have a device that supports it, and two asterisks later indicates devices on Android 12.
Verizon explicitly talks about preloading the Google Messages App and then calls out their own Verizon+ messaging app.
So in all 3 cases there are major caveats, or just simply “we’re doing it through google”.
Your own provided evidence defeats the very point you were trying to make.
Not in the least. Where did I mention device compatibility? Of course only compatible devices are supported? What would make you think otherwise? iPhones can’t do RCS, because, guess what, they aren’t compatible?
Google wrote the (Messaging) app. So what? That kind of makes sense doesn’t it, since they are also providing the operating system. Sorta like iOS and Messages.
I think you missed the entire point of my post which was solely:
These major carriers are using RCS Universal Profile 1.0, which is a standard, in response to a previous post.
Over time, if the standard isn’t abandoned, one might reasonably expect that all carrier’s Android phones would support it. We’re not there today, but I wasn’t even remotely talking about that aspect.
Again, if I have a group chat and one person is on Android, why should all of our pictures be in bad quality? Why can't apple simply just get RCS so at least pictures and video are in good quality?
"Kicking out" the person with Android is a hilariously bad solution to a problem that Apple created.
"Kicking out" the person with Android is a hilariously bad solution to a problem that Apple created.
Because the world-wide mobile service provider infrastructure is not ready for RCS?
Hmm, no:
“What is the Universal Profile?
The GSMA’s Universal Profile is a single, industry-agreed set of features and technical enablers developed to simplify the product development and global operator deployment of RCS.”
Universal Profile
The GSMA’s Universal Profile is a single, industry-agreed set of features and technical enablers developed to simplify product development and deployment.
“T-Mobile and Google partner to enable T-Mobile customers with RCS UP [Universal Profie] 1.0 Android devices to get a RCS messaging experience while texting with Android users on other networks.”
RCS Advanced Messaging
Learn about T-Mobile and Google's partnership to enable T-Mobile customers with Rich Communication Services while texting Android users on other networks.www.t-mobile.com
“The Advanced Messaging enhancements being introduced to Android smartphones adhere to RCS standards. AT&T has made a number of network updates to support Advanced Messaging. We continue to bring RCS to devices within our network, and provide RCS interconnectivity between major mobile carriers.”
Advanced Messaging Phones - AT&T
Advanced messaging lets you share your life like never before with higher quality photos & longer videos. Find phones that support advanced messaging at AT&T.www.att.com
“The RCS standard has been building momentum across the globe with more than 444 million monthly active users in 60 countries according to GSMA. As networks continue to become interconnected, Android users in the U.S. will enjoy a better, more advanced messaging experience as they interact with each other and businesses on networks that support the RCS standard.”
Verizon and Google team up to bring enhanced messaging services to Android users
Verizon announced a collaboration with Google to expand advanced messaging services to Android users in the U.S. starting next year using Google’s Android Messages app.
Yes and No. If I am understanding your point.
Universal Profile RCS is the core features in RCS. Google Messages is the current default RCS Messaging platform that is being adopted. It uses the Universal Profile feature set.
Everything you wanted to know about Google's RCS but were afraid to ask
www.androidpolice.com
And, as of 2022… 90 carriers in 60 countries. Actually, maybe not that, because…RCS Universal Profile is supported by many carriers. 90 carriers in 60 countries as of June, 2020
Global Launches
Launched by 52 operators in 38 countries, RCS is proving to be a truly global messaging platform. Discover which operators have already launched.
All North American carriers support it. That’s a lot.
South Korean telcos to shutter RCS Joyn
KT and LG Uplus announced that they will cease the rich communication service (RCS) program Joyn, with SK Telecom still to make a final decision.
www.zdnet.com
So, that list is, quite literally, “Operators who have launched RCS”… though they didn’t capture how many no longer support it! I’m sure that, as important as RCS is to the GSMA (it’s not) they’ll be updating their website for the first time in almost three years soon (they won’t).
And, as of 2022… 90 carriers in 60 countries. Actually, maybe not that, because…
so, the three carriers they list in South Korea, two no longer support RCS (double checked, SK Telecom, along with the other two, ended support in 2016.South Korean telcos to shutter RCS Joyn
KT and LG Uplus announced that they will cease the rich communication service (RCS) program Joyn, with SK Telecom still to make a final decision.
So, that list is, quite literally, “Operators who have launched RCS”… though they didn’t capture how many no longer support it! I’m sure that, as important as RCS is to the GSMA (it’s not) they’ll be updating their website for the first time in almost three years soon (they won’t).
Except no:
Jan 15, 2019
“Leading South Korean wireless carrier SK Telecom Co. has launched a next-generation communication service for latest Samsung Galaxy flagships. Called Rich Communication Services (RCS), the feature will be first available on the Galaxy S9 and S9+. More Galaxy devices, and other Android smartphones will get the feature in the future.”
SK Telecom launches RCS messaging for Samsung flagships
Leading South Korean wireless carrier SK Telecom Co. has launched a next-generation communication service for latest Samsung Galaxy flagships. Called Rich Communication Services (RCS), the feature will be first available on the Galaxy S9 and S9+.
www.sammobile.com
Which is exactly what the article is about. That's what I keep saying. Multiple times in the article it says RCS has end-to-end encryption, so it's referencing Google's RCS.
There seems to be more people working for Google and Samsung here than Apple fans.