Google Again Criticizes Apple for Not Adopting RCS for Messages App: 'Their Texting is Stuck in the 1990s'

[dk001]

Except no:

Jan 15, 2019
“Leading South Korean wireless carrier SK Telecom Co. has launched a next-generation communication service for latest Samsung Galaxy flagships. Called Rich Communication Services (RCS), the feature will be first available on the Galaxy S9 and S9+. More Galaxy devices, and other Android smartphones will get the feature in the future.”

SK Telecom launches RCS messaging for Samsung flagships

Leading South Korean wireless carrier SK Telecom Co. has launched a next-generation communication service for latest Samsung Galaxy flagships. Called Rich Communication Services (RCS), the feature will be first available on the Galaxy S9 and S9+.

www.sammobile.com

Is this talking about the carrier handling RCS or the Samsung devices? Sounds like the devices are capable.
In my family both the Note 10 and Z Flip 3 do RCS (ATT).

 

[Azathoth123]

Definitely not the same.

It’s hard to keep track of all of Google’s messaging products.

 

[strongy]

And? If those carriers drop SMS support, Apple will not have a choice. Until then, Apple isn't going to change from SMS until they are forced to.

the world is bigger than 2 networks, if they drop sms them networks will just find themselves on the end of litigation i expect

 

[strongy]

Not in the least. Where did I mention device compatibility? Of course only compatible devices are supported? What would make you think otherwise? iPhones can’t do RCS, because, guess what, they aren’t compatible?

Google wrote the (Messaging) app. So what? That kind of makes sense doesn’t it, since they are also providing the operating system. Sorta like iOS and Messages.

I think you missed the entire point of my post which was solely:

These major carriers are using RCS Universal Profile 1.0, which is a standard, in response to a previous post.

Over time, if the standard isn’t abandoned, one might reasonably expect that all carrier’s Android phones would support it. We’re not there today, but I wasn’t even remotely talking about that aspect.

these carriers are doing nothing, they are passing it off on google's servers thats what they are saying

 

[OneBar]

Not true.
There is no universal that the carriers have adopted. That is one of the reasons Google did their version - many carriers had their own version; ie no standard version.

That's literally what I'm saying. If I understand it correctly, there is a base vanilla version of RCS that carriers could all implement and have a universal protocol. None of them are doing it, though, because it costs money to do so and none of them want to be the first. The version that AT&T rolled out in February is just the Google shell and is limited to certain new phones and Google Messages capable phones. Until carriers agree upon a universal standard, it won't happen. Apple could implement Google's RCS shell but then, as I've said several times, Google then has more access to your data than Apple desires to allow.

 

[SactoGuy18]

Not true.
There is no universal that the carriers have adopted. That is one of the reasons Google did their version - many carriers had their own version; ie no standard version.

That's the reason why worldwide, people don't use Apple iMessage or Google RCS, but instead third-party messaging apps like LINE, WhatsApp and WeChat. All three work on both Android and iOS with pretty much the same functionality, too.

 

[Wizec]

these carriers are doing nothing, they are passing it off on google's servers thats what they are saying

I don’t know all the inner details of what the carriers needed to do to support this. T-Mobile’s page mentioned Universal Profile 1.0 support. At first glance it just sounded like Google’s messages app just was the front end.

From the available information, it may be reasonable to think that Google is also providing key infrastructure support, which would be different than how I understand SMS which I believe is phone to carrier(s) to phone.

 

[BigMcGuire]

I realize it's probably been said in the last 29 pages but figured I'd add my voice...

iMessage is a HUGE REASON why I use Apple devices. I iMessage for work and most of my family has iPhones. Being able to text from ANY DEVICE anywhere is MASSIVE. And I've used Google Voice, Hangouts, WhatsApp, etc. Call iMessages ancient but it's up there in the top 5 reasons why I use Apple products.

I'm a bit older now and there's no way I would ever rely on any Google product or service again. After getting burned dozens of times they will never get me to rely on anything they provide.


Thoughts on iMessage
I can send/receive gigabyte files to my wife. Photos in iMessage get added to my photo album automatically with great accuracy from family chats. Sending screenshots and media (pdfs, etc) is super easy. It's synced between my watch, phone, and 2 MacBooks. I can deal with SMS / MMS on it (carrier texting) with those who don't have iPhones. It's always been near instant. I really like iMessage. I use it constantly throughout the day for personal/work.

 

[jvolkman]

That's literally what I'm saying. If I understand it correctly, there is a base vanilla version of RCS that carriers could all implement and have a universal protocol. None of them are doing it, though, because it costs money to do so and none of them want to be the first. The version that AT&T rolled out in February is just the Google shell and is limited to certain new phones and Google Messages capable phones. Until carriers agree upon a universal standard, it won't happen. Apple could implement Google's RCS shell but then, as I've said several times, Google then has more access to your data than Apple desires to allow.

Google's customizations are client-side (which is something allowed by RCS). The servers are just Universal Profile.

 

[dk001]

That's literally what I'm saying. If I understand it correctly, there is a base vanilla version of RCS that carriers could all implement and have a universal protocol. None of them are doing it, though, because it costs money to do so and none of them want to be the first. The version that AT&T rolled out in February is just the Google shell and is limited to certain new phones and Google Messages capable phones. Until carriers agree upon a universal standard, it won't happen. Apple could implement Google's RCS shell but then, as I've said several times, Google then has more access to your data than Apple desires to allow.

I’ll have to look at that.
Universal is a set of protocols that define RCS. I’m not sure if there is a vanilla version of RCS that has been implemented or even exists. More like the RCS protocols are built into a messaging service.

Good point.

 

[dk001]

I realize it's probably been said in the last 29 pages but figured I'd add my voice...

iMessage is a HUGE REASON why I use Apple devices. I iMessage for work and most of my family has iPhones. Being able to text from ANY DEVICE anywhere is MASSIVE. And I've used Google Voice, Hangouts, WhatsApp, etc. Call iMessages ancient but it's up there in the top 5 reasons why I use Apple products.

I'm a bit older now and there's no way I would ever rely on any Google product or service again. After getting burned dozens of times they will never get me to rely on anything they provide.


Thoughts on iMessage
I can send/receive gigabyte files to my wife. Photos in iMessage get added to my photo album automatically with great accuracy from family chats. Sending screenshots and media (pdfs, etc) is super easy. It's synced between my watch, phone, and 2 MacBooks. I can deal with SMS / MMS on it (carrier texting) with those who don't have iPhones. It's always been near instant. I really like iMessage. I use it constantly throughout the day for personal/work.

Great point if you and your textors are all on Apple.
If not …

btw - my employer doesn’t allow iMessage for work. Has to do with how Apple handles saved messages. Backup to iCloud for messages is disabled (MDM).

 

[OneBar]

I’ll have to look at that.
Universal is a set of protocols that define RCS. I’m not sure if there is a vanilla version of RCS that has been implemented or even exists. More like the RCS protocols are built into a messaging service.

Good point.

Ok, yes, the vanilla version would be Universal Profile. If all carriers implemented UP, then it could just be turned on in OS-level messaging and everyone would be fine. However, TMobile and AT&T reneged on the original US 4 carrier messaging initiative and signed up to use Google's version exclusively and Apple said nah about implementing their specific shell.

So once again it is the carriers and not Apple screwing the whole situation over.

 

[BigMcGuire]

Great point if you and your textors are all on Apple.
If not …

btw - my employer doesn’t allow iMessage for work. Has to do with how Apple handles saved messages. Backup to iCloud for messages is disabled (MDM).

But but, even Android users I text, all that SMS is synced between all my devices - I'm in several group texts with Android users too - and I can send/receive texts from them on my watch, phone, and 2 MacBooks. So imo that's a great feature of iMessage too is - cellular texting from your Apple devices.
One of the loved features of iMessage I have is, if I'm in safari and I have 2FA (sms) turned on, it gets to my iPhone or Mac and automatically puts it in the box and I can click next right away. (SMS).

Just wanted to point out there are some SMS (non-Apple) features of iMessage that are really great. But for the most part, yeah, iMessage works best with other Apple iMessage users.

My work is very pro iMessage lol. But our official means of communication is Microsoft Teams.

 

[Unregistered 4U]

Except no:

Jan 15, 2019
“Leading South Korean wireless carrier SK Telecom Co. has launched a next-generation communication service for latest Samsung Galaxy flagships. Called Rich Communication Services (RCS), the feature will be first available on the Galaxy S9 and S9+. More Galaxy devices, and other Android smartphones will get the feature in the future.”

SK Telecom launches RCS messaging for Samsung flagships

Leading South Korean wireless carrier SK Telecom Co. has launched a next-generation communication service for latest Samsung Galaxy flagships. Called Rich Communication Services (RCS), the feature will be first available on the Galaxy S9 and S9+.

www.sammobile.com

No, it’s still true they all ended support in 2016. SK Telecom then re-started in 2019. Just the fact that that page is inaccurate and will see no further updates from GSMA ever is all anyone needs to know about the future prospects of RCS.

 

[M3gatron]

Google will keep updating a messaging app for a five year old Android phone? I doubt it.

You doubt it based on what exactly?

 

[NT1440]

You doubt it based on what exactly?

A *basic* awareness of Google’s history?

Killed by Google

Killed by Google is the open source list of dead Google products, services, and devices. It serves as a tribute and memorial of beloved services and products killed by Google.

killedbygoogle.com

 

[M3gatron]

A *basic* awareness of Google’s history?

Killed by Google

Killed by Google is the open source list of dead Google products, services, and devices. It serves as a tribute and memorial of beloved services and products killed by Google.

killedbygoogle.com

Nonsense. What about THE FACT that Google Messages is currently compatible with phones up to 7 years old?
Google Messages is compatible with Android 8 and up. That's 6 Android versions. The notion that Google Messages won't be updated on 5 year old phones is factually incorrect.

 

[dk001]

But but, even Android users I text, all that SMS is synced between all my devices - I'm in several group texts with Android users too - and I can send/receive texts from them on my watch, phone, and 2 MacBooks. So imo that's a great feature of iMessage too is - cellular texting from your Apple devices.
One of the loved features of iMessage I have is, if I'm in safari and I have 2FA (sms) turned on, it gets to my iPhone or Mac and automatically puts it in the box and I can click next right away. (SMS).

Just wanted to point out there are some SMS (non-Apple) features of iMessage that are really great. But for the most part, yeah, iMessage works best with other Apple iMessage users.

My work is very pro iMessage lol. But our official means of communication is Microsoft Teams.

Teams here too.

When it comes to MMS and for some groups, things start to go awry. If you use RCS at all, forget it.
iMessage is great except when it isn't. End of day we rely on Teams for work, and mostly use Telegram and Signal for other.

I use an iPhone for work and Android for personal. That could change though as recently work apps on the Android side have really evolved - every bit as good as the iPhone side. Finally.

 

[bozzykid]

the world is bigger than 2 networks, if they drop sms them networks will just find themselves on the end of litigation i expect

Providers will drop support for sms for rcs at some point. It is inevitable. The question is just a matter of how long it will take. It could be a few years or it could be 10 years. Litigation will not work in the US. They've already been killing off things like 2g, etc without much fanfare.

 

[Azathoth123]

iMessage security in iCloud has been mentioned in this thread vs other third party apps. This article should be of interest.

Apple Announces End-to-End Encryption Option for iCloud Photos, Notes, Backups, and More

Apple today announced it is expanding end-to-end encryption to many additional iCloud data categories on an opt-in basis for enhanced security. ...

www.macrumors.com

 

[NT1440]

Providers will drop support for sms for rcs at some point. It is inevitable. The question is just a matter of how long it will take. It could be a few years or it could be 10 years. Litigation will not work in the US. They've already been killing off things like 2g, etc without much fanfare.

What makes it inevitable? Their capital costs have already been recouped for SMS (because it’s so old). What onus is on the carrier to drop more capital expenditures on something that doesn’t benefit them at all? De facto monopolies don’t just invest without a return, so what incentive do each of these companies have to move from SMS?

They’re in a pretty sweet position, SMS is completely paid for, and if the world wants to move on from carrier based solutions to apps they’re more than happy to provide the data connection as they’re already charging you for it.

So unless governing bodies mandate it (which of course will be a 10+ year deadline, that then gets delayed repeatedly) why is it inevitable?

If it was free to implement at the infrastructure point, I might agree with you, but there are costs to implement so why should they care when companies like Google are seemingly desperate to just pay out of their own pockets and form a partnership instead?

 

[bozzykid]

What makes it inevitable?

Because they will find a way to extract money from businesses using RCS. Once they figure out how to monetize rcs, it will suddenly be a priority.

 

[lartola]

But but, even Android users I text, all that SMS is synced between all my devices - I'm in several group texts with Android users too - and I can send/receive texts from them on my watch, phone, and 2 MacBooks.

You can’t share HQ photos and videos, react to messages, reply directly to messages, send audio messages, use emoji or send GIFs with Android users when you message them from imessage. SMS lacks all those features and more, but you consistently ignore that fact.

 

[quarkysg]

You can’t share HQ photos and videos, react to messages, reply directly to messages, send audio messages, use emoji or send GIFs with Android users when you message them from imessage. SMS lacks all those features and more, but you consistently ignore that fact.

I would say that similarly you consistently ignore that fact that as it stands today, RCS is not implemented by any carriers at all. I would think almost all carriers that claims to support RCS basically just uses Google RCS, which is proprietary, unlike SMS/MMS which is globally supported by (almost?) ALL carriers. Until and unless RCS is adopted globally by ALL carriers using the standards published by GSMA, Apple will be very unlikely implement RCS for it's products. IMHO, this will continue on as is, and SMS/MMS will be the default for carriers for the foreseeable future.

All Google need to do is to develop and release a RCS app for iOS and Macs. Wonder why this is not done ... hmm ...

It is unreasonable to push Apple to develop for a solution that favour only one vendor when it does not benefit Apple at all. This is the cruel facts of being a for-profit business.

And again, I would like to point out that they are already a multitude of third party solutions that the entire world is using to conveniently communicated between iOS and Android users. Being stubborn and not willing to use it, well, the onus will be on the user then, not Apple. If the sending of audio messages, GIFs, or whatever is deemed important enough, wouldn't it warrant the effort to have your group try out one of those third party solutions? If the effort is deemed not justified, maybe text messages will be enough?

Edit: It would seem too that as it stands today, you also could not send RCS messages to ALL Android devices. Only select few models of phones that has been blessed by carriers to "support" RCS, which is just Google RCS. How does that solve your "problem"?

 

[Unregistered 4U]

Providers will drop support for sms for rcs at some point. It is inevitable. The question is just a matter of how long it will take. It could be a few years or it could be 10 years. Litigation will not work in the US. They've already been killing off things like 2g, etc without much fanfare.

Not likely RCS. Maybe some other, more well thought out technology, but SMS is safe as long as businesses depend on it to send notifications and 2FA codes to customers and as long as there’s still over 100 million feature phones a year (that don’t do RCS) being sold. There’s not a network on the planet that wants to intentionally deactivate 20% of their userbase (not to mention miss out on the 2 trillion messages businesses send every year).