Yes, and I think that's one of the points people have been trying to make about Apple. It's not so much about Apple wanting to push a more privacy-friendly experience, it's about the money and using (in this case) their Safari user base to make money off of Google’s tracking activities. In that sense, "users are the product” with Apple too.
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Google Allegedly Pays Apple Portion of Chrome Search Revenue as Part of Secretive Non-Compete Deal
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Yes, and I think that's one of the points people have been trying to make about Apple. It's not so much about Apple wanting to push a more privacy-friendly experience, it's about the money and using (in this case) their Safari user base to make money off of Google’s tracking activities. In that sense, "users are the product” with Apple too.
It's not really about whether DuckDuckGo is a comparable search engine (as some have noted, users can change the default), it's about Apple making a bold statement against Google's privacy and search activities by NOT making Google search the default and instead choosing a more privacy-friendly option like DDG and thereby giving them (or someone similar) more attention, publicity, traffic, etc.
I was just using them as an example of a more privacy-focused option but realize they’re not perfect either.
ridiculously over stated and convoluted. Google has always paid to get to be default search engine (and saving people from bing?). the rest is fantasy. they are not afraid of apple beating them at searching. and i don't think apple has half of every search in the world -- just can't be.
Not a business deal, an illegal secret deal that curbs the normal game of competition and innovation.Another stupid waste of time. Breaking news. Two businesses have a business deal that benefits both.
Remember when Google first started up and their motto was, "Do no evil,"?
Where did that go?
This sort of thing should not be allowed. Intel has paid Microsoft lots of money over the years for favors as well and would be suprised if Microsoft did not get a hefty quid pro quo (if not outright lots-o money) for the Windows 11 install requirements (which forced hardware upgrades on people for official Win 11 support, including the last Intel Macs, as that all happened as the PC sales curve from Covid was ramping down).
That being said, I'd consider Google in a better place on the "just screw over the customer" spectrum compared to Facebook / Meta and Microsoft - and Microsoft deserves a special mention as the customer pays them for the OS to begin with, before they data mine you, lol.
I believe I remember an article detailing how that statement was gradually filtered out of their policies / documentation over time.
That being said, I'd consider Google in a better place on the "just screw over the customer" spectrum compared to Facebook / Meta and Microsoft - and Microsoft deserves a special mention as the customer pays them for the OS to begin with, before they data mine you, lol.
swingerofbirch
macrumors 68040
Googled was worried *Apple* would be able to make a competent search engine?
When I "worked" for Apple doing AppleCare (worked is in scare quotes because I was contracted so Apple could avoid labor laws, as Apple does), we used Google to search Apple's KBase (support.apple.com) because Apple's internal search tool was so bad.
Has Apple given any hint they are good at AI or search?
The most impressive demos of Siri were at its launch. Nothing of any significance has happened since.
I can't even use command-F in the Apple News app to find a word.
When I "worked" for Apple doing AppleCare (worked is in scare quotes because I was contracted so Apple could avoid labor laws, as Apple does), we used Google to search Apple's KBase (support.apple.com) because Apple's internal search tool was so bad.
Has Apple given any hint they are good at AI or search?
The most impressive demos of Siri were at its launch. Nothing of any significance has happened since.
I can't even use command-F in the Apple News app to find a word.
Well, Google stopped using that phrase quite some time ago. Whereas Apple's Mr. Cook continues to blow hot air about values, fundamental human rights, privacy, helping the world be a better place.
because they know if they switched search engines, people would be switching back to google without the billions
i dontthink you understand how capitalism works. its not whether they can. its just to stop them form trying. once apple opens its mouth. google will lose market share just on people hearing apple is working on a search engine to compete with gogle.
It’a a fair discussion. So many here including you tout apple for their privacy efforts. Yet it’s clearly not the case here as it’s about the money.Another stupid waste of time. Breaking news. Two businesses have a business deal that benefits both.
Apple had the optics of caring about you. Guess what? They don’t.
Yes, of course they are. Perhaps in different ways than Google. I'm not trying to excuse or make light of the advertising economy used by companies like Google, et al, but I do take issue with Apple's smarmy marketing apparently holding such sway over its users.
By all means, use Apple products, or use Google products, or use third party products. Everyone should make choices that weigh practical benefits against what's important to you. But the incessant need for everyone to broadcast their choices as if the company they support is somehow tied to virtue or a single "correct" way of doing business is juvenile nonsense and the result of accepting marketing—by its very design a bunch of carefully-crafted lies—as a truism. Apple, like Google, like the mom and pop store down the street, will make whatever decisions it needs to to maximize its returns. Regardless of marketing, regardless of anything. To do otherwise is to fail as a business.
Microsoft spent over ten years developing Bing into a viable search engine and it still only has a tiny share of the search engine market (about 3% overall and about 6-9% of desktop browser searches). It took six years for Bing to even earn a profit. I can't imagine Apple would want to go down that route, especially since search engines by their very nature rely on tracking user data and targeting ads, all things Apple at least claims to be against. Well, they're against other people doing it at least.
I don’t think you understand how business works. If apple makes a search engine then (1) they can’t make money from it because their entire public image is not selling your data yet search engine can only make money from ads using your data. (2) they can’t set default otherwise the same government agency will call that anticompetitive and sue apple for as well.
When Apple takes billions from Alphabet to make Google the default, it shows Apple cares more about $ than user privacy. If Apple really cared about privacy, then Apple would have no default and then have the user pick one from an alphabetically ordered list during device setup or when launching Safari for the 1st time.
Apple’s Tim Cook takes a swipe at Google, Facebook
The CEO of Apple appeared rather critical of some of the tech giant's rivals when he unveiled a new privacy policy in an open letter to customers.
Tim Cool: “A few years ago, users of internet services began to realize that when an online service is free, you’re not the customer. You’re the product. But at Apple, we believe a great customer experience shouldn’t come at the expense of your privacy.”
Apple CEO Tim Cook Slams Tech Rivals Over Data Collection
Cook criticized companies for business models based on the collection of personal data
Tim Cook: “We shouldn’t sugarcoat the consequences. This is surveillance and these stockpiles of data serve only to make rich the companies that collect them. This should make us uncomfortable. We at Apple believe that privacy is a fundamental human right but also recognize that not everyone sees it that way. The desire to put profits over privacy is nothing new.”
Hypocrite
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They are not perfect, but much better than the direct competition in most of these areas. So it is more than hot air.
But many of these goals often compete with "business interests" or even laws, which makes them harder to accomplish. But as usual, it is better than not doing anything.
...through an illegal division of the market that hurts consumers.Another stupid waste of time. Breaking news. Two businesses have a business deal that benefits both.
There you go! Your summary was severely lacking.
Good post, but I'd cite an even closer to home example:
Apple Maps.
Is it (after many years and untold billions of dollars) a reasonable alternative to Google Maps in terms of data and feature completeness? Sure, depending on where you live/use it. By some accounts, more people still use Google Maps on iOS than Apple Maps, out of choice or perhaps just inertia. But now that Apple has started selling advertising in Maps to the highest bidder, we see the real reason why it wanted to control that data in the first place: Money.
Apple will continue to take Google's $15B payment until at such point it decides it can make some amount > $15B by rolling its own seach, and not a day sooner.
Privacy, users, and other message board feel-good-isms has absolutely nothing to do with it.
I know plenty of iPhone users who have trouble even just using the phone. They aren’t the most tech literate. Most of them don’t even know other search engines exist. They just want to use their phone. The bare minimum of presenting a list is great for tech literate people, others will have no idea what they are looking at and the names on the list.
Apple is a corporation been following them and investing since they announced an iPod. Of course they care about $$ over privacy. They wouldn’t be worth so much otherwise.
I will be launching my search engine "Aaaaaaardvark" the moment Apple is forced to go this route.
You’re absolutely right! Google Maps was the default Map App bundled with the iPhone for many years until Apple developed and replaced it with Apple Maps. Until they can figure out a way to extract same or more $$$ from search it will stay the same.